EPTand, the fact taht they did chat in gameroom implies(even tho this does not matter since nothing can be proven) that the game was not rigged. had they planned on rigging the game, they wouldnt have done it in chat. mindgames work in chat, not pregame. think about it.
[IEST] Hwasin and Calm: Attempt@Psuedo-Journalism. - Page 6
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Eerik
Estonia117 Posts
and, the fact taht they did chat in gameroom implies(even tho this does not matter since nothing can be proven) that the game was not rigged. had they planned on rigging the game, they wouldnt have done it in chat. mindgames work in chat, not pregame. think about it. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
Remember when stork lost twice to white_ra? Oh wait he SAID he didn't lose on purpose, I guess it must be true ! No matter the evidence replays. Seriously, it's obvious progamers don't take foreign tournaments seriously. Hwasin and calm should be heavily penalized as far as I'm concerned. On October 23 2007 20:04 zulu_nation8 wrote: half of this forum is retarded seriously | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
On October 23 2007 06:42 .dragoon wrote: You gotta understand something: It's not what you believe that makes it true. It's what's TRUE that makes it true. YOU have to understand something: I did not state at any moment what the ABSOLUTE TRUTH is, I just expressed my personal conviction regarding a conflict where neither of the opposing sides have the final, death blowing argument. My personal conviction may be or may be not true, only lesser intelligent people may take it as something absolute, when I specifically said it's a personal point of view. | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
But I have the right to be a little idealistic perhaps, and believe in their honesty, even if it's not the case this specific time. | ||
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Waves
Australia185 Posts
On October 23 2007 20:33 Frits wrote: Remember when stork lost twice to white_ra? Oh wait he SAID he didn't lose on purpose, I guess it must be true! I thought he actually admitted to throwing the game, but that the translator "censored" that part? | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 23 2007 16:51 The Storyteller wrote: When you go in to work at a factory, do you walk past 20,000 fans on the way in, change into a sponsored uniform and then put on makeup for the TV coverage of you packing boxes? Entertainer is not the same as a normal job. Um... no... That's like saying you shouldn't take up a job unless you'll be serious about it, but lots of people take on jobs they are not serious about for the money. It's up to the employer to make sure every member of his staff is a member he wants to hire. So if the IEST organisers can't make this a major tournament that everyone cares about, or if they can't even find progamers who will be serious about the tournament, too bad. What's the problem with throwing games for the sake of your team/country, anyway? Happens in F1 all the time. It's sports, not a circus. What happens when athletes talk about taking plays off? Their coaches yell at them and we (fans) call them assholes. | ||
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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NHi.GoMDoRi
Canada51 Posts
However, i feel it is necessary to point this out .. 1. they did not cheat to get to the finals --> can we all agree on this? they earned their right to play in the finals .. by trying/playing seriously 2. they don't owe anybody anything --> ppl say how unprofessional fixing the games was, TRUE .. it was unprofessional, however .. like i said.. they don't owe anybody anything.. meaning = they aren't obligated. to the fans maybe? but nothing written in stone. 