I know that its coming down to the wire for the playoffs of the proleague and so each and every team is sending out their best all the time, hence SKT-t1 sending out bisu/best/fantasy for 1st 3 matches every round..
but Cj-eNtus trying to match Bisu up against some Protoss that i've never heard of? I mean, nothing against SnOw, I wish him well since he's a protoss user, but trying to go toe-to-toe w/ the King.. i'd be surprised if he even had a 20% chance, rating wise, against Bisu.
Looking forward to seeing the match though - anyone going to stream it? it starts pretty soon? like 2.5 hours?
Snow is new he can pull the upset here and savior well the coachs didnt know savior be play ZvZ again because they dont know the format until both teams sent out the players. i predict 3-1 CJ
On July 03 2009 12:34 il0seonpurpose wrote: Wow SKT is a good team but they have no depth at all, Fantasy, Bisu, and Best. All well, FTW
..not at all. They might not have the depth CJ has, but the players that they CAN feild are at a higher level than anyteam in the league. In a BO7 format, teams like CJ, SKT and STX will shine, while teams like KT, HITE, OZ and Khan will fail.
SKT has Bisu, BeST, Canata and Fantasy all of whom have the capability to take games off of A-S class players. Given that BeST doesn't play vs Z, that lineup in itself is almost an auto-win. Throw in Thezerg (who isnt REALLY that bad) and Hyuk, you have a lineup that could possibly win the PL grand finals.
Teams like Oz and Hite that rely on 1-2 "good" players are gonna die in a bo7. In a bo5 you can hope another player pulls a game, but in a bo7, you need at least 3 players winning their games. Oz has notorious for only haveing JD. Hite only has Leta.. ( i guess you could add Yarnc to this list)
honestly... you are being very biased.
Canata truly does suck (even at TvT, his single 'good' matchup) and his individual league qualification doesn't really change that fact. Best is now bad enough that Kingdom quit. Fantasy and Bisu are solid. So SKT has 2 truly great players. Who is SK going to use for its first 6 games after Bisu, Best, Canata, Fantasy have played? TheZerg? Hyuk? ... Midas?
On the other hand, you make Hite (Leta, Yarnc, Horang2, Type-B, go.go, Hogil) and Oz (JD, Lomo, Hyuk, Backho) sound way worse than they really are.
You can't be serious, Leta is good, Yarnc is ok, the rest is soso. At Oz JD is good, Backho is ok, rest sux...
As for this match, SKT should win it easily, CJ just isnt as strong anymore these days... Just 1 good player left (maybe 2 if skyhigh would perform) but the rest is just slightly above avg at best >_<;
Well Kwanro is playing more then well and so is Iris. Effort is the second best Z at the moment. Skyhigh is not playing as well as he did but he is not bad. Savior still can beat any P in the world. Cj hs four player in the top 30. Call them slighty about avrage is very harsh. With out any doubt Cj has the best 7-man lineup of all team.
On July 03 2009 12:34 il0seonpurpose wrote: Wow SKT is a good team but they have no depth at all, Fantasy, Bisu, and Best. All well, FTW
There's not many teams out there with significantly more depth than SKT1. fantasy is good, Bisu is amazing, BeSt is good as long as he's not playing vZ, Canata is good, and both their Zerg mainstays Hyuk and TheZerg are okay.
STX and CJ might have more depth. Most other teams have less depth than SKT, in fact. Of the teams that can qualify in the top 6...
Hwaseung will suffer in a Bo7 if they have to field up to 6 different players- they have four solid players, but everyone else is terrible. Hite has comparable depth to SKT. KT's depth depends a lot on whether Luxury and fOrGG feel like sucking on any particular day. CJ and STX have the greatest depth out of all the teams. KHAN's depth is so bad that even as they're desperately trying to claw their way into the playoffs, they're fielding Miracle with a 3-9 lifetime record.
tl;dr: SKT's depth is fine.
EDIT: Holy crap I'm a Zealot now!
OZ only has Jaedong, everyone else chokes or goes on a slump. STX has the best balance in terms of the overall team.
On July 03 2009 12:34 il0seonpurpose wrote: Wow SKT is a good team but they have no depth at all, Fantasy, Bisu, and Best. All well, FTW
..not at all. They might not have the depth CJ has, but the players that they CAN feild are at a higher level than anyteam in the league. In a BO7 format, teams like CJ, SKT and STX will shine, while teams like KT, HITE, OZ and Khan will fail.
SKT has Bisu, BeST, Canata and Fantasy all of whom have the capability to take games off of A-S class players. Given that BeST doesn't play vs Z, that lineup in itself is almost an auto-win. Throw in Thezerg (who isnt REALLY that bad) and Hyuk, you have a lineup that could possibly win the PL grand finals.
Teams like Oz and Hite that rely on 1-2 "good" players are gonna die in a bo7. In a bo5 you can hope another player pulls a game, but in a bo7, you need at least 3 players winning their games. Oz has notorious for only haveing JD. Hite only has Leta.. ( i guess you could add Yarnc to this list)
honestly... you are being very biased.
