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On September 28 2017 23:13 oEkY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2017 17:25 PVJ wrote:
So if I go by last season's draws we will have
D1 - B2
C1 - A2
B1 - C2
A1 - D2
Soulkey / Rain / Stork / Jd - hero
Bisu / Mind / Shuttle / Ssak - Killer
Larva - Bisu / Mind / Shuttle / Ssak
Flash - Soulkey / Rain / Stork / Jd
Which means Bisu and Larva can earliest possibly meet Flash in Ro4.
I guess the whole group C would be happy against Killer, Larva not so much.
Same for group D, but I'd have to say I think Soulkey might not mind having to go up against Flash. Rain, I don't know. Stork and Jd, I think, would hate to meet him and will try their hardest to go against hero.
There have always been offical bracket draws by the korean head moderator and the booth girl (dunno their names) after the last group of the round of 16 (at least in ASL S2 and ASL S3). The only things that are sure is that a player who advanced as #1 will meet a #2 player and that you cant get the same opponent as in the round of 16 again (no A#1 vs A#2 for example)
I didn't remember that part but now that you mention it I felt weird after initially writing up something like A1 - C2 | A2 - C1 and so on and then finding on the Liquipedia page how assymetric ASL3's Ro8 was. Thanks!
The funny thing is that this still doesn't change much, everyone will want to avoid Flash and most Larva too.
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On September 26 2017 21:36 TaardadAiel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 20:46 Greg_J wrote:
We need to be careful complaining too much about casters. Because they do nothing but add content that you don't have to listen to anyway if you don’t like it. There are other options out there and if you really don’t like the official English stream watch the Korean or FlashFTW streams. I understand the criticism of Artosis and Tasteless because they don't always sound very professional. Entertainment is completely subjective so you should just watch what you enjoy in my opinion.
We have had awesome casters quit before because of abuse and complaints when a lot of people really enjoyed their work and many people really missed them when they were gone. We should learn from our mistakes as a community and also the casters themselves should analyze their own performance and consider if they can improve.
I thank everyone that is casting and hope we continue to have good choices in the future. Word, man. I usually enjoy Tastosis (actually, ASL S2 and their casting is what brought me back to watching Broodwar - I had stopped for like 8 years), but I see where people have grounds for complaint. They sometimes don't really pay attention to the games and miss important stuff, like scouts spotting backstabbing squads and such. But that is no reason to be abusively criticizing, so I guess criticism should be just informative - "these guys do this and that, so if that's your style, give them a go, otherwise watch FlaShFTW or korean casting like I do". There is an off chance that Tastosis might even need the feedback, though they've been around for so long I don't really think they would change their style now. On this note, the dissociation between obsing and casting is sometimes freaking me out. There's dozens of times I was shouting "COME ON TASTELESS SHOW ME WHAT YOU MEAN DON'T JUST SHOW ME PLAYER A's MINERAL LINE" and then I realize the obs is someone else and has something different in mind. :D
I think Tastosis needs a 3rd IMO. They need an Zerg player, encyclopedia person, adding some details and some facts. Tasteless is a great showrunner with Artosis being the brains for him to bounce off of, but they need the third guy/girl to interject with stats and very fine details about BOs and like as you say scouting patterns (mentioning things from the minimap that weren't on the screen). Artosis is supposed to have this job while managing Tasteless a bit, but it's a bit too much. Sports casts tend to follow this kind of setup and it works well.
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Watched the first 3 games and Larva really impressed me. He was weaker on the macro side in both games but out-strategised his opponent both times. Well deserved wins.
On the contrary, the rest of the group didn't impress me at all. Lots of fails on the gas drones. Having 4 drones on both geysers is a huge blunder. I don't know, it didn't feel like hero deserved to move on. It was just a build order win in the last game. Judging from his play before he would have lost to effort in a straight game imho...
On September 29 2017 11:36 rackdude wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 21:36 TaardadAiel wrote:On September 26 2017 20:46 Greg_J wrote:
We need to be careful complaining too much about casters. Because they do nothing but add content that you don't have to listen to anyway if you don’t like it. There are other options out there and if you really don’t like the official English stream watch the Korean or FlashFTW streams. I understand the criticism of Artosis and Tasteless because they don't always sound very professional. Entertainment is completely subjective so you should just watch what you enjoy in my opinion.
