BeSt went for some Reaver harass, got deflected. Bisu attacks with goons, shuttle, 2 teaver. Bests 2nd Reaver just got out. Its in an isolated position. 2nd reaver dies! Best in bad position!
On March 06 2009 18:18 Shikyo wrote: I start the stream just in time to see Best gg. Okay, Best's PvP is his worst MU nowadays after getting his ass handed to him by Stork.
Wow, the commentator said "Bisu?"
He said bisu in the context of best losing. (Getting stabbed by a dagger/bisu)
On March 06 2009 18:18 Shikyo wrote: I start the stream just in time to see Best gg. Okay, Best's PvP is his worst MU nowadays after getting his ass handed to him by Stork.
Wow, the commentator said "Bisu?"
He said bisu in the context of best losing. (Getting stabbed by a dagger/bisu)
We are back in the Arena, at least on my stream Massive zoom on KTY picture. It is amazing to see how Bisu moves out JUST when he deflects that harass, knowing that he will have the better position with dual Reavers in his dropship.
From my perspective on the replay afterwards, it seemed like Best had more goons than Bisu did. Aside from the positioning of the reavers, I don't understand how Best can just hole up his goons behind the natural min line and not attempt to snipe Bisu's shuttle....
You know, I think Best's build actually put him ahead in the game, it was just his terrible control that lost it for him. He had the nex up and mining, with a good goon count AND same reaver count as Bisu when the attack finally came. The problem was his positioning. He had the shuttle on the wrong side of the expo (should have been by ramp to help pick up the 2nd reaver) and his goons were all clumped up. And his control with the 2nd reaver was just BAD. It shot one zealot, then promptly got popped by Bisu's double reavers. Why Best ever brought that thing down the ramp without the shuttle hovering overhead is beyond me.
On March 06 2009 18:33 EvoChamber wrote: Lux isn't really playing Fantasy. He's playing an oov puppet.
hahaha that statement actually holds a lot of credit. and woooo, woooo, my stream is actually 10 seconds into the game and is running as smoothy as in commercials. Could this be it? A solid stream!? :O
Luxury's ovie is in fantasy's main by now, sees fantasy's build. fantasy has 1 rine, and has started his rax. fantasy scouting lux, lux has gas by now.
fantasy making an ebay, lux making a spire. Hydra den is completed, and a second vult for fantasy, machine shop spinning, wraith out, addon to starport starting.
Fantasy has a Starport up, getting a Wraith and expanding to his natural. Spire building for Lux and he has a Hydra den at his choke. Fantasy also getting machine shop, control tower, and an eng bay.
the wraith killed an overlord by fantasy's nat, but didn't do any damage to lux other than that (so far) uvlts have mines by now. Fantays has an armory he's producing from his rax, making turrets, and his ebay is flashing. Mutas out from lux.
I just fully realized how hard it must be for a progamer zerg to prepare for a ZvT series these days. If you plan like a 2 hatch lurker build and the guy goes mech, your entire preparation just goes out the window. Can't prepare one build, you need at least a backup build against mech fully practised before going out there. annoying to say the least :S
Similar to a fantasy build but with a wraith first. Vulture harass never existed with hydra den/sunken/lings blocking. Control tower added on. Lux got mutas with 2 hatch mtua.
Fantasy has two valks, loses wraith, and goes turrets instead of mass goliath, as he wouldn't have enough goliaths to fend it off. Spider mines kill lurker.
Valk is done for Fantasy, first mutas out for Lux which try to cover a drone that is expanding at 9. But Fantasy really appears to be switching back to bionic with valks.
Fantasy with a second valk. Lux catches fantasy's wraith, and kills it with muta. fantasy finising up acad. Lux with 2 lurkers, fantasy making bunkers, FANTASY HAS NO SCAN
Fantasy having no trouble fending off the mutas time after time. 9 is up now and mainly used to gather gas. Large flock of mutas for Lux, but he is mostly adding lurkers now.
Lux morphing more lurkers. Fantasy looks like he's going to take his mineral only sometime soon. lux has a lot of muta and 4 scourge. fantasy only has 2 valks still, as far as I see.
Luxury comes into fantasy's main with a lot of mutas, deal a bit of damage, but get driven off. Lux's fourth is done. Dammit, flood control again. Fantays has 3 tanks, and a fiar bit of m&m, luxury killing the temples with lurkers.
Wow, tanks kill the lurkers, but the mutas are getting some sick harass in. I think the valks were destroyed. edit: one is still around, but gets destroyed now.
Lux has pretty much free reign of fantasy's base with hust mutas. Fantasy is doing an okay job at defending, but okay isn't enough. Lux tries to attack the nat with a different group of mutas, but retreats to a valk.
This looks utterly over. I cannot see fantasy coming back from this. It's that stage in the game where luxury's mutas are just in fantasy's base, not being microed, because it doesn't matter. Luxury rallying more mutas to fantasy's base.
Wow... I'm consistently less impressed by Fantasy as time goes on. It's clear he had a game plan in his head that he didn't want to deviate from, regardless of what his opponent was doing... gimmicky builds will only get you so far, for a little while.
On March 06 2009 18:49 usopsama wrote: Fantasy obviously practiced a lot with this build, and he was probably very confident too. Unfortunately, he didn't practice against Luxury.
Lol SKT zergs < Lux hehe. Fantasy should've switched it up and gone mnm.
On March 06 2009 18:50 EvilTeletubby wrote: Wow... I'm consistently less impressed by Fantasy as time goes on. It's clear he had a game plan in his head that he didn't want to deviate from, regardless of what his opponent was doing... gimmicky builds will only get you so far, for a little while.
I think his plans was just to nullify the mutas with valks , but it didn't work at all .
On March 06 2009 18:50 EvilTeletubby wrote: Wow... I'm consistently less impressed by Fantasy as time goes on. It's clear he had a game plan in his head that he didn't want to deviate from, regardless of what his opponent was doing... gimmicky builds will only get you so far, for a little while.
I think his plans was just to nullify the mutas with valks , but it didn't work at all .
His plan was to nullify the initial mutas with valks.... he *assumed* Lux would abandon mutas after he had a couple valks and stopped making them. He only started making more once it was too late.
On March 06 2009 19:04 EvoChamber wrote: I'm sorta curious as to who hero practiced with for this matchup. Flash, maybe, since they're from the same clan?
Flash was probably helping luxury practice (teamates) makes sense too since luxury raped fantasy =P
Hwasin expanding at his nat, by.hero scouting it with his overlord, but hwasin's scouting SCV that's just leaving his base sees the overlord. by.hero with a lair starting.
By.hero sneaks a ling around the backside, tries to sneak it into hwasin's main, but is denied, then a bunch of lings try it from the frint, 2 get through, scout acadamy done and flashing, kill an SCV, scout an ebay starting.
But Hwasin loads up and defends for now. Mutas now in his main base, but no targets besides the engineering bay. But if he kills that, it could still be huge as the upgrade would be delayed. Marines charge in, but they cannot save the bay! Bay is floated back and repaired.
wow, the ebay was entirely in the red, but it barely gets repaired, because hwasin sacrificed several rines, the ebay was forced to cancel any upgrades when it lifted.
those mutas are merely being annoying right now, picking at the ebay and stuff, but Hwasin looks really good atm. Wow, the ebay baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarely survives,having to be lifted and massrepaired. Mutas are now coming in for some real damage, taking out loads of bio, before hwasin gets them to a pack of turrets and gets a foothold again
Hwasin starting a starport, by.hero sending out a drone to expand, and a hydra, must have lurker tech soon. hwasin adding a machine shop to his factory.
That harass really tore into Hwasin. Now 4 lurkers are circling his base. ENgbay being targetted again. Such an unlucky building. Hidden expansion started at 2.
First tank is out, lurkers burrow at the natural extractor, but the bunker is well placed, First tank helps taking out the lurkers, but 2nd tank is sniped by mutas.
Hero's muta-snatch (what I call the snatch between the mutas attacking and turning back) is friggin awesome. He barely exposes them to damage at all coming in at those scv-picks. lurkers are hatched and on the move , first tank is out and hwasin is looking to keep that tank alive because 2 lurekrs are burrowed at the top of hwasins nat and taking out the refinery. tank is kept safe and the lurkers are driven off after doing mediocre dmg
More lurkers moving up the map, Hwasin sending out a small MM force that gets chased by muta / lurk. Only two medics there, I dont think he can be successful with those.
Hero is playing basically the same as he was against Leta on this map, using lurkers to secure map contorl and maneuvering around. Only this is working better so far than it did against Leta.
Hwasin loses 4 rines in some sloppy control, and also wastes a scan. Hwasin adding 3 more rax, bringing his total up to 4. HWASIN ATTACKS SOME LURKS, BY.HERO FLANKS!!! Hwasin pushed back into his nat.
By.hero has most of his mutas still, but hwasin is turtuled up with turrets like crazy.
Hwasin lurker contained, setting up his tanks to combat the threat, but needs to be careful not to lose his vessel.Two scourge are already around and wait.
Hero retreats his contain, but he should have defilers soon.
9 lurkers camped at the high ground above Hwasin's nat. 2 scourge looking to take out the vessel giving tanks vision. Hwasin has to be really careful here. and he is so far. is he gonna slip up? no, he plays it safe and Hero has to back off with the lurkers. Hive is ready and defilers are coming. so is a nydus to hero's third.
Hwasin has 2 tanks, pounding on lurkers outside his natrual. By.hero eventually runs away his contain, his defiler den is done by now, and he's connecting his nat to his third with nydus. First defiler out.
Swarms go up, pushing Hwasin back, but he has tanks and will approach hero's 3 O'clock expansions instead. Hwasin ignores the dark swarm, goes for the hatchery instead.
here comes a really good timing push from Hwasin. but consume is ready! just ready! and Hero gets a good swarm up, forcing hwasin back. Now hwasin is gonna have to get some more vessels up and take out those defilers. He decides to move for the third instead, but the nydus is up there and I don't think he'll do very well, He does irradiate a lurker instead of a nearby defiler. dumb. sloppy. A swarm is up over his army and he has to try a runby. losing some marines but keeps enough alive to take out hero's new 4th base.
