[WL] Playoffs: KTF vs OZ - Page 90

On March 25 2009 13:39 SimonB wrote:
Maybe I was a bit too crude when I said Flash played like absolute shit. He played decently (though I would still contend not close to his recent TvZ) through the first 15 minutes.

After that though, it was pretty bad. I'll reiterate, 20 vessels lost in the span of 10 minutes (and that's only caught on the observer!). It wasn't the kind where he plagued the whole lot and got them with a mutalisk either. It was in isolated cases each of malaise and terrible control. His micro was terrible. His macro looked pretty lousy from what I saw too. Zerg should not be able to compete with Terran on equal bases. Lack of tanks is one indication of failure on Flash's part, but it was more than that. He failed on multiple fronts. He had all the advantages; he should've been able to win. Jaedong played well, but he did not play at some kind of super level that excuses Flash's play.

On March 25 2009 13:30 Person514cs wrote:


He played worst then normal because Jaedong was out multitasking him. He had too much faith in his pure sk army. Should of marines drop + tanks. He was just stubborn didn't even try to change his strategy.

On March 25 2009 13:49 EternaLEnVy wrote:


Obviously what you saw was not the game, since the observers pointed out how Flash was keeping his macro up despite everything. His barracks were always flashing, ALL of them, this was shown by the observers. Saying that Jaedong played well is quite funny actually, Jaedong played like a god, i'm sure even Jaedong agrees with me here inside. I'm sure Flash prepared lots for this series, especially for the chance to beat Jaedong. His multi tasking wasn't able to keep up with Jaedongs, as we saw multiple times, this is a case of Flash just not being good enough to keep up, not that he had wasn't playing at his best.

On March 25 2009 14:00 SimonB wrote:

Tell me how the observer was letting everybody know his macro was keeping up. They occasionally looked at his barracks every two minutes? Is that what you call macro?

On March 25 2009 14:02 koreasilver wrote:

Did you even notice how he constantly conjured up mnm troops and a few science vessals regardless of how Jaedong constantly killed them?

On March 25 2009 14:13 SimonB wrote:

JD constantly killing pitiful isolated groups of units only proves my point further. He had no "critical mass" anywhere and he only had three passes to guard. 4 base terran can conjure up armies in no time.

On March 25 2009 14:13 SimonB wrote:

JD constantly killing pitiful isolated groups of units only proves my point further. He had no "critical mass" anywhere and he only had three passes to guard. 4 base terran can conjure up armies in no time.

On March 25 2009 14:13 SimonB wrote:

JD constantly killing pitiful isolated groups of units only proves my point further. He had no "critical mass" anywhere and he only had three passes to guard. 4 base terran can conjure up armies in no time.

On March 25 2009 16:05 Sigrun wrote:


You keep talking about this 4 base shit but Flash was never on 4 bases for an extended period of time. He had the two bases at 9 for a short time (he probably only had them up and running for less than ten minutes), but we don't know how close his main and natural were to being mined out so he might have been only on 2 or 3 bases for all we know (and I'm fairly certain his main was mined out).

Jaedong did an excellent job at shutting those expansions down before they really kicked in, and Jaedong had been on 4-5 bases for a while, so he was able to out-macro Flash at the end as well. I don't really understand where all your antagonism is coming from, but they both played great.

On March 25 2009 16:06 boxxyownz wrote:
itt: jaedong allkills but all everyone talks about is flashes mistakes, instead of giving jaedong credit.

I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed. (c) Michael Jordan

On March 25 2009 16:06 boxxyownz wrote:
itt: jaedong allkills but all everyone talks about is flashes mistakes, instead of giving jaedong credit.

On March 25 2009 16:17 Magic84 wrote:

Everybody knows that Jaedong is incredible, Flash however is 4-8 in last 12, that's not normal, people are worried.

On March 25 2009 19:26 Manit0u wrote:


I kept telling people that Flash sucks but no-one ever listened... Now I have my revenge!

On March 25 2009 13:18 koreasilver wrote:
If you can't see the difference between the two games, then you're helpless.

Flash killed Jaedong's fourth twice, and for periods of time, he was running on more bases than Jaedong. He also won many fights compared to Hwasin, who lost every single fight he engaged in. Flash noticed Jaedong's hydralisks when he was running 4 bases (4 gas) vs. Jaedong's 3 bases (3 gas). Jaedong did get his fourth back up for the third time shortly after, but Flash still had the economic advantage. He also already had a factory with a machine shop attached to it at that point. If he began producing siege tanks after seeing the hydralisks, he could have easily made Jaedong's hydralurk unit composition much less effective. Once a zerg commits to hydralurk, it is difficult to change unit composition effectively, and Flash had the resources to make a third starport for vessals while he was running on four bases; he easily had the resources required to make tanks off of two factories while also producing vessals off of two ports.

Jaedong didn't prevent Flash from taking expansions at all. It was 4 base vs 4 base for like 6 minutes, and Jaedong did not have 6-7 bases; he only got up to 5 at the end of the game. Flash only lost his expansions when the game was already lost, and why would Flash need to take more expansions when he's running on the same number of expansions as Jaedong? Flash had the advantage during the mid to early late game, but because he stubbornly stuck with SK Terran when Jaedong switched to hydralurk with plague, he started to lose most of the fights and Jaedong eventually won due to it.