EPT[MSL] QuarterFinals Day 3 - Page 73
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Frits
11782 Posts
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On August 05 2009 06:36 Hot_Bid wrote: player (osl/msl) 1.0 - Nada 3/3 2.0 - iloveoov 2/3 2.5 - Savior 1/3 3.0 - July 3/0 3.0 - Jaedong 2/1 3.5 - Bisu 0/3 3.5 - Boxer 2/0 I've wondered about this for a while: Considering the above info, do you think if JD won the OSL he should be called bonjwa? Let it be known that this is not Jaedong fanboy hopes. It is based solely upon previous bonjwas and the professed glory of the Ongamenet Starleague. Your thoughts? | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
On August 05 2009 06:33 thopol wrote: Well I'm here to tell you something about LB. I've been in the top 10 a few times this past round of LB. Second for a while, hovering around fifth for longer. Point is, some people know a bit about how to consider LB and others do not. Bets have 3 things that you need to consider. 1) Who you think will win. This is obvious as it is the purpose of liquibet. The thing is, many people's perception of it ends here and that is a shallow view of the situation. 2) Who you hope will win. I love the competition and skill involved with liquibetting. That said, when it comes down to it, I will not bet against a player or team I really want. Rooting for players and teams is what sports, ESPORTS included, are all about. If liquibet disemboweled this facet of my enjoyment of starcraft for me I wouldn't participate. Bet with your brain, but if you don't bet with your guts you'll end up sad anyways. 3) Who other people think will win. This is the most important. If it's Bisu vs Iris everyone knows the graph will look like that. If you bet Bisu, you have little to lose and little to gain because everyone is doing the same thing. If you bet against the favorite you have a chance to increase your ranking but you also are liable to drop a long ways (this from experience ofc). The other option is voting with what you assume the crowd's vote to be. This is the way to gain on noobs, but not the way to gain on your pro peers. Thus, you must vote with who the favorite is most of the time and vote against the favorite only when both you think you are in the minority doing so and the underdog has a decent shot. Point is being a "doubter" is the way to gain points on the people who only follow my rule 1. I'm sure you didn't take the issue as seriously as I did, but I hope to have indicated why people voted as they did. I also hope I helped some people with LB for next season. Cheers.  Woah woah woah. I just wanted to post that graph to show Iris is not to be messed with. I do really appreciate the effort you put into your post, and I'm sure it will help a lot of the serious liquibetters out there =D I only liquibet for fun and only vote CJ and Oz all the time, and never vote for Khan. Hah. But ya, excellent post! | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On August 05 2009 06:44 sashkata wrote: Sry, but who is playing whom? Talking about the semis. Iris vs Pikachu and JD vs Clam | ||
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Pads
England3228 Posts
the sound of aa Iris Jaedong final is just wayy too attractive. Iris for 2 golds!! | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On August 05 2009 06:41 Frits wrote: flash is very young and only been in the scene for a pretty short time, not really a fair comparison Er, it is since he's considering Flash's career as of right now. Not potential or anything. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 05 2009 06:42 thopol wrote: I've wondered about this for a while: Considering the above info, do you think if JD won the OSL he should be called bonjwa? Let it be known that this is not Jaedong fanboy hopes. It is based solely upon previous bonjwas and the professed glory of the Ongamenet Starleague. Your thoughts? Probably not unless he potentially wins both leagues, wins the proleague, or does some other feat of complete dominance. Being a Bonjwa isn't just about amassing titles over the years, it's more about showing complete and utter dominance over everyone else for a good stretch of time. This is why only 4 of those 7 are Bonjwas. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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oatboy
United States198 Posts
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B1nary
Canada1267 Posts
On August 05 2009 06:52 oatboy wrote: IMO if Jaedong manages to win both SLs he'll have demonstrated dominance about equal to savior, considering things like titles won, ELO dominance and sheer scariness in important matches. He's maybe not quite as dominant in ZvT, where you really never thought there was any chance savior was going to lose ever. Even if he does, can you honestly say with 100% certainty that he's the favourite in a series against Bisu? There's no doubt that Jaedong's very very good, but he still looks mortal. When Savior was bonjwa, there was no doubt that he would win, regardless of opponent or map. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On August 05 2009 07:06 B1nary wrote: Even if he does, can you honestly say with 100% certainty that he's the favourite in a series against Bisu? There's no doubt that Jaedong's very very good, but he still looks mortal. When Savior was bonjwa, there was no doubt that he would win, regardless of opponent or map. Except against the terrans, ofc. Lots of doubt vs Midas, Hwasin, and Iris. Oh, and that loss to Chojja too. And all those flukey losses in the OSL prelims. | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On August 05 2009 07:06 B1nary wrote: Even if he does, can you honestly say with 100% certainty that he's the favourite in a series against Bisu? There's no doubt that Jaedong's very very good, but he still looks mortal. When Savior was bonjwa, there was no doubt that he would win, regardless of opponent or map. Uh... He's favorite against Bisu. That's not really in the realm of speculation, It's fact. Bisu is nowhere close to his level of achievement. Nor is he as powerfully a contender in starleagues as Jaedong is. He is an excellent player in the proleague, nobody can deny that. He is also an great player in individual leagues, but one must only TLPD each of their names to discover who is the favorite in a hypothetical series. EDIT: Not to mention, vP is JD's self-admitted weakest MU. Also, in retrospect this is a post that is kinda baiting some flames, so please hit me up in PM instead of throwing this thread more off topic than I already have made it. | ||
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
On August 05 2009 07:11 Avidkeystamper wrote: Except against the terrans, ofc. Lots of doubt vs Midas, Hwasin, and Iris. Oh, and that loss to Chojja too. And all those flukey losses in the OSL prelims. People always make Savior out to be Jesus. Yes he was a bonjwa, but that doesn't mean people never beat him... That's just the nature of starcraft. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
It's still pointless to discuss this until the SLs conclude. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
On August 05 2009 06:48 Avidkeystamper wrote: Er, it is since he's considering Flash's career as of right now. Not potential or anything. Meh. Career Age is more important that chronological age anyways. And flash has been around as long as Jaedong and Bisu have. | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
He really deserves a title after that sAviOr shinhan semifinal and Daum loss. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On August 05 2009 07:30 Warrior Madness wrote: Meh. Career Age is more important that chronological age anyways. And flash has been around as long as Jaedong and Bisu have. lol, what!? What can one say after reading sucha ridiculous statement. Jaedong has been longer in the pro-scene by a year or so, Bisu even longer. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36401 Posts
On August 05 2009 06:42 thopol wrote: I've wondered about this for a while: Considering the above info, do you think if JD won the OSL he should be called bonjwa? Let it be known that this is not Jaedong fanboy hopes. It is based solely upon previous bonjwas and the professed glory of the Ongamenet Starleague. Your thoughts? if Jaedong wins the OSL he will move up in everyone's eyes for sure. i think he passes Savior in lifetime accomplishments if he gets one more individual league win. but bonjwa means someone who is extremely dominant for a period of time, and to be called that Jaedong needs to win both leagues. then he really is a bonjwa, especially with this ridiculous practice schedule and proleague to occupy his time as well. but lets not speak too soon, no titles are guaranteed until it happens. tbh i think fantasy beats jaedong in the OSL  | ||
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