Hwasin still has rines and medics where the hatch was destroyed, preventing it from rebuilding. Hwasin pushing out with a new force over to by.hero's nat, defiler barely gets swarm up in time.
Tried to go in with Dmatrix marine. Ultracavern started for hero now. Hwasin pressuring at least, he is doing that well. Now a dropship to an undefended base, and he might even have a chance. But his main will be dry soon.
Finally Hwasin is getting off some good irradiates on defilers. PLague is starting to hit now. He is softening up the lurkers at 2. Moves towards the bottom again. Hwasin is very good at this movement game. Dropship going for 2 probably, but there are some scourge and a nydus channel there.
Natural again,
Good plague on Hwasin. Dropship going for mainbase, but scourge there!
Scourges take BOTH of hwasin's vessels, that mnm group is in the shit right now. a new army is marching from hwasins nat, with 2 tanks and a vessel and a bunch of mnm. Looking to put up camp outside hero's nat again. The initial army is now dead but the 4th is dead and has to be rebuilt. Hwasin moves into the nat but swarm drives him back. He is clawing himself into a good position here good sir Hwasin. Hero is getting his ultra den up atm and Hwasin needs to irradiate those defilers before new scourges are out. 5 tanks out for Hwasin at his nat high ground. is he gonna move them down or keep them for defense?
Moving his entire army again towards the now well saturated third. He does irradiate the defiler there and hero is looking to plague. hwasin runs, runs, runs but eats a small plague on a vessel and some Mnm. Not deadly tho. Moving his stuff back to the natural now while loading up a dropship. He is keeping hero very busy and makes him swarm a lot --> moving to the next place. dropship is moving for the tech at hero's main I think?
Hwasin with a dropship, loading up m&m. Hwasin in front of by.hero's nat. by.hero has scourge patrolling by his bases though, the dropship could be in big trouble.
Drop turns around and goes for the 2 expansion instead! Tanks siege up there too. Attention focussed to the front when drop unloads in the back, great play by Hawsin if he can multitask this,
Marine only drop, WHY OH WHY.
Gets killed rather fast. Plague on the vessel cloud, and both defilers not irradiated.
No, the dropship turns and goes for the newly re-established 4th. or is it? No, it loads at the third while the main army with tanks pounds at the 4th. Nydus canals brings in units to stop the units that came from the dropship. 5 vessels are flying now... they get plagued! all but one! Hwasin needs to be careful now. he's in a good position but could get really sandwhiched here if Hero gets a good position. Hero finds hwasin's fresh third with lings and drives the push back somewhat with swarms. Are the ultras coming soon? they should be!
Hwasin has 5 vessels right now, and by.hero's defilers are getting iradiated like crazy, but ultras are out! 2 ultras and a defiler are immediately irradiated, but by.hero has a ton of ultras.
Ultras are out! no speed yet, but armor and a lot of defilers in play. Hwasin irradiates a bunch of both. 7 ultras sitting at hero's nat with a LOAD of lings. if hero gets them into play midmap we're gonna see ACTION. Hero is just grouping his stuff now for some major kickassing. Hwasin is gonna have to defend now, cause that is one NASTY army coming from hero! wow scourges moving to take vessels, they ALL die!
Okay, hwasin has a ton more vessels than I thought, but he loses three to scourge. Another drop at by.hero's third, this time with medics, but it gets cleaned up by a lot of lurkling
Supply numbers are really looking grim now, hero at about 150, Hwasin below 100. Soon the final attack will come onto the natural. Huge plague on vessels again, but they are doing their job at irradiating the ultras at least.
Meanwhile 2 dropships going for the third, doing little dmg because lurkers are planted there. Ultras etc moving to hwasins third. Hwasin is now having like 9 vessels in his nat haha, dont know what energy lvl they have but they must be running off of 2 starports. 8 barrackses running atm. Hwasin is not out of this yet, but he needs to regain some momentum becuse hero has COMPLETE map contorl with tons of ultras, lings and a good amount of defilers. gets a huge plague off on 5-6 vessels but hwasin irradiates the same amount of ultras. scourges incoming, but hwasin only loses 1 vessel. This is tense!
2 new dropships moving for the third but lurkers are still there with 1 ultra. Not gonna do much dmg. Mutas are in air now looking to score masskills on plagued vessels. Hwasin is really, really in the shits now. Ultraling under swarm moving into Hwasin's nat. No way he can hold this!
The incredible macro he showed towards Bisu the other day clearly could be applied to his ZvT play as well. Huge amounts of units towards the end. Great friggin defiler play as well, even though Hwasin was a little sloppy taking them out
For the sake of this OSL I really hope Hwasin swings this back next week. I really, really want to see Hwasin vs Jaedong. Then again, maybe Stork smacks Jaedong next?
Fantastic play from Hero the whole way through. I really can't fault his play at any point that game, other than perhaps the worrying SV count that started building up. Still, hero kept all but one of his expos safe the whole game and continually whittled Hwasin's army down with zerglings. And then at the end he went to go shake Hwasin's hand but Hwasin looked downright O_O. Hwasin looked really haggard and worn. Maybe some unknown personal issues? He just looked really damn tired.
On March 06 2009 19:35 EvoChamber wrote: hero had that game won with the damage his mutas did, I think he was just being nice to Hwasin when he let the game drag on as long as it did.
Or he just wanted to show Hwasin he could handle late game?
Why would he need to show his teammate? Hwasin should already know.
On March 06 2009 19:35 EvoChamber wrote: hero had that game won with the damage his mutas did, I think he was just being nice to Hwasin when he let the game drag on as long as it did.
Or he just wanted to show Hwasin he could handle late game?
Not sure if it was letting him so much as Hwasin had prepped for lurkers very early on with the two bunkers and then with the mass amounts of turret spam in his base. Hwasin effectively put himself out of the game with that reaction to the muta harass, so Hero just went for expos and safely rode it out to an econ/late-game victory. I think he was more just playing it safe with his huge advantage. He also did a 2 hatch muta/lurkers, so his econ took a while to build up for late-game play.
On March 06 2009 19:36 BisuBoi wrote: Fantastic play from Hero the whole way through. I really can't fault his play at any point that game, other than perhaps the worrying SV count that started building up. Still, hero kept all but one of his expos safe the whole game and continually whittled Hwasin's army down with zerglings. And then at the end he went to go shake Hwasin's hand but Hwasin looked downright O_O. Hwasin looked really haggard and worn. Maybe some unknown personal issues? He just looked really damn tired.
Oh of course I totally missed that during LR, but lifting the engi bay meant canceling the +1 midway. That must really have hurt in the long run! Bad, bad, bad placement of the engi bay by Hwasin then. Could have been put in the top left of his base
On March 06 2009 19:39 Nick_54 wrote: wow, 411 apm for By. Hero. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that up there with Jaedong as far as zergs are concerned?
On March 06 2009 19:39 Nick_54 wrote: wow, 411 apm for By. Hero. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that up there with Jaedong as far as zergs are concerned?
It is, and it's not very strange, considering he's got July for mentor. July's legendary 800+ peak apm or whatever that shit was. There are probably people more hardcore than me here who remember the exact nr (814 ?) and what game it was in.
On March 06 2009 19:39 Nick_54 wrote: wow, 411 apm for By. Hero. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that up there with Jaedong as far as zergs are concerned?
I just want to warn you all, the the live reports might be a little slow, because as soon as the game starts, I'll be furiously masturbating myself with one hand, while admiring Jaedong's play.
On March 06 2009 19:39 Nick_54 wrote: wow, 411 apm for By. Hero. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that up there with Jaedong as far as zergs are concerned?
On March 06 2009 19:41 BisuBoi wrote: oh snap here comes the main event. Two S-class clashing!
That's weird, this was actually the game I was the least hyped about. S-class players indeed, but one of these guys sports a very questionable A- vZ...... except just last week when his midgame was pretty strong...
if Stork makes it out of JD's aggresive early play (doubtful), then he could make a flash in the pan. maybe.
On March 06 2009 19:43 CDRdude wrote: I just want to warn you all, the the live reports might be a little slow, because as soon as the game starts, I'll be furiously masturbating myself with one hand, while admiring Jaedong's play.
rofl, I'll try to LR it instead then, tho im warning you, im not as pro-JD as most ppl on this site are.
On March 06 2009 19:39 Nick_54 wrote: wow, 411 apm for By. Hero. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that up there with Jaedong as far as zergs are concerned?
It is, and it's not very strange, considering he's got July for mentor. July's legendary 800+ peak apm or whatever that shit was. There are probably people more hardcore than me here who remember the exact nr (814 ?) and what game it was in.
On March 06 2009 19:42 GinNtoniC wrote: dang, JD got the hot boothgirl. That actually has been favoring players so far in the tournament, I've been keeping tracks on it
On March 06 2009 19:39 Nick_54 wrote: wow, 411 apm for By. Hero. Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that up there with Jaedong as far as zergs are concerned?
It is, and it's not very strange, considering he's got July for mentor. July's legendary 800+ peak apm or whatever that shit was. There are probably people more hardcore than me here who remember the exact nr (814 ?) and what game it was in.
On March 06 2009 19:41 BisuBoi wrote: oh snap here comes the main event. Two S-class clashing!
That's weird, this was actually the game I was the least hyped about. S-class players indeed, but one of these guys sports a very questionable A- vZ...... except just last week when his midgame was pretty strong...
if Stork makes it out of JD's aggresive early play (doubtful), then he could make a flash in the pan. maybe.
Haha you're quite right, and that's why it's exciting for me. I'm hoping for that flash in the pan! You never know what you're gonna get from Stork in the starleagues...
Stork has a very good chance in this game. The map is neutral, maybe tilts a little towards Protoss, and Stork's ground-game PvZ has been fierce recently.
