|
Recommended Games+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 1?No (15) 56% If you have time (9) 33% Yes (3) 11% 27 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 2?Yes (43) 96% No (2) 4% If you have time (0) 0% 45 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 3?Yes (24) 89% If you have time (3) 11% No (0) 0% 27 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 4?Yes (9) 47% If you have time (8) 42% No (2) 11% 19 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 4? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 5?Yes (31) 89% If you have time (3) 9% No (1) 3% 35 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 5? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 6?Yes (25) 89% If you have time (2) 7% No (1) 4% 28 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 6? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 7?No (29) 71% Yes (10) 24% If you have time (2) 5% 41 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 7? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
|
On October 17 2025 15:18 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 08:59 mtcn77 wrote:On October 17 2025 08:42 Ze'ev wrote:On October 17 2025 07:42 mtcn77 wrote:On October 17 2025 04:48 Ze'ev wrote:
Honestly anyone whos played island maps and reached late game air compositions was 100% expecting bisu to get face rolled. you cant beat late game zerg with with sair and like 5 carriers. you need d.a, arbiter...you need to pray to god, frankly. if zerg reaches late game in an even footing with protoss in an air scenario, the game is all but over already. Yes, honestly I cannot understand this along with the death valley game last season in which Soulkey rolled over snow. I cannot tell if people expect miracles, or don't know the mechanics of the game and expect odds to be in their favourite player's favour. People often think there engaging in critical thinking when there just repeating shallow mantras. "Protoss is favoured on island maps!" was the line that created that map. I was also under the spell watching the qualifying stages. I honestly blame the casters for purporting false narratives. It took me until the tournament proper to see how wrong an assumption it was, but I'm all for that map. I think it being a zerg map is also false. No, it is just a super greedy map with odds in favour of anybody who plays ultra greedy. Personally I like it since pros take super unnecessary risks for FE which I hate. Yeah its not a Zerg map, zergs had not lost a single official game on it, but similarly to Death Valley it shows that they are just superior players
I wised up in between speed vs hero and larva vs light. I don't know if it is early or not, but there really hasn't been matches on roaring currents (in the qualifiers I mean) although casters cast a dark shadow on the map.
|
Bisu choked so hard on Roaring Currents, wtf was he doing man. He had 2 reavers sitting in his base the whole game when Soma took the expansions outside his base.
|
On October 15 2025 19:34 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2025 16:55 Soft_General_5023 wrote:On October 15 2025 16:15 Kyle8 wrote:
What is Snow vs Soma h2h record in recent weeks? Soma has 173 wins, 111 losses vs Snow "all time" according to eloboard. Since he came back from military in July it's pretty much even 21 wins 22 losses Soma is still favorite to win though imo. If Soma tries to play slow and invites Snow into the late-game I think he will have some serious trouble. IMO, if a Zerg reaches the finals against a P that is not a true strategist (so basically only in-shape Rain from the current era) he should play a complete bait-and-switch/all-in style. There is no point in dragging games out (unless it's a weird game state or a bizarre map). Most P's that will ever reach a final are competent enough to go 50/50 over Zergs in long games, simply letting them get there is unnecessary risk. I say this because of the added pressure of the finals, a Zerg that completely goes spastic is a terrible matchup for a P that just tries to get a grip of the series for most of the time. I think Soma will do this anyway but just stating the obvious here.
I think Snow has a realistic shot, Soma is good but he's no Soulkey, you're right if that Snow manages to survive Soma's early-mid game aggression he should be favoured in the late game. Will be an amazing series.
|
On October 17 2025 16:15 Dante08 wrote:
Bisu choked so hard on Roaring Currents, wtf was he doing man. He had 2 reavers sitting in his base the whole game when Soma took the expansions outside his base.
This is a bad read. Those 2 Reavers are all the ground army he had lol. You can use 2 Reavers to grab some Drones and run, you can't use them to fight mass Hydra. Plus, they're there to defend potential doom drop.
Watch more games on this map and you'll realise when P go full skytoss on this map, they have to give up all the land for Z. You can't have enough to control both air AND land. Ideally it'll be 5 base P (3 bottom islands) vs 7 base Z (1 top island) and you fight until one side runs out of steam.
|
On October 17 2025 04:48 Ze'ev wrote:
Honestly anyone whos played island maps and reached late game air compositions was 100% expecting bisu to get face rolled. you cant beat late game zerg with with sair and like 5 carriers. you need d.a, arbiter...you need to pray to god, frankly. if zerg reaches late game in an even footing with protoss in an air scenario, the game is all but over already.
