On April 20 2024 00:37 Postaljester_ wrote: The reason Protoss is the worst faction is also the reason they are the most fun to play and watch. Their units suck and are overpriced causing them to rely on specialists units. The specialists: reaver, Templar, arbiter cannot be massed and require each one to be individually controlled.
There will never be a consensus but I am interested in what others think the brood war unit tier lists would look like.
Is funny to call this protoss unit suck when some of them are capable of killing 45 units from zerg. Nah for real comedy.
lmao
zerg literally has by far the best spellcaster in the game (defiler) and on top of that two of the best and most versatile units in the game (zergling and hydralisk). Not even mentioning mutalisk, which can end the game on a whim if controlled correctly.
If you can't manage to win vs protoss as zerg, it's a skill issue. Nothing more.
Rounding out the usual suspects, we have M3t4PhYzX telling one of the best foreign Zergs of all time who is high enough in ladder to match up on ladder with Snow, the semi-finalist featured in this very thread, that he has a "skill issue." Lmfao. Pure clown, never change 🤡
Dont forget reavers need scarabs. carriers need interceptors. etc. The reaver is extremely strong in somewhat fortified positions I agree. Specifically when games go very long reavers become stupidly efficient and effective, capable of killing five times what it(and its scarabs ) cost. But they dont just get 45 kills. That is super rare.
On April 20 2024 08:47 Shinokuki wrote: All i know is that TMNT is a fraud man. He gotta reveal his MMR. If his MMR is 2k+ i will bow down to him for his superior statistics. Until then, zvp is balanced and zergs hate to go standard nowadays. They would rather die than go defilers.
Lol come on what did I say to offend you? What's my argument that you disagree and what's your counter argument?
If we're to go the mmr route then you should ask Stork his, then bow down to his opinion "ZvP is 60/40 Zerg on normal map and when it's 973 it's 70/30".
No offense meant, as I generally think you've made sensible posts and points (even if I don't agree with all of them), but I can't help but notice that you didn't post your MMR.
To be fair that should apply to Shinokuki - the evergreen shitposter who apparently has his finger on the pulse of the Korean proscene - as well. This spat has gone on long enough where you both should just post your MMRs and then decide whether you want to have a grudgematch or not.
Just by the way Shinokuki speaks i can grant he is 2300 mmr.
Btw TNT im not mocking snow. The f*ck ? the guy is the best player in the world right now based in his proleague results and online results tournaments. Everyone knows (i assume ) ASL is not the one to decide who is the best these days.
It was just a back to the past gem i found cuz im fan of the game and i watch countless starcraft for more than 16 years lol.
G5 i respect you bro. Protoss old school legend that beat Boxer. Even if you do sometimes weird shit like calling people hackers lol.
I can tell you dont even know defiler HP. But you a legend bro. much love
On April 20 2024 00:37 Postaljester_ wrote: The reason Protoss is the worst faction is also the reason they are the most fun to play and watch. Their units suck and are overpriced causing them to rely on specialists units. The specialists: reaver, Templar, arbiter cannot be massed and require each one to be individually controlled.
There will never be a consensus but I am interested in what others think the brood war unit tier lists would look like.
Is funny to call this protoss unit suck when some of them are capable of killing 45 units from zerg. Nah for real comedy.
He did mention the reaver as a specialist unit though.
Yeah but apart from Dragoon mobility. ( in some maps btw ) i cant really think of any unit that suck. Holyshit even the Scout is amazing if you upgrade that thing to the maximum. The air power of that thing is actually insane. ( thx god is expensive )
Let that sink plague does nothing vs archons. Like i legit understand terran pain sometimes with plague. But toss complaining about plague is comedy too.
Im not going to be arguing balanced here. In my book the game is balanced. But this season maps are terrible to play in. We will see what happen next season since there is going to be a zerg vs zerg final..
Plague does so much more though. Demolishes buildings, invalidates high HP units, even reveals cloaked units. All of this is really good against P. You know that man, you don't need my F rank to spread wisdom on the topic.