On March 06 2009 19:41 BisuBoi wrote: oh snap here comes the main event. Two S-class clashing!
That's weird, this was actually the game I was the least hyped about. S-class players indeed, but one of these guys sports a very questionable A- vZ...... except just last week when his midgame was pretty strong...
if Stork makes it out of JD's aggresive early play (doubtful), then he could make a flash in the pan. maybe.
Haha you're quite right, and that's why it's exciting for me. I'm hoping for that flash in the pan! You never know what you're gonna get from Stork in the starleagues...
you actually do, stork is probably the most predictable of all gamers, win or lose.
(sorry, but he just seems to be the most un-inventive most boring,predictable player other than that ONE game vs. flash on troy that was awesome)
The pathetic protoss is putting down a pylon. At his natural. Meanwhile, the Lord of all Zergs is getting an overlord first, following a superbly researched build order.
Jaedong vs Stork on Return of the King. Jaedong yellow bottom right. Stork Red top left.
Stork planting pylon at natural at 8, going FE. JD going 12 hatch by the looks of it. Stork scouting semi-right, getting JD in the second try.Hatch is planted tho before the probe gets there to prevent it. Forge warping for Stork.
Stork plants the Nexus at 15 after seeing JD's 12 hatch. Pool at 11 for JD. Drone harass happening, but JD is defending well. Gateway coming before cannons. No 3rd hatch yet from JD. 6 lings coming.
On March 06 2009 19:41 BisuBoi wrote: oh snap here comes the main event. Two S-class clashing!
That's weird, this was actually the game I was the least hyped about. S-class players indeed, but one of these guys sports a very questionable A- vZ...... except just last week when his midgame was pretty strong...
if Stork makes it out of JD's aggresive early play (doubtful), then he could make a flash in the pan. maybe.
Haha you're quite right, and that's why it's exciting for me. I'm hoping for that flash in the pan! You never know what you're gonna get from Stork in the starleagues...
you actually do, stork is probably the most predictable of all gamers, win or lose.
(sorry, but he just seems to be the most un-inventive most boring,predictable player other than that ONE game vs. flash on troy that was awesome)
:\ we must be talking about different players. The first things that pop up in my mind are Stork's semifinals vs Best last OSL and his recent game vs July. I don't think anyone went into that bo5 series knowing what Stork was going to do. Not sure you're giving the guy a fair shake at all.
Stork going gate before first cannon. Three eggs are morphing, lets see how many lings!
Stork having expanded etc etc.
SIX lings actually. Stork needs cannons and puts down two of them. infested Jaedong upgrading to lair at his natural. Snipes the probe before it can see.
I think he wanted to trick Stork into thinking he would go 3 hatch before lair.
Cannons are warping now and the lings are out. 1 is still in JD's base chasing probe. Seems the otehrs are coming back too to finish it. Yes, probe is taken out. Stork takes gas at normal timing and core right thereafter. Now transfering probes to the finished Nexus. JD is adding a spire off his quick lair. Stork adding a 3rd cannon. We're seeing 2 hatch muta then. Is stork gonna sense it? He will not be able to scout it with a probe nor a corsair in time. Stargate is warping tho and is about 1/4 on the way. JD's spire over halfway
Setting up for pure, unadulterated, no-lube macro dominance, the Sexy Zerg is adding more hatcheries, bringing him up to five. Scourge are out, and flying towards the protoss scum's base.
scourge in the air and I don't see any mutas yet. cors is out harassing, is stork gonna save it? hahaha what he does, but only cause JD mismicroes his scourge BADLY. 2 cannons in main make for a safe haven.
Seems JD is not going any mutas and is in fact on 5 hatch atm. Stork going for reavers!
Realizing that his ground army cannot hope to compete with the likes of the Tyrant, stork is getting reaver tech. Jaedong's brilliance shows through as he is getting an evolution chamber, and has many scourge.
JD is securing airspace with scourges and moving lings around. He's on 3 bases with 5 hatches. Stork is actually moving 5 zealots into his third going for some drones. The lings come in and stork didnt cease his opportuniy fast enough. he now lost all 5 zealots. Shuttle is out, but that's a lot of scourges and hydras on JD's part. Stork flies a probe to the semi-island expansion at his top left.
Wisely deciding to scout his opponent, jaedong's InfoLings, invented in Ever '07 (game 2 on fantasy II against stork), see stork's attempt to move outside his base with corsairs.
Jaedong's scourge control, the stuff of legends, kills off corsairs that dare seperate themselves from the pack. With flawless multitasking, HugeDong gets his fourth base.
So all builds revealed. JD at 5 hatch hydra with scourge and Stork going full out corsair reaver. JD is playing almost identically to what July did against BeSt in the 3rd game of the OSL finals. He's willing to put a lot of gas into scourge to keep corsair numbers down. Stork is about at critical numbers though but he loses another corsair and is now at .... 3? 2 reavers planted at natural and shuttle speed looks to be done. JD adding spore colonies and more and more and more hydras. Didn't see hydra upgrades now, but I think attack is at +1. templar archives up and ready. First 4 HTs out. Here comes a lot of hydras toward's stork's nat
The King of Zerg is showing his brutal macro, with floods of hydralisks across the map, ready to intercept any corsair foolish enough to leave te base.
Eyes burning with the lust for destruction, jaedong snipes a corsair with scourge. Hudralisks defend a storm drop with 2 drone losses--an average of 1 drone per high templar destroyed. The shuttle was also demolished, raining ashes and fire down onto the ravening hydralisks below.
Showing that he's slightly more competent than a well-trained monkey, Jaedong's opponent has macroed up an army. It's smaller than jaedong's though, because jaedong is just too good.
JD is not going for a break it seems, but rather playing hydras in a wide circle, creating a large contain perimeter around Stork's base, bent on not letting any air out.
Now he is grouping up and poking the nat, but 2 reavers and cannons there stops that hard. This reminds me of Stork vs ... Gorush? on Azalea...? Damn my memory is bad, but I have the game in mind. One of the classic corsair reaver games.
Stork getting a semi-good storm drop at JD's third, but then proceeds to be mr.cool with his reaver, flying it into the main and right back to the 3rd where hydras pop it out of the sky. Stork has been macroing well off his 2 and a half (3) bases and has a lot of zeals, some templars and a good amount of reavers. He is moving towards his 4th with the mobile (non-reaver) part of his army. Looking to make this a long macro game it seems.
A camera shot at JD's rally point shows LOOOOADS of hydras, overlords, lurkers morphing and lings. JD is not shittingn around with his "5-macro" today. Scourges a bunch of corsairs and stork is slipping, falling behind.
JD moving towards the nat, but gets eaten by storms and reavers. He's actually losing TONS of stuff while stork loses virtually nothing. That battle actually put stork in a firm lead and now a massive blob of units is moving towards JD.
Stork seems to have chosen a GREAT build for this map and opponent. He has secured a way into the midgame and is using his renowned macro to create a huge blob of units while taking a 3rd gas. JD at 4 bases, 6 hatches I think and is adding a defiler mound atm. Stork has great ,map control with zeals, goons, reaver/shuttle, HTs and archon. A really friggin strong blob
Observers maliciously sniped by the Zerg force. the Overmind is morphing a defiler den. Stork setting up his 4th base now. Many manly lots streaming out of the gates.
Calmly macroing off of four bases, the defiler mound is morphing for Jaedong. Stork may have destroyed an army, but that means nothing to someone like jaedong.
Recap: Jaedong dominates the whole game, is 110 supply vs 110 supply, then decides to get lurkers vs reavers, proceeds to throw his entire army away for no reason and dies.
Jaedong has some puny lurkers left. Engages the protoss force, but scarabs and storms are annihilating him. Corsairs go hunting for overlords now, he has too many anyway, haha!
JD still has a strong presence on the midmap highground/ramp, but he can't touch any of stork's bases atm. He's moving around now to the 4th and stork is kind of in a bad position but has LOADS of cannons at his 4th, so JD has to look for a flank instead. He's moving into a good position but those reavers are not going to budge unless scourges come in there. Stork has split 12 zealots out of his blob and attacks JD's distant 4th base while shoving the blob towards JD's third.
Stork in effin great shape atm and JD can't keep up! He is gonna lose his 4th and ANOTHER GREAT STORM takes out almost a control group of hydras. The blob is moving towards the third now and reavers are unloaded as Stork storms the droneline. JD is in a good flanking position and is maybe going to clear this blob, but so much dmg has been done and Stork is now a happy protoss with a +1 base advantage in a PvZ. The blob is taken out, but I'm guessing there's a fat army rebuilt.... yup, camera shows a big new blob coming and the reavers were kept safe and alive by an escaping shuttle. JD, JD, at 3 bases, trying to add a new 4th near his old 4th. Holding lurkers midmap with a defiler now casting swarm yet... corsairs taking out overlords. I think Stork is just sending units everywhere, not microing them very much. He doesn't have to tho and it makes him look like a sick multitasker...... which he kind of is.
The main blob has been plagued and JD is scouring observers atm. Clawing his way back almost like he did against Bisu in their first game on Andromeda last weekend.
Jaedong is showing terrible decisionmaking in the lategame. Why is his early game so much better? It's frustrating to watch how horribly he manages to throw away won games with overaggression. He could have teched ultras, gone for counter or drop or secured more bases or flanked. Funneled all of his troops down a ramp against like 10 templar and 3 Reavers? Okay.
Overmind's puppet trying to hide behind some lurkers. BUt those millions of zealots will just run over him.
tries to attack the base at 8, but fails to put down meaningful swarms. Tries sniping the nexus, scum suceeds but loses all his force to angry zealots.
I think jaedong got overconfident earlier, his first attack allowed stork to safely take his third, and now stork is just hugely outmacroing him after dropping jaedong's fourth...
It will be interesting to see if/how he comes back from this, stork has so many archons...
