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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On March 06 2009 20:31 SkelA wrote:
how you can say jd macro and defence was bad? i can say his micro was horible this game and that cost him at end his defence was 11/10 and macro was ok
His macro and defense certainly weren't bad, as his defense was ridiculously spot on, but instead he failed in game sense, the area where one bad mistake can swing the tide of the game, which is what happened.
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On March 06 2009 20:19 Scorch wrote:
Fuck this. How can Jaedong beat Bisu, only to lose to Stork right after that?
Its simple , people pissing to much at stork , but when it turns in to a macro game i expect Stork to kill almost eny opponent . Bisu doesn't have the macro of Stork he is more of a multitasking harrasing type and you can't out multitask Jaedong . Also Jaedong doesn't have the macro of July/by.hero ( he does have good macro thought ). He doesn't even have their large army control . When it comes to controling 2 - 3 groups of units Jaedong micros pretty well but when you go in to the big fights Jaedong just attack moves just like all zerg . Thats why i respect July's ZvP much more then enyones - More macro , controling at least 4 groups of units at once like its 1 control group which kills down the protoss ball and you can clean it up later with superiour macro .
If things are going this way by.hero has a pretty good chance at royal roading this OSL , his biggest threads are Jaedong and Luxury the way i see it , presuming he can take out Hwasin that is ...
Its better to control 4 - 5 groups of units and do a good damage to the protoss ball , then attack moving all your shit in to them and losing all your army ... Attack moving is only good when you know you can outmacro him .
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On March 06 2009 20:31 sushiman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:28 PhoenixShredds wrote:
I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap. It's true that Jaedongs play kept him in the game for a long time, and he did have excellent responses to what stork was doing. However, all his attacks were horribly mismicroed and catastrophic. His first attack was basically just suiciding half of his army in a line down a ramp, while the rest stood at home doing nothing. Defense was top-notch, attack was downright horrible.
I'll definitely agree with that. However, Stork still deserves more credit for the win is all I'm saying.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On March 06 2009 20:32 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:30 Roffles wrote:On March 06 2009 20:28 PhoenixShredds wrote:
I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap. He was ridiculously far ahead after denying Stork's first few attempts at a reaver/sair harass, aided by some ridiculously nicely burrowed spotter lings and whatnot. But he went ahead and massed a huge army and threw it all away by attempting to engage the nat briefly against 3 reavers and cannons, and that first engagement in the middle vs a ton of dragoons and reavers, which cost him at least half his army without damaging's Stork's army. It looked to me like the first attack should have easily been able to break Stork's natural. I don't think those Reavers could have beat that many Hydras.
Decently small choke size, plus he walked straight in, which allowed reavers to just fire away at will.
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On March 06 2009 20:32 PhoenixShredds wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:29 Coffee wrote:
obviously you're not reading well phoenix, his late game play was hot, well defensively, we're saying, if you watch the vod where he losses 24 hydra to 3 storm and a rvr was crap early game. =] Well yeah, that was crap for JD, but I'm referring to the people more generalizing that Jaedong blew the whole game and Stork didn't earn the win. I don't like excuses is all. 
The game was practically over and JD's victory before he decided to 1. get lurkers 2. throw everything away. So that's a pretty accurate description, although the "earn the win" is pretty biased.
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If JD will lose whole series, It will be easy for Bisu to take OSL gold !
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On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote:
What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either.
You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent..
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On March 06 2009 20:35 abakben wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote:
What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either. You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent..
Lol, I'm relatively new around here, but I'm learning that pretty fast.
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On March 06 2009 20:29 integral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:25 Aesop wrote:
Well seriously, even if Stork had wanted to finish it earlier, JD didnt let him. He kept on sniping those observers and threatening the added bases. being more offensive could have resulted in losing a crucial mining base and losing his attack squad. This. Jaedong delayed the game more than stork, trying to buy time. Everyone getting annoyed with stork for not suiciding units against lurkers he can't see and defending successfully against jaedong's harass attempts just seems to be mad at stork for winning.
the reason it played out so long is because stork didn't have any aoe defense at his 4th gas that had just gone up. jd took it out and was able to delay the game sooooo long
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Ok, now I want to see Bisu-by.hero final:-)
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On March 06 2009 20:30 malongo wrote:
Moral of the story: If you are ahead dont let the opponent play like you are even. Jaedong neglectded mutas AND drops. In fact played 1 base ahead but never cared to improve his leading. Keyword: Iniciative.
he traded mutas for his 4th and a better econ (notice how he made stork put up a lot of cannons). i do agree with you that he could have dropped stork though. And he never got a chance to be more than one base ahead because he lost his army...
