EPT
[ASL4] Ro4 Larva vs hero
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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Ty2
United States1434 Posts
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NbSky
Canada1023 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
A Flash vs Larva final would be tops. | ||
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2543 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12958 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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prosatan
Romania7764 Posts
 and i will miss it now cuz i cannot watch it ! hope u guys LR like crazy !! | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:02 BLinD-RawR wrote: TL is still flagging english streams offline, despite actually being online zzz :c | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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Heartland
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outscar
2832 Posts
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jtan
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RHoudini
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NickHotS
United States105 Posts
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BigFan
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r.Evo
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RHoudini
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outscar
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Netto.
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jtan
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Burned Toast
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Heartland
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Burned Toast
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jtan
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
Nice try | ||
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
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Meiya
Australia1169 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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RHoudini
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Meiya
Australia1169 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:23 Burned Toast wrote: Those colors are so similar... I'm getting confused at every lings clash. ya. I kept thinking hero made an inbase hatch and had a nat one too and was sooo confused how he was ahead until I finally noticed it's brown... | ||
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
http://play.afreecatv.com/aslenglish2 for anyone who wants the alternative english stream since its not sticking to the sidebar :/ | ||
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Levque
88 Posts
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:26 Levque wrote: remastered screwed up the clarity of team colors. I miss the SD version so much. If they removed the dynamic lighting it would be fine | ||
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NickHotS
United States105 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:26 FlaShFTW wrote: who the hell voted no on this. that was an amazing game http://play.afreecatv.com/aslenglish2 for anyone who wants the alternative english stream since its not sticking to the sidebar :/ I did, there was nothing extraordinary about that game at all. Larvas all in failed and he got ran over. Bad game. ZvZ has much better potential than that. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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Meiya
Australia1169 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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ne4aJIb
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Heartland
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Stax736
United States119 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
1) if hero plays defensively, he'll have a better concave for when hero meets the attack at his choke 2) if hero plays aggressively, he'll backstab with the 10 or so lings and kill all of hero's drones, force him to pull his lings back while he goes for a frontal attack with the main ling force and snipe the hatch. obviously, he wanted hero to push, but the concave worked wonders as well and he managed to get that sick concave with a small ling advantage which made the fight even more one sided in his favor. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:26 Levque wrote: remastered screwed up the clarity of team colors. I miss the SD version so much. It screwed up the clarity of the graphics in general actually. | ||
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:46 gngfn wrote: Hero gg'd twice so in fact Larva is up 2-1 now Yeah WTF, KeSPA sleeping zzz... | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:46 gngfn wrote: Hero gg'd twice so in fact Larva is up 2-1 now I like this future. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:51 _Animus_ wrote: ZvZ day - tasteless and artosis day off :D They are also away for WCS world championship ; ) | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:51 _Animus_ wrote: ZvZ day - tasteless and artosis day off :D It's hundred times better to hear Rapid than Tastosis endlessly shouting jokes entire series. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:52 Heartland wrote: They are also away for WCS world championship ; ) Is that something like an ATM automated teller? =P | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Netto.
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Meiya
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BigFan
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fLyiNgDroNe
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Kerdinand
Germany113 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:53 outscar wrote: It's hundred times better to hear Rapid than Tastosis endlessly shouting jokes entire series. or watch me :D play.afreecatv.com/aslenglish2 | ||
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sephiria
106 Posts
you arent always on point with your analysis, but no other caster makes me happier when I get to listen to them. Idk how you do it, its like your excitement and passion radiates so brightly that its contagious. I love it. As for the game, I am rooting for larva, he is playing so well. I wonder how he always gains the zergling advantage in games that look about even (at least to me). | ||
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chuDr3t4
Russian Federation484 Posts
On October 29 2017 19:42 ne4aJIb wrote: 3-1 incoming! well? :D | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
3-1 to Larva! | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
Larva DQ. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
disqualified. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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BigFan
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ne4aJIb
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:14 ne4aJIb wrote: 3-2 incoming! prophet | ||
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:16 outscar wrote: I'm not even going to watch finals if herO ZvZ his way to finals. The winner of Bisu vs. FlaSh can auto get trophy. zzzzzzzz once again with the shitty attitude from you people. good lord. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:16 outscar wrote: I'm not even going to watch finals if herO ZvZ his way to finals. The winner of Bisu vs. FlaSh can auto get trophy. Lol its already over pal. Flash won this tournament as soon as soulkey got knocked out. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:17 FlaShFTW wrote: zzzzzzzz once again with the shitty attitude from you people. good lord. Well I'm pretty sick from FlaSh 3 0 ing every finals. Gets ultra boring. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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chuDr3t4
