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Recommended Games+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +Poll: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 1?Yes (21) 55% No (12) 32% If you have time (5) 13% 38 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 2?No (18) 72% Yes (6) 24% If you have time (1) 4% 25 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 3?Yes (21) 81% If you have time (3) 12% No (2) 8% 26 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 4?No (16) 76% Yes (5) 24% If you have time (0) 0% 21 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 4? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 5?Yes (16) 70% If you have time (4) 17% No (3) 13% 23 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 5? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 6?Yes (13) 50% No (9) 35% If you have time (4) 15% 26 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 6? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 7?If you have time (12) 52% No (6) 26% Yes (5) 22% 23 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Snow Game 7? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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On October 26 2025 22:16 barcodejester wrote:
it will be interesting to see what free win for zerg map they will come up with next season but i am willing to bet there will be one.
It is really baffling that the premier tournament uses wildly unbalanced maps that even an amateur can tell you will be a shit show.
It just separates the wheat from the chaff. If you think it is unbalanced then why was it snow's first pick? It makes no sense if you were to consider this viewpoint.
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On October 27 2025 07:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Thinking about the series. We didnt see a single defiler the whole series. Game 1 we saw Guardians from Soma.proly the only hive tech that was used the whole series. Im not even sure he did adrenaline.
yep
same with soma vs bisu, never went to late
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On October 27 2025 06:14 Uldridge wrote:
Soma displaying quintessential Zerg play here. Absolute hyperaggression and no fear. Insane.
He macros like no other, doesn't give a fuck about losing units for his set priorities and just sweeps house. What a monster.
As long as Protoss can't find an answer to his hydra/muta tech bamboozling, he'll just keep doing it. Your move Protoss.
Only thing I'm a little sour on is that we see less unit variation, but that's all.
It is like the most boring players get the furthest in the tournament and people are angry for the wrong reasons.
True? Brilliant. Went the shortest.
Mini? Spectacular for a protoss. Next in line.
Larva? Stunning. He went queens before defilers, even. Couldn't take a standard protoss.
Bisu? Magnificent, though irregular at times.
Snow? Everybody loves him. I think love triumps results, so he better win they hope.
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On October 27 2025 05:58 TMNT wrote:
Jeez this dude just going through the whole thread to reply to everyone
Look, I know you are prejudiced, but looking at it from my perspective, you cannot overlook no one has anything substantial to come up with on my rapid fire posts, you should know I assume it is because I stand convicted that I am right.
I think this tourney system is the cause and effect of what we are seeing. Like I said a few posts back, Soulkey loses two games in Ro4 and grants two title victories to Royal and JyJ. I think this is what we should discuss rather than whether soma deserved to win because what is done is done.
If we do that, maybe we can discuss a points based system to determine this season's winner, rather than who granted a finals pass to the title to whom like it is today.
I want protoss to win just as anybody.
PS: let's assume barracks played soma and bisu played snow. We could easily see a snow win. If you think this is fair, don't change a thing.
User was warned for this post
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On October 27 2025 07:27 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
JYJ and Royal winning ASL shows to you that luck is also so important for this kind of tournament lol. Jesus i havent seen JYJ in proleagues or anything really since he won the ASL. And Royal idk if it is the maps that just dont favour him no more or what but the guy is really mid these days. And i cant help but thinking how neither Soma or Snow sneak an ASL win those seasons is unreal.
Btw After 4 seasons of SK domination i can see the fatigue of zerg winning. I still advocate for standard maps and not make it harder for zerg cuz ladder is hell already lol.
Royal played zero protosses; JYJ played just one (2 games against Stork in the ro24, he went 1-1).
Both had an insane level of bracket luck to win. If Snow only had to play PvP and PvT he’d prob have at least ASLs. Best probably would’ve snagged one too. Bisu not so sure. His PvT can be a bit shaky.
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PvZ is so broken.
