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chongu
Malaysia2593 Posts
Soma made what I deem a risky all-in play against a very clutch/defensively minded Bisu. He went lings all-in banking everything on (1) bisu misreading a fake 9-7-3, (2) due to 1, bisu skimping on defense to race up the tech tree and econ-wise, (3) driving out / killing a bisu probe (which is near impossibru) But I feel confident in SnOw taking the finals, so long as he plays very prudently against Soma without double the usual scouting. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19299 Posts
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On October 15 2025 09:49 so0willprevail wrote: Too bad Bisu didn’t get Maelsteom vs Zerg mass air. Really think he would’ve won game 5 Getting Maelstrom would have required: Citadel of Adun - 150/100 - 38 seconds Templar Archives - 150/200 - 38 seconds Malestrom - 100/100 - 63 seconds 2 Dark Templar - 250/200 650 / 600 and 2:19. I'm pretty sure there aren't 650 / 600 from Bisu's build that could be cut (Disruption Web is 200/200) to have it in time for the first major air battle which is when he lost the game, so realistically, getting a Dark Archon pushes the attack later which I'm not sure helps the Protoss player unless they get a magical hit. I'm pretty sure if soma saw a Dark Archon, he just takes his air fleet and systematically destroys all of the island bases and never gives Bisu the fight he's looking for. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7816 Posts
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mtcn77
Turkey639 Posts
On October 15 2025 10:28 RogueTheGOAT wrote: Getting Maelstrom would have required: Citadel of Adun - 150/100 - 38 seconds Templar Archives - 150/200 - 38 seconds Malestrom - 100/100 - 63 seconds 2 Dark Templar - 250/200 650 / 600 and 2:19. I'm pretty sure there aren't 650 / 600 from Bisu's build that could be cut (Disruption Web is 200/200) to have it in time for the first major air battle which is when he lost the game, so realistically, getting a Dark Archon pushes the attack later which I'm not sure helps the Protoss player unless they get a magical hit. I'm pretty sure if soma saw a Dark Archon, he just takes his air fleet and systematically destroys all of the island bases and never gives Bisu the fight he's looking for. You give the island maps to zerg. You don't make air. Stop playing pvz like it is zvz. You don't have to have air in order to bust zerg. Dweb costs 850/550, takes 170s. I didn't account for necessary corsairs on top of that. It is next to impossible fighting zerg from tech that is so wasteful. PS: for comparison maelstrom single DA costs 850/600 183s(including accumulation of +50 base mana) since you need to count CC, too. PS: get this you need 126s time after stargate finishes just to have a corsair with 125 mana(100.8s). That is 1000/650 208s in total. | ||
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Lazyer
United States365 Posts
On October 14 2025 22:06 RowdierBob wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/btbej.jpg) 😭😭😭 | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On October 15 2025 10:50 mtcn77 wrote: You give the island maps to zerg. You don't make air. Stop playing pvz like it is zvz. You don't have to have air in order to bust zerg. Dweb costs 850/550, takes 170s. I didn't account for necessary corsairs on top of that. It is next to impossible fighting zerg from tech that is so wasteful. PS: for comparison maelstrom single DA costs 850/600 183s(including accumulation of +50 base mana) since you need to count CC, too. PS: get this you need 126s time after stargate finishes just to have a corsair with 125 mana(100.8s). That is 1000/650 208s in total. You're including the cost of the Cyber Core? In that case, you have to add the Pylon (100), Gateway (150), and Assimilator (100) because you obviously wouldn't be getting any of those if you're not going for Dark Archons. | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey639 Posts
On October 15 2025 11:18 RogueTheGOAT wrote: You're including the cost of the Cyber Core? In that case, you have to add the Pylon (100), Gateway (150), and Assimilator (100) because you obviously wouldn't be getting any of those if you're not going for Dark Archons. You don't have to include those since they are essential, not optional. I counted CC since it is the first basic tech building protoss has. On October 15 2025 10:50 mtcn77 wrote: You give the island maps to zerg. You don't make air. Stop playing pvz like it is zvz. You don't have to have air in order to bust zerg. Dweb costs 850/550, takes 170s. I regained my train of thought. At 170.8s, you have your first reaver with 5 scarabs in bay, or in other words at 169.6s you have your reaver loaded up in your shuttle on its way to the zerg base. Not smart, but some people want to fight scourge with shuttle reaver. I cannot judge them. PS: reaver+5scarabs with shuttle is 1225/600 169.6s. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3080 Posts