Russian Federation484 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:16 outscar wrote: I'm not even going to watch finals if herO ZvZ his way to finals. The winner of Bisu vs. FlaSh can auto get trophy. As much as I am rooting for larva, what a shitty attitude. Maybe players should be forced to play all 3 races in Bo3? 1 matchup is 33% of the game for the player and JD climbed Elo rankings because of JvZ and that proves that ZvZ is not as random as ppl think. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
If hero advances here and Bisu wins, there's a chance for a good finals. If hero advances and Flash wins, well ya lol. If larva advances, then whether it's Bisu or Flash who advances, it should be good regardless. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:18 outscar wrote: Well I'm pretty sick from FlaSh 3 0 ing every finals. Gets ultra boring. yeah im a fan of zvz, but when a player is a zvz specialist its just not cool for overall tournament. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:18 outscar wrote: Well I'm pretty sick from FlaSh 3 0 ing every finals. Gets ultra boring. im sorry but then just dont watch starcraft for any tournament that flash is in if thats the way you're going to think. its a toxic mentality to have and it spits in the face of all the other progamers that have worked so hard to get to the level they are. incredibly disrespectful | ||
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3809 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:23 FlopTurnReaver wrote: Any1 else getting some heavy lag? no lag here try changing the quality to high from source. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:22 FlaShFTW wrote: im sorry but then just dont watch starcraft for any tournament that flash is in if thats the way you're going to think. its a toxic mentality to have and it spits in the face of all the other progamers that have worked so hard to get to the level they are. incredibly disrespectful That's what I'm going to do until some of pros will learn not to get 0 3 on finals vs God. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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nurle
Norway308 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:28 BigFan wrote: why is larva massing lings? Like, he saw the spire and such. Why not be conservative, make sunken, get another hatch w/e because thats his style? | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:28 BigFan wrote: why is larva massing lings? Like, he saw the spire and such. Why not be conservative, make sunken, get another hatch w/e He did the same last game as well. =( | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Meiya
Australia1169 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12958 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
rip dream. =( | ||
GTR
51397 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2713 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
Great job by Rapid too! | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
Gratz to him. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:35 outscar wrote: RIP another finals. Time to stop watching BW. dont let the door hit you on the way out. | ||
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
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feckless
1099 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:35 jtan wrote: Well played by Hero. Yep. Too bad for Larva though. On October 29 2017 20:35 outscar wrote: RIP another finals. Time to stop watching BW.  | ||
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pinkbowtie1
23 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:33 GTR wrote: awaiting the salt of hero anti-fans saying he rode off zvz to the finals but, he did theres no way hes even close to top 4 (which might be soulkey, effort, flash, bisu) but here he is, in the finals | ||
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sertman
United States540 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:34 Terrorbladder wrote: Oh well at least FlashFTW's biased as hell cast can shove it. I wouldn't mind it so much if he wasn't so fucking arrogant lol. Grats to herO! Hoping for the dream in the finals. | ||
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:33 GTR wrote: awaiting the salt of hero anti-fans saying he rode off zvz to the finals I am not sure what is worse: being salt about hero zvz to the finals, or trying to deny this fact at all cost. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:36 pinkbowtie1 wrote: but, he did theres no way hes even close to top 4 (which might be soulkey, effort, flash, bisu) but here he is, in the finals That has always happened through history of BW and people were not so fast to jump on the player in question. From time to time people get to do this. The draw is not Heroe's fault, don't hate him. | ||
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NeoFlash
21 Posts
And congrats to Flash for another title :D | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:40 KobraKay wrote: That has always happened through history of BW and people were not so fast to jump on the player in question. From time to time people get to do this. The draw is not Heroe's fault, don't hate him. well the only way to shut anyone up is to win the finals | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
but im still sad that due to group/bracket draw he knocked out effort, soulkey and larva by having an all-zerg group and all-zerg bracket. | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:36 pinkbowtie1 wrote: but, he did theres no way hes even close to top 4 (which might be soulkey, effort, flash, bisu) but here he is, in the finals Maybe Soulkey and Effort should have considered not losing to him then if they were the better players :^) | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
Best get out super early, then Stork showing bad play, Jaedong got eliminated, Soulkey the main pretendent for dethroning Flash choked and throw 2 games vs Hero also eliminated, Rain dissapointed everyone, now the last hope for good finals is gone with Larva. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:34 Terrorbladder wrote: Oh well at least FlashFTW's biased as hell cast can shove it. awwww show me on the teddy bear where i touched you c: | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:41 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: he beat great z players - effort, sk, larva! That's the point: the true 3 zergs who could have a chance, even win on finals. | ||
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mauwee
Vatican City State78 Posts
Lol its already over pal. Flash won this tournament as soon as soulkey got knocked out. Soulkey had no chance vs. Flash either...... Shit, that kid couldn't find his way through a maze even if the rats helped him. | ||
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reminisce12
Australia318 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:36 pinkbowtie1 wrote: but, he did theres no way hes even close to top 4 (which might be soulkey, effort, flash, bisu) but here he is, in the finals yet he beat 2 of ur top 4... | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:36 pinkbowtie1 wrote: but, he did theres no way hes even close to top 4 (which might be soulkey, effort, flash, bisu) but here he is, in the finals thats how a single tournament works...the best players/teams wont always make it to were they should be. you have effort in your top4 and he never delivered in the last seasons of ASL | ||