Soma is a hydra bust noob also
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SnOw didn't show up, unfortunately. soma did. gg anyway
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On October 27 2025 01:46 G5 wrote:
Also, I agree with Bonyth when he says he doesn't understand how Protoss can underperform (specifically vs Zerg) throughout the history of a 25+ year old game and people still say it's a player skill reason as to why they're failing vs Zerg. Like all Protoss players are just morons and bad players and can't figure shit out.
Map makers have honestly never made life easier for Protoss players against Zergs, with wallable naturals on basically every map etc. and Protoss players still by in large fail.
Updated since my ASL 17 post:
In the history of BW starleagues (MSL, OSL, ASL), protoss has won 17 finals, terran 34, and zerg 30 (including ASL 20).
If you look at results from just the past 20 years, protoss has won 10 (3 in ASL), terran 26 (8 in ASL) and zerg 30 (9 in ASL)
ZvP finals results: 12:2
The two protoss finals wins vs zerg were in 2000 (Garimto beat Skelton) and 2006/7 (Bisu beat Savior).
LOL
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In the likely absence of any balance changes, I wonder if what might work would be matchup-specific map pools - so you could find the few maps that are balanced for ZvP and only use those ones for that matchup, without having to worry about how they affect Terran. This would require banning Random but that seems like a small price to pay given how rare it is.
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On October 27 2025 07:23 mtcn77 wrote:Do you want an honest answer? Because I'm going to give an honest answer if this isn't one of those echo chamber balance whines.
Yes, I really would like to know
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On October 27 2025 09:18 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2025 01:46 G5 wrote:
Also, I agree with Bonyth when he says he doesn't understand how Protoss can underperform (specifically vs Zerg) throughout the history of a 25+ year old game and people still say it's a player skill reason as to why they're failing vs Zerg. Like all Protoss players are just morons and bad players and can't figure shit out.
Map makers have honestly never made life easier for Protoss players against Zergs, with wallable naturals on basically every map etc. and Protoss players still by in large fail.
Updated since my ASL 17 post: In the history of BW starleagues (MSL, OSL, ASL), protoss has won 17 finals, terran 34, and zerg 30 (including ASL 20). If you look at results from just the past 20 years, protoss has won 10 (3 in ASL), terran 26 (8 in ASL) and zerg 30 (9 in ASL) ZvP finals results: 12:2 The two protoss finals wins vs zerg were in 2000 (Garimto beat Skelton) and 2006/7 (Bisu beat Savior).LOL
The same finals where bisu invented corsair dt. I think the question is why protosses haven't moved on a bit from 2006.
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Whining about weather is so stupid, especially because there is nothing you can do about it. But whining about balance over a video game... it's so poetically retarded it's.... TMNTful
User was warned for this post
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On October 27 2025 09:23 gravity wrote:
In the likely absence of any balance changes, I wonder if what might work would be matchup-specific map pools - so you could find the few maps that are balanced for ZvP and only use those ones for that matchup, without having to worry about how they affect Terran. This would require banning Random but that seems like a small price to pay given how rare it is.
There's no downside to this, but what should have been done 10 years ago will never be done now, because BW is run by Koreans and ASL is single-handedly run by one guy who was a Terran ex-pro.
In addition, ASL is the playing field of the same group of 16-32 players whose main job is streamer. The winners will be happy for a few days and the losers will be upset for a few days but ultimately what they care most now, especially since they're all in their mid-30s, is how many balloons they gather each month from their stream. There's simply not enough motivation to make such a radical change like that.
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On October 27 2025 09:40 SCRVN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2025 07:23 mtcn77 wrote:Do you want an honest answer? Because I'm going to give an honest answer if this isn't one of those echo chamber balance whines. Yes, I really would like to know
+ Show Spoiler +
1. map: zerg gets all 4 ground bases while protoss makes reaver, then ground army and gets the island. It should all be in reverse. Protoss should get all 4 ground bases and take out zerg's ground bases, not like moving out and retreating at the bridge like snow did.