I have a hard time believing do you even play zerg. Defiler is a tier 3 unit. Just the struggle to get to that point in a good position is a real hustle. Lets say you got there. Each time u will try to use that defiler it will almost never have energy cuz u are so busy keeping up with production and defending or attacking that u dont even have time to consume. Lets say do you consume finally. U will make an attack but do you need to keep up with production defending etc. that when u look back to your army the defiler is gone by 1 storm. Or it got intercepted mid way by random toss units. But ok lets play the game defiler is outside the toss defensive position. U finally plagued the canons the zealots. the dream right ? u send all your army and all of sudden there is 4 reavers and 4 hightemplars defending. and u just loss all your army.
yeah defiler is good. But is not the sacred grail that people make it seems to be.
Bro. First off, Defilers are great. I don't think they're op. I just think they're an absolutely a fantastic unit. But making complaints about losing a defiler because you look away to macro? That's just a weird thing to complain about imo. Protoss loses HTs like this all of the time to hydras, mutas, lings, etc. and this is a threat literally all game. You only have to worry about babysitting defilers in the late game when you actually have them. The amount of babysitting spell-casters or high-value units in ZvP is undebatable. It's way more taxing on Protoss. You have one real spell caster that is used and you don't even have to worry about using it in most of your ZvPs because it only appears in late game. Come on now.
To be fair, I think he was talking about moving his army. Moving a zerg army takes significantly more clicks (in effective APM) than protoss because they have more units in raw numbers. This is why you mostly see small skirmishes with defilers on the offensive side and not zerg moving their whole army including defilers around the map all the time until they find an opening. That being said, I do think defilers are one of the strongest units in the game for sure. I also think that protoss has to do a lot more baby-sitting for specific units, not only spell casters but also obs and reaver/shuttle.
On April 20 2024 10:34 RJBTV wrote: Dont forget reavers need scarabs. carriers need interceptors. etc. The reaver is extremely strong in somewhat fortified positions I agree. Specifically when games go very long reavers become stupidly efficient and effective, capable of killing five times what it(and its scarabs ) cost. But they dont just get 45 kills. That is super rare.
Nah they do trust. Lets not act now like reavers are only good in Snow hands. When do you upgrade the damage thing on the reaver. That thing smokes in late game LOL . But im not claiming defiler isnt good. Where i said that ? Defiler is great like g5 said. Specially vs terran. Dont you find strange that every zerg always try to finish the game fast as possible.( sometimes risking a sure loss ) instead of playing for the ultimate unit the defiler ? Like for real. Look at my boe Action vs Best in past ASLs. or Action vs Snow recently. That guy has one of the best defiler controls in starcraft. Yet each time he play a protoss he is desperate to finish the game instead of using his most lethal streng in zerg vs terran. Very curious hmm.
On April 20 2024 08:47 Shinokuki wrote: All i know is that TMNT is a fraud man. He gotta reveal his MMR. If his MMR is 2k+ i will bow down to him for his superior statistics. Until then, zvp is balanced and zergs hate to go standard nowadays. They would rather die than go defilers.
Lol come on what did I say to offend you? What's my argument that you disagree and what's your counter argument?
If we're to go the mmr route then you should ask Stork his, then bow down to his opinion "ZvP is 60/40 Zerg on normal map and when it's 973 it's 70/30".
No offense meant, as I generally think you've made sensible posts and points (even if I don't agree with all of them), but I can't help but notice that you didn't post your MMR.
To be fair that should apply to Shinokuki - the evergreen shitposter who apparently has his finger on the pulse of the Korean proscene - as well. This spat has gone on long enough where you both should just post your MMRs and then decide whether you want to have a grudgematch or not.
On April 20 2024 00:37 Postaljester_ wrote: The reason Protoss is the worst faction is also the reason they are the most fun to play and watch. Their units suck and are overpriced causing them to rely on specialists units. The specialists: reaver, Templar, arbiter cannot be massed and require each one to be individually controlled.
There will never be a consensus but I am interested in what others think the brood war unit tier lists would look like.
Is funny to call this protoss unit suck when some of them are capable of killing 45 units from zerg. Nah for real comedy.
lmao
zerg literally has by far the best spellcaster in the game (defiler) and on top of that two of the best and most versatile units in the game (zergling and hydralisk). Not even mentioning mutalisk, which can end the game on a whim if controlled correctly.