3. STX coach making up bs story to cover players --> was it insulting for taking the fans as idiots? YES.. but step into his shoes for a moment.. he has a LOT of responsibility in managing STX's players and when controversies such as these arise, it is his duty to maintain IMAGE. that is the key point .. he doesn't expect ppl to buy the bs he made up.. he prolly just said it cuz he had to cover shit up quickly and fast. 4. whats done is done --> nothing can turn back time and it didn't happen in korean soil, so kespa has nothing to do with it. no solid evidence = all assumptions .. HIGHLY convincing assumptions.. is all i wrote this because of another TL member's comments... it was loosely about "don't enter the tournament if you aren't gonna try" ... and frankly that couldn't be more wrong. They both had the skill to get to the finals.. and if they didn't wanna play seriously they don't have to. It is expected that they will play serious/for real games... but they are not obligated to anything by law.. if the tournament organizers find the rigging disturbing and want to prevent this kind of incident from occuring again, they can take the necessary precautions.. i won't propose any possible solutions because im pretty sure they are smarter than me. bottom line: what they did was ethically wrong, and u can hate them all u want but nothing is gonna change shit. nobody gives a shit about this in korea because koreans know in korea there is no bullshit game fixing because of the fame/prestige of the tournaments. (i read the fighterforum link and read the comments... nobody really gives a fuck) lets keep it flame free plz ~_~ i just wanted to express my opinions | ||
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wifeH
United States127 Posts
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starscrapper
29 Posts
article below written in Chinese: 关于IEST2007决赛说说我的看法 第1 局 monty hall HWASIN 先于12点钟裸2基后用1BB堵住中间的路口可以防止Z PLAYER DRONE于T路口采矿，在T初期MARINE少的情况下被一波RUSH。出到4个MRINE则可完全排除上述被破口的可能即便12点被偷袭则可以LIFT完工的COMMAND CENTER 飞至另一9点钟分矿处运营且主基地左侧有水晶届时有充裕的MARINE，防住后则Z PLAYER 基本无翻盘的可能。HWASIN的开局是无懈可击，这图倒是ZERG有被T于路口采矿（初期无远程兵种防止SCV这一行为）后VULTURE RUSH的可能。所以T是无需探路的但Z必需依靠OVERLORD 侦查以便防止T上述的这种行为。此盘OVERLORD 得知T 1BB放下的时间大胆地极限MACRO。回顾一下VOD吧 T 和 Z的MACRO都是顶尖水平的，是在这图上T V Z 的巅峰对决。这样精彩的比赛是你在韩国职业联赛MSL OSL上都未见到的。这盘T针对Z的策略也选择了极限MACRO并速机械化，注意传统打法遇Z 这种开局3 个矿区无法同时有效地抵制MUTA骚扰的。 于是你们中国星际职业解说应该用PC 为HWASIN AND CALM作一档 MONTY HALL T VS Z终极对决后发布在TEAMLIQUID.NET上。SAVE 下的REPLAY 也能在国际上卖个天价。 第2 局 python 2BB EXPO 对IPX拖把流已有定论无需多谈。科技球被撞不要紧的只要“及时”推到Z的2基地处利用SCIENCE VESSEL为COMSAT省下的能量，扫光Z 主矿的建筑 Z 不打GG 评论员也得GG。 第3 局 longnius 上盘 PYTHON 主基地口还有高地优势都被溜ZERGLING了呀?! LONGNIUS 11点钟路口平坦宽敞无险可守。评论员是打Z的吧?! 遇到T于11点钟方位不堵口的1BB 2BASE T 不GG 谁GG? 第4局 tau cross 野兵营被探到的可能性有多大呢？若未4D 5D就算是探到了的话别说是12 POOL 连9 POOL 都要GG的呀这和MONTY HALL上 Z 前期无远程兵种防止T SCV 采矿破Z的口一样的呀。只不过T 很BS地堵住了一窝小畜生的口，小狗崽子顶着MARINE 们正义的MACHIEN GUN咬BS 2 SCV不断给修理修理Z会有前途哇啦？真是想不明白这种TAU CROSS 上 T V Z绝杀开局咋地在韩国职业MSL OSL没见到过呢？REPLAY 能卖多少RMB呢? 第5局 python 这图哎！ 2 个OVERLORD能探2 个出生点中间用ZERGLING预警T MARINE压上立即码SUNKEN，很高明的打法呀。咋地偏偏遇上了野兵营大招了呢？ | ||
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starscrapper
29 Posts
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starscrapper
29 Posts
On October 23 2007 11:51 Jibba wrote: Honestly, I think the /w argument is the weakest of the bunch, and if it were just game 5 I'd be closer to the mind tricks thing, since Calm only said what he'd be doing. Game 4 is the most fishy to me (Here's the pic since no one has posted the g4 one yet.) I'm not sure what the last line says but the first 3 tell exactly what happened during the game. Dint u watch all the vod from 1st game to 5th? Folks suppose U were playing BO5 reviewing each previous game with your opponent while the conjunction between the next game starts in chat room. Well HwaSin did scroll up the dialog before 4Th game starts bewared that content shown in box for a very millisecond might be the reviews of 1st game and 2nd game! | ||
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starscrapper
29 Posts
On October 23 2007 11:51 Jibba wrote: Honestly, I think the /w argument is the weakest of the bunch, and if it were just game 5 I'd be closer to the mind tricks thing, since Calm only said what he'd be doing. Game 4 is the most fishy to me (Here's the pic since no one has posted the g4 one yet.) I'm not sure what the last line says but the first 3 tell exactly what happened during the game. IEST2007 FINALS 5 GAMES: HwaSin FPVOD vs Calm (1) 2007-10-21 http://hot1.mofile.com/200710221100/7...078c/g3/ctc/2007/10/21/TH/CF/THCF9S21 HwaSin FPVOD vs Calm (2) 2007-10-21 http://hot1.mofile.com/200710221100/0...6a5d/g3/ctc/2007/10/21/PV/R7/PVR71DQI HwaSin FPVOD vs Calm (3) 2007-10-21 http://hot1.mofile.com/200710221100/6...2676/g3/ctc/2007/10/21/VF/Q5/VFQ5KME4 HwaSin FPVOD vs Calm (4) 2007-10-21 http://hot1.mofile.com/200710221100/f...2ea2/g3/ctc/2007/10/21/X2/4U/X24UT38T HwaSin FPVOD vs Calm (5) 2007-10-21 http://hot1.mofile.com/200710221100/1...71d1/g3/ctc/2007/10/21/2D/XX/2DXX4CV5 down load 3rd game watch the begin 10 seconds compare to that screen shot snap from the 4th game Vod 4 to 3 5 to 4 retarted and absurd!!!! | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36379 Posts