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feckless
1099 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:43 outscar wrote: That's the point: the true 3 zergs who could have a chance, even win on finals. So tell your buddies to win next time. Unless you just expected hero to roll over and play dead for them. I like all three of those players, but this is just ridiculous. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:37 sertman wrote: I wouldn't mind it so much if he wasn't so fucking arrogant lol. Grats to herO! Hoping for the dream in the finals. ???? nani? | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3996 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:41 Angra wrote: Maybe Soulkey and Effort should have considered not losing to him then if they were the better players :^) dude nobody disputes hero's outstanding zvz skill. The main problem here is that hero only had to play zvz (except for the group when he 2-0'ed SNOW of all people) and we are seriously questioning his chances to not be 0-3 in the finals. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
I said, during the group ceremony for the ro16, that I really wished we didn't end up with a flash vs hero in the finals, that was my biggest fear, and more and more it seems to be coming to reality. I DON'T want another utterly disappointing finals like the last one. Please hero, I hope you'll bring it against whoever you'll end up facing :/ I really hope it's gonna be bisu though! | ||
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chuDr3t4
Russian Federation484 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12958 Posts
I actually think it'll be very close if he's playing Bisu as he's always been a top ZvP player. But if it's vs Flash he's going to get torched. But in all honesty there's maybe 3 guys youd give a realistic chance of beating flash in a bo5 and that's Bisu, SK and effort. | ||
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
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Levque
88 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:49 FlaShFTW wrote: im glad we can finally see the fans who are the true brood war fans who will stick around regardless and not some fake fairweathere fans who are only here for games they think will be good and leave when they dont like results. dont let the door hit you on the way out. the rest of us will be watching a very entertaining semifinals and finals. who's leaving besides outscar? | ||
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Eleonora
29 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:40 KobraKay wrote: That has always happened through history of BW and people were not so fast to jump on the player in question. From time to time people get to do this. The draw is not Heroe's fault, don't hate him. I agree hate isn't justified, although i haven't seen much here anyway. It's just very disappointing for plenty of reasons. Larva has shown a tremendous form recently on stream, and has a lot more charisma and character than herO who appears pretty bland in comparison. I'd be happy for him in about every other instance (with the exception of Bisu), but because of his victory we won't get to see the conclusion of a slightly interesting rivalry between Flash and Larva (started on stream but also continued during the Ro16 draft, and Flash had stated that he thought Larva was the real dark horse in ASL 4). Could have been the pinacle of PvZ too if Bisu goes on to win Tuesday (and a fantastic follow-up considering what happened between Larva and Rain). I usually can't stand people who just pretend "tournament is done before it's played because X or Y got eliminated and now Flash has won etc", but in this case i'm quite afraid to see a pretty one-sided final. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
from what it sounds like, quite a few people in this forum wont be watching the finals because "MUH BORING FINALS" | ||
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Piste
6167 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:42 _Animus_ wrote: The very first korean Remastered tournament is surely the tournament of upsets. Best get out super early, then Stork showing bad play, Jaedong got eliminated, Soulkey the main pretendent for dethroning Flash choked and throw 2 games vs Hero also eliminated, Rain dissapointed hard, now the last hope for good finals is gone with Larva. Those might be upsets for the fans of the players that you listed, but not upsets in the traditional sense where better player loses;) I'm happy for hero, he has shown strenght in ZvZ this season. If Bisu manages to beat Flash, the grand finals have potential to be quite exciting as hero is ZvP specialist. But if Flash goes to the finals, then I will be sad that Larva didn't make it since Flash would propably just make the series one sided. I hope hero will prove me wrong tho. | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:52 FlaShFTW wrote: from what it sounds like, quite a few people in this forum wont be watching the finals because "MUH BORING FINALS" I'll defintely watch, not even the slightest doubt in my mind. If it's hero vs flash I just won't waste my time taking the subway all the way across seoul to end up seeing flash destroy another zerg 3-0. I'll just stay home in that case. | ||
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Dantak
Czech Republic648 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:54 Essbee wrote: I'll defintely watch, not even the slightest doubt in my mind. If it's hero vs flash I just won't waste my time taking the subway all the way across seoul to end up seeing flash destroy another zerg 3-0. I'll just stay home in that case. then that's your prerogative. I'm ok with people not wanting to watch a finals if they dont want to. do whatever you want. im just calling them out for being fair-weather fans. | ||
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Piste
6167 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:55 Dantak wrote: Who has more chances against Flash? herO or Larva? In other words: are we glad about the results for the sake of interesting finals? Psst, Flash is not in the finals yet. He still needs to get trought his biggest threat in the tournament! We must all cheer for Bisu for the sake of interesting finals;) | ||
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:59 TRAP[yoo] wrote: i would watch flash crush hero live if i had the chance to same | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12958 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:56 FlaShFTW wrote: then that's your prerogative. I'm ok with people not wanting to watch a finals if they dont want to. do whatever you want. im just calling them out for being fair-weather fans. I'm a huge bw fan, that's why I'm here in the first place, I'll never stop watching bw. I care about great games, not the players themselves. I don't believe in hero bringing great games, at all. I am just hoping I am totally wrong and hero prepares very well. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:02 Essbee wrote: I'm a huge bw fan, that's why I'm here in the first place, I'll never stop watching bw. I care about great games, not the players themselves. I don't believe in hero bringing great games, at all. I am just hoping I am totally wrong and hero prepares very well. i guess all I can say is, you better hope the games are bad otherwise you'll be kicking yourself for not going in person. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:02 Essbee wrote: I'm a huge bw fan, that's why I'm here in the first place, I'll never stop watching bw. I care about great games, not the players themselves. I don't believe in hero bringing great games, at all. I am just hoping I am totally wrong and hero prepares very well. well idk what u were watching then,cuz hero won 1 SSL and loss other 2-3 to Bisu,and smashed flash in sponsored matches ... he just doesnt play 100000 games vs flash like larva does where he wins 23 from 150 | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