If you can't manage to win vs protoss as zerg, it's a skill issue. Nothing more.
Rounding out the usual suspects, we have M3t4PhYzX telling one of the best foreign Zergs of all time who is high enough in ladder to match up on ladder with Snow, the semi-finalist featured in this very thread, that he has a "skill issue." Lmfao. Pure clown, never change 🤡
I never said he isn't a skilled BW player, btw. Just that not winning ZvP is a skill issue (more than maps) due to matchup being skewed towards Z pretty heavily. Yet you attacked me without hesitation over nothing. You are not well in the head. There are layers to this but I wouldn't think a mouth drooler like you would ever get any of it anyway.
On April 20 2024 00:37 Postaljester_ wrote: The reason Protoss is the worst faction is also the reason they are the most fun to play and watch. Their units suck and are overpriced causing them to rely on specialists units. The specialists: reaver, Templar, arbiter cannot be massed and require each one to be individually controlled.
There will never be a consensus but I am interested in what others think the brood war unit tier lists would look like.
Is funny to call this protoss unit suck when some of them are capable of killing 45 units from zerg. Nah for real comedy.
lmao
zerg literally has by far the best spellcaster in the game (defiler) and on top of that two of the best and most versatile units in the game (zergling and hydralisk). Not even mentioning mutalisk, which can end the game on a whim if controlled correctly.
If you can't manage to win vs protoss as zerg, it's a skill issue. Nothing more.
Rounding out the usual suspects, we have M3t4PhYzX telling one of the best foreign Zergs of all time who is high enough in ladder to match up on ladder with Snow, the semi-finalist featured in this very thread, that he has a "skill issue." Lmfao. Pure clown, never change 🤡
I never said he isn't a skilled BW player, btw. Just that not winning ZvP is a skill issue (more than maps) due to matchup being skewed towards Z pretty heavily. Yet you attacked me without hesitation over nothing. You are not well in the head. There are layers to this but I wouldn't think a mouth drooler like you would ever get any of it anyway.
i think the point is you just don't know what you're talking about.
On April 20 2024 00:37 Postaljester_ wrote: The reason Protoss is the worst faction is also the reason they are the most fun to play and watch. Their units suck and are overpriced causing them to rely on specialists units. The specialists: reaver, Templar, arbiter cannot be massed and require each one to be individually controlled.
There will never be a consensus but I am interested in what others think the brood war unit tier lists would look like.
Is funny to call this protoss unit suck when some of them are capable of killing 45 units from zerg. Nah for real comedy.
lmao
zerg literally has by far the best spellcaster in the game (defiler) and on top of that two of the best and most versatile units in the game (zergling and hydralisk). Not even mentioning mutalisk, which can end the game on a whim if controlled correctly.
If you can't manage to win vs protoss as zerg, it's a skill issue. Nothing more.
Rounding out the usual suspects, we have M3t4PhYzX telling one of the best foreign Zergs of all time who is high enough in ladder to match up on ladder with Snow, the semi-finalist featured in this very thread, that he has a "skill issue." Lmfao. Pure clown, never change 🤡
I never said he isn't a skilled BW player, btw. Just that not winning ZvP is a skill issue (more than maps) due to matchup being skewed towards Z pretty heavily. Yet you attacked me without hesitation over nothing. You are not well in the head. There are layers to this but I wouldn't think a mouth drooler like you would ever get any of it anyway.
i think the point is you just don't know what you're talking about.
Appears we need some new forum upgrades. Account verification through Blizzard's API to match MMR to unlock posting access to balance whine threads lol
At least we have a proper ZvZ final so we can put this to rest. Instead we can focus on the insane skill needed for proper muta control and see how easy Protoss has it
I was a bit disappointed in the way Snow lost, Soulkey found a lot of success with his aggressive lings with Mini so I expected Snow to be a bit more prepared.
Some great games but I am sad that we don't get to see Snow take home a tournament yet again.
So consistently great yet never great enough...
Great play by Soulkey though, really exploiting the lack of information and did some great stuff and just played great. But I felt like Snow did bring more...