Canata truly does suck
Canata is 7-3 for his last 10 games, is still alive in both OSL and MSL, and sees semi-regular action in Proleague in one of the most star-studded teams out there.
On July 03 2009 12:34 il0seonpurpose wrote: Wow SKT is a good team but they have no depth at all, Fantasy, Bisu, and Best. All well, FTW
There's not many teams out there with significantly more depth than SKT1. fantasy is good, Bisu is amazing, BeSt is good as long as he's not playing vZ, Canata is good, and both their Zerg mainstays Hyuk and TheZerg are okay.
STX and CJ might have more depth. Most other teams have less depth than SKT, in fact. Of the teams that can qualify in the top 6...
Hwaseung will suffer in a Bo7 if they have to field up to 6 different players- they have four solid players, but everyone else is terrible. Hite has comparable depth to SKT. KT's depth depends a lot on whether Luxury and fOrGG feel like sucking on any particular day. CJ and STX have the greatest depth out of all the teams. KHAN's depth is so bad that even as they're desperately trying to claw their way into the playoffs, they're fielding Miracle with a 3-9 lifetime record.
tl;dr: SKT's depth is fine.
EDIT: Holy crap I'm a Zealot now!
OZ only has Jaedong, everyone else chokes or goes on a slump. STX has the best balance in terms of the overall team.
Let me put it this way. When you're in a Bo7 team game, your team needs to field up 6 different players if the series goes on for 6 or 7 sets. If Oz only had Jaedong, then they'd most likely win one set, then lose all the rest by default for not having any other players (cue the PirateZerg and MustacheZerg references). Oz is _not_ a one-man team. Yes, Jaedong is their best player by far. Winner's league aside (during which HiyA was just as pivotal as Jaedong for Hwaseung), Oz has won 26 Proleague series. Jaedong cannot win in Proleague alone, he needs his teammates to perform as well.
His teammates might not be at the level of Bisu, Leta or EffOrt, but they're not at the level of Rock or CuteAngel either. What I'm trying to say is: Not all players that aren't at the skill level of Flash are complete and utter garbage. There really is something in between a bonjwa and D-, skillwise. In fact, just about every progamer falls into that category.
Sure, Hwaseung fans may complain that their second and third best players aren't as good as those in SKT or STX. That's true. But I don't see Hwaseung resorting to using someone like Miracle in their lineup, either. When you need to field 6 players from a team, Backho Lomo and HiyA are _not bad choices_. Hwaseung's problem in a Bo7 format isn't that those three aren't good enough- it's that their choices for fifth and sixth slot are pretty crappy.
On July 03 2009 12:34 il0seonpurpose wrote: Wow SKT is a good team but they have no depth at all, Fantasy, Bisu, and Best. All well, FTW
..not at all. They might not have the depth CJ has, but the players that they CAN feild are at a higher level than anyteam in the league. In a BO7 format, teams like CJ, SKT and STX will shine, while teams like KT, HITE, OZ and Khan will fail.
SKT has Bisu, BeST, Canata and Fantasy all of whom have the capability to take games off of A-S class players. Given that BeST doesn't play vs Z, that lineup in itself is almost an auto-win. Throw in Thezerg (who isnt REALLY that bad) and Hyuk, you have a lineup that could possibly win the PL grand finals.
Teams like Oz and Hite that rely on 1-2 "good" players are gonna die in a bo7. In a bo5 you can hope another player pulls a game, but in a bo7, you need at least 3 players winning their games. Oz has notorious for only haveing JD. Hite only has Leta.. ( i guess you could add Yarnc to this list)
honestly... you are being very biased.
Canata truly does suck (even at TvT, his single 'good' matchup) and his individual league qualification doesn't really change that fact. Best is now bad enough that Kingdom quit. Fantasy and Bisu are solid. So SKT has 2 truly great players. Who is SK going to use for its first 6 games after Bisu, Best, Canata, Fantasy have played? TheZerg? Hyuk? ... Midas?
On the other hand, you make Hite (Leta, Yarnc, Horang2, Type-B, go.go, Hogil) and Oz (JD, Lomo, Hyuk, Backho) sound way worse than they really are.
You can't be serious, Leta is good, Yarnc is ok, the rest is soso. At Oz JD is good, Backho is ok, rest sux...
As for this match, SKT should win it easily, CJ just isnt as strong anymore these days... Just 1 good player left (maybe 2 if skyhigh would perform) but the rest is just slightly above avg at best >_<;
Well Kwanro is playing more then well and so is Iris. Effort is the second best Z at the moment. Skyhigh is not playing as well as he did but he is not bad. Savior still can beat any P in the world. Cj hs four player in the top 30. Call them slighty about avrage is very harsh. With out any doubt Cj has the best 7-man lineup of all team.
Edit did I even mension Much?
ranking doesnt mean that much, kwanro is ok but nothing special i would call him quite average... iris hasnt performed in ages and well hes quite average as well... savior on a good day could beat any protoss, unfortunately any other matchup is instaloss and he doesnt have much good days... Much well... don't think he's special either just your average protoss... then only have effort left who owns....