Your name is literally "FlashFTW", of course you would. | ||
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Levque
88 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:54 Essbee wrote: I'll defintely watch, not even the slightest doubt in my mind. If it's hero vs flash I just won't waste my time taking the subway all the way across seoul to end up seeing flash destroy another zerg 3-0. I'll just stay home in that case. I'd still go just to see Flash play in person...how many foreigners can say they got to do that? | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:04 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: well idk what u were watching then,cuz hero won 1 SSL and loss other 2-3 to Bisu,and smashed flash in sponsored matches ... he just doesnt play 100000 games vs flash like larva does where he wins 23 from 150 Did he? Smashed flash? I mean, if you are right, that's straight up awesome. I didn't know and I watch their streams daily (not all of them at the same time, obviously) | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:05 Essbee wrote: Did he? Smashed flash? I mean, if you are right, that's straight up awesome. I didn't know and I watch their streams daily (not all of them at the same time, obviously) man at some point even FlaSh said hero was the best zerg... | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:04 Essbee wrote: Your name is literally "FlashFTW", of course you would. i would indeed, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I would also watch any other finals live, even if it was Ample vs Miso in the finals, if I was given the opportunity. Considering that I'm in school and don't have the time to go to korea, I can't do that. If FlaSh were to lose to Bisu in the semis on Tuesday, you're damn right I'm still going to the finals live if I could. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
This is pretty reminiscent of Last's run through SSL10 playing mostly TvT until he reached the finals against sSak and lost 3-2 lol. | ||
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CognacLover
Poland66 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:04 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: well idk what u were watching then,cuz hero won 1 SSL and loss other 2-3 to Bisu,and smashed flash in sponsored matches ... he just doesnt play 100000 games vs flash like larva does where he wins 23 from 150 Hero was trash since that SSL. He was losing to Flash even when he was smurfing and practicing with TimeNa account. If it'll be bo9 he will get 5 consecutive losses. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:07 BigFan wrote: What part im exaggerating ?? cuz i remember pretty clear flash said it.i remember hero destroyed flash in that map La Mancha.and that day he said that about himeon is exaggerating. Larva is definitely a much stronger player in ZvT compared to hero. This is pretty reminiscent of Last's run through SSL10 playing mostly TvT until he reached the finals against sSak and lost 3-2 lol. | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:07 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: man at some point even FlaSh said hero was the best zerg... When was that? I saw them play each other like a week ago but as I remember, I think flash won most of the games. But I saw hero watching replays of flash, so that was a nice touch. Btw, since you are one of the best foreign zerg, do you give hero a chance vs flash then? Please give me some hope so I do end up going to the finals lol. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:07 BigFan wrote: eon is exaggerating. Larva is definitely a much stronger player in ZvT compared to hero. This is pretty reminiscent of Last's run through SSL10 playing mostly TvT until he reached the finals against sSak and lost 3-2 lol. kind of funny ssak wins pretty often larva eh ?? | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:07 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: man at some point even FlaSh said hero was the best zerg... well, this was probably back in 2015 when hero was messing people up. though flash wasn't back yet though... hmmm... hero was never good between 2016-early 2017. im curious when he said that. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:10 Essbee wrote: When was that? I saw them play each other like a week ago but as I remember, I think flash won most of the games. But I was hero watching replays of flash, so that was a nice touch. Btw, since you are one of the best foreign zerg, do you give hero a chance vs flash then? Please give me some hope so I do end up going to the finals lol. hero has the same chances larva had,with the only difference that one has experience playing in big stages. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11285 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10095 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:12 c3rberUs wrote: Lol, FlashFTW's favorites will both be in the finals at this rate. I, once again, see nothing wrong with this. :D though I would have preferred FlaSh v Larva. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:11 FlaShFTW wrote: well, this was probably back in 2015 when hero was messing people up. though flash wasn't back yet though... hmmm... hero was never good between 2016-early 2017. im curious when he said that. if we wanna talk about good then talk about effort,proly the best player in every period that just trashed his tournaments runs with bo1 | ||
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Wonk
546 Posts
Tournaments are always going to have upsets and lucky streaks, You need the random element. If it was a perfect 1:1 translation of player skill to finishing placement, it would never be fun to watch, and everybody would always know the victor. But that doesn't mean it can't feel a little unfair sometimes. I'm really hoping that Hero can take a few games off Flash/Bisu. Not as hopeful as I would be were SK/Larva in his place, but I want a great finals and I hope he can deliver them. hero hwaiting! | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:07 FlaShFTW wrote: i would indeed, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I would also watch any other finals live, even if it was Ample vs Miso in the finals, if I was given the opportunity. Considering that I'm in school and don't have the time to go to korea, I can't do that. If FlaSh were to lose to Bisu in the semis on Tuesday, you're damn right I'm still going to the finals live if I could. Yeah I understand, I was saying the same thing before I got to see a game live. You may not know this, but I was going to live games since the sonic starleague days, I was the only foreigner going there at that time, literally the only foreigner crazy enough to be in korea for bw when bw was almost dead lol, and since it was my first time, I enjoyed it a lot. The magic kind of disappeared after a few years, so that's why I always judge if I should go or not. It's pretty sad I know, I wish I wouldn't judge and just go, but me having to skip some work and take the subway for hours just to see a disappointing finals just isn't worth it :/ | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:10 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: What part im exaggerating ?? cuz i remember pretty clear flash said it.i remember hero destroyed flash in that map La Mancha.and that day he said that about him should be pretty obvious: "vs flash like larva does where he wins 23 from 150" It's well known that Larva is one of the better performing zergs against Flash atm. Also, not sure why you bring SSL. I mean, not a single point was disputing the potential for good final games if Bisu advances but against Flash of all people? Maybe if he practices and preps hard, hero can win some games but winning the whole series will be difficult. On October 29 2017 21:10 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: kind of funny ssak wins pretty often larva eh ?? so, losing to sSak who just beat Last, Jaedong etc... last ASL convincingly and who seems to have a high potential if he legit practices is a blemish on Larva's record? I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
