On July 23 2009 18:46 Highways wrote: This game showing what a massive advantage Terran has against Zerg.
Jaedong has like 8 drones left. Wraith is out.
Terran >>>>> Zerg
Seriously i agree. 1 fragile unit shouldn't be untouchable by other units (lings) with just micro and win a person the game if that unit goes into the main.
On July 23 2009 18:52 Highways wrote: Seriously bunker rushing has close to zero risk for Terran, but Zerg can lose a game from it.
Canata is now my most hated player, got the gayest style ever.
Zero risk to let the terran behind? are you kidding?
No, its true. Think about it, a fake bunker rush with canceling a bunker costs Terran 25 minerals. A Zerg reacting to a fake bunker rush will pull at least 6 to 8 drones (each drone mines 8 mineral so thats at least 48 minerals lost just to pull drones)
Not only that, but Zerg will be distracted and late on timing.
On July 23 2009 18:46 Highways wrote: This game showing what a massive advantage Terran has against Zerg.
Jaedong has like 8 drones left. Wraith is out.
Terran >>>>> Zerg
Seriously i agree. 1 fragile unit shouldn't be untouchable by other units (lings) with just micro and win a person the game if that unit goes into the main.
On July 23 2009 18:52 Highways wrote: Seriously bunker rushing has close to zero risk for Terran, but Zerg can lose a game from it.
Canata is now my most hated player, got the gayest style ever.
Zero risk to let the terran behind? are you kidding?
No, its true. Think about it, a fake bunker rush with canceling a bunker costs Terran 25 minerals. A Zerg reacting to a fake bunker rush will pull at least 6 to 8 drones (each drone mines 8 mineral so thats at least 48 minerals lost just to pull drones)
Not only that, but Zerg will be distracted and late on timing.
Yes. Overall sc needs heavily z favored maps all the time just to counter the natural advantages. This season is near perfect in this regard.
On July 23 2009 18:46 Highways wrote: This game showing what a massive advantage Terran has against Zerg.
Jaedong has like 8 drones left. Wraith is out.
Terran >>>>> Zerg
Seriously i agree. 1 fragile unit shouldn't be untouchable by other units (lings) with just micro and win a person the game if that unit goes into the main.
On July 23 2009 18:52 Highways wrote: Seriously bunker rushing has close to zero risk for Terran, but Zerg can lose a game from it.
Canata is now my most hated player, got the gayest style ever.
Zero risk to let the terran behind? are you kidding?
No, its true. Think about it, a fake bunker rush with canceling a bunker costs Terran 25 minerals. A Zerg reacting to a fake bunker rush will pull at least 6 to 8 drones (each drone mines 8 mineral so thats at least 48 minerals lost just to pull drones)
Not only that, but Zerg will be distracted and late on timing.
You're completely ignoring the fact that 8 raxing hinders the Terrans economy significantly and that 3-4 SCVs usually need to be sent along for a bunker rush to succeed. :O
And as for the single vult getting in the base, it's really quite easy to stop that from happening...
On July 23 2009 18:46 Highways wrote: This game showing what a massive advantage Terran has against Zerg.
Jaedong has like 8 drones left. Wraith is out.
Terran >>>>> Zerg
Seriously i agree. 1 fragile unit shouldn't be untouchable by other units (lings) with just micro and win a person the game if that unit goes into the main.
On July 23 2009 18:55 geod wrote:
On July 23 2009 18:52 Highways wrote: Seriously bunker rushing has close to zero risk for Terran, but Zerg can lose a game from it.
Canata is now my most hated player, got the gayest style ever.
Zero risk to let the terran behind? are you kidding?
No, its true. Think about it, a fake bunker rush with canceling a bunker costs Terran 25 minerals. A Zerg reacting to a fake bunker rush will pull at least 6 to 8 drones (each drone mines 8 mineral so thats at least 48 minerals lost just to pull drones)
Not only that, but Zerg will be distracted and late on timing.
You're completely ignoring the fact that 8 raxing hinders the Terrans economy significantly and that 3-4 SCVs usually need to be sent along for a bunker rush to succeed. :O
And as for the single vult getting in the base, it's really quite easy to stop that from happening...
8 rax does not hinder T economy as much as Zerg cheese = early ling production. A failed 9 pool or 4 pool will devastate Z economy so much compared to 8 rax.
3-4 SCV sent along will make it much more successful but look at this match between Canata and JD just now, he only used 1 scv and got to kill 4 drones just because he micro'd his marine (which have longer range than drones, therefore easier to micro)
As for the single vulture getting in the base, yes it is easy to stop but sometimes they can leak through just like how any unit can leak through a defense, but it shouldn't be game-costing, thats just messed up imo
On July 23 2009 18:46 Highways wrote: This game showing what a massive advantage Terran has against Zerg.
Jaedong has like 8 drones left. Wraith is out.
Terran >>>>> Zerg
Seriously i agree. 1 fragile unit shouldn't be untouchable by other units (lings) with just micro and win a person the game if that unit goes into the main.
On July 23 2009 18:55 geod wrote:
On July 23 2009 18:52 Highways wrote: Seriously bunker rushing has close to zero risk for Terran, but Zerg can lose a game from it.
Canata is now my most hated player, got the gayest style ever.
Zero risk to let the terran behind? are you kidding?
No, its true. Think about it, a fake bunker rush with canceling a bunker costs Terran 25 minerals. A Zerg reacting to a fake bunker rush will pull at least 6 to 8 drones (each drone mines 8 mineral so thats at least 48 minerals lost just to pull drones)
Not only that, but Zerg will be distracted and late on timing.
You're completely ignoring the fact that 8 raxing hinders the Terrans economy significantly and that 3-4 SCVs usually need to be sent along for a bunker rush to succeed. :O
And as for the single vult getting in the base, it's really quite easy to stop that from happening...