Nah in this case it was just Bisu.
Seriously he basically just A-clicked vs airzerg and completely assuming that carrier+sair beats whatever zerg throws without issue like even ground to ground pvz you dont even do that.
Clearly when storm was introduced into the equation in later parts of the match things looked different cause zerg mass air could not just engage when you add spellcasters into it but it was a little too late cause Bisu lost all his expansions and zerg has too much
Soma was just the better player and Bisu just did not look for other solution
But clearly semi-island maps are starting to shake up things. Players building units they'd never build before and do strats they would never do before
On October 16 2025 23:51 prosatan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2025 23:45 goody153 wrote:
Snow vs Soma is like the ideal finals. They both havent won an ASL, right ? It's basically perfect the considered strongest player of the season and them fighting for their first ASL championship yeap, they haven't won so far an ASL trophy!
It's the ideal finals tbqh and somehow the expected one. Although I think I favor Soma here cause he is waaaaaaaay better at zvp than snow is at pvz
That said I really wanted snow to win
|
^ why Larva won a game by the opposite way in the map?
Carrier + Corsair is immortal in PvZ, PvT. BTW on island maps, players take more bases than opponent who usually lose games because of difference between p/p build/mine/defend and attack price.
|
I think Protoss has to adopt the Zerg's mindset on Roaring Currents: camp more, let them take that base, we'll reclaim it later.
Bisu should have delayed Carrier production for a bit to get storm up, and load the HTs in Shuttles to protect them from Hydras during fights. It will delay his move out timing with Carriers, but maybe it's worth it.
But obviously I'm just talking out of my ass and the game may still play out badly for P, either because of the delayed move out that lets Zerg grow too big, or that P can't afford both Carriers and HTs at the same time. We need to see more to know.
|
^ P can do it. Look at PvT with Carrier + HT vs Goliath, Carrier + Corsair vs Wraith.
|
So how comes no a single person has wondered why bisu never used reaver support when he was attacking one of Soma expansion with Sair dweb + Carrier ? i feel like by doing that the attack would have been way more tedious for Soma. And is not like he was in Danger at home to never use reavers outside his natural.
|
On October 17 2025 21:08 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
So how comes no a single person has wondered why bisu never used reaver support when he was attacking one of Soma expansion with Sair dweb + Carrier ? i feel like by doing that the attack would have been way more tedious for Soma. And is not like he was in Danger at home to never use reavers outside his natural.
Roaring Currents map coastal expansions have lower economy. If you stay ground side by the late game your minerals run out. Even the islands are 1200/4000. There are no regular expansions, so game sends you in a specific direction.
Why bisu spent it all on carriers is anyone's guess. Devourers have +2 armor, by the time zerg has devourers, all it needs to do is unstack its devourers and protoss with however many corsairs it has has to take devourers one by one. The +2 armor makes that engagement super slow, it is not like the early game where corsairs can one shot a stack of mutas. Carriers, too. Personally I think bisu didn't expect zerg to turtle by going air, but air is the best defence zerg has if you don't make mass archons.
|
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment.
|
On October 17 2025 21:33 Bonyth wrote:
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment.
What are you suggesting? Devourers are going to 9 shot any target they go after, you can't hide. Acid spores have 2*2 spread. Corsair neutron flare has 3*3 spread, however %50 AoE is 1.5*1.5. %25 AoE is below devourer armor dps. I said this before. Just want to clarify, I don't understand your point.
Oh, I got how I should say this so you guys can understand: bisu got wrapped in his own image persona. Since he is the first corsair protoss, he got caught fighting island map with his style. I called again and again you cannot win this map with how air protoss plays out, this is the landmark unit bisu couldn't back out off. This is what I meant all this time "protoss needs to play like at the beginning of the millenium." You make archons and corsairs are not the primary air defence.
|
Netherlands5354 Posts
If anything, not getting Arbiter late game when resources are vast and flyers are involved is just dumb.
|
On October 17 2025 21:47 mtcn77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 21:33 Bonyth wrote:
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment. What are you suggesting? Devourers are going to 9 shot any target they go after, you can't hide. Acid spores have 2*2 spread. Corsair neutron flare has 3*3 spread, however %50 AoE is 1.5*1.5. %25 AoE is below devourer armor dps. I said this before. Just want to clarify, I don't understand your point. Oh, I got how I should say this so you guys can understand: bisu got wrapped in his own image persona. Since he is the first corsair protoss, he got caught fighting island map with his style. I called again and again you cannot win this map with how air protoss plays out, this is the landmark unit bisu couldn't back out off. This is what I meant all this time "protoss needs to play like at the beginning of the millenium." You make archons and corsairs are not the primary air defence.
protoss is not obliged to make the life easy for zerg by stacking all corsairs in 1 place together
|
Netherlands5354 Posts
|
On October 17 2025 22:22 Bonyth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 21:47 mtcn77 wrote:On October 17 2025 21:33 Bonyth wrote:
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment. What are you suggesting? Devourers are going to 9 shot any target they go after, you can't hide. Acid spores have 2*2 spread. Corsair neutron flare has 3*3 spread, however %50 AoE is 1.5*1.5. %25 AoE is below devourer armor dps. I said this before. Just want to clarify, I don't understand your point. Oh, I got how I should say this so you guys can understand: bisu got wrapped in his own image persona. Since he is the first corsair protoss, he got caught fighting island map with his style. I called again and again you cannot win this map with how air protoss plays out, this is the landmark unit bisu couldn't back out off. This is what I meant all this time "protoss needs to play like at the beginning of the millenium." You make archons and corsairs are not the primary air defence. protoss is not obliged to make the life easy for zerg by stacking all corsairs in 1 place together
Even if you spread, 9 devourers(let's take the bare minimum we both know there were at least 12) can spread too and if you A+ move, you have a 18*2 spread on however many corsairs you might have. This isn't like corsairs I told you which you have to attack in a 1.5*1.5 cone in order to put a dent in devourers' hp.
|
regardless of how imba these island and semi island maps are... they definitely create some of the most fun and memorable games of each tournament.
|
On October 17 2025 19:00 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 16:15 Dante08 wrote:
Bisu choked so hard on Roaring Currents, wtf was he doing man. He had 2 reavers sitting in his base the whole game when Soma took the expansions outside his base. This is a bad read. Those 2 Reavers are all the ground army he had lol. You can use 2 Reavers to grab some Drones and run, you can't use them to fight mass Hydra. Plus, they're there to defend potential doom drop. Watch more games on this map and you'll realise when P go full skytoss on this map, they have to give up all the land for Z. You can't have enough to control both air AND land. Ideally it'll be 5 base P (3 bottom islands) vs 7 base Z (1 top island) and you fight until one side runs out of steam.
Then why build the reavers? He could have at least used them to harass or join the main fight. Soma brought his hydras to fight whenever he could but Bisu just attacked randomly with only air units. Not saying he would have won but those reavers could have been really helpful in some of the fights.
|
On October 17 2025 23:12 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 19:00 TMNT wrote:On October 17 2025 16:15 Dante08 wrote:
Bisu choked so hard on Roaring Currents, wtf was he doing man. He had 2 reavers sitting in his base the whole game when Soma took the expansions outside his base. This is a bad read. Those 2 Reavers are all the ground army he had lol. You can use 2 Reavers to grab some Drones and run, you can't use them to fight mass Hydra. Plus, they're there to defend potential doom drop. Watch more games on this map and you'll realise when P go full skytoss on this map, they have to give up all the land for Z. You can't have enough to control both air AND land. Ideally it'll be 5 base P (3 bottom islands) vs 7 base Z (1 top island) and you fight until one side runs out of steam. Then why build the reavers? He could have at least used them to harass or join the main fight. Soma brought his hydras to fight whenever he could but Bisu just attacked randomly with only air units. Not saying he would have won but those reavers could have been really helpful in some of the fights.
He made a similar comparison in proleague which went between hero and bisu. Ironically, that time both the zerg and the protoss misread the map. Hero made mutas - lost them all - then made hydralisks and lost them all again during a main bust. Bisu defended with reavers which sat in base however that time hydralisks made them artificially useful.
|
On October 17 2025 21:33 Bonyth wrote:
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment. That aint the consequence of micro; I've never seen that amount of devourer/muta/scourge do anything but faceroll an army of bisu's size. Corsairs get dusted by devourer/muta.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
