On January 04 2017 00:42 NeonFlare wrote:
Maybe I'm blind but Liquipedia doesn't have dates for remaining matches?
Maybe I'm blind but Liquipedia doesn't have dates for remaining matches?
Sunday 8th and Tuesday 10th.
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Miragee
8381 Posts
On January 04 2017 00:42 NeonFlare wrote: Maybe I'm blind but Liquipedia doesn't have dates for remaining matches? Sunday 8th and Tuesday 10th. | ||
NeonFlare
Finland1307 Posts
On January 04 2017 00:45 Miragee wrote: @Letmelose: I'll answer later, don't have time right now. Show nested quote + On January 04 2017 00:42 NeonFlare wrote: Maybe I'm blind but Liquipedia doesn't have dates for remaining matches? Sunday 8th and Tuesday 10th. Alright, thanks. | ||
Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On January 04 2017 00:29 Letmelose wrote: Show nested quote + On January 03 2017 23:36 Miragee wrote: On January 03 2017 20:13 GTR wrote: On January 03 2017 20:12 sharkie wrote: On January 03 2017 20:10 Miragee wrote: Hm, BD just spoke about the most memorial 3-0 comback after being down 0-2. He said Effort vs Flash. For me it's probably Jaedong vs Fantasy. The games were much better and much more exciting for me. Yeah but in JD vs fantasy people never stopped believing in JD. No one in their right mind ever expected Effort to win three times in a row vs Flash, no matter what. for me it was gorush vs nada from the iops osl semi-finals how nada won the 3rd set on dream of balhae, i'll never figure out. when i was talking to gorush at artosis' christmas party in 2015 i kept ribbing him about it and all he could say was 'nada is just god' Just watched the first 3 games and I must say the level of play is just laughable compared to modern age (not talking about strategies here). No offense intended, the games were probably insane for that day and age. It's also hard to figure out how GoRush lost set 3. Nada was basicall on 1 base for 30 minutes of the game. Everytime he got a second one he lost the other. If anything GoRush lost because of 2 things. First, he didn't defend his bases at all. Losing a base to 4 marines without reacting, losing 7 drones and half of a hatches life to ONE marine and a medic... He didn't react at all to all those attacks. Secondly, hydras suck ass against marines. They may have killed a billion CCs but in fights they were so damn ineffecient. In one of the earlier fights for example he lost more than 20 hydras vs a control group of marines+ a few medics when he had like 4 control groups of hydras. That's how bad hydras are against marines. If you waste so many minerals then yeah, you can be 5 bases ahead and still lose the game. + Show Spoiler + You can't judge these games with a modern context. Watch the above clip. With a modern context in mind, you'll probably blame the zerg for not doing the appropriate building placements to stop the vulture run-by, and realize that the game is mostly over once two vultures went inside the base. However, it wasn't the case when you watched it live. This is was when the vulture micro-management we take for granted today wasn't even in the minds of the viewers as being possible. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how instead of realizing that the zerg player is in deep shit, the commentator (one of the greatest around) proceeds to tell us how merely two vultures won't be able to do that much damage versus that many zerglings (because he wasn't aware of the level of micro-management that was possible), then is audibly surprised by the level of NaDa displays here (the level of which you probably won't even blink an eye after watching). This is the commentary of an ex-professional who was actively playing the terran race at the top level (his last appearance in the top 16 was in 2002) only a few years before. Imagine how mind blowing it was for me (a casual viewer) when I first watched it. I didn't even comprehend why NaDa made vultures in the first place, and was blown away by what he could do with it, as was his opponent GoRush, by how hard he got whooped by it. All past games suck ass if you just try to view it from a modern perspective without knowing how many years of advancements it took for the game to reach the current level. I literally thought that the plays I was witnessing being executed at the hands of NaDa would never be surpassed by any player ever, that's how clean his play seemed to be at the time. Otherwise every iconic moment in history becomes a piece of shit. Oh that BoxeR micro-management was so shit, what the hell was the zerg thinking. What's so amazing about iloveoov taking the natural off two barracks? It's called a natural for god's sake, it's the obvious thing to do. Bisu build? What is that newb sAviOr doing building mutalisks against corsair dark templar combination? Is he retarded? yeah i think letmeloose is right about this. You gotta see the notable achievements and outstanding plays in broodwar in the context of their time, game development and metagame. Ofc they are not necessarily impressive any more to modern eyes, because modern gameplay incorporates all those great innovations in strategy, micro and macro that were truly marvellous at their time. | ||
Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