We have had awesome casters quit before because of abuse and complaints when a lot of people really enjoyed their work and many people really missed them when they were gone. We should learn from our mistakes as a community and also the casters themselves should analyze their own performance and consider if they can improve.
I thank everyone that is casting and hope we continue to have good choices in the future. Word, man. I usually enjoy Tastosis (actually, ASL S2 and their casting is what brought me back to watching Broodwar - I had stopped for like 8 years), but I see where people have grounds for complaint. They sometimes don't really pay attention to the games and miss important stuff, like scouts spotting backstabbing squads and such. But that is no reason to be abusively criticizing, so I guess criticism should be just informative - "these guys do this and that, so if that's your style, give them a go, otherwise watch FlaShFTW or korean casting like I do". There is an off chance that Tastosis might even need the feedback, though they've been around for so long I don't really think they would change their style now. On this note, the dissociation between obsing and casting is sometimes freaking me out. There's dozens of times I was shouting "COME ON TASTELESS SHOW ME WHAT YOU MEAN DON'T JUST SHOW ME PLAYER A's MINERAL LINE" and then I realize the obs is someone else and has something different in mind. :D I think Tastosis needs a 3rd IMO. They need an Zerg player, encyclopedia person, adding some details and some facts. Tasteless is a great showrunner with Artosis being the brains for him to bounce off of, but they need the third guy/girl to interject with stats and very fine details about BOs and like as you say scouting patterns (mentioning things from the minimap that weren't on the screen). Artosis is supposed to have this job while managing Tasteless a bit, but it's a bit too much. Sports casts tend to follow this kind of setup and it works well.
I think 3 people are too much. The problem is that Artosis lacks the in-depth knowledge of the game he used to have. I mean the duo worked great in SC2.
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On September 29 2017 20:49 Ty2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2017 11:42 Miragee wrote:Watched the first 3 games and Larva really impressed me. He was weaker on the macro side in both games but out-strategised his opponent both times. Well deserved wins. On the contrary, the rest of the group didn't impress me at all. Lots of fails on the gas drones. Having 4 drones on both geysers is a huge blunder. I don't know, it didn't feel like hero deserved to move on. It was just a build order win in the last game. Judging from his play before he would have lost to effort in a straight game imho... On September 29 2017 11:36 rackdude wrote:On September 26 2017 21:36 TaardadAiel wrote:On September 26 2017 20:46 Greg_J wrote:
We need to be careful complaining too much about casters. Because they do nothing but add content that you don't have to listen to anyway if you don’t like it. There are other options out there and if you really don’t like the official English stream watch the Korean or FlashFTW streams. I understand the criticism of Artosis and Tasteless because they don't always sound very professional. Entertainment is completely subjective so you should just watch what you enjoy in my opinion.
We have had awesome casters quit before because of abuse and complaints when a lot of people really enjoyed their work and many people really missed them when they were gone. We should learn from our mistakes as a community and also the casters themselves should analyze their own performance and consider if they can improve.
I thank everyone that is casting and hope we continue to have good choices in the future. Word, man. I usually enjoy Tastosis (actually, ASL S2 and their casting is what brought me back to watching Broodwar - I had stopped for like 8 years), but I see where people have grounds for complaint. They sometimes don't really pay attention to the games and miss important stuff, like scouts spotting backstabbing squads and such. But that is no reason to be abusively criticizing, so I guess criticism should be just informative - "these guys do this and that, so if that's your style, give them a go, otherwise watch FlaShFTW or korean casting like I do". There is an off chance that Tastosis might even need the feedback, though they've been around for so long I don't really think they would change their style now. On this note, the dissociation between obsing and casting is sometimes freaking me out. There's dozens of times I was shouting "COME ON TASTELESS SHOW ME WHAT YOU MEAN DON'T JUST SHOW ME PLAYER A's MINERAL LINE" and then I realize the obs is someone else and has something different in mind. :D I think Tastosis needs a 3rd IMO. They need an Zerg player, encyclopedia person, adding some details and some facts. Tasteless is a great showrunner with Artosis being the brains for him to bounce off of, but they need the third guy/girl to interject with stats and very fine details about BOs and like as you say scouting patterns (mentioning things from the minimap that weren't on the screen). Artosis is supposed to have this job while managing Tasteless a bit, but it's a bit too much. Sports casts tend to follow this kind of setup and it works well. I think 3 people are too much. The problem is that Artosis lacks the in-depth knowledge of the game he used to have. I mean the duo worked great in SC2. The 4 drones on gas was intentional by hero. There are very slight gaps in gas income and it was heros intention to end the game off of 2 gases most likely. I'm not really sure if or where larva was behind on macro considering the matchup is very un macro intensive. The last game although being a build order win was a good mind game by hero (like a poker play) and a huge risk that could've easily gone the other way. That is just my take on the games and I thought I could shed some light.