On October 23 2007 20:37 minus_human wrote: YOU have to understand something: I did not state at any moment what the ABSOLUTE TRUTH is, I just expressed my personal conviction regarding a conflict where neither of the opposing sides have the final, death blowing argument. My personal conviction may be or may be not true, only lesser intelligent people may take it as something absolute, when I specifically said it's a personal point of view. i think what everyone is saying is that if you "refuse to believe" something in light of overwhelming evidence on one side, it's ridiculous, regardless of whether you are entitled to your opinion or not you saying "i personally refuse to believe they fixed their matches" implies that no matter what evidence is presented or how convincing, you just don't care and won't believe it. this is not the viewpoint of a reasonable, intelligent person. i ask you what evidence would convince you that they rigged it? hwasin and calm and their coach coming out and saying they rigged it? this will never happen. after the fact people can always claim "mind games" or something of that nature. | ||
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Ansible
United States73 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 24 2007 00:22 Ansible wrote: everybody Calm down, it Hwasin't rigged!! Sadly that got a laugh out of me. I must be really sick. :/ Anyways, starcraper, I watched the other matches here and game 4 was the only time he went center barracks. They do talk before all the games (too blurry to read) but game 3 was a 15+ minute game ending in mutas/lurkers vs. tanks/mnm so they definitely weren't discussing it in the g4 VOD. I don't think Calm 12 pooled in game 4 though so I'm not sure what to say about that. | ||
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[]Dlayer
United States15 Posts
On October 23 2007 23:00 starscrapper wrote: Basher down on your knees article below written in Chinese: 关于IEST2007决赛说说我的看法 第1 局 monty hall HWASIN 先于12点钟裸2基后用1BB堵住中间的路口可以防止Z PLAYER DRONE于T路口采矿，在T初期MARINE少的情况下被一波RUSH。出到4个MRINE则可完全排除上述被破口的可能即便12点被偷袭则可以LIFT完工的COMMAND CENTER 飞至另一9点钟分矿处运营且主基地左侧有水晶届时有充裕的MARINE，防住后则Z PLAYER 基本无翻盘的可能。HWASIN的开局是无懈可击，这图倒是ZERG有被T于路口采矿（初期无远程兵种防止SCV这一行为）后VULTURE RUSH的可能。所以T是无需探路的但Z必需依靠OVERLORD 侦查以便防止T上述的这种行为。此盘OVERLORD 得知T 1BB放下的时间大胆地极限MACRO。回顾一下VOD吧 T 和 Z的MACRO都是顶尖水平的，是在这图上T V Z 的巅峰对决。这样精彩的比赛是你在韩国职业联赛MSL OSL上都未见到的。这盘T针对Z的策略也选择了极限MACRO并速机械化，注意传统打法遇Z 这种开局3 个矿区无法同时有效地抵制MUTA骚扰的。 于是你们中国星际职业解说应该用PC 为HWASIN AND CALM作一档 MONTY HALL T VS Z终极对决后发布在TEAMLIQUID.NET上。SAVE 下的REPLAY 也能在国际上卖个天价。 第2 局 python 2BB EXPO 对IPX拖把流已有定论无需多谈。科技球被撞不要紧的只要“及时”推到Z的2基地处利用SCIENCE VESSEL为COMSAT省下的能量，扫光Z 主矿的建筑 Z 不打GG 评论员也得GG。 第3 局 longnius 上盘 PYTHON 主基地口还有高地优势都被溜ZERGLING了呀?! LONGNIUS 11点钟路口平坦宽敞无险可守。评论员是打Z的吧?! 遇到T于11点钟方位不堵口的1BB 2BASE T 不GG 谁GG? 第4局 tau cross 野兵营被探到的可能性有多大呢？若未4D 5D就算是探到了的话别说是12 POOL 连9 POOL 都要GG的呀这和MONTY HALL上 Z 前期无远程兵种防止T SCV 采矿破Z的口一样的呀。只不过T 很BS地堵住了一窝小畜生的口，小狗崽子顶着MARINE 们正义的MACHIEN GUN咬BS 2 SCV不断给修理修理Z会有前途哇啦？真是想不明白这种TAU CROSS 上 T V Z绝杀开局咋地在韩国职业MSL OSL没见到过呢？REPLAY 能卖多少RMB呢? 第5局 python 这图哎！ 2 个OVERLORD能探2 个出生点中间用ZERGLING预警T MARINE压上立即码SUNKEN，很高明的打法呀。咋地偏偏遇上了野兵营大招了呢？ someone translate please | ||
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Desade
Germany50 Posts
But the one vital question hasn't been asked nor answered as far as I know: Why should Calm give this win to Hwasin? | ||
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starscrapper
29 Posts
On October 24 2007 00:52 Jibba wrote: Sadly that got a laugh out of me. I must be really sick. :/ Anyways, starcraper, I watched the other matches here and game 4 was the only time he went center barracks. They do talk before all the games (too blurry to read) but game 3 was a 15+ minute game ending in mutas/lurkers vs. tanks/mnm so they definitely weren't discussing it in the g4 VOD. I don't think Calm 12 pooled in game 4 though so I'm not sure what to say about that. Did U Watch 1st game @Monty Hall though. Where did HwaSin place barracket at three entrances of his main? Judge not lest ye hv seen all. Flocks see how U believed the sportsmanship advocated by Sino racists(Do u know what the hell it really is)! Confess now before my name! | ||
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