2. map: FE build order auto defeat. You cannot win from this. Protoss and early map control are one and the same. Notice soma didn't even make mutas. Zerg has overlords, let them slowly crawl into your space. Do not give them map control like snow did AND 6 zealot 1 corsair gifts that do nothing in the early game. You know a random expo takes only 400 minerals? In a map like dominator, there is zero chance zerg can scout every main. Use your map control advantage. A random expo takes 75 seconds to make the nexus, 100.8 seconds 8 probes, 52 seconds thereafter to break even. Don't tell me you cannot hide a base for 52 seconds, once it has been operational.
3. map is a victory, so I'll pass.
4. map: again FE build order auto loss after giving full scout at 3 minutes while snow having zero scouting info at 3, or 8 minutes, apart from 6 minutes with a corsair. You cannot recover from giving full map control to zerg when you are cross spawn giving full flow of information in zerg control. Force zerg to make mutalisks, force them to make lurkers. Hit them with a bigger ground army. None were present in the game.
5. map: is again a victory, so I'll pass.
6. map: by this point soma is so much in control, he even stops FE making an early economy win for protoss by stopping early mining.
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On October 27 2025 07:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Thinking about the series. We didnt see a single defiler the whole series. Game 1 we saw Guardians from Soma.proly the only hive tech that was used the whole series. Im not even sure he did adrenaline.
I think this is probably why the series felt so bland.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51094 Posts
honestly people be civil and don't spam quotes. you can respond to multiple people in the same post.
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On October 27 2025 10:48 mtcn77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2025 09:40 SCRVN wrote:On October 27 2025 07:23 mtcn77 wrote:Do you want an honest answer? Because I'm going to give an honest answer if this isn't one of those echo chamber balance whines. Yes, I really would like to know + Show Spoiler +
1. map: zerg gets all 4 ground bases while protoss makes reaver, then ground army and gets the island. It should all be in reverse. Protoss should get all 4 ground bases and take out zerg's ground bases, not like moving out and retreating at the bridge like snow did.
2. map: FE build order auto defeat. You cannot win from this. Protoss and early map control are one and the same. Notice soma didn't even make mutas. Zerg has overlords, let them slowly crawl into your space. Do not give them map control like snow did AND 6 zealot 1 corsair gifts that do nothing in the early game. You know a random expo takes only 400 minerals? In a map like dominator, there is zero chance zerg can scout every main. Use your map control advantage. A random expo takes 75 seconds to make the nexus, 100.8 seconds 8 probes, 52 seconds thereafter to break even. Don't tell me you cannot hide a base for 52 seconds, once it has been operational.
3. map is a victory, so I'll pass.
4. map: again FE build order auto loss after giving full scout at 3 minutes while snow having zero scouting info at 3, or 8 minutes, apart from 6 minutes with a corsair. You cannot recover from giving full map control to zerg when you are cross spawn giving full flow of information in zerg control. Force zerg to make mutalisks, force them to make lurkers. Hit them with a bigger ground army. None were present in the game.
5. map: is again a victory, so I'll pass.
6. map: by this point soma is so much in control, he even stops FE making an early economy win for protoss by stopping early mining.
I don't think you are better than SnOw, why he didn't know what you know?
The weak point of Protoss can't cover all build order from Zerg. It's not SnOw's fault. soma lost all lings, still won; SnOw lost all zealots, lost; soma has no info, still won; SnOw has no info, lost.
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On October 27 2025 13:01 SCRVN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2025 10:48 mtcn77 wrote:On October 27 2025 09:40 SCRVN wrote:On October 27 2025 07:23 mtcn77 wrote:Do you want an honest answer? Because I'm going to give an honest answer if this isn't one of those echo chamber balance whines. Yes, I really would like to know + Show Spoiler +
1. map: zerg gets all 4 ground bases while protoss makes reaver, then ground army and gets the island. It should all be in reverse. Protoss should get all 4 ground bases and take out zerg's ground bases, not like moving out and retreating at the bridge like snow did.
2. map: FE build order auto defeat. You cannot win from this. Protoss and early map control are one and the same. Notice soma didn't even make mutas. Zerg has overlords, let them slowly crawl into your space. Do not give them map control like snow did AND 6 zealot 1 corsair gifts that do nothing in the early game. You know a random expo takes only 400 minerals? In a map like dominator, there is zero chance zerg can scout every main. Use your map control advantage. A random expo takes 75 seconds to make the nexus, 100.8 seconds 8 probes, 52 seconds thereafter to break even. Don't tell me you cannot hide a base for 52 seconds, once it has been operational.