Eh what? I didn't notice that gap at all and even if there was a small gap I don't think it's worth it. Especially considering the map and the fact that they were playing passively and hero decided to take a third pretty much uncontested.
The thing with larva's macro was his timings. If you payed close attention you could see that he was always a tad late with building structures or drones etc.
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On September 24 2017 06:19 neptunusfisk wrote:
I predict larva and hero to advance. Same method as FlaShFTW.
Turns out my coins were telling the truth huh. Cool.
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What 2 guys from group C have the best chance to give us a good series against Flash?
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On October 03 2017 23:01 Alpha-NP- wrote:
What 2 guys from group C have the best chance to give us a good series against Flash?
Easily bisu and shuttle.. although mind also has potential (sorry ssak)
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I haven't seen the games yet, but for those that are saying that 4 drones on gas in a zvz is a mistake, let me clear this up for you right now. The players know exactly what they are doing. Vespene gas mining is NOT symmetrical in Starcraft.
The best positions for a gas is directly above and the two positions to the left of the main building. Any other positions are bound to have inefficiencies. The optimal mining rate for 3 workers is on average 300 gas per minute, the absolute best being around 308. You can't get faster than that. Now some gas positions are absolutely terrible, being as low as 240ish gas per minute on average. That's around 60 gas per minute average difference with an optimal geyser, and in a little bit less than 2 minutes that is more than 100 gas difference, which in zvz will count for 1 mutalisk. Each gas position is different in mining rates on different maps and for each race.
Now if the geyser was on top or to the left of the hatch, I might call that a mistake. But if not, it is most likely a deliberate choice from the player taking into account what mapmakers call the "gas issue".
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I swear one game it looked like the player on the left had 4 on gas on both of his bases in a ZvZ.
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I have no fact info from the map and I watched the game already a week ago, but I remember seeing those 4 drones mining gas on crossing field top left spot. The gas positioning for sure looked like 4 workers is needed, just as some other maps with the same gas positioning. Like Luna for example.
If this is the case on crossing fields, I am wondering why the heck is it not fixed. It really hurts ZvZ.
edit: Checked out the map, the gas was not positioned as bad as I remembered, but for fastest gas it still need 4 workers as it's on the right side to the hatchery.
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Bulgaria750 Posts
On September 29 2017 11:36 rackdude wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 21:36 TaardadAiel wrote:On September 26 2017 20:46 Greg_J wrote:
We need to be careful complaining too much about casters. Because they do nothing but add content that you don't have to listen to anyway if you don’t like it. There are other options out there and if you really don’t like the official English stream watch the Korean or FlashFTW streams. I understand the criticism of Artosis and Tasteless because they don't always sound very professional. Entertainment is completely subjective so you should just watch what you enjoy in my opinion.
We have had awesome casters quit before because of abuse and complaints when a lot of people really enjoyed their work and many people really missed them when they were gone. We should learn from our mistakes as a community and also the casters themselves should analyze their own performance and consider if they can improve.