I'm adding huge chunks of LR rather than many and small. Trying not to clutter the thread up, hope it's better for people coming in late, trying to read the entire thing through...
Alright, so stork is mass-cannoning at a 5th base, but his army is almost exclusively zealot/archon. He needs more reavers. JD is swarming Stork's 4th and lings take out the nexus before the force is cleaned up. GOOD move by JD! Buys him another shot back into this! JD now has his 4th up but his main is mined out. Good map presence with tons of lurkers spread out as a basepoint for his hatch-rally. Stork still has a blob that can't be defeated though. Good move, placing DTs at his expansions with the cannons. Making sure no overlords are gonna come in and spot them and creating a good shield towards defiler/ling guerilla tactics
JD's nat is now also mined out, but Stork decides to set a new world record at wasted zealots into lurkers (now under swarm) If I were him, I'd get a lot more reavers right now and plow towards the rally points........ JD once again trying to do a swarm/ling guerilla at Stork's expansion (now his 5th). Stork spots it though and reaver harasses JD's 3rd base. JD now swarming at Stork's third but a big force is there to stop him.
JD scourges a shuttle (with 2 reavers probably). This could very well shape up to be like the infamous Free vs JD. there's liuke 10-11 archons in play right now and all Stork is lacking is reavers and a DA to make that blob virtually indestructable
Stork tries to stormdrop JD's third but gets like 1 drone before losing both shuttle and HTs. He's still in a commanding position and has great map presence. Is he going to complement with more reavers though?
a DA is actually in play now, hehe. No reavers to be seen though and JD keeps getting good plagues off on those pesky zealots. JD is looking to snipe the DA and does it! Bleh! fun-killer! everyone wants to see a DA in play! JD adding a 5th base (only mining from 2 atm) Stork is taking his half of the map, trying to add a 6th base (mining from 2 right now as well). Stork seems so afraid to engage and is giving JD plenty of room to claw his way back. This game could have been ended 15 mins ago with a good push, but no..
JD is playing really well, and chips away at that blob. He's not trying to go ultras like he did agaisnt Free, which is a good thing. If he tried an ultra switch now he'd be so dead. Stork JUST taking out a hatchery at JD's fresh 5th before being driven off/killed. Good strategical play from Stork, but he's being a complete wuss. JD now has a base at his semi-island running and I have to stop LRing because my girlfriend's best friend just came visiting and I hvae to be social.. later!
Stork expands right next to zerglings, with limited success. JD mining from ONE base and his min only inside his base. Bottom left still not cleared of infestation. STORMDROP AT 2, MANY DRONES DIE.
TT those news maps with a free 3rd are just a joke. Stork just camped for 10 min, macroing on 3 bases while doing some "harass" and then just moved his 150ish army into victory. just ridiculous
YOU CAN SWARM BUT YOU CANNOT HIDE. PROTOSS RUNNING HIM OVER. Nearky drop at 8, but STorms rip him up. Protoss have reached Zerg natural. Killing the Hive there.
Ok, so jaedong did some horrible mismicro at times, but still had control most of the game. Stork didn't do anything but mass archons and occasionally stormdropping. All in all, a very boring and disappointing game.
Poor mid-game engagement cost Jaedong map control. After that Stork played solidly and safely and ground out a win. What the fuck Jaedong. Where's your focus?
Fucking Stork took about 10-15 minutes more than necessary to beat Jaedong. He had it in the bag after he just raped Jaedong head on during the first clash, but was too scared of single lurkers and shit later on.
On March 06 2009 20:21 Shikyo wrote: Moral of the game: Don't fucking get Lurkers vs Reavers and then run your whole army in a single line to Protoss with 3 reavers and 15 storms.
On March 06 2009 20:21 Shikyo wrote: Moral of the game: Don't fucking get Lurkers vs Reavers and then run your whole army in a single line to Protoss with 3 reavers and 15 storms.
Eh Stork played fairly solid early game, and then let Jaedong throw the game into his hands. From then on it was the protoss's game to win. Jaedong will come back 2-1! I believe!
Well I didn't expect Stork to win this. He played better than I thought but I still felt like he needs to improve. Like having observers with your army...
On March 06 2009 20:22 Lockon Stratos wrote: ... The hell? Stork actually beat a zerg? The top zerg too, wow I'm impressed.
I'd say it was more JD beating himself than stork doing it. ;P
come on, give the guy the credit he deserves, he played super solid all game (except towards the end when he ran away asap when he heard lurker spikes), coupled with good harass and storms
In all honestly, Stork's PvZ is massively underrated these days. The only reason that his win percentage is still kind of low, is because he's played so many games. That said, jaedong screwed up horribly with that one attack, and if he didn't, he should have easily taken the game.
On March 06 2009 20:20 Simplistik wrote: Wouldn't it be ironic if JD beat Bisu only to lose to Stork?
You know Bisu would've beaten Jaedong if it were a bo3 right? It's not like stork is a bad player, I fail to see how it would be ironic. Surprising, maybe, but not ironic at all.
like was said earlier, i felt that was more jaedong playing crap early game (running into storm/rvr) that stork playing well. lets face it, his late gome was freaking horrid, it shoulda been over AGES before it was.
Well seriously, even if Stork had wanted to finish it earlier, JD didnt let him. He kept on sniping those observers and threatening the added bases. being more offensive could have resulted in losing a crucial mining base and losing his attack squad.
it's like jd always needs to lose the first game to remind himself that he actually has to think before sending his army next time. Props to stork though.
God why all the hate on Stork's PvZ. His style is very ugly and drags alot but gets the job done, that is why he was 70% winrate in 2008, too bad nobody noticed because he didnt have Zergs to play in starleagues. He is also 60+% since his games vs jaedong in ever. Stork's style is very ugly and lacks bisu's elegance but it wins games and that is what matters.
But to be serious, I think JD played that out the wrong way. Stork's major weakness in PvZ is his spotty gamesense, and bad adaptation early game. Whereas JD have such impeccable unit control. He should use more aggressive builds against Stork, so that once they reach mid game he is so far ahead that he is sure to win. Because Stork's midgame play is not worse than anyone elses, and his macro is very strong as always.
I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap.
Fuck ! Jaedong i hate you , but how could you lose to Stork ? How ? In every single game which JD plays,i want him to lose.But losing to Stork it is ... I cant take it
On March 06 2009 20:25 Aesop wrote: Well seriously, even if Stork had wanted to finish it earlier, JD didnt let him. He kept on sniping those observers and threatening the added bases. being more offensive could have resulted in losing a crucial mining base and losing his attack squad.
This. Jaedong delayed the game more than stork, trying to buy time. Everyone getting annoyed with stork for not suiciding units against lurkers he can't see and defending successfully against jaedong's harass attempts just seems to be mad at stork for winning.
On March 06 2009 20:24 Coffee wrote: like was said earlier, i felt that was more jaedong playing crap early game (running into storm/rvr) that stork playing well. lets face it, his late gome was freaking horrid, it shoulda been over AGES before it was.
Can't blame him for playing it out carefully though. Especially in a StarLeague. As I said a few pages ago, I also felt like he needed to be way more aggressive. But I guess he just wanted to avoid making Jaedong's mistakes.
obviously you're not reading well phoenix, his late game play was hot, well defensively, we're saying, if you watch the vod where he losses 24 hydra to 3 storm and a rvr was crap early game. =]
On March 06 2009 20:27 Fwmeh wrote: But to be serious, I think JD played that out the wrong way. Stork's major weakness in PvZ is his spotty gamesense, and bad adaptation early game. Whereas JD have such impeccable unit control. He should use more aggressive builds against Stork, so that once they reach mid game he is so far ahead that he is sure to win. Because Stork's midgame play is not worse than anyone elses, and his macro is very strong as always.
Dude, the game was pretty much over in the midgame. If JD just hadn't suicided his entire army the game would have been his. They were at even supply before this. JD had complete map control, denied Stork's Third and had 4 bases himself with the possibility of soon taking a fifth. All he had to do was position his army for a flank as Stork moved out.
On March 06 2009 20:23 caelym wrote: lol i love stork's method of wait until zerg is out of resources strat
Which lead to almost 80 minute games where the map becomes mined out when he could have clearly trampled his opponent by then numerous times.
Well, Stork's game might seem scared, but that's better than overextending. Jaedong - and all the top players - are known for punishing players who, being too eager to win when having a lead, overextend their forces. Although I admit, sometimes I was like "comon! why not attack that position right now!" but who am I to judge their decision making.
On March 06 2009 20:28 PhoenixShredds wrote: I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap.
He was ridiculously far ahead after denying Stork's first few attempts at a reaver/sair harass, aided by some ridiculously nicely burrowed spotter lings and whatnot. But he went ahead and massed a huge army and threw it all away by attempting to engage the nat briefly against 3 reavers and cannons, and that first engagement in the middle vs a ton of dragoons and reavers, which cost him at least half his army without damaging's Stork's army.
Moral of the story: If you are ahead dont let the opponent play like you are even. Jaedong neglectded mutas AND drops. In fact played 1 base ahead but never cared to improve his leading. Keyword: Iniciative.
how you can say jd macro and defence was bad? i can say his micro was horible this game and that cost him at end his defence was 11/10 and macro was ok
On March 06 2009 20:28 PhoenixShredds wrote: I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap.
It's true that Jaedongs play kept him in the game for a long time, and he did have excellent responses to what stork was doing. However, all his attacks were horribly mismicroed and catastrophic. His first attack was basically just suiciding half of his army in a line down a ramp, while the rest stood at home doing nothing. Defense was top-notch, attack was downright horrible.
I hope he turns it around next week (?) - I'm sick of Stork always advancing. Jaedong deserves it so much more and it would be highly disappointing if he screwed it up. At least by.hero and Luxury played well.