about ssak u tell me,it looks to me u made his ssl run less impresive no? | ||
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:18 BigFan wrote: so, losing to sSak who just beat Last, Jaedong etc... last ASL convincingly and who seems to have a high potential if he legit practices is a blemish on Larva's record? I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here. He just dislikes Larva or something and brings some 2016 game of hero vs flash on La Mancha, which, in his opinion is more valuable resource then countless of recent games Larva palyed against flash. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:33 Netto. wrote: He just dislikes Larva or something and brings some 2016 game of hero vs flash on La Mancha, which, in his opinion is more valuable resource then countless of recent games Larva palyed against flash. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. i actually like larva,we are Friends on Skype :/ | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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CognacLover
Poland66 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:54 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: i just dont understand this false believe that Larva will trash flash in a finals and everyone is hating hero ,liek what the hell ? this guy is a regular player from proleague,had results in OSL and won the Sonic starleague vs Bisu.im pretty sure he will prepare zvt and do a good job.and will not fall by nerves. It's not about nerves or something. Hero doesn't have capability to keep up with Flash. Yes, he won't die instantly, he will get to mid game, get his swarm and there Flash will start rolling him up with mech, his macro play isn't good unlike Larvas, where Larva can keep up with macro god up to 40 min. Hero needs to finish him fastly, put godlike muta and ling micro, contain him. But from history you know none of cheesy strats worked against Flash, even Shine's mastermind tactics which led him finals wasn't barely enough to win a single game. Only way to win is to go toe to toe with Flash and one of the zergs who is capable to do that is Larva. | ||
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
What is more, your point about Larva having weak winrate against Flash is stupid. At least he practices against him a lot and some of the games are really top top level ZvT. How many games hero played vs Flash? And how many of those he won (besides 2016 game on la mancha)? Lastly I would like to point out that I am not hating on hero. He won in fair games so he deserves to be where he is. But I just cannot agree with statement that his ZvT is on Larva or Soulkey level. | ||
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
then we can have the best of both worlds (sort of) bisu vs hero larva vs flash | ||
Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
On October 29 2017 22:04 phosphorylation wrote: time for bisu to upset flash then we can have the best of both worlds (sort of) bisu vs hero larva vs flash I can live with this | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
Wait.... there's a third place match??? I had no idea, if that's true, then FUCK YEAH, please bisu win!!! :p | ||
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weiliem
2061 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia358 Posts
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
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chuDr3t4
Russian Federation484 Posts
On October 29 2017 23:12 Burned Toast wrote: VODs of today's matches (with spoilers and links) are available in the Small Vod Thread. thx m8 | ||
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weiliem
2061 Posts
We never know what's gonna happen between Flash n Bisu..... | ||
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wander
Japan45 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Bisu destroys Flash, and rolls herO in the finals! | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
But doesn't he has something like a ~30% winrate vs flash? And we all know that a 70% winrate is bonjwa lvl dominating in BW. So I don't know where the opinion comes from that larva is this super hero zerg that is on par with flash, while hero will get absolutely crushed. They are both huge underdogs, with one of them having zero big stage experience. (hint: it's not hero) | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
Seriously, hero wtf. Nobody wants you here. | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3343 Posts
On October 30 2017 00:56 Disregard wrote: Damn it ZvZ killing our chances to watch a Larva vs Flash or Bisu. FUUUUUUUUUUUU!!! Well there is the 3rd place match | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
On October 30 2017 00:01 Keniji wrote: I am with eonzerg on this one, and I really enjoy watching larva as well. But doesn't he has something like a ~30% winrate vs flash? And we all know that a 70% winrate is bonjwa lvl dominating in BW. So I don't know where the opinion comes from that larva is this super hero zerg that is on par with flash, while hero will get absolutely crushed. They are both huge underdogs, with one of them having zero big stage experience. (hint: it's not hero) The opinion comes from his ZvT games and nowhere else and currently Soulkey, Larva and Effort are the best ZvTs. But hero ffs. This is the perfect case when a worse player scrapes out a victory in a the most unpredictable matchup and ruins the finals for all of us. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: post scores of larva vs flash about ssak u tell me,it looks to me u made his ssl run less impresive no? what? you should be the one posting the stats because you are the one claiming that larva wins 23 from 150 games. You realize that comes out to 15%, right? There is absolutely no way that Larva is winning 1 game from every 7 that they play, not when he's had days where he smacks Flash around for several in a row. There is a larva report thread that gets updated on a decent enough basis. I suggest you give it a look for more info: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522647-larvas-progress-report I was talking about Last's run to the finals, not sSak. Last made the SSL10 finals playing mostly stellar TvT, much like hero made the finals playing stellar ZvZ. That's all there was to my statement. Also, why do you keep bringing up sSak? I've already said that I think he has huge potential when he actually practices. He can legit be the second best terran behind Flash if he actually dedicates time to BW but he doesn't give a shit XD On October 29 2017 21:33 Netto. wrote: He just dislikes Larva or something and brings some 2016 game of hero vs flash on La Mancha, which, in his opinion is more valuable resource then countless of recent games Larva palyed against flash. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. I'm honestly not sure what 2016 game he's talking about but the skill level changes so much for these guys. If we want to consider the best ZvTer right now, we have to look at the most recent games. Larva is one of the leading players against Flash with EffOrt and Soulkey. On October 29 2017 21:54 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: i just dont understand this false believe that Larva will trash flash in a finals and everyone is hating hero ,liek what the hell ? this guy is a regular player from proleague,had results in OSL and won the Sonic starleague vs Bisu.im pretty sure he will prepare zvt and do a good job.and will not fall by nerves. No one said Larva will trash Flash. Most are saying that there is a chance that the finals would be much better and more enjoyable if Larva actually advanced to meet Flash compared to hero who's ZvT has always been pretty bad. PL/OSL/SSL performance is great stuff and I always refer to it in my writeups because there's value in history, however, the environment is extremely different from then. Yes, hero was great and won SSL11 but his ZvT has always looked pretty weak. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
Well he can still battle for third place. | ||
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
hero is statistically better than Larva in spon matches, albeit the very small sample. hero vs Larva Z 6W 1L 85.7% Larva actually did pretty well forcing a closer match than expected. Flash win rate vs hero Z 54W 14L 79.4% Larva Z 159W 71L 69.1% So yes, statistically Larva has a better chance of winning vs Flash, but hero is really just better vs Larva. And here we are. Next up, Flash is 66.7% vs Bisu in spons -- Flash has a chance to win with a slight edge. If that happens then the finals will most likely be a TvZ stomp. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On October 30 2017 01:35 orvinreyes wrote: So far the 6-month spon match records are still on point when it comes to likelihood of outcomes in the ASL. hero is statistically better than Larva in spon matches, albeit the very small sample. hero vs Larva Z 6W 1L 85.7% Larva actually did pretty well forcing a closer match than expected. Flash win rate vs hero Z 54W 14L 79.4% Larva Z 159W 71L 69.1% So yes, statistically Larva has a better chance of winning vs Flash, but hero is really just better vs Larva. And here we are. Next up, Flash is 66.7% vs Bisu in spons -- Flash has a chance to win with a slight edge. If that happens then the finals will most likely be a TvZ stomp. Thanks for posting the stats. Do you have anything for Sept/Oct for Larva vs Flash? I want to see those stats the most. | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On October 30 2017 01:40 BigFan wrote: Thanks for posting the stats. Do you have anything for Sept/Oct for Larva vs Flash? I want to see those stats the most. Over the course of sepember and october, Larva is 19:66 vs Flash and Hero is 5:18. Both are huge underdogs. Vs Bisu Larva is 18:34 and Hero is 8:17. Currently Hero is 9th in the Elo rankings from online money matches, while Larva is 13th. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:21 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: yeah im a fan of zvz, but when a player is a zvz specialist its just not cool for overall tournament. If anything herO is a ZvP specialist... | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 29 2017 20:46 _Animus_ wrote: Afreeca need to announce another ASL soon to keep vewers interest, because this is over. All depends on who wins other semi. herO is best known for his ZvP, so if we had a suprise and Bisu wins it should be a good finals. I'd still pick Bisu to win, but herO has about as good of a chance as anyone in that MU. Versus FlaSh...well ya lol. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4103 Posts
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james1024
118 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 29 2017 21:54 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: i just dont understand this false believe that Larva will trash flash in a finals and everyone is hating hero ,liek what the hell ? this guy is a regular player from proleague,had results in OSL and won the Sonic starleague vs Bisu.im pretty sure he will prepare zvt and do a good job.and will not fall by nerves. I don't think (I hope anyway) that people think Larva will trash FlaSh. In fact, I'd be suprised if most people even thought Larva would beat Flash. If they do, well in my opinion they are a little crazy in the head. With that in mind, I thought Larva has as good a chance to beat FlaSh as anyone, except EffOrt...who I would say has similar chances. Those chances though, for either zerg, are quite low. I'd expect a 3-1 in FlaSh v Larva, with a small possibility of 3-2 or 3-0 in favor of FlaSh. In the case of herO I expect a 3-0 with the games being pretty onesided. I don't really see too many people trashing herO, outside of saying he has no real chance against Flash, which I rather agree with. I see a few people trashing the bracket design that allowed herO to play a ton of ZvZ to get into the finals, but more or less everybody was saying herO played well and has good ZvZ. People are only upset because they would have rather had a Larva v Flash finals, with a slightly better chance of zerg victory and better chance of quality long games. Perhaps herO will surprise, but in general his ZvT does not look or seem impressive. If Bisu wins we will have a fantastic finals in all likelihood. HerO can play some serious ZvP. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
I think it will be bisu in the finals, flash doesn't feel like he's on the top of his game at the moment | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
a shame flash is gonna trounce bisu so his zvp doesnt matter | ||
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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TT1
Canada9990 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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lemmata
468 Posts
Furthermore, he has ideal practice partners in Mini and Last regardless of the finals match up. I would expect hero to put up a better fight on the big stage than larva regardless of the recent surge by larva. Regarding his ZvT, there was a period of time when hero was destroying Terrans to such an extent that Effort and Zero studied his VODs to figure out what was going on. He's not always on top of his ZvT game, but he's got a unique style that's slightly off the usual ZvT standard patterns. Granted, he is streaky in that matchup, but that works in his favor against a behemoth like Flash. No one can beat Flash without getting a little streaky. Of course, I expect Flash to beat everyone, but hero can make it closer than you would think. | ||
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JaeyunSC
3 Posts
If you want to talk talent, Effort’s your man. Nobody wants to play that guy in a 5-game series. I was rooting for Larva as well and I think from a hype perspective that would generate the most interest rather than seeing Hero. But it’s absolutely absurd to say Larva would beat Flash and Hero would get crushed 3-0. It’s one thing to say Larva has a better shot, like 5-10% better odds, but to polarize the results like that is craziness. Hero is not Shine. Not saying Hero won’t get 3-0’d, it can surely happen, but it’s not like Larva would’ve had much better odds. Also, if Bisu comes out, he wouldn’t be ecstatic to face Hero’s ZvP. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bisu was sad that Hero came out instead of SK/Larva. Flash was probably happy, though. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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geod