On April 21 2024 00:17 Smorrie wrote: Appears we need some new forum upgrades. Account verification through Blizzard's API to match MMR to unlock posting access to balance whine threads lol
Won't work. People will start boosting accounts for money, lol.
as a longtime tastosis fan since WoL and an OG sc player since 98 (since nyoken my current fav bw caster missed snow vs soulkey) i was so damn excited for the official afreecatv esports cast of this series. then it's posted and i watch it and... seriously? they sleep-walked through the entire game, trying to call it as over long before it was, missing crucial details. it seemed like they were barely paying attention. play-by-play, analysis and banter were all extremely weak. hype completely absent. hard to believe people pay to support that. maybe they're just old and tired, or had a bad day.
anyway
why are people still so obsessed with the kespa era? the bulk of my pro bw knowledge is from the ASL era, but did any kespa era protoss pro ever show even a fraction of the brilliance snow displayed in g3 with his reaver and shuttle control? seems like we're all just old farts, waxing nostalgic about the glory days because our glory days are behind us too.
in any case, that was a pretty disgusting end to an otherwise occasionally thrilling series. zerg showed us it doesn't need 9-7-3 or whatever to break the mu. massing lings is enough now.
why are people still so obsessed with the kespa era? the bulk of my pro bw knowledge is from the ASL era, but did any kespa era protoss pro ever show even a fraction of the brilliance snow displayed in g3 with his reaver and shuttle control? seems like we're all just old farts, waxing nostalgic about the glory days because our glory days are behind us too.
Nostalgia and because that was the golden era in terms of popularity and viewership and money involved. Players were not better then than they are now. Present > past.
why are people still so obsessed with the kespa era? the bulk of my pro bw knowledge is from the ASL era, but did any kespa era protoss pro ever show even a fraction of the brilliance snow displayed in g3 with his reaver and shuttle control? seems like we're all just old farts, waxing nostalgic about the glory days because our glory days are behind us too.
Nostalgia and because that was the golden era in terms of popularity and viewership and money involved. Players were not better then than they are now. Present > past.
I actually disagree. I think the meta is vaaaasty different but I think players were better in 2009 - 2010.
FlaSh actually said that if he played himself from that era, the current FlaSh would beat his former self for about 2 weeks straight then never win again.
I agree with that. Obviously he wouldn't "never win again" but I agree with the sentiment.
P.S. With that said, no one has ever been better with Reavers than snOw is now though. As an old fart whom has watched every OSL, MSL, ASL, and everything in between, I can confidently say that.
Sad to see Snow lose, I was hoping he could pull off a sick JangBi style comeback like in the Final OSL but I think Soulkey outplayed him. I guess we get a zvz finals then.
On April 16 2024 22:08 kodecopas wrote: no Last no Flash no Fantasy = Zerg dominance
I always said be careful what you wish for; that when Flash leaves, enjoy ur ZvZ finals. Only just started watching ASL again; and when I looked up past results, I was very surprised we got three Terran champs after Flash left. And two of them were TvT finals no less. I couldn’t believe it. And it seems like I’m not the only one. Tastosis mentioned that we’re now “back to a normal state” where “the players expected to win are winning”; and iirc they specifically mentioned the JyJ and Royal championships. No offense to JyJ, but can someone explain what the heck happened?
On April 16 2024 22:08 kodecopas wrote: no Last no Flash no Fantasy = Zerg dominance
I always said be careful what you wish for; that when Flash leaves, enjoy ur ZvZ finals. Only just started watching ASL again; and when I looked up past results, I was very surprised we got three Terran champs after Flash left. And two of them were TvT finals no less. I couldn’t believe it. And it seems like I’m not the only one. Tastosis mentioned that we’re now “back to a normal state” where “the players expected to win are winning”; and iirc they specifically mentioned the JyJ and Royal championships. No offense to JyJ, but can someone explain what the heck happened?
Yeah, I was surprised as well that 3 Terrans won post FlaSh. Terrans used to say their race isn't good, just FlaSh is good. Then other Terrans won a bunch of ASLs and you don't hear that argument so much anymore.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/00j3s91.png)