On March 06 2009 20:30 malongo wrote: Moral of the story: If you are ahead dont let the opponent play like you are even. Jaedong neglectded mutas AND drops. In fact played 1 base ahead but never cared to improve his leading. Keyword: Iniciative.
ah yes, MUTA AND DROP VS 7 SAIR. now that would have definately won the game for jaedong! if only he knew how to play sc, the fact is, he had the lead, decided to engage, he should have instead just played that defensive advantage and macro'd. he woulda easily won but he threw away a huge army with a weak attack.
On March 06 2009 20:28 PhoenixShredds wrote: I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap.
He was ridiculously far ahead after denying Stork's first few attempts at a reaver/sair harass, aided by some ridiculously nicely burrowed spotter lings and whatnot. But he went ahead and massed a huge army and threw it all away by attempting to engage the nat briefly against 3 reavers and cannons, and that first engagement in the middle vs a ton of dragoons and reavers, which cost him at least half his army without damaging's Stork's army.
It looked to me like the first attack should have easily been able to break Stork's natural. I don't think those Reavers could have beat that many Hydras.
On March 06 2009 20:29 Coffee wrote: obviously you're not reading well phoenix, his late game play was hot, well defensively, we're saying, if you watch the vod where he losses 24 hydra to 3 storm and a rvr was crap early game. =]
Well yeah, that was crap for JD, but I'm referring to the people more generalizing that Jaedong blew the whole game and Stork didn't earn the win. I don't like excuses is all.
What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either.
On March 06 2009 20:31 SkelA wrote: how you can say jd macro and defence was bad? i can say his micro was horible this game and that cost him at end his defence was 11/10 and macro was ok
His macro and defense certainly weren't bad, as his defense was ridiculously spot on, but instead he failed in game sense, the area where one bad mistake can swing the tide of the game, which is what happened.
On March 06 2009 20:19 Scorch wrote: Fuck this. How can Jaedong beat Bisu, only to lose to Stork right after that?
Its simple , people pissing to much at stork , but when it turns in to a macro game i expect Stork to kill almost eny opponent . Bisu doesn't have the macro of Stork he is more of a multitasking harrasing type and you can't out multitask Jaedong . Also Jaedong doesn't have the macro of July/by.hero ( he does have good macro thought ). He doesn't even have their large army control . When it comes to controling 2 - 3 groups of units Jaedong micros pretty well but when you go in to the big fights Jaedong just attack moves just like all zerg . Thats why i respect July's ZvP much more then enyones - More macro , controling at least 4 groups of units at once like its 1 control group which kills down the protoss ball and you can clean it up later with superiour macro .
If things are going this way by.hero has a pretty good chance at royal roading this OSL , his biggest threads are Jaedong and Luxury the way i see it , presuming he can take out Hwasin that is ...
Its better to control 4 - 5 groups of units and do a good damage to the protoss ball , then attack moving all your shit in to them and losing all your army ... Attack moving is only good when you know you can outmacro him .
On March 06 2009 20:28 PhoenixShredds wrote: I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap.
It's true that Jaedongs play kept him in the game for a long time, and he did have excellent responses to what stork was doing. However, all his attacks were horribly mismicroed and catastrophic. His first attack was basically just suiciding half of his army in a line down a ramp, while the rest stood at home doing nothing. Defense was top-notch, attack was downright horrible.
I'll definitely agree with that. However, Stork still deserves more credit for the win is all I'm saying.
On March 06 2009 20:28 PhoenixShredds wrote: I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap.
He was ridiculously far ahead after denying Stork's first few attempts at a reaver/sair harass, aided by some ridiculously nicely burrowed spotter lings and whatnot. But he went ahead and massed a huge army and threw it all away by attempting to engage the nat briefly against 3 reavers and cannons, and that first engagement in the middle vs a ton of dragoons and reavers, which cost him at least half his army without damaging's Stork's army.
It looked to me like the first attack should have easily been able to break Stork's natural. I don't think those Reavers could have beat that many Hydras.
Decently small choke size, plus he walked straight in, which allowed reavers to just fire away at will.
On March 06 2009 20:29 Coffee wrote: obviously you're not reading well phoenix, his late game play was hot, well defensively, we're saying, if you watch the vod where he losses 24 hydra to 3 storm and a rvr was crap early game. =]
Well yeah, that was crap for JD, but I'm referring to the people more generalizing that Jaedong blew the whole game and Stork didn't earn the win. I don't like excuses is all.
The game was practically over and JD's victory before he decided to 1. get lurkers 2. throw everything away. So that's a pretty accurate description, although the "earn the win" is pretty biased.
On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote: What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either.
You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent..
On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote: What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either.
You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent..
Lol, I'm relatively new around here, but I'm learning that pretty fast.
On March 06 2009 20:25 Aesop wrote: Well seriously, even if Stork had wanted to finish it earlier, JD didnt let him. He kept on sniping those observers and threatening the added bases. being more offensive could have resulted in losing a crucial mining base and losing his attack squad.
This. Jaedong delayed the game more than stork, trying to buy time. Everyone getting annoyed with stork for not suiciding units against lurkers he can't see and defending successfully against jaedong's harass attempts just seems to be mad at stork for winning.
the reason it played out so long is because stork didn't have any aoe defense at his 4th gas that had just gone up. jd took it out and was able to delay the game sooooo long
On March 06 2009 20:30 malongo wrote: Moral of the story: If you are ahead dont let the opponent play like you are even. Jaedong neglectded mutas AND drops. In fact played 1 base ahead but never cared to improve his leading. Keyword: Iniciative.
he traded mutas for his 4th and a better econ (notice how he made stork put up a lot of cannons). i do agree with you that he could have dropped stork though. And he never got a chance to be more than one base ahead because he lost his army...
On March 06 2009 20:28 PhoenixShredds wrote: I think it's funny how many people are saying Jaedong played horribly. After Stork had him on the ropes, it was Jaedong's excellent response that kept Stork from putting the nail in the coffin. Did they play flawlessly? No. But saying Jaedong's shitty play gave Stork the win is horse crap.
He was ridiculously far ahead after denying Stork's first few attempts at a reaver/sair harass, aided by some ridiculously nicely burrowed spotter lings and whatnot. But he went ahead and massed a huge army and threw it all away by attempting to engage the nat briefly against 3 reavers and cannons, and that first engagement in the middle vs a ton of dragoons and reavers, which cost him at least half his army without damaging's Stork's army.
it was 3 bases toss vs 4 base zerg. in terms of econ, they were about equal, but jd had map control. he was ahead, but to say ridiculously ahead is an exaggeration. it wasn't an impossible situation for stork, though he was fighting uphill
On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote: What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either.
You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent..
Lol, I'm relatively new around here, but I'm learning that pretty fast.
yeah its clearly that JD lost to the overpowered mech ... anyway besides the crappy sair control Stork was flawless
Come on guys, give a man credit where it's due. Stork played and excellent game of Starcraft here. Maybe a liiiittle too careful, but that's nothing you can blame him for.
And stop saying "Omg omg omg, Jaedong had it in the bag". Nothing was in any bag. As was mentioned earlier, Stork's economy was completely unharassed, and he was maybe half a base behind. Jaedong's failed attack is just the way PvZ works. It's really easy to waste your whole army to a few storms and some reaver shots. It could have happened anytime.
On March 06 2009 20:30 malongo wrote: Moral of the story: If you are ahead dont let the opponent play like you are even. Jaedong neglectded mutas AND drops. In fact played 1 base ahead but never cared to improve his leading. Keyword: Iniciative.
ah yes, MUTA AND DROP VS 7 SAIR. now that would have definately won the game for jaedong! if only he knew how to play sc, the fact is, he had the lead, decided to engage, he should have instead just played that defensive advantage and macro'd. he woulda easily won but he threw away a huge army with a weak attack.
If you want to argue something be civilized or stfo, obviously you have 0 strategical abilities and worse understanding of the game. The only thing you propose is that going ahead your best option is playing defensive? you didnt see jaedong vs free. Jaedong used a 2 hatch spire with no mutas, early mutas force to waste storms and delay the P, and drops are an option even against 7 corsairs when you have a scourge fleet just patrolling.
On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote: What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either.
You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent..
On March 06 2009 20:40 Mooncat wrote: Come on guys, give a man credit where it's due. Stork played and excellent game of Starcraft here. Maybe a liiiittle too careful, but that's nothing you can blame him for.
And stop saying "Omg omg omg, Jaedong had it in the bag". Nothing was in any bag. As was mentioned earlier, Stork's economy was completely unharassed, and he was maybe half a base behind. Jaedong's failed attack is just the way PvZ works. It's really easy to waste your whole army to a few storms and some reaver shots.
+1
Alright guys, I'm gonna go get some sleep. Yay for Stork.
On March 06 2009 20:32 BisuBoi wrote: What's with all the Stork hate? It's not like JD was even that far ahead. Yes, the turning point was when he tried to go in on Stork's base and got absolutely shredded, but how exactly do you fanboys figure he was way behind and JD had it in the bag? Stork's economy never got harassed once that entire game. The total sum of his losses before JD's disastrous attack was 5 zealots and some sairs. Stork safely took his min only and it was 3 bases vs 3 + 1 that just started mining. Since when is that an insurmountable advantage for zerg?
The only evidence I can see is JD keeping the sair count down?? It hardly stopped Stork's strat for the game though, because Stork obv planned to turtle until he had storms and 4-5 HTs anyway. His reaver attempt looked so half-assed and he didn't look flustered at all when it turned back with zero drone kills. It also looked like he was well aware of the zergling burrow trick (as anyone in their right mind would have seen JD doing it to Bisu in the Gom Special Event), and mostly just sent his air fleet out to screw around trying to micro/shoot down scourge LOL. It honestly looked like Stork was dicking around until he had his HTs. Sitting back on 2 gas + min only is quite alright until psi storm I would think. JD's econ was good, but it's not like Stork wasn't pumping probes 24/7 and expanding smoothly either.
You should get used to it. Every time JD lost a game his fans can find some lame excuses and do not give the credit to his opponent..
So are bisu fans too
I think you have no idea about the dicscussion topic. If you want you can compare all the LRs and you will clearly see that no one can outperform JD fans in this area.