On March 06 2009 20:30 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:28 PhoenixShredds wrote:
I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap. He was ridiculously far ahead after denying Stork's first few attempts at a reaver/sair harass, aided by some ridiculously nicely burrowed spotter lings and whatnot. But he went ahead and massed a huge army and threw it all away by attempting to engage the nat briefly against 3 reavers and cannons, and that first engagement in the middle vs a ton of dragoons and reavers, which cost him at least half his army without damaging's Stork's army.
it was 3 bases toss vs 4 base zerg. in terms of econ, they were about equal, but jd had map control. he was ahead, but to say ridiculously ahead is an exaggeration. it wasn't an impossible situation for stork, though he was fighting uphill
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Yeah, people saying JD had this massive lead are blowing it way out of proportion. He had a brief lead, yes, but it was never that massive.
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9070 Posts
On March 06 2009 20:36 PhoenixShredds wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:35 abakben wrote:On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote:
What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either. You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent.. Lol, I'm relatively new around here, but I'm learning that pretty fast.
yeah its clearly that JD lost to the overpowered mech ... anyway besides the crappy sair control Stork was flawless
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you're right, jaedong was never ahead, therefore it's okay that he lost
I fail to understand this logic
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Come on guys, give a man credit where it's due. Stork played and excellent game of Starcraft here. Maybe a liiiittle too careful, but that's nothing you can blame him for.
And stop saying "Omg omg omg, Jaedong had it in the bag". Nothing was in any bag. As was mentioned earlier, Stork's economy was completely unharassed, and he was maybe half a base behind. Jaedong's failed attack is just the way PvZ works. It's really easy to waste your whole army to a few storms and some reaver shots. It could have happened anytime.
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On March 06 2009 20:32 Coffee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:30 malongo wrote:
Moral of the story: If you are ahead dont let the opponent play like you are even. Jaedong neglectded mutas AND drops. In fact played 1 base ahead but never cared to improve his leading. Keyword: Iniciative. ah yes, MUTA AND DROP VS 7 SAIR. now that would have definately won the game for jaedong! if only he knew how to play sc, the fact is, he had the lead, decided to engage, he should have instead just played that defensive advantage and macro'd. he woulda easily won but he threw away a huge army with a weak attack.
If you want to argue something be civilized or stfo, obviously you have 0 strategical abilities and worse understanding of the game. The only thing you propose is that going ahead your best option is playing defensive? you didnt see jaedong vs free. Jaedong used a 2 hatch spire with no mutas, early mutas force to waste storms and delay the P, and drops are an option even against 7 corsairs when you have a scourge fleet just patrolling.
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On March 06 2009 20:35 abakben wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote:
What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either. You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent..
So are bisu fans too
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On March 06 2009 20:40 Mooncat wrote:
Come on guys, give a man credit where it's due. Stork played and excellent game of Starcraft here. Maybe a liiiittle too careful, but that's nothing you can blame him for.
And stop saying "Omg omg omg, Jaedong had it in the bag". Nothing was in any bag. As was mentioned earlier, Stork's economy was completely unharassed, and he was maybe half a base behind. Jaedong's failed attack is just the way PvZ works. It's really easy to waste your whole army to a few storms and some reaver shots.
+1
Alright guys, I'm gonna go get some sleep. Yay for Stork.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
Oh my god, Stork made my day twise. First in tiebreakers, second today vs JD!!
And Lux too
But Best... I wanted him to win 
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On March 06 2009 20:41 Baddieko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2009 20:35 abakben wrote:On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote:
What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either. You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent.. So are bisu fans too
I think you have no idea about the dicscussion topic. If you want you can compare all the LRs and you will clearly see that no one can outperform JD fans in this area.
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EPT
