EPT[ASL4] Ro8 Larva vs Rain - Page 20
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
|
RKC
2848 Posts
| ||
|
art_of_turtle
United States1184 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + He's actually right about this | ||
|
geod
Vietnam450 Posts
On October 16 2017 11:30 reminisce12 wrote: problem with rain's play 1. always only had 1 obs with the main army and kept getting sniped. 2. kept attking into the zerg wall and getting flanked and bleeding units. 3. non stop harrass with shuttles, hts and dts, kept losing them, most time not doing much. Second, third, forth this. Rains constantly tried to break Zerg defense witth ONLY ONE OBS in late game while having the generosity of wasting so many resources on shuttle harash. I mean really wtf with this? | ||
|
L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 16 2017 14:43 geod wrote: Second, third, forth this. Rains constantly tried to break Zerg defense witth ONLY ONE OBS in late game while having the generosity of wasting so many resources on shuttle harash. I mean really wtf with this? Good point on number 1. That was poor play, especially in the last game where he was clearly trying to break. Maybe (but not really) you could give him a light pass in the previous games because I'm not sure his intent was really to break Larva, but rather to draw attention away to make drops more effective or fuck up Larva's positioning...but that still doesn't really excuse having just a single obs. The other two points I've already talked about, and I think that's much more a result of solid play from Larva than poor play from Rain. | ||
|
L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On October 16 2017 12:00 NoS-Craig wrote: L_Master that Larva vs Bisu game you linked was insane. Looked like Larva was on the brink of defeat several times but continued to hold on for dear life and wore Bisu out. I loved the last battle in that game, you could just tell by then it was the final battle because it was the only base left with resources. It's a stupid game, especially knowing how that would feel given I mained toss up until last year, but also a ridiculous and surprisingly entertaining one; and of course the level of play from Larva is crazy. You can argue Bisu didn't play that late game quite right, but it doesn't take away from how damn good that defense had to be to survive. | ||
|
reincremate
China2213 Posts
| ||
|
THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
On October 16 2017 13:01 RKC wrote: Botched execution by Rain and excellent defence by Larva aside, is there a different way to play as Protoss versus turtle Zerg? Must Protoss aggressively harass and break Zerg mid-game, or can Protoss play more conservatively, out-macro Zerg, and win at late game with a maxed out army and bigger bank? Nope. Protoss can't win unless the player is simply much better. PvZ winrate at high MMR is the lowest in the game at 40% or so. Matchup is broken. | ||
|
ppp87
Laos250 Posts
| ||
|
Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
| ||
|
Dante08
Singapore4128 Posts
| ||
|
THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
On October 16 2017 19:32 Dante08 wrote: Seems like Zerg tears are replaced with Protoss tears this season :D I mean, a buff to observer / cannon tankiness wouldn't be unwelcome. | ||
|
Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
It seemed working for a while, but as the game went on he had less and less chance to break. Why not turtle up himself? Instead of drops, just put together a huge archon ball with reavers and split the map. Add some corsairs with web. | ||
|
_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On October 16 2017 11:30 reminisce12 wrote: problem with rain's play 1. always only had 1 obs with the main army and kept getting sniped. 2. kept attking into the zerg wall and getting flanked and bleeding units. 3. non stop harrass with shuttles, hts and dts, kept losing them, most time not doing much. his reaver control was terrible all the time. Thing is he cannot play vs turtle zerg, he doesnt know how. That is obvious, when he have same number of bases, almost double supply and beast macro. If you are macro protoss and gain enough advantage to smash zerg army u go out on map and bust zerg, thats all you do. Instead he go on busting leave his reavers forward and concentrate on flying shuttles for suicide, then he lose both haras shuttles and his reavers at front... His attention was not on the right spots and was rather chaotic so he couldnt achieve a thing. Larva just go on and kill reavers and observers and its a constant circle. Rain had 180 limit larva 100, he had same amount of bases meaning he can macro out enough reinforcement to keep crushing zerg army until forever, so i have 0% of an idea why he just didnt make 2 shttles with reavers, more observers and go bust 1 spot controling and concentrating on that, zerg cant do shit in such disadvantage. | ||
|
Stax736
United States119 Posts
On October 16 2017 18:42 Xeln4g4 wrote: If Rain can not win PvZ playing like this ... no P can on earth. One of the best serie of PvZ imho. Rain is good, but he's not Bisu, Movie, or even Shuttle PvZ level. I mean Rain was constantly losing his shuttles, reavers, and observers, and he's just not creative enough with his harassment. Game 4 he could have won, but he kept going for these pointless all-ins in the late game. | ||
|
Piste
6177 Posts
| ||
|
Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
| ||
|
ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
I really did't like how Jeadong lost, I felt sorry for him. I remembered that commentators said that Jeadong gave some advices to Larva for ZvZ. I was hoping that will happen for ZvP too. So in this game that was a bit of Jeadongs head and Larvas hands to beat Rain | ||
|
ortseam
996 Posts
On October 16 2017 16:37 THE Sliggy wrote: Nope. Protoss can't win unless the player is simply much better. PvZ winrate at high MMR is the lowest in the game at 40% or so. Matchup is broken. Where exactly did you find these stats? | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
As a casual viewer with little to no grasp on the finer details of PvZ, it seems A BIT broken to me that Z can comfortably turtle until the protoss can muster enough of an army to even attempt a bust and then Z has to snipe specific tech-heavy gas-heavy units like reavers and observers (well, relatively gas-heavy). It's just an impression, please don't call the balance police on me. I suppose it's just a really good refinement of the current meta that causes a temporary slight shift. | ||
|
niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
Invest more heavily in Reavers, upgrade reaver capacity, and fucking camp in the middle of map, with 2 gases and bunch of minerals there. Im gonna do some theorycrafting now, but scourge caused big problems for rain. Maybe he could've researched hallucination, and hallucinated shuttles. Imo its usually not wise to force penetration on a turtling opponent. Much better to provoke him to have to attack, which makes his static defence pointless. So, like I said, take middle expo, turtle, tech (maybe even to DA or Arbiter). | ||
| ||