Significantly hinders the economy, you say. About the SCV's, no. 1 SCV might not be enough every time, but 2 should be plenty. Compare that to the mining time the Zerg loses by pulling about 6-8 drones, and also consider that Zerg will have only about 4 drones mining whereas the Terran will have about... 12 or 13 the moment the bunker starts building, nonstop SCV production while Z has to make lings.
You don't necessarily have to kill any drones if you keep your marines alive, and killing merely 2 or 3 drones leaves you ahead. Also consider that your refinery starts just after your supply depot is finished, so your tech will be way faster than the Zerg's, as well. Even if your bunker rush fails almost completely... Let's say you bunker rush with 2 SCVs and 2-3 marines, don't kill any drones but force him to pull about 8 drones and you don't finish your bunker, the fact is that you will have the vulture out in time to counter his lings, and even if he didn't make an excess amount of zerglings(One of the goals of 8rax mech is to have your opponent make lings instead of drones/sunken), you still should be very close to even. Of course, you will most likely kill at least one or two drones with just basic targetfiring, leaving you even or ahead. If you're able to delay the Zerg's sunken at his natural for just a second too long, you get a freewin.
There's not much risk at all, the only way the T gets significantly behind is if he completely mismicroes or goes against 9pool/overpool(more about this later) After going 12hatch, the best counter is most likely to just build a sunken preferably out of the range of the bunker, and assess carefully the size of T's force and the amount of lings that are required, and make the absolute minimum. But even then, a T with good micro will inevitably snipe a couple of your drones, and it'll just translate into a standard TvZ mech play.
Another thing about going for an early pool, as in 9pool, overpool or 12pool, is that you won't have your natural down in time. 8rax mech is surprisingly almost a direct counter to 12pool. Although you will get the lings out in time to counter the 8rax bunker rush, the vulture gets into your main before you can put down a sunken. This means that you must block your ramp somehow with lings and drones until your sunken goes up, and let the vulture attack those units as much as it wants. With 9pool your sunken will be way late, so you basically have to end the game with those early lings or you're completely screwed against speed vultures.
All in all it's very safe for the T, and they can always do a semifake bunker rush with 1 or 2 marines, an SCV and a canceled bunker, which leaves them ahead even if it just forces Z to pull drones.
I don't understand how Jaedong screwing up leads to a huge discussion about how weak and disadvantaged zerg is, while on the other hand, Flash loses to 2 hatch lurkers and it's 5 pages of "Flash shouldn't play so greedy, Flash would never lose if he covered his entire base in turrets and went 6 rax before expanding because his lategame is so good"
On July 24 2009 01:10 Rostam wrote: I don't understand how Jaedong screwing up leads to a huge discussion about how weak and disadvantaged zerg is, while on the other hand, Flash loses to 2 hatch lurkers and it's 5 pages of "Flash shouldn't play so greedy, Flash would never lose if he covered his entire base in turrets and went 6 rax before expanding because his lategame is so good"
Because we already know from the history of Starcraft progaming that Terrans > Zerg since the days of Boxer
Flash losing to a Zerg just means he was playing greedy, opening up 14 cc
Don't blame it on the player, blame it on the balance
On July 24 2009 01:10 Rostam wrote: I don't understand how Jaedong screwing up leads to a huge discussion about how weak and disadvantaged zerg is, while on the other hand, Flash loses to 2 hatch lurkers and it's 5 pages of "Flash shouldn't play so greedy, Flash would never lose if he covered his entire base in turrets and went 6 rax before expanding because his lategame is so good"
Because we already know from the history of Starcraft progaming that Terrans > Zerg since the days of Boxer
Flash losing to a Zerg just means he was playing greedy, opening up 14 cc
Don't blame it on the player, blame it on the balance
Either stop trolling or make a reasonable argument.
Reasonable argument: Terrans have more innovators than zerg, therefore whenever terrans have a new strategy zergs are forced to adapt. Thus for a brief amount of time, Terran win rates spike vs zergs. Thus, terrans have a 55% win ratio vs zergs. Also, terrans have an advantage in the early to mid game because of their superior winrates. However, zergs have dark swarm which gives them the massive advantage lategame. This still works out in the Terran's favor though since early-midgame comes before lategame.
When Jaedong learns how to play against Canatas and fantaSy gay strategies he is just superior in all aspects. T1 terrans rely on early harass to build momentum and advantage nothing else.
Thats like saying that protoss FE is gay because it relies on cannons to help block rushes to secure an early economic advantage.
Its not called a strategy game for nothing.
My point was you see T1 terrans use some kind of combine mech harass into bio or just mech. If you seen FantaSy games and last OSL you know what i'm talking about. Terrans outcome relies heavy on how much damage that slow vulture can do.
And 12 hatch relies heavily on not getting rushed, every build has a risk/reward factor.
Stupid reply. I followed progaming since ChoJJa was good. So I will end discussion here with you.
?!?! That wasn't long time ago actually. Some people here follow progaming when SidE_Legend / JunWi / Sinji / Oddysay / ZeuS and JinNaM were playing
lol at bragging at following progaming since 'chojja was good' chojja was never the best. yes he may have been a really good zerg but he would always be eclipsed by savior.
I seem to remember our dear cowboy beating that upstart in an MSL final. To be sure, sAviOr has the more illustrious career, but for a few months at least, our diminuitive KTF Zerg topped Kespa and won at life.
Not to sound like tfeign, but you have to give him credit where credit's due.
I think Canata just sealed his fate. Winning the first game with an 8 rax against Jaedong? Imagine how pissed Jaedong will be in the upcoming games. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts building hatcheries in Canata's nat. Canata better pray for some miracle or he's done. Non-SKT1 players fighting! =D
EPT
