EPT[ASL2] Ro8 BeSt vs hero - Page 20
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
|
ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
| ||
|
iamho
United States3347 Posts
| ||
|
_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
| ||
|
Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On January 04 2017 04:31 Miragee wrote: I think you didn't quite get what I was saying. I specifically added "not talking about strategies here". Of course I won't judge GoRush for playing mass hydra against marines, even though today we know how much that sucks. Or for basically playing without swarm for 20-25 minutes into each game. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about basics such as reaction-time when a push or harass happens, hence the examples. It's just ridiculous to see a single marine kill 7 drones and half a hatch. Even when I was a total noob and didn't even have an idea that a pro scene existed I had faster reaction times, lol. I thought Nada's early game micro was pretty damn good btw. GoRush's ling control on the other hand sucked balls. Which is weird because his drone micro against the bunker rush (in game 3 I think) was actually pretty decent. Again, I'm not talking about all the silly runbys. That's a totally different story and I know that it was a common thing to do back then. The level of strategies, utilization of units, understanding of army compositions, mini-map awarness, most efficient mouse and keyboard arrangement to manage bases, and build paths that are set in stone to the most minute detail are things that we all take for granted. Of course you have amazing reaction times when you have a list of certain things the opponent can do to you, in a list of decreasing order of likelihood, at every single moment of the game. With the situation of the early game, there is a push of three tanks, and one science vessel coming at 9 minutes 30 seconds, better re-position my lurkers in advance. There could be a dropship coming for my third base round about now, I KNEW IT, spotted the red dot in the mini-map, I have such INSANE REACTION TIME. You do realize even the most mundane things that we take for granted are things that were processed at real-time when Brood War actually was a real-time strategy game, not a economy-based base management game with difficult execution of army control it evolved into. Even when you were a total newb, you probably had some knowledge of various situations of the game built-in within you, you weren't constantly thinking and trying to coming up with optimal strategies and reactions to stuff that you never experienced. Totally different set of circumstances. If you had superior mechanics, base management, and reaction times the first time you touched the game, without having the luxury all the built in knowledge from a game that was over ten years old (even without the advancements in the professional scene), you can ridicule this game for its low quality. Otherwise this is like me saying I can prove my superior intellect to Leonardo Da Vinci by taking a textbook of advanced calculus written in a language he understands, and gloating about how I can learn how to solve difficult equations quicker than he can (and boast about the fact that I never even majored in mathematics). That's not taking into consideration that Leonardo Da Vinci has way more information he needs to process before he can even wrap his head around the concepts that are being shown to him. If you were already on a similar level as a casual amateur way back then, then perhaps the world has missed a godly Brood War talent in you, if you're just gloating about how you had faster reaction times without taking into consideration all the circumstances that defined those eras, you're no better than those 300 APM Circuit Breaker spamming brain dead retards who give absolutely zero respect to the older generation of legends, thinking they were some dudes who were lucky to play before the game became advanced, just because they managed to hit E once on the Fish Server ladder. The game became advanced because of these players, because of the accumulation of knowledge of a game played on a fixed patch for more than a decade, with advancements that were accelerated due to the wide spread of information due to the replays, televised games of absolute top level professionals who were literally breaking the known limitations of how to manipulate the game. These guys were the Neo to the matrix of Starcraft. Just because Neo can be beaten to a pulp outside the context of the matrix doesn't stop him from being a god within his realm. Respect the context of the era. Just have more respect in general. You can make light of almost every game, and player in existence, if you have that kind of attitude, with zero reverence of the era you weren't personally there to witness, and not understand the full context of. What now? Pele was a newb who can't even lick the boots of Suarez? Einstein in 2017 LUL, he didn't even accept quantum mechanics. How can this guy be considered a genius. Everything and everyone can becomes a joke given the loftly position of hindsight. Don't be that kind of guy. | ||
|
ortseam
996 Posts
I actually liked Tastosis for once, they even caught the fast archives thing in game 2 which kinda surprised me. Poor hero realising it's 2 star as his mutas are popping. | ||
|
Miragee
8716 Posts
The level of strategies, utilization of units, understanding of army compositions, mini-map awarness, most efficient mouse and keyboard arrangement to manage bases, and build paths that are set in stone to the most minute detail are things that we all take for granted. Of course you have amazing reaction times when you have a list of certain things the opponent can do to you, in a list of decreasing order of likelihood, at every single moment of the game. I'm not talking about any of that. It's as simple as a marine attacking something and you get a pop-up warning ingame that something is attacking you. You don't need insane reaction times to react faster than GoRush did. It took him more than 30 seconds. I'm not asking him to be a Jaedong and scourge every dropship in advance. The funny thing is: Nada reacted way, way, waaaay quicker than Gorush. So I don't quite get your argument. Clearly even back then faster reaction times were possible. Even when you were a total newb, you probably had some knowledge of various situations of the game built-in within you, you weren't constantly thinking and trying to coming up with optimal strategies and reactions to stuff that you never experienced. I was actually talking about the time when I played offline vs AI, playing a self-invented 1 base lurker strat to not die to 16 zealots "rushing" me. I was beyond terrible. Otherwise this is like me saying I can prove my superior intellect to Leonardo Da Vinci by taking a textbook of advanced calculus written in a language he understands, and gloating about how I can learn how to solve difficult equations quