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Recommended Games+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 1?No (14) 54% If you have time (9) 35% Yes (3) 12% 26 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 1? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 2?Yes (42) 95% No (2) 5% If you have time (0) 0% 44 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 2? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 3?Yes (23) 88% If you have time (3) 12% No (0) 0% 26 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 4?Yes (9) 50% If you have time (7) 39% No (2) 11% 18 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 4? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 5?Yes (29) 88% If you have time (3) 9% No (1) 3% 33 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 5? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 6?Yes (25) 93% No (1) 4% If you have time (1) 4% 27 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 6? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 7?No (29) 73% Yes (9) 23% If you have time (2) 5% 40 total votes Your vote: Recommend Soma vs Bisu Game 7? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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On October 18 2025 00:03 Ze'ev wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 21:33 Bonyth wrote:
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment. That aint the consequence of micro; I've never seen that amount of devourer/muta/scourge do anything but faceroll an army of bisu's size. Corsairs get dusted by devourer/muta.
I think once zerg gets that size of an air army, protoss is helpless without spellcaster support from HTs/DAs.
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On October 18 2025 00:24 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2025 00:03 Ze'ev wrote:On October 17 2025 21:33 Bonyth wrote:
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment. That aint the consequence of micro; I've never seen that amount of devourer/muta/scourge do anything but faceroll an army of bisu's size. Corsairs get dusted by devourer/muta. I think once zerg gets that size of an air army, protoss is helpless without spellcaster support from HTs/DAs. Agreed!
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On October 18 2025 00:24 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2025 00:03 Ze'ev wrote:On October 17 2025 21:33 Bonyth wrote:
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment. That aint the consequence of micro; I've never seen that amount of devourer/muta/scourge do anything but faceroll an army of bisu's size. Corsairs get dusted by devourer/muta. I think once zerg gets that size of an air army, protoss is helpless without spellcaster support from HTs/DAs.
Weird, some people don't see it that way.
If I were smarter, I could probably tell what is going on with last season's death valley, but it seems roaring currents is pretty cut and dried to me.
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On October 17 2025 23:12 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 19:00 TMNT wrote:On October 17 2025 16:15 Dante08 wrote:
Bisu choked so hard on Roaring Currents, wtf was he doing man. He had 2 reavers sitting in his base the whole game when Soma took the expansions outside his base. This is a bad read. Those 2 Reavers are all the ground army he had lol. You can use 2 Reavers to grab some Drones and run, you can't use them to fight mass Hydra. Plus, they're there to defend potential doom drop. Watch more games on this map and you'll realise when P go full skytoss on this map, they have to give up all the land for Z. You can't have enough to control both air AND land. Ideally it'll be 5 base P (3 bottom islands) vs 7 base Z (1 top island) and you fight until one side runs out of steam. Then why build the reavers? He could have at least used them to harass or join the main fight. Soma brought his hydras to fight whenever he could but Bisu just attacked randomly with only air units. Not saying he would have won but those reavers could have been really helpful in some of the fights.
To defend the main and nat in the earlier phase of the game when Carriers are not out yet, and the islands in the later phase. Isn't that obvious? The Reavers served their purpose. At that point in the game they're not that useful anymore. Visit the proleague thread and see the Mini vs Queen game on this map on 15 Oct to see the importance of the reavers during that phase. Since Protoss rushes for Carriers, Reavers are the only defence they have against Hydra bust.
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On October 18 2025 03:08 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 23:12 Dante08 wrote:On October 17 2025 19:00 TMNT wrote:On October 17 2025 16:15 Dante08 wrote:
Bisu choked so hard on Roaring Currents, wtf was he doing man. He had 2 reavers sitting in his base the whole game when Soma took the expansions outside his base. This is a bad read. Those 2 Reavers are all the ground army he had lol. You can use 2 Reavers to grab some Drones and run, you can't use them to fight mass Hydra. Plus, they're there to defend potential doom drop. Watch more games on this map and you'll realise when P go full skytoss on this map, they have to give up all the land for Z. You can't have enough to control both air AND land. Ideally it'll be 5 base P (3 bottom islands) vs 7 base Z (1 top island) and you fight until one side runs out of steam. Then why build the reavers? He could have at least used them to harass or join the main fight. Soma brought his hydras to fight whenever he could but Bisu just attacked randomly with only air units. Not saying he would have won but those reavers could have been really helpful in some of the fights. To defend the main and nat in the earlier phase of the game when Carriers are not out yet, and the islands in the later phase. Isn't that obvious? The Reavers served their purpose. At that point in the game they're not that useful anymore. Visit the proleague thread and see the Mini vs Queen game on this map on 15 Oct to see the importance of the reavers during that phase. Since Protoss rushes for Carriers, Reavers are the only defence they have against Hydra bust.
That circumvents the question. Reavers are an unnecessary tech tree when going air. Even corsair reaver stopped being relevant back in 2000s. The question is limited duration until zerg can go air. You are trying to stop it, just like against terran you are trying to stop them getting a fourth expansion, or the other main. You are lucky against zerg because it takes 248s until zerg can research drop upgrades. However that is not time you can spend on unnecessary tech trees. Zerg also has the option to expand more. Even if you are on similar economy, the idea zerg can turtle and start doing what soma did in that game should scare you. You have to bring the fight to the zerg and bring it fast, or you won't catch zerg off guard. It won't happen with FEs when you relinquish total map control to zerg, zerg will only be emboldened by it and it won't happen with slow tech. Protoss players might be trying too hard to be perfectionists. Yes, zerg will dive at your army with mutalisks and try to hunt HTs. I said make archons and just weather zerg skirmishes until you can march on zerg creep, then your army will pay off. Nothing zerg has by this point can compare to zealots and archons. If zerg is smart it will stay behind with hydralisks waiting. If it has mutalisks, just walk up to its main and start causing havoc. Zerg cannot mix army and economy for long.
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Comments in this thread took me way back to the height of BW with the sweeping generalizations about certain matchups when a fan favorite would lose :')
However, there are bits of truth sprinkled throughout.
Bisu wasn't razor sharp here like he was versus Larva. Corsair control was surprisingly spotty. Decision making on that island map was perplexing. Corner cutting on game 7 versus Soma of all players was so deflating. You're playing Soma: make two cannons and be prepared to hunker down.
And I got to be honest as a zerg boi: I really don't care for Soma's playstyle. It's highly effective, but uninspiring. Doesn't have the range of Soulkey, the quirkiness of Larva, or even the textbook aptitude of Hero or Queen. Mass hydras. Mass speedlings. Muta switches upon Muta switches. Even when he destroyed big air, it took Bisu a-moving his carriers into the middle of the map to do it. He had no defilers or any other kind of follow up. Just more mass mutas and hydras.
Can't believe I'll be rooting for Snow, but that's what I'll be doing.
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On October 18 2025 10:58 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Comments in this thread took me way back to the height of BW with the sweeping generalizations about certain matchups when a fan favorite would lose :')
However, there are bits of truth sprinkled throughout.
Bisu wasn't razor sharp here like he was versus Larva. Corsair control was surprisingly spotty. Decision making on that island map was perplexing. Corner cutting on game 7 versus Soma of all players was so deflating. You're playing Soma: make two cannons and be prepared to hunker down.
And I got to be honest as a zerg boi: I really don't care for Soma's playstyle. It's highly effective, but uninspiring. Doesn't have the range of Soulkey, the quirkiness of Larva, or even the textbook aptitude of Hero or Queen. Mass hydras. Mass speedlings. Muta switches upon Muta switches. Even when he destroyed big air, it took Bisu a-moving his carriers into the middle of the map to do it. He had no defilers or any other kind of follow up. Just more mass mutas and hydras.
Can't believe I'll be rooting for Snow, but that's what I'll be doing.
embrace soma
embrace bts
embrace early pool
embrace hydra bust
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What a great series that was, even coming off of Snow's amazing games. Inspiring stuff, though I was so sad and angry at + Show Spoiler +
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On October 17 2025 22:48 mtcn77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 22:22 Bonyth wrote:On October 17 2025 21:47 mtcn77 wrote:On October 17 2025 21:33 Bonyth wrote:
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment. What are you suggesting? Devourers are going to 9 shot any target they go after, you can't hide. Acid spores have 2*2 spread. Corsair neutron flare has 3*3 spread, however %50 AoE is 1.5*1.5. %25 AoE is below devourer armor dps. I said this before. Just want to clarify, I don't understand your point. Oh, I got how I should say this so you guys can understand: bisu got wrapped in his own image persona. Since he is the first corsair protoss, he got caught fighting island map with his style. I called again and again you cannot win this map with how air protoss plays out, this is the landmark unit bisu couldn't back out off. This is what I meant all this time "protoss needs to play like at the beginning of the millenium." You make archons and corsairs are not the primary air defence. protoss is not obliged to make the life easy for zerg by stacking all corsairs in 1 place together Even if you spread, 9 devourers(let's take the bare minimum we both know there were at least 12) can spread too and if you A+ move, you have a 18*2 spread on however many corsairs you might have. This isn't like corsairs I told you which you have to attack in a 1.5*1.5 cone in order to put a dent in devourers' hp.
You are correct, corsairs are basically useless against devourers. But that's okay, because their job is to protect carriers and attack mutas / scourge. And it's where all the nice micro begins.
Zerg wants to his as many acid spores on as many corsairs as possible in the shortest ammount of time.
Protoss, in order to prevent that, wants to split his corsairs.
Zerg has a critical decision to make, as it's important to land acid spores on carriers too, but there are many leftover corsairs without acid spores. It is important, because devourers on their own don't have enough dps to fight protoss army on their own. So, this is where mutas come into play. If all the corsairs have acid spores on them, mutas won't be shutdown by them, but if some of the corsairs were left untouched, mutas won't make it to carriers.
Well, anyway, a fun micro battle.
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On October 18 2025 18:43 Bonyth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2025 22:48 mtcn77 wrote:On October 17 2025 22:22 Bonyth wrote:On October 17 2025 21:47 mtcn77 wrote:On October 17 2025 21:33 Bonyth wrote:
Bisu went for fast carriers (after corsairs). He skipped all gas-heavy upgrades, 2nd robotics etc in order to get them. Was that the correct choice? Who knows. But assuming it was a fine choice, his mistake was not unit composition, but how he handled the first fight where he ate in 1 moment 9 acid spores on all of his corsairs.
I have no idea how can't you guys see that. It's because of that micro mistake, how the game turned out in the end. If it wasn't for that, Bisu's chances to win would be much much higher. Yet, a lot of you decided, based on the outcome of the game, that it was the strategy that was bad. Who knows, maybe there are better strategies, but based on this game, I definitely cannot say that the strategical choice was bad. The micro was just that bad in that 1 moment. What are you suggesting? Devourers are going to 9 shot any target they go after, you can't hide. Acid spores have 2*2 spread. Corsair neutron flare has 3*3 spread, however %50 AoE is 1.5*1.5. %25 AoE is below devourer armor dps. I said this before. Just want to clarify, I don't understand your point. Oh, I got how I should say this so you guys can understand: bisu got wrapped in his own image persona. Since he is the first corsair protoss, he got caught fighting island map with his style. I called again and again you cannot win this map with how air protoss plays out, this is the landmark unit bisu couldn't back out off. This is what I meant all this time "protoss needs to play like at the beginning of the millenium." You make archons and corsairs are not the primary air defence. protoss is not obliged to make the life easy for zerg by stacking all corsairs in 1 place together Even if you spread, 9 devourers(let's take the bare minimum we both know there were at least 12) can spread too and if you A+ move, you have a 18*2 spread on however many corsairs you might have. This isn't like corsairs I told you which you have to attack in a 1.5*1.5 cone in order to put a dent in devourers' hp. You are correct, corsairs are basically useless against devourers. But that's okay, because their job is to protect carriers and attack mutas / scourge. And it's where all the nice micro begins. Zerg wants to his as many acid spores on as many corsairs as possible in the shortest ammount of time. Protoss, in order to prevent that, wants to split his corsairs. Zerg has a critical decision to make, as it's important to land acid spores on carriers too, but there are many leftover corsairs without acid spores. It is important, because devourers on their own don't have enough dps to fight protoss army on their own. So, this is where mutas come into play. If all the corsairs have acid spores on them, mutas won't be shutdown by them, but if some of the corsairs were left untouched, mutas won't make it to carriers. Well, anyway, a fun micro battle.
Corsairs can go like storm dodging, moving 3 blocks apart, but then how do they attack AoE? All zerg has to do is a move into the protoss air fleet as soma did. The ball is in protoss' court. I think one has to appreciate soma's decisiveness. I've been ranting a lot about devourer muta combo lately.
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EPT