On March 06 2009 20:30 malongo wrote: Moral of the story: If you are ahead dont let the opponent play like you are even. Jaedong neglectded mutas AND drops. In fact played 1 base ahead but never cared to improve his leading. Keyword: Iniciative.
ah yes, MUTA AND DROP VS 7 SAIR. now that would have definately won the game for jaedong! if only he knew how to play sc, the fact is, he had the lead, decided to engage, he should have instead just played that defensive advantage and macro'd. he woulda easily won but he threw away a huge army with a weak attack.
If you want to argue something be civilized or stfo, obviously you have 0 strategical abilities and worse understanding of the game. The only thing you propose is that going ahead your best option is playing defensive? you didnt see jaedong vs free. Jaedong used a 2 hatch spire with no mutas, early mutas force to waste storms and delay the P, and drops are an option even against 7 corsairs when you have a scourge fleet just patrolling.
Going mutas vs 7 sairs is not a great decision. Even if you have scourge. Comparing it to JD vs free isn't entirely accurate, because free was able to macro pretty much unmolested off of 4 gas for 10 minutes or so. In hindsight, JD probably should have spent a bit more time macroing up, and then attacked stork, instead of the disaster that did happen. He had stork nearly contained. It would not have been unwise in the slightest to sit back and macro.
it was just a retarded attack. he attacked a superior force, on a RAMP BOTTLENECK, and then when he was getting OBLITERATED he ran the rest of his units into the storm
The deciding moment of this game was when JD decided to make some sort of push against Stork's nat with hydras and lurkers and - despite attacking from above a ramp - got WTF-owned by scarabs (reavers) and storms, giving up map control to Stork, creating the opening to take down JD's 3rd.
Too bad I missed the end of the game, but by the sound of it, he just did what was postponed from 10 minutes back. GG Stork!
On March 06 2009 20:49 GinNtoniC wrote: The deciding moment of this game was when JD decided to make some sort of push against Stork's nat with hydras and lurkers and - despite attacking from above a ramp - got WTF-owned by scarabs (reavers) and storms, giving up map control to Stork, creating the opening to take down JD's 3rd.
Too bad I missed the end of the game, but by the sound of it, he just did what was postponed from 10 minutes back. GG Stork!
The JD forces at thats time cannot beat stork's force anyway even with level playing field. reavers inbetween goons and ht.
On March 06 2009 20:30 malongo wrote: Moral of the story: If you are ahead dont let the opponent play like you are even. Jaedong neglectded mutas AND drops. In fact played 1 base ahead but never cared to improve his leading. Keyword: Iniciative.
ah yes, MUTA AND DROP VS 7 SAIR. now that would have definately won the game for jaedong! if only he knew how to play sc, the fact is, he had the lead, decided to engage, he should have instead just played that defensive advantage and macro'd. he woulda easily won but he threw away a huge army with a weak attack.
If you want to argue something be civilized or stfo, obviously you have 0 strategical abilities and worse understanding of the game. The only thing you propose is that going ahead your best option is playing defensive? you didnt see jaedong vs free. Jaedong used a 2 hatch spire with no mutas, early mutas force to waste storms and delay the P, and drops are an option even against 7 corsairs when you have a scourge fleet just patrolling.
Going mutas vs 7 sairs is not a great decision. Even if you have scourge. Comparing it to JD vs free isn't entirely accurate, because free was able to macro pretty much unmolested off of 4 gas for 10 minutes or so. In hindsight, JD probably should have spent a bit more time macroing up, and then attacked stork, instead of the disaster that did happen. He had stork nearly contained. It would not have been unwise in the slightest to sit back and macro.
First its not like the 7 corsairs lived all the game. Second when the zerg IS ahead in workers+bases normally the worst option is to keep taking bases and let the opponent unmolested (here the jaedong/free game). Most of the time "nearly contained" is not enough. Jaedong never used his advantage to hurt the P economy.
The LRing tonight was really funny. I dont know how usefull it was for people who actually didn't have a stream, but for me it was hilarious. As long as the lr is acurate coloring it up is fine with me. :D
Stork's sair/reaver harass attempts bought him the time that he needed to get templars and a bigger army to take another base. Jaedong had plenty of hydras but he couldn't use them because Stork's shuttle/reaver was roaming around. Also notice that when Jaedong attacked with lurkers, hydras, and lings, he also left a part of his army back home, probably to defend against further harassment. The threat of force was all that Stork needed.
I believe Jaedong sent a few lings to Stork's new expo to draw Stork's army there, and trap them in the valley leading back to his nat, or to take the high ground outside Stork's nat. Either way, Stork moved back earlier than Jaedong could set up his units and annihilated Jaedong's army. Jaedong was still in this, but Stork sealed the deal by blocking off Jaedong's army and taking out his 4th base at 1.
Overall pretty good play by Stork. Bisu didn't charge into Jaedong's armies and bases either in their game 1 on Andromeda. He withered Jaedong slowly and only when he has secured more bases would he go for the killing blow. Of course Bisu would get praised for playing it smartly while Stork is a noob for wasting 10 minutes to kill an already dead opponent (who still has many bases and an army with many lurkers/scourge).
On March 06 2009 21:08 Divinek wrote: Yay plotoss power. Wtf hwasin I had faith in you.
Good ol' plotoss...
Sorry i had to .
Anyway my predictions got fucked, i thought Fantasy would fluke a win, and Best somehow sneak a win off his teammate, along with thinking Jaedong would win of course... Oh well i got by.hero right .
I got late for the stream and the first thing I saw was 12+ archons and 2 reavers wreaking havoc at JD's expansion.
I'm currently refreshing the vod tracker page like a madman. Wasn't expecting Stork to do anything at all but delay the inevitable and maybe take it to midgame. Not win.
Yay Stork! Don't ever doubt the bird when he has time to practice - no one has a larger gap in playing from practiced to unpracticed than Stork. Also, figured Bisu would win, Best isn't near him. Hope Hwasin wins so Stork doesn't have to face Zergs the whole way because Luxury's going to win the other half of the bracket.
He's got the ugliest PvZ ever but it actually works, and it's supremely underrated it seems. Yay that bisu won , yay that luxury won :r, the Stork outcome is great even though it was ugly and that's about it. By.Hero is becoming one of my more favorite zergs though.
On March 06 2009 22:21 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Yay Stork! Don't ever doubt the bird when he has time to practice - no one has a larger gap in playing from practiced to unpracticed than Stork. Also, figured Bisu would win, Best isn't near him. Hope Hwasin wins so Stork doesn't have to face Zergs the whole way because Luxury's going to win the other half of the bracket.
the recent games against zerg make stork pvz improve by much. I would hope he face by.hero instead.
On March 06 2009 22:37 Jayme wrote: Stork forces me to scratch my head.
He's got the ugliest PvZ ever but it actually works, and it's supremely underrated it seems. Yay that bisu won , yay that luxury won :r, the Stork outcome is great even though it was ugly and that's about it.
Stork brought back his 'safe' game plan from the past. Long time didn't see him play so safe. Recently for the past year he only attack in pvp and pvt.
On March 06 2009 20:24 CDRdude wrote: In all honestly, Stork's PvZ is massively underrated these days. The only reason that his win percentage is still kind of low, is because he's played so many games. That said, jaedong screwed up horribly with that one attack, and if he didn't, he should have easily taken the game.
lol at your live reporting, reminds me of Pravda or Xinhua or something
On March 06 2009 23:47 Zyarktodt wrote: Is By.Hero the guy that Boxer identified as the next big thing?
According to some translated interview he did call him the potential bonjwa. I think main factors are - godly APM, eliminated Bisu from osl 2-0, didn't show any nervousness in the process despite being young and new.
Guys you need to understand why stork is so strong mid-lategame pvz. He has the best large army control of any protoss. That is why his PvT is so monsterous as well. He his a brilliant battle technician with phenom macro and sometimes map abusive(not a bad thing) defensive techniques. His play style is so fucking hard to beat after the first 11-12 minutes. You can hardly blame jaedong for losing against stork. The man is always number 1 or 2 protoss in the world ....
Stork showing once again that he can throw away game after game against nobodies in the PL only to show his true skills in starleagues. The man is so good when he actually bothers to practice.
And I agree that Stork's macro and army control is incredible. He loses so many PvZs early. But if the game stays even when he breaks out of his base, Stork literally becomes ten times harder to beat.
On March 06 2009 20:24 CDRdude wrote: In all honestly, Stork's PvZ is massively underrated these days. The only reason that his win percentage is still kind of low, is because he's played so many games. That said, jaedong screwed up horribly with that one attack, and if he didn't, he should have easily taken the game.
lol at your live reporting, reminds me of Pravda or Xinhua or something
well, first of all, i have to say i enjoyed reading the LR. but i have to ask if you can be a bit more informative with it, because it kind of threw me off. it seemed like jaedong was doing better than he really was. or at least that stork was doing worse. it was enjoyable though.
as for all the stork hate, i think it stems back to stork being bm in '07 or something? at least that's how it started. though now i guess it's about him always getting 2nd. i fail to see how all of his silvers is a reason to mock him. that seems like a pretty good accomplishment to me -.- or maybe his "boring" play? watch gomtv S2 finals and tell me his play is boring. or best vs stork incruit semis. that's some of the most original, exciting pvp play in starcraft. yes, he had his proxy reaver --> carrier phase during the bacchus osl and GSI, which i admit was boring, but i blame that on maps more than anything (protoss' only and best option was carriers b4 the flash build). and i will laugh if stork 2-0's jaedong. should make for an interesting discussion about who's pvz is best....(at least i can hope)
I think CRdude and Aesop should be banned from LRing. Guys, the biased reports are funny. After a page of it. Then it gets tiresome and frustrating. I found myself looking for an ignore button below your names.