On October 15 2025 10:25 BisuDagger wrote: Damn what a series. I’m so proud of how Bisu played this season. Typical ending unfortunately. Feels like he always loses to ling all-ins. In all seriousness, Bisu did play well and it's hard not to root for the guy. Some of his games didn't look super great before the start of the season, or maybe I just caught him at bad times, but he rallied like a boss. Honestly, he could have won this series pretty handily. Parking his corsairs in g1 and losing all 3 during that ogre zerg and then losing his air fleet early on roaring currents were pretty big blunders. After all that it still came to a g7. This was one of the better series of the tournament. Hydra muta is super lean and doesn't slow the game down, which is fun to watch. GGs | ||
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Sabu113
United States11075 Posts
Snow getting his first ASL over a Zerg will be sublime. | ||
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Kyle8
30 Posts
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Soft_General_5023
110 Posts
On October 15 2025 16:15 Kyle8 wrote: What is Snow vs Soma h2h record in recent weeks? Soma has 173 wins, 111 losses vs Snow "all time" according to eloboard. Since he came back from military in July it's pretty much even 21 wins 22 losses Soma is still favorite to win though imo. | ||
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moktira
Ireland1545 Posts
Been a huge Bisu fan since 2007 so very disappointed in the outcome, he was looking great the last few games so was hoping he'd get through. At least this spares us from a PvP final. | ||
Peeano
Netherlands5195 Posts
On October 15 2025 18:21 moktira wrote: Very disappointing ending to an otherwise great series. Reminds of the GOM TV invitational thing after the first two GOM TV Classics where they invited Bisu to play Jaedong as the winners of the first two tournaments to play each other, it was an epic series until the last game where Jaedong gets lings through Bisu's ramp block and it ends massively anticlimactically. Been a huge Bisu fan since 2007 so very disappointed in the outcome, he was looking great the last few games so was hoping he'd get through. At least this spares us from a PvP final. Yeah... The wet hair invitational lmao. Ironically JD admitted Bisu was the stronger player in the winner interview, Bisu just failed to block his ramp... This Bo7 was better imo, just less hyped. | ||
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TMNT
3098 Posts
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oxKnu
1240 Posts
On October 15 2025 16:55 Soft_General_5023 wrote: Soma has 173 wins, 111 losses vs Snow "all time" according to eloboard. Since he came back from military in July it's pretty much even 21 wins 22 losses Soma is still favorite to win though imo. If Soma tries to play slow and invites Snow into the late-game I think he will have some serious trouble. IMO, if a Zerg reaches the finals against a P that is not a true strategist (so basically only in-shape Rain from the current era) he should play a complete bait-and-switch/all-in style. There is no point in dragging games out (unless it's a weird game state or a bizarre map). Most P's that will ever reach a final are competent enough to go 50/50 over Zergs in long games, simply letting them get there is unnecessary risk. I say this because of the added pressure of the finals, a Zerg that completely goes spastic is a terrible matchup for a P that just tries to get a grip of the series for most of the time. I think Soma will do this anyway but just stating the obvious here. | ||
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Ideas
United States8147 Posts
On October 15 2025 18:49 Peeano wrote: Yeah... The wet hair invitational lmao. Ironically JD admitted Bisu was the stronger player in the winner interview, Bisu just failed to block his ramp... This Bo7 was better imo, just less hyped. Reminds me of how during kespa until like 2009 there were so many cool invitationals going on. Snickers all-stars, Shinhan masters, Gomtv Invitational (first tournament that tasteless casted live entire time I think? It was definitely what got me interested in BW as an esport). Would love to see a ASL Masters to celebrate 20 seasons. Invite every winner and put them in random groups, use a mix of maps from every season. | ||
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Highways
Australia6105 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8773 Posts
ultimately its his fault but i would be giga tilted to lose to that after he had specifically tested that it worked. hes under a fair bit of fire atm because he didnt stay around to sign autographs after the match. he says he was too devastated that he didnt think he would be able to do fan service with a straight face. edit: to be more accurate about the probes, he thought his reaction was already too slow in pulling them and he didnt want to risk defending the entrance with probes to inadvertently create further gaps for zerglings to runby into the nat or main. | ||
GTR
51505 Posts
On October 15 2025 18:21 moktira wrote: Very disappointing ending to an otherwise great series. Reminds of the GOM TV invitational thing after the first two GOM TV Classics where they invited Bisu to play Jaedong as the winners of the first two tournaments to play each other, it was an epic series until the last game where Jaedong gets lings through Bisu's ramp block and it ends massively anticlimactically. Been a huge Bisu fan since 2007 so very disappointed in the outcome, he was looking great the last few games so was hoping he'd get through. At least this spares us from a PvP final. ITS CALLED HOLD POSITION BRO | ||
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