I thank everyone that is casting and hope we continue to have good choices in the future. Word, man. I usually enjoy Tastosis (actually, ASL S2 and their casting is what brought me back to watching Broodwar - I had stopped for like 8 years), but I see where people have grounds for complaint. They sometimes don't really pay attention to the games and miss important stuff, like scouts spotting backstabbing squads and such. But that is no reason to be abusively criticizing, so I guess criticism should be just informative - "these guys do this and that, so if that's your style, give them a go, otherwise watch FlaShFTW or korean casting like I do". There is an off chance that Tastosis might even need the feedback, though they've been around for so long I don't really think they would change their style now. On this note, the dissociation between obsing and casting is sometimes freaking me out. There's dozens of times I was shouting "COME ON TASTELESS SHOW ME WHAT YOU MEAN DON'T JUST SHOW ME PLAYER A's MINERAL LINE" and then I realize the obs is someone else and has something different in mind. :D I think Tastosis needs a 3rd IMO. They need an Zerg player, encyclopedia person, adding some details and some facts. Tasteless is a great showrunner with Artosis being the brains for him to bounce off of, but they need the third guy/girl to interject with stats and very fine details about BOs and like as you say scouting patterns (mentioning things from the minimap that weren't on the screen). Artosis is supposed to have this job while managing Tasteless a bit, but it's a bit too much. Sports casts tend to follow this kind of setup and it works well.
And guess who comes to mind? DayNine. He plays Zerg, he pays a lot of attention to small details and can probably be an obnoxious nerd of the funny kind like his brother. But I don't really know if three isn't a bit too much. Don't korean casters for big events come in trios, though?
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For group C, I predict Bisu and Shuttle advance! Looking forward to it. Less than 17 hours away from this post!
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On October 08 2017 01:43 Alpha-NP- wrote:
For group C, I predict Bisu and Shuttle advance! Looking forward to it. Less than 17 hours away from this post!
Hype!!
I also LBd bisu and shuttle, I think they're the safe bets by quite a margin.
KTY hwaiting!!
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Thanks for the bump I thought the next games were Monday. I might have been pretty dissapointed to tune in Monday find not only did I miss group C but there are no games untill Tuesday.
The ASL is a great thing. It's so good to be so hyped about Broodwar in 2017. I can have a couple of cheap nights in with a couple of beers and enjoy the show this week.
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On September 29 2017 11:36 rackdude wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 21:36 TaardadAiel wrote:On September 26 2017 20:46 Greg_J wrote:
We need to be careful complaining too much about casters. Because they do nothing but add content that you don't have to listen to anyway if you don’t like it. There are other options out there and if you really don’t like the official English stream watch the Korean or FlashFTW streams. I understand the criticism of Artosis and Tasteless because they don't always sound very professional. Entertainment is completely subjective so you should just watch what you enjoy in my opinion.
We have had awesome casters quit before because of abuse and complaints when a lot of people really enjoyed their work and many people really missed them when they were gone. We should learn from our mistakes as a community and also the casters themselves should analyze their own performance and consider if they can improve.
I thank everyone that is casting and hope we continue to have good choices in the future. Word, man. I usually enjoy Tastosis (actually, ASL S2 and their casting is what brought me back to watching Broodwar - I had stopped for like 8 years), but I see where people have grounds for complaint. They sometimes don't really pay attention to the games and miss important stuff, like scouts spotting backstabbing squads and such. But that is no reason to be abusively criticizing, so I guess criticism should be just informative - "these guys do this and that, so if that's your style, give them a go, otherwise watch FlaShFTW or korean casting like I do". There is an off chance that Tastosis might even need the feedback, though they've been around for so long I don't really think they would change their style now. On this note, the dissociation between obsing and casting is sometimes freaking me out. There's dozens of times I was shouting "COME ON TASTELESS SHOW ME WHAT YOU MEAN DON'T JUST SHOW ME PLAYER A's MINERAL LINE" and then I realize the obs is someone else and has something different in mind. :D I think Tastosis needs a 3rd IMO. They need an Zerg player, encyclopedia person, adding some details and some facts. Tasteless is a great showrunner with Artosis being the brains for him to bounce off of, but they need the third guy/girl to interject with stats and very fine details about BOs and like as you say scouting patterns (mentioning things from the minimap that weren't on the screen). Artosis is supposed to have this job while managing Tasteless a bit, but it's a bit too much. Sports casts tend to follow this kind of setup and it works well.
So me, right? I need to go to Korea?
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EPT