Vietnam450 Posts
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Barneyk
Sweden304 Posts
Surprising to see all 5 games play out so decisively and straight forward. The proxy hatch didn't make much sense, Hero knew something was up as soon as he saw Larvas main. I have very fond memories of watching Hero back in the day so I am really happy to watch him get to the finals, but Larva has more hype and personality at the moment so I was torn about who to root for. I am a bigger fan of Hero but Larva had momentum. I feel torn about Bisu vs. Flash as well, I would love to see Bisu get another gold before going off to the army but Flash winning 3 straight would also be cool. But I might even root for Hero in the finals, that would be cool as hell. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
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traxamillion
104 Posts
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
On October 30 2017 11:42 traxamillion wrote: Larva is one of my favorite players but her0 doesn't actually have that much less equity than him vs flash. Effort has prob 40%, larva 33%, hero 25%. Something like that. I've seen her0 beat top tier terrans plenty of times. He has good mechanics; high apm and eapm. He has good queen control and his swarms and drops might not be soulkey level but it's close. He plays well on LAN too That gives me hope, thanks. I'll watch hero's stream when I can. But he doesn't seem to be online very often | ||
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
On October 30 2017 01:40 BigFan wrote: Thanks for posting the stats. Do you have anything for Sept/Oct for Larva vs Flash? I want to see those stats the most. From 9/5 - 10/28 Flash T vs Larva Z 66W 19L 77.6% Yikes. I guess Flash has been getting so used to his style over the months. Not looking good for Larva. | ||
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blueblimp
Canada297 Posts
Game 4 (Crossing Field): 12 hatch mirror. When Hero hits 304 minerals, Larva is only at 264! Hero's hatchery starts multiple seconds before Larva can even afford his. Hero's pool and gas are also significantly earlier. Game 2 (Gladiator): Also 12 hatch mirror. Hero's hatchery starts significantly earlier than Larva's. | ||
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chrisolo
Germany2606 Posts
On October 30 2017 14:09 blueblimp wrote: Can someone explain how Hero is better at mining than Larva? Game 4 (Crossing Field): 12 hatch mirror. When Hero hits 304 minerals, Larva is only at 264! Hero's hatchery starts multiple seconds before Larva can even afford his. Hero's pool and gas are also significantly earlier. Game 2 (Gladiator): Also 12 hatch mirror. Hero's hatchery starts significantly earlier than Larva's. Better split, better choice of mineral patches mined and last but not least (probably the most important part, since I doubt Larva would suck at the first two) also luck. Sometimes worker take a longer route than optimal. You can try to force them into a better return cargo route by placing your buildings in certain spaces, but when you go 12 Hatch you do not really have a building as a zerg to optimize the return cargo route. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On October 30 2017 16:38 chrisolo wrote: Better split, better choice of mineral patches mined and last but not least (probably the most important part, since I doubt Larva would suck at the first two) also luck. Sometimes worker take a longer route than optimal. You can try to force them into a better return cargo route by placing your buildings in certain spaces, but when you go 12 Hatch you do not really have a building as a zerg to optimize the return cargo route. You can also "teach" your workers to take better routes in some cases; also, not only are there differences between different mineral patches, but there is also worker micro in selecting which mineral to send a Drone to when you are at low count of Drones but more than mineral patches. I haven't seen Larva doing it much in his recent games (I also haven't been watching as much), but I do recall seeing him do it in the past. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
On October 30 2017 14:09 blueblimp wrote: Can someone explain how Hero is better at mining than Larva? Game 4 (Crossing Field): 12 hatch mirror. When Hero hits 304 minerals, Larva is only at 264! Hero's hatchery starts multiple seconds before Larva can even afford his. Hero's pool and gas are also significantly earlier. Game 2 (Gladiator): Also 12 hatch mirror. Hero's hatchery starts significantly earlier than Larva's. Certain starting positions mine better than others | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On October 30 2017 11:58 reincremate wrote: Larva had a spectacular run for someone who's previously never made it past the first round group stage in the ASL. Honestly, Larva has been a player with a lot of potential for a long time. I would say that nerves were a big issue in the first three ASLs since his games in the first group stage were horrible. Seems he's finally starting to get used to the stage, and it has definitely translated into more confident play from him as well. | ||
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mcmascote
Brazil1575 Posts
He prolly loses handily to Bisu too, but the MU favors him. @Taardadiel, and how do you expect Her0 to play Bisu? Maybe he'll go for hydra busts... Is that more enjoyable? Because taking the natural of an empty main and defending it to guarantee a 4th gas is an universal strategy of zergs nowadays. Then it's up for the toss how the game will proceed. Rain and Bisu are good enough to keep attacking and harassing keeping the zerg play defensively if not, if a toss decide to play defensive as well then the Z can be aggressive. Larva's muta's switches are a joy to watch if you let him have the economy to do it, his multitask is also insane. It was Rain that forced him to turtle. Now outside of Crossing Field and prolly gladiator, taking a natural and guaranteeing a 4th gas is standard and if HerO tries to play cute against Bisu he's gonna get destroyed. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On October 30 2017 20:22 mcmascote wrote: So sad Larva lost. Now if you're neutral you better hope for a ZvP final, because he has no chance (outside of cheeses) against Flash. He prolly loses handily to Bisu too, but the MU favors him. @Taardadiel, and how do you expect Her0 to play Bisu? Maybe he'll go for hydra busts... Is that more enjoyable? Because taking the natural of an empty main and defending it to guarantee a 4th gas is an universal strategy of zergs nowadays. Then it's up for the toss how the game will proceed. Rain and Bisu are good enough to keep attacking and harassing keeping the zerg play defensively if not, if a toss decide to play defensive as well then the Z can be aggressive. Larva's muta's switches are a joy to watch if you let him have the economy to do it, his multitask is also insane. It was Rain that forced him to turtle. Now outside of Crossing Field and prolly gladiator, taking a natural and guaranteeing a 4th gas is standard and if HerO tries to play cute against Bisu he's gonna get destroyed. He's just gonna have Shine play for him | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On October 30 2017 20:22 mcmascote wrote: So sad