I haven't seen JD vs Stork yet but I always thought Stork had it in him to beat Jaedong in a BoX. This game sounds awfully like JD vs Kal on Colosseum. JD lost the majority of his army for nothing by funneling his army into the small choke points and getting stormed/scarabed. The only difference is that JD was doing a good job defending against Stork's reaver sair and picking the sairs off.
On March 06 2009 23:47 Zyarktodt wrote: Is By.Hero the guy that Boxer identified as the next big thing?
According to some translated interview he did call him the potential bonjwa. I think main factors are - godly APM, eliminated Bisu from osl 2-0, didn't show any nervousness in the process despite being young and new.
I'm keeping an eye on him personally. I think he could definitely go somewhere.
He's got July and Kal for ZvP advice, and Calm and Hwasin for ZvT. STX is such a great team.
On March 06 2009 23:47 Zyarktodt wrote: Is By.Hero the guy that Boxer identified as the next big thing?
According to some translated interview he did call him the potential bonjwa. I think main factors are - godly APM, eliminated Bisu from osl 2-0, didn't show any nervousness in the process despite being young and new.
I think what boxer meant is that by.hero reminds him of "that 1 player that can always beat bonjwas" because by.hero has beaten boxer, oov, and bisu in the last 6 months. not necessarily saying that he is going to be a "bonjwa" (not that its really even possible for that any more :\ ).
I really like by.hero though, but I also like hwasin It sucks that 1 has to lose
The amount of Stork haters in TL is ridiculous. Last OSL when he won, people blamed it on the lack of Z opponents even though he had to go through the entire SK roster (Best, Bisu, Fantasy). This OSL he's already faced JulyZerg and Jaedong (two excellent ZvPers) and still Stork doesn't get credit.
As for everyone complaining that Stork stalled too long at the end of the game, take a good look at what happened to Jaedong. He had a decent advantage until he blew it on a terrible attack. One battle can change the game so don't blame Stork for being overly cautious.
It's not Stork hate, people just find it more interesting to analyze what Jaedong did wrong rather than what Stork did right in general. I never saw any FU Stork, ez race imba comments.
It's strongly implied because they make it sound like Stork just sat at his base w/ reavers until JD handed him the game on a silver platter, then they call him a pussy and a retard because he "dragged the game out 15 minutes longer than necessary." As if JD just sat there with empty bases afterwards. I guess they think archons and zealots on 3 base should be able to just completely roll over a 3 gas hive zerg with lurkers all over the map. This while zerg is doing a fantastic job of sniping obs and sending constant ling/defiler attacks at Stork's expo attempts.
The problem most of the time is the game observer was awful. He kept the view on Stork's swarm of archons patrolling the map the entire time. Every time Stork had a nice storm drop harass, the obs would only catch it on the very tail end where stork was casting the storms or there were the bodies of fried drones. He also had CONSTANT zeal and DT harassment, trying to maintain map control and snipe defilers. And he got MANY of them. There's a reason his expos eventually went up, and it's not because JD was mined out or anything. JD had a LOT of gas to work with.
It seems boring because everyone considered it a done deal when the bases went to 3 vs 3 and thought it was "in the bag" for Stork. Just like they thought it was in the bag for JD in the first half of the game. I bet they'd blame JD's loss on being "too passive" if JD hadn't attacked at that moment and lost later on too. Some of these armchair generals are just never satisfied. This game was far from Stork vs GGplay
On March 07 2009 03:37 MayorITC wrote: The amount of Stork haters in TL is ridiculous. Last OSL when he won, people blamed it on the lack of Z opponents even though he had to go through the entire SK roster (Best, Bisu, Fantasy). This OSL he's already faced JulyZerg and Jaedong (two excellent ZvPers) and still Stork doesn't get credit.
As for everyone complaining that Stork stalled too long at the end of the game, take a good look at what happened to Jaedong. He had a decent advantage until he blew it on a terrible attack. One battle can change the game so don't blame Stork for being overly cautious.
QFT.
Storks great, and was not given the nick ''King Acorn'' for nothing!
I dislike Stork overall, and I have not watched the games, but I'll be the first to say that despite being a Stork "hater" I have to give him BIG props for beating Jaedong. I said before that Stork couldn't do what Bisu did, and I am being proven wrong. Congrats to Stork, Jaedong work harder!
i quite frankly dont see stork beating jaedong on SCR cause it really favors jaedong's style and doesnt support stork's macro oriented style enough, game 3 will be up to stork's creativity or he's gonna get raped
On March 07 2009 03:59 BisuBoi wrote: It's strongly implied because they make it sound like Stork just sat at his base w/ reavers until JD handed him the game on a silver platter, then they call him a pussy and a retard because he "dragged the game out 15 minutes longer than necessary." As if JD just sat there with empty bases afterwards. I guess they think archons and zealots on 3 base should be able to just completely roll over a 3 gas hive zerg with lurkers all over the map. This while zerg is doing a fantastic job of sniping obs and sending constant ling/defiler attacks at Stork's expo attempts.
The problem most of the time is the game observer was awful. He kept the view on Stork's swarm of archons patrolling the map the entire time. Every time Stork had a nice storm drop harass, the obs would only catch it on the very tail end where stork was casting the storms or there were the bodies of fried drones. He also had CONSTANT zeal and DT harassment, trying to maintain map control and snipe defilers. And he got MANY of them. There's a reason his expos eventually went up, and it's not because JD was mined out or anything. JD had a LOT of gas to work with.
It seems boring because everyone considered it a done deal when the bases went to 3 vs 3 and thought it was "in the bag" for Stork. Just like they thought it was in the bag for JD in the first half of the game. I bet they'd blame JD's loss on being "too passive" if JD hadn't attacked at that moment and lost later on too. Some of these armchair generals are just never satisfied. This game was far from Stork vs GGplay
Agreed on all counts
Also the bolded part made me laugh hard, imagining some TLer in the chair watching starcraft in a generals outfit shouting at the top of their lungs.
On March 07 2009 03:47 Avidkeystamper wrote: It's not Stork hate, people just find it more interesting to analyze what Jaedong did wrong rather than what Stork did right in general. I never saw any FU Stork, ez race imba comments.
No, much of it actually is Stork hate, there's a lot of it on TL. Sadly.
On March 07 2009 03:47 Avidkeystamper wrote: It's not Stork hate, people just find it more interesting to analyze what Jaedong did wrong rather than what Stork did right in general. I never saw any FU Stork, ez race imba comments.
No, much of it actually is Stork hate, there's a lot of it on TL. Sadly.
there was until he won the osl .. I thought most of us realized he is a big pimp after that?
On March 06 2009 20:19 Scorch wrote: Fuck this. How can Jaedong beat Bisu, only to lose to Stork right after that?
Its simple , people pissing to much at stork , but when it turns in to a macro game i expect Stork to kill almost eny opponent . Bisu doesn't have the macro of Stork he is more of a multitasking harrasing type and you can't out multitask Jaedong . Also Jaedong doesn't have the macro of July/by.hero ( he does have good macro thought ). He doesn't even have their large army control . When it comes to controling 2 - 3 groups of units Jaedong micros pretty well but when you go in to the big fights Jaedong just attack moves just like all zerg . Thats why i respect July's ZvP much more then enyones - More macro , controling at least 4 groups of units at once like its 1 control group which kills down the protoss ball and you can clean it up later with superiour macro .
If things are going this way by.hero has a pretty good chance at royal roading this OSL , his biggest threads are Jaedong and Luxury the way i see it , presuming he can take out Hwasin that is ...
Its better to control 4 - 5 groups of units and do a good damage to the protoss ball , then attack moving all your shit in to them and losing all your army ... Attack moving is only good when you know you can outmacro him .
I remember by.hero's the one that had 2000+ mineral for two thirds of the game against some terran recently.
how can ppl not see how amazing Stork's pvz style is?? He doesn't have Bisu's godly game sense and timing, he doesn't have that feeling where everything in the game just snaps into place and rapes the opponent.
But, he makes up for that with hard hard practice, solid defense, excellent mechanics, and an overall amazingly solid game. This guy is the epitomy of work-starcraft. He makes up for his total lack of understanding for pvz with hard work and with that he managed to take down the best zvp'ers in the game, and that for one amazes me.
On March 07 2009 06:32 Creationism wrote: how can ppl not see how amazing Stork's pvz style is?? He doesn't have Bisu's godly game sense and timing, he doesn't have that feeling where everything in the game just snaps into place and rapes the opponent.
But, he makes up for that with hard hard practice, solid defense, excellent mechanics, and an overall amazingly solid game. This guy is the epitomy of work-starcraft. He makes up for his total lack of understanding for pvz with hard work and with that he managed to take down the best zvp'ers in the game, and that for one amazes me.
On March 07 2009 06:32 Creationism wrote: how can ppl not see how amazing Stork's pvz style is?? He doesn't have Bisu's godly game sense and timing, he doesn't have that feeling where everything in the game just snaps into place and rapes the opponent.
But, he makes up for that with hard hard practice, solid defense, excellent mechanics, and an overall amazingly solid game. This guy is the epitomy of work-starcraft. He makes up for his total lack of understanding for pvz with hard work and with that he managed to take down the best zvp'ers in the game, and that for one amazes me.
Stork = Naruto!! Bisu = Sasuke :\
Actually, "six dragons" sounds like something out of Naruto.
On March 07 2009 06:32 Creationism wrote: how can ppl not see how amazing Stork's pvz style is?? He doesn't have Bisu's godly game sense and timing, he doesn't have that feeling where everything in the game just snaps into place and rapes the opponent.
But, he makes up for that with hard hard practice, solid defense, excellent mechanics, and an overall amazingly solid game. This guy is the epitomy of work-starcraft. He makes up for his total lack of understanding for pvz with hard work and with that he managed to take down the best zvp'ers in the game, and that for one amazes me.
I'm not sure you can definitively say that he works harder than any other progamer. Just because he has "low" apm and great results doesn't necessarily mean that he practices more, more so that it favors his style. I am sure he could play at 300+ if he really wanted to, but some people prefer to play at lower apm, and focus on micro.
how can people not say jaedong had a good lead? He had two more gas expansions and had them for a while, he just killed almost all corsairs with scourge, he was even in supply and he had hive tech.