On January 04 2017 01:11 Cele wrote: Show nested quote + On January 04 2017 00:29 Letmelose wrote: On January 03 2017 23:36 Miragee wrote: On January 03 2017 20:13 GTR wrote: On January 03 2017 20:12 sharkie wrote: On January 03 2017 20:10 Miragee wrote: Hm, BD just spoke about the most memorial 3-0 comback after being down 0-2. He said Effort vs Flash. For me it's probably Jaedong vs Fantasy. The games were much better and much more exciting for me. Yeah but in JD vs fantasy people never stopped believing in JD. No one in their right mind ever expected Effort to win three times in a row vs Flash, no matter what. for me it was gorush vs nada from the iops osl semi-finals how nada won the 3rd set on dream of balhae, i'll never figure out. when i was talking to gorush at artosis' christmas party in 2015 i kept ribbing him about it and all he could say was 'nada is just god' Just watched the first 3 games and I must say the level of play is just laughable compared to modern age (not talking about strategies here). No offense intended, the games were probably insane for that day and age. It's also hard to figure out how GoRush lost set 3. Nada was basicall on 1 base for 30 minutes of the game. Everytime he got a second one he lost the other. If anything GoRush lost because of 2 things. First, he didn't defend his bases at all. Losing a base to 4 marines without reacting, losing 7 drones and half of a hatches life to ONE marine and a medic... He didn't react at all to all those attacks. Secondly, hydras suck ass against marines. They may have killed a billion CCs but in fights they were so damn ineffecient. In one of the earlier fights for example he lost more than 20 hydras vs a control group of marines+ a few medics when he had like 4 control groups of hydras. That's how bad hydras are against marines. If you waste so many minerals then yeah, you can be 5 bases ahead and still lose the game. + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAAvTqpffnA&t=11s You can't judge these games with a modern context. Watch the above clip. With a modern context in mind, you'll probably blame the zerg for not doing the appropriate building placements to stop the vulture run-by, and realize that the game is mostly over once two vultures went inside the base. However, it wasn't the case when you watched it live. This is was when the vulture micro-management we take for granted today wasn't even in the minds of the viewers as being possible. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how instead of realizing that the zerg player is in deep shit, the commentator (one of the greatest around) proceeds to tell us how merely two vultures won't be able to do that much damage versus that many zerglings (because he wasn't aware of the level of micro-management that was possible), then is audibly surprised by the level of NaDa displays here (the level of which you probably won't even blink an eye after watching). This is the commentary of an ex-professional who was actively playing the terran race at the top level (his last appearance in the top 16 was in 2002) only a few years before. Imagine how mind blowing it was for me (a casual viewer) when I first watched it. I didn't even comprehend why NaDa made vultures in the first place, and was blown away by what he could do with it, as was his opponent GoRush, by how hard he got whooped by it. All past games suck ass if you just try to view it from a modern perspective without knowing how many years of advancements it took for the game to reach the current level. I literally thought that the plays I was witnessing being executed at the hands of NaDa would never be surpassed by any player ever, that's how clean his play seemed to be at the time. Otherwise every iconic moment in history becomes a piece of shit. Oh that BoxeR micro-management was so shit, what the hell was the zerg thinking. What's so amazing about iloveoov taking the natural off two barracks? It's called a natural for god's sake, it's the obvious thing to do. Bisu build? What is that newb sAviOr doing building mutalisks against corsair dark templar combination? Is he retarded? yeah i think letmeloose is right about this. You gotta see the notable achievements and outstanding plays in broodwar in the context of their time, game development and metagame. Ofc they are not necessarily impressive any more to modern eyes, because modern gameplay incorporates all those great innovations in strategy, micro and macro that were truly marvellous at their time. All it takes is to realise professional gaming is mostly about the relative skill of pros in comparison to the rest of the scene, rather than trying to compare completely different time frames | ||
ghrur
United States3785 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
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Miragee
8381 Posts
On January 04 2017 00:29 Letmelose wrote: Show nested quote + On January 03 2017 23:36 Miragee wrote: On January 03 2017 20:13 GTR wrote: On January 03 2017 20:12 sharkie wrote: On January 03 2017 20:10 Miragee wrote: Hm, BD just spoke about the most memorial 3-0 comback after being down 0-2. He said Effort vs Flash. For me it's probably Jaedong vs Fantasy. The games were much better and much more exciting for me. Yeah but in JD vs fantasy people never stopped believing in JD. No one in their right mind ever expected Effort to win three times in a row vs Flash, no matter what. for me it was gorush vs nada from the iops osl semi-finals how nada won the 3rd set on dream of balhae, i'll never figure out. when i was talking to gorush at artosis' christmas party in 2015 i kept ribbing him about it and all he could say was 'nada is just god' Just watched the first 3 games and I must say the level of play is just laughable compared to modern age (not talking about strategies here). No offense intended, the games were probably insane for that day and age. It's also hard to figure out how GoRush lost set 3. Nada was basicall on 1 base for 30 minutes of the game. Everytime he got a second one he lost the other. If anything GoRush lost because of 2 things. First, he didn't defend his bases at all. Losing a base to 4 marines without reacting, losing 7 drones and half of a hatches life to ONE marine and a medic... He didn't react at all to all those attacks. Secondly, hydras suck ass against marines. They may have killed a billion CCs but in fights they were so damn ineffecient. In one of the earlier fights for example he lost more than 20 hydras vs a control group of marines+ a few medics when he had like 4 control groups of hydras. That's how bad hydras are against marines. If you waste so many minerals then yeah, you can be 5 bases ahead and still lose the game. + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAAvTqpffnA&t=11s You can't judge these games with a modern context. Watch the above clip. With a modern context in mind, you'll probably blame the zerg for not doing the appropriate building placements to stop the vulture run-by, and realize that the game is mostly over once two vultures went inside the base. However, it wasn't the case when you watched it live. This is was when the vulture micro-management we take for granted today wasn't even in the minds of the viewers as being possible. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how instead of realizing that the zerg player is in deep shit, the commentator (one of the greatest around) proceeds to tell us how merely two vultures won't be able to do that much damage versus that many zerglings (because he wasn't aware of the level of micro-management that was possible), then is audibly surprised by the level of NaDa displays here (the level of which you probably won't even blink an eye after watching). This is the commentary of an ex-professional who was actively playing the terran race at the top level (his last appearance in the top 16 was in 2002) only a few years before. Imagine how mind blowing it was for me (a casual viewer) when I first watched it. I didn't even comprehend why NaDa made vultures in the first place, and was blown away by what he could do with it, as was his opponent GoRush, by how hard he got whooped by it. All past games suck ass if you just try to view it from a modern perspective without knowing how many years of advancements it took for the game to reach the current level. I literally thought that the plays I was witnessing being executed at the hands of NaDa would never be surpassed by any player ever, that's how clean his play seemed to be at the time. Otherwise every iconic moment in history becomes a piece of shit. Oh that BoxeR micro-management was so shit, what the hell was the zerg thinking. What's so amazing about iloveoov taking the natural off two barracks? It's called a natural for god's sake, it's the obvious thing to do. Bisu build? What is that newb sAviOr doing building mutalisks against corsair dark templar combination? Is he retarded? I think you didn't quite get what I was saying. I specifically added "not talking about strategies here". Of course I won't judge GoRush for playing mass hydra against marines, even though today we know how much that sucks. Or for basically playing without swarm for 20-25 minutes into each game. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about basics such as reaction-time when a push or harass happens, hence the examples. It's just ridiculous to see a single marine kill 7 drones and half a hatch. Even when I was a total noob and didn't even have an idea that a pro scene existed I had faster reaction times, lol. I thought Nada's early game micro was pretty damn good btw. GoRush's ling control on the other hand sucked balls. Which is weird because his drone micro against the bunker rush (in game 3 I think) was actually pretty decent. Again, I'm not talking about all the silly runbys. That's a totally different story and I know that it was a common thing to do back then. | ||
Lucumo
6850 Posts
On January 03 2017 21:39 Letmelose wrote: Afreeca, Korea's answer to Twitch, is quite a successful platform for ex-professional players who played Brood War. Why "answer" when Afreeca was before Justin/Twitch.tv? Anyway, I'm happy that my favorite Protoss player won this. Didn't expect it, at all. | ||
GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
I can elaborate if anyone's interested but it's pretty much for the same reasons other people have been mentioning. | ||
Miragee
8381 Posts
On January 04 2017 05:00 B-royal wrote: Well this was the worst casting ever by tasteless and artosis for game 1. I couldn't bear listening to them any more after that. Korean stream for me from now on! I can elaborate if anyone's interested but it's pretty much for the same reasons other people have been mentioning. You are welcome to enjoy BisuDagger and FlashFTW over on the other english stream. It's not listed in the sidebar because of technical issues but it's always listed in the OP. Today's cast was pretty enjoyable imho. | ||
[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On January 04 2017 05:04 Miragee wrote: Show nested quote + On January 04 2017 05:00 B-royal wrote: Well this was the worst casting ever by tasteless and artosis for game 1. I couldn't bear listening to them any more after that. Korean stream for me from now on! I can elaborate if anyone's interested but it's pretty much for the same reasons other people have been mentioning. You are welcome to enjoy BisuDagger and FlashFTW over on the other english stream. It's not listed in the sidebar because of technical issues but it's always listed in the OP. Today's cast was pretty enjoyable imho. +1. The BisuDagger/FlashFTW cast was pretty good. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
BeSt beasted it!!! Edit: yes I listened to the BisuDagger and the FlashFTW | ||
SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
Very very upset by these results. Taking a long hard look at my race. | ||
SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On January 04 2017 05:00 B-royal wrote: Well this was the worst casting ever by tasteless and artosis for game 1. I couldn't bear listening to them any more after that. Korean stream for me from now on! I can elaborate if anyone's interested but it's pretty much for the same reasons other people have been mentioning. I'm interested. I set my alarm to watch these matches but missed them, so I haven't seen the casting. | ||
ThreeActPlay
United States249 Posts
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I'm starting to think Best could win the whole thing. His PvT is beastly, he can analyse sea's game from the quarter and then maybe upset flash in the finals. Impressive play by him overall IMO ! | ||
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