Larva lost. Now if you're neutral you better hope for a ZvP final, because he has no chance (outside of cheeses) against Flash. He prolly loses handily to Bisu too, but the MU favors him. @Taardadiel, and how do you expect Her0 to play Bisu? Maybe he'll go for hydra busts... Is that more enjoyable? Because taking the natural of an empty main and defending it to guarantee a 4th gas is an universal strategy of zergs nowadays. Then it's up for the toss how the game will proceed. Rain and Bisu are good enough to keep attacking and harassing keeping the zerg play defensively if not, if a toss decide to play defensive as well then the Z can be aggressive. Larva's muta's switches are a joy to watch if you let him have the economy to do it, his multitask is also insane. It was Rain that forced him to turtle. Now outside of Crossing Field and prolly gladiator, taking a natural and guaranteeing a 4th gas is standard and if HerO tries to play cute against Bisu he's gonna get destroyed. Taking the quick 4 gas after turtling up on a second natural is absolutely NOT the universal strategy of Zergs nowadays. That style is actually pretty dated and was popular around Savior era to about 2010/2011. Even on FIghting Spirit, most Zergs nowadays opt to take their 3rd at their natural 3rd and not another main's natural. And while Protoss does have a couple options for aggressive play to stop that 4 gas style, such as 6-8 Gateway Dragoon bust on the simcity, it's almost always better for Protoss to simply do economic harassment and get even or ahead on bases and prepare for the lategame. It's like you don't even watch the game you're talking about. | ||
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JaeyunSC
3 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 31 2017 01:07 Jealous wrote: Taking the quick 4 gas after turtling up on a second natural is absolutely NOT the universal strategy of Zergs nowadays. That style is actually pretty dated and was popular around Savior era to about 2010/2011. Even on FIghting Spirit, most Zergs nowadays opt to take their 3rd at their natural 3rd and not another main's natural. And while Protoss does have a couple options for aggressive play to stop that 4 gas style, such as 6-8 Gateway Dragoon bust on the simcity, it's almost always better for Protoss to simply do economic harassment and get even or ahead on bases and prepare for the lategame. It's like you don't even watch the game you're talking about. Not to mention the whole "if herO tries to play cute he's gonna get destroyed". Maybe you would say that if you have no idea who herO is, but he is one of he best zergs in the scene. He seems to have slipped a smidge, but he's still a monster ZvPer. That said (and I don't watch herO's stream much at all so I could be wrong) herO has always been more of a fan of close base 3rd and 5/6 hatch aggression than the 4 gas camp style. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On October 31 2017 01:07 Jealous wrote: Taking the quick 4 gas after turtling up on a second natural is absolutely NOT the universal strategy of Zergs nowadays. That style is actually pretty dated and was popular around Savior era to about 2010/2011. Even on FIghting Spirit, most Zergs nowadays opt to take their 3rd at their natural 3rd and not another main's natural. And while Protoss does have a couple options for aggressive play to stop that 4 gas style, such as 6-8 Gateway Dragoon bust on the simcity, it's almost always better for Protoss to simply do economic harassment and get even or ahead on bases and prepare for the lategame. You were faster, it seems. And since mcmascote was asking me what I prefer, here, I'll tell you what I prefer: (first thing that comes to mind) I don't mind an occasional hydra bust in a bo5, I don't mind a proxy gate or two, or a 5pool. A single turtle game would be fine too, I guess, but the Rain vs Larva series got me a bit overboard after SK beat Rain in the Ro16 with something vaguely similar on Crossing Field and then Rain clashed head-on time and time again into a stellar defense for two more games in the Ro8. I guess Bisu would have had his own set of adjustments if he had to play against this style - which would make for more entertainment than 200/200 protoss army colliding with terrain, static D and immaculate, perfect observer sniping - but we'll never know, will we. | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On October 31 2017 03:06 TaardadAiel wrote: You were faster, it seems. And since mcmascote was asking me what I prefer, here, I'll tell you what I prefer: Sorry, didn't mean to butt in on your conversation, was just trying to address the dated stance he was taking. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On October 31 2017 03:22 Jealous wrote: Sorry, didn't mean to butt in on your conversation, was just trying to address the dated stance he was taking. Please, I never meant it that way. It was more like you said pretty much what I wanted to. Anyway, said build looked viable in the hands of larva. Rain looked pretty helpless, though he was close to busting in game 4. Was it just extremely well executed or a psychological blind spot for Rain, since you say zergs don't prefer it nowadays? | ||
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Jealous
10107 Posts
On October 31 2017 03:50 TaardadAiel wrote: Please, I never meant it that way. It was more like you said pretty much what I wanted to. Anyway, said build looked viable in the hands of larva. Rain looked pretty helpless, though he was close to busting in game 4. Was it just extremely well executed or a pshychological blind spot for Rain, since you say zergs don't prefer it nowadays? I haven't watched the series between Rain and Larva, been very busy and haven't had the chance to backtrack. If Rain played anything like how he did vs. Soulkey in groups, then I'd have to say that it was a conceptual error from Rain combined with suspect micro and tactical decisions. I read Kwark's recap a few days ago and he seems to agree with that. I've seen Larva do this build in practice more than other Zergs when I was watching more actively over the summer, and to great effect at times. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3682 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On November 02 2017 00:37 superjoppe wrote: Can her0 play ZvT? Seems we’re gonna have a very shitty final cause her0 is good at ZvZ. hero can play zvt he is very good at it a d we will have a great finals,he has a great macro multitask and his sucess doesnt depend in agresion like shine.i can promess you we will have a great finals.he is also a champion after the kespa era. | ||
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Piste
6167 Posts
On November 02 2017 00:37 superjoppe wrote: Oh man that logic is flawed. A player can be good at more than just single match up. Just ask flash.Can her0 play ZvT? Seems we’re gonna have a very shitty final cause her0 is good at ZvZ. | ||
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j2choe
Canada243 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On November 02 2017 00:41 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: hero can play zvt he is very good at it a d we will have a great finals,he has a great macro multitask and his sucess doesnt depend in agresion like shine.i can promess you we will have a great finals.he is also a champion after the kespa era. I agree with this. I've been watching Hero really take it to Mind on stream. Mind is no Flash, but Hero can ZvT pretty well. Even if it's a 3-0 the games should be pretty fun, and I can definitely see Hero taking a game. | ||
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