Snow only just joined the CJ team. So either a) CJ doesn't care whether he wins or loses, they just want to give him experience or b) he's been practising since January for this match =D
I think Skyhigh might have the advantage over Fantasy. He's a lot more unpredictable.
On July 03 2009 17:28 JFKWT wrote: noob question, but do the coaches know in advance what players are being sent by the other team?
Is it totally blind or 1-1 draft or something else
cos if its totally blind things like "why is Free playing PvP" or "don't send a zerg vs Jaedong" wont make much of a point =p
Coaches know what the maps are for all five games, and choose a player for each of the first four games without knowing what the other coach is sending out. Of course, you know that the other team is more likely to send out a Zerg player on a Zerg-favored map like God's Garden, or a Protoss on Heartbreak Ridge- but that's all. Of course, if you're facing Hwaseung, you know it's most likely they'll send out Jaedong in God's Garden. Do you want to send a Zerg to face him? Or would you rather send out a Protoss or Terran on an unfavorable map? Not an easy choice.
If after four games you end up 2-2, then coaches choose their Ace player without knowing who the other team has chosen.
Looks like 3-0 with SKT winning to me. Even if Cj win a game, Savior's ZvZ is a disaster. Cj is the #2 fail team of this round (for fpl), only Khan was worse compared to expectations.
I dont get it.. Why do CJ coaches INSIST on sending Savior in ZvZ's? He sucks at it.. >w<;; I mean.. he IS playing Hyuk but.. i'm not feeling a win for Savior.
On July 03 2009 12:34 il0seonpurpose wrote: Wow SKT is a good team but they have no depth at all, Fantasy, Bisu, and Best. All well, FTW
..not at all. They might not have the depth CJ has, but the players that they CAN feild are at a higher level than anyteam in the league. In a BO7 format, teams like CJ, SKT and STX will shine, while teams like KT, HITE, OZ and Khan will fail.
SKT has Bisu, BeST, Canata and Fantasy all of whom have the capability to take games off of A-S class players. Given that BeST doesn't play vs Z, that lineup in itself is almost an auto-win. Throw in Thezerg (who isnt REALLY that bad) and Hyuk, you have a lineup that could possibly win the PL grand finals.
Teams like Oz and Hite that rely on 1-2 "good" players are gonna die in a bo7. In a bo5 you can hope another player pulls a game, but in a bo7, you need at least 3 players winning their games. Oz has notorious for only haveing JD. Hite only has Leta.. ( i guess you could add Yarnc to this list)
honestly... you are being very biased.
Canata truly does suck (even at TvT, his single 'good' matchup) and his individual league qualification doesn't really change that fact. Best is now bad enough that Kingdom quit. Fantasy and Bisu are solid. So SKT has 2 truly great players. Who is SK going to use for its first 6 games after Bisu, Best, Canata, Fantasy have played? TheZerg? Hyuk? ... Midas?
On the other hand, you make Hite (Leta, Yarnc, Horang2, Type-B, go.go, Hogil) and Oz (JD, Lomo, Hyuk, Backho) sound way worse than they really are.
You can't be serious, Leta is good, Yarnc is ok, the rest is soso. At Oz JD is good, Backho is ok, rest sux...
As for this match, SKT should win it easily, CJ just isnt as strong anymore these days... Just 1 good player left (maybe 2 if skyhigh would perform) but the rest is just slightly above avg at best >_<;
funny.
SKT: bisu is good, fantasy is good, the rest are soso (Keep overhyping canata desperate SKT fans)
CJ is Effort, sKyHigh, much, movie, kwanro, savior, iris
On July 03 2009 17:28 JFKWT wrote: noob question, but do the coaches know in advance what players are being sent by the other team?
Is it totally blind or 1-1 draft or something else
cos if its totally blind things like "why is Free playing PvP" or "don't send a zerg vs Jaedong" wont make much of a point =p
each coach submits their lineup for the given maps to kespa. When the lineups are submitted, neither coach knows what players from the other team will play where when he is submitting his list.
However, the lineups are released about a week before the actual match, giving players a chance to practice for that week while knowing not only what map they will be playing on, but also who their opponent will be.
CJ is definitely the team with the most depth, STX is a close second, especially with players like Shutte showing they are good enough for PL.
SKT has fantasy and Bisu, Best has been in a slump since WL started, Canata is meh otherwise SKT would send him out more. And SKT are and will always be failzergs. :p
Oz has Jaedong, Hiya is in a slump (but ended his losing streak at least), BackHo is an awesome player as long as he doesn't get an early advantage. Lomo is a bit better than Canata. The rest is eh..., Killer maybe (he seems to be doing good in practice).
Hite used to be like Oz, Leta and someone else getting a win, Leta wins the ace match. But recently their players all improved so I would put them around SKT's strength. KT is the team full of fails, forgg, Lux. Flash and Violet are the only reason they still have a chance for the playoffs and Khan's players are all slumping.
On July 04 2009 01:47 cgrinker wrote: Maybe Savior should offrace against Hyuk.
Don't think that's possible. He would have to let KeSPA know in advance he's playing as a different race, you can't just switch races whenever you feel like it as far as I know.