Then he just lost alot of units while doing zero damage and one of his expansion hatcheries = gg
On March 07 2009 08:49 Jaksiel wrote: You know, for all the Protoss whining about Tears of the Moon imba, Protoss are 9-1 against Zerg on Return of the King this OSL.
Yes, and Jaedong thumbed down Medusa instead. Which at least gives you an idea of how he feels about playing here.
On March 07 2009 06:32 Creationism wrote: how can ppl not see how amazing Stork's pvz style is?? He doesn't have Bisu's godly game sense and timing, he doesn't have that feeling where everything in the game just snaps into place and rapes the opponent.
But, he makes up for that with hard hard practice, solid defense, excellent mechanics, and an overall amazingly solid game. This guy is the epitomy of work-starcraft. He makes up for his total lack of understanding for pvz with hard work and with that he managed to take down the best zvp'ers in the game, and that for one amazes me.
I'm not sure you can definitively say that he works harder than any other progamer. Just because he has "low" apm and great results doesn't necessarily mean that he practices more, more so that it favors his style. I am sure he could play at 300+ if he really wanted to, but some people prefer to play at lower apm, and focus on micro.
Maybe not, but Stork is notorious for his ability for figuring out stuff when given time. Most of the times when he loses, it's because he prepared for one thing and his opponent ended up doing something completely different. i.e. Iris and Flash both killing him with much more aggressive builds than he's used to.
As someone has pointed out, if Stork becomes much more powerful once the game enters macro phase. It was surprising Jaedong went for the macro game over a mid-game push.
I don't have anything against Stork, but if he beats Jaedong, and the final is Bisu v Stork, Stork better win. If not, then I'll have something against him.
On March 07 2009 09:08 Jaksiel wrote: I don't have anything against Stork, but if he beats Jaedong, and the final is Bisu v Stork, Stork better win. If not, then I'll have something against him.
I want Bisu to beat Stork if this happens for a fucking epic LOL akin to the their other final, which was really good.
On March 07 2009 08:49 Jaksiel wrote: You know, for all the Protoss whining about Tears of the Moon imba, Protoss are 9-1 against Zerg on Return of the King this OSL.
9-1 this OSL? I guess that means Protoss really sucked it up PvZ on RotK last season, considering those 9 wins are all of the PvZ victories on the map (meaning, they lost every PvZ last season on RotK).
On March 07 2009 08:49 Jaksiel wrote: You know, for all the Protoss whining about Tears of the Moon imba, Protoss are 9-1 against Zerg on Return of the King this OSL.
9-1 this OSL? I guess that means Protoss really sucked it up PvZ on RotK last season, considering those 9 wins are all of the PvZ victories on the map (meaning, they lost every PvZ last season on RotK).
To be fair, the 5 P's in those games were SangHo, Pure, Rock, BestGod, and Kal (who lost to Effort for what it's worth.)
On March 07 2009 08:49 Jaksiel wrote: You know, for all the Protoss whining about Tears of the Moon imba, Protoss are 9-1 against Zerg on Return of the King this OSL.
9-1 this OSL? I guess that means Protoss really sucked it up PvZ on RotK last season, considering those 9 wins are all of the PvZ victories on the map (meaning, they lost every PvZ last season on RotK).
To be fair, the 5 P's in those games were SangHo, Pure, Rock, BestGod, and Kal (who lost to Effort for what it's worth.)
well if you look at it that way the 4 wins out of 9 come from stork/bisu, so...
On March 07 2009 01:44 baubo wrote: Stork showing once again that he can throw away game after game against nobodies in the PL only to show his true skills in starleagues. The man is so good when he actually bothers to practice.
And I agree that Stork's macro and army control is incredible. He loses so many PvZs early. But if the game stays even when he breaks out of his base, Stork literally becomes ten times harder to beat.
Personally id say Storks macro is second to none. Sometimes he's fucking amazing and other times he just scrubs out.
On March 07 2009 08:42 Painbringer wrote: how can people not say jaedong had a good lead? He had two more gas expansions and had them for a while, he just killed almost all corsairs with scourge, he was even in supply and he had hive tech.
Then he just lost alot of units while doing zero damage and one of his expansion hatcheries = gg
i don't think jaedong had a good lead. i think they were about even, until jaedong had that horrible battle and lost the center+let stork take his fourth. it's not like stork lost his shuttle/reaver, or a lot of corsairs, so i don't know why you are saying jaedong had a big lead. stork had a good sair count for a long time, especially during when they mattered the most. stork's gameplan was designed to move out with that large army of templar/goon/zealot/reaver, so you can't really say either one had a lead unless 1)stork harassed really well 2)jaedong killed all of corsairs or shuttle/reaver. neither of those happened.
On March 07 2009 08:42 Painbringer wrote: how can people not say jaedong had a good lead? He had two more gas expansions and had them for a while, he just killed almost all corsairs with scourge, he was even in supply and he had hive tech.
Then he just lost alot of units while doing zero damage and one of his expansion hatcheries = gg
i don't think jaedong had a good lead. i think they were about even, until jaedong had that horrible battle and lost the center+let stork take his fourth. it's not like stork lost his shuttle/reaver, or a lot of corsairs, so i don't know why you are saying jaedong had a big lead. stork had a good sair count for a long time, especially during when they mattered the most. stork's gameplan was designed to move out with that large army of templar/goon/zealot/reaver, so you can't really say either one had a lead unless 1)stork harassed really well 2)jaedong killed all of corsairs or shuttle/reaver. neither of those happened.
Yeah the important thing to note here is jaedong has to have all those expansions to keep up, much like protoss on pvt. This is bc fundamentally the toss army gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay stronger in the midgame to late game, zeal chon temp reaver is super hard to deal with as zerg, which is y u see games like bisu vs savior in the msl where savior chose simply to never engage bisu's main army. Allowing stork to produce such an army evens out and even puts jaedong behind. Also, on those hatches, drones get wiped left and right, so yes they were up, but not always fully effective.
On March 07 2009 08:42 Painbringer wrote: how can people not say jaedong had a good lead? He had two more gas expansions and had them for a while, he just killed almost all corsairs with scourge, he was even in supply and he had hive tech.
Then he just lost alot of units while doing zero damage and one of his expansion hatcheries = gg
i don't think jaedong had a good lead. i think they were about even, until jaedong had that horrible battle and lost the center+let stork take his fourth. it's not like stork lost his shuttle/reaver, or a lot of corsairs, so i don't know why you are saying jaedong had a big lead. stork had a good sair count for a long time, especially during when they mattered the most. stork's gameplan was designed to move out with that large army of templar/goon/zealot/reaver, so you can't really say either one had a lead unless 1)stork harassed really well 2)jaedong killed all of corsairs or shuttle/reaver. neither of those happened.
Yeah the important thing to note here is jaedong has to have all those expansions to keep up, much like protoss on pvt. This is bc fundamentally the toss army gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay stronger in the midgame to late game, zeal chon temp reaver is super hard to deal with as zerg, which is y u see games like bisu vs savior in the msl where savior chose simply to never engage bisu's main army. Allowing stork to produce such an army evens out and even puts jaedong behind. Also, on those hatches, drones get wiped left and right, so yes they were up, but not always fully effective.
Well this interview agrees with me at least, was a nice fake building the lair so early with only two hatch.
How could you not say Stork was far behind? He did absolutely *no* damage with his sair reaver build. It's *extremely* important that you do some damage to slow down the zerg. Not only that but his corsairs kept getting sniped left and right. He was in a horrible position. Did you see that massive army Jaedong had? And let's not forget how easy it is for a zerg to replenish his army with zerg's awesome macro abilities. If Jaedong hadn't suicided more than half his army at that horribly small choke point the game would have been his. He had absolute map control and he was on the way to hive tech. If he had managed to get his lurkers and other units into a proper contain position, Stork might as well have just gg'd. Jeez. It's basic tactics.
Sair reaver is so horrible if a zerg can hold it off with a few cheap burrowed zerglings and scourge. He can build up his economy and then macro up his army like crazy, or he can tech and then build a wonderfully potent defiler force.
I really disliked how Jaedong responded to Stork's FE opening with just simply 2 bases. Zerg needs to be ahead of Protoss in at least 1 base, and Jaedong got his 3rd pretty late. I think economy-wise, Stork was ahead in that game because JD opt for fast lair. The bad thing is, the fast lair didn't give him any advantage.
On March 08 2009 06:38 eatmyshorts5 wrote: Jaedong was a douchebag this game. Fucking observer snipes . Oh well he did well i thought stork was screwed most the game.
I hate that shit too, but it works and takes management, and Jaedong is a pro facing a pro so he needs any edge he can get.
Well, Storks play was uninspired, haters might even call it boring but it was solid PvZ and above all- save (the last 10-15 minutes very much so). Jaedong played brilliantly, dominated the early game, was quite a bit ahead and- made this really bad mistake(s) that cost him the game. Now you can call one or the other "better" on any of those accounts, but there's still some fact to deal with: Even though few expected it, Stork won this game.
I'm suprised myself and hope for a JD advance, because it makes for more interesting games imo.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.zxk3.com/stuff/TLFE/batooomfg.jpg)
Bisu vs 
Luxury vs 
fantasy
Must have missed the update coz I'm pretty sure it said otherwise.
Massive zoom on KTY picture. It is amazing to see how Bisu moves out JUST when he deflects that harass, knowing that he will have the better position with dual Reavers in his dropship.
![[image loading]](http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7228/dfdfdfv.jpg)
(the opposite can be said for Stork though...)
![[image loading]](http://www.gameabout.com/uploads/www/news/200709070426018ad89.jpg)
, yay that luxury won :r, the Stork outcome is great even though it was ugly and that's about it. By.Hero is becoming one of my more favorite zergs though.