3. map is a victory, so I'll pass.
4. map: again FE build order auto loss after giving full scout at 3 minutes while snow having zero scouting info at 3, or 8 minutes, apart from 6 minutes with a corsair. You cannot recover from giving full map control to zerg when you are cross spawn giving full flow of information in zerg control. Force zerg to make mutalisks, force them to make lurkers. Hit them with a bigger ground army. None were present in the game.
5. map: is again a victory, so I'll pass.
6. map: by this point soma is so much in control, he even stops FE making an early economy win for protoss by stopping early mining.
I don't think you are better than SnOw, why he didn't know what you know? The weak point of Protoss can't cover all build order from Zerg. It's not SnOw's fault. soma lost all lings, still won; SnOw lost all zealots, lost; soma has no info, still won; SnOw has no info, lost.
Okay, you got me. I really believed you would have listened for once. I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Which brings me: you know, 1 stargate 1 corsair is the same amount of gas as a templar archive? I'm sure first corsair is as game breaking as having proper aoe.
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United States10509 Posts
On October 27 2025 13:33 mtcn77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2025 13:01 SCRVN wrote:On October 27 2025 10:48 mtcn77 wrote:On October 27 2025 09:40 SCRVN wrote:On October 27 2025 07:23 mtcn77 wrote:Do you want an honest answer? Because I'm going to give an honest answer if this isn't one of those echo chamber balance whines. Yes, I really would like to know + Show Spoiler +
1. map: zerg gets all 4 ground bases while protoss makes reaver, then ground army and gets the island. It should all be in reverse. Protoss should get all 4 ground bases and take out zerg's ground bases, not like moving out and retreating at the bridge like snow did.
2. map: FE build order auto defeat. You cannot win from this. Protoss and early map control are one and the same. Notice soma didn't even make mutas. Zerg has overlords, let them slowly crawl into your space. Do not give them map control like snow did AND 6 zealot 1 corsair gifts that do nothing in the early game. You know a random expo takes only 400 minerals? In a map like dominator, there is zero chance zerg can scout every main. Use your map control advantage. A random expo takes 75 seconds to make the nexus, 100.8 seconds 8 probes, 52 seconds thereafter to break even. Don't tell me you cannot hide a base for 52 seconds, once it has been operational.
3. map is a victory, so I'll pass.
4. map: again FE build order auto loss after giving full scout at 3 minutes while snow having zero scouting info at 3, or 8 minutes, apart from 6 minutes with a corsair. You cannot recover from giving full map control to zerg when you are cross spawn giving full flow of information in zerg control. Force zerg to make mutalisks, force them to make lurkers. Hit them with a bigger ground army. None were present in the game.
5. map: is again a victory, so I'll pass.
6. map: by this point soma is so much in control, he even stops FE making an early economy win for protoss by stopping early mining.
I don't think you are better than SnOw, why he didn't know what you know? The weak point of Protoss can't cover all build order from Zerg. It's not SnOw's fault. soma lost all lings, still won; SnOw lost all zealots, lost; soma has no info, still won; SnOw has no info, lost. Okay, you got me. I really believed you would have listened for once. I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Which brings me: you know, 1 stargate 1 corsair is the same amount of gas as a templar archive? I'm sure first corsair is as game breaking as having proper aoe.
Congratulations, you made a BUILDING and mutas are now flying into your base and you have no stargate to make corsairs. Or even if you made the templar, there's something called MICRO where the mutalisks move out from under storm even if you hit it right on them. But I suppose hoping for your Zerg opponent to momentarily lose all motor functions or have their mouse disconnect is about the best strategy for Protoss to reliably beat Zerg these days.
Idk, call all the pro Protoss players stupid, but maybe... just maybe, that corsair and stargate are useful for something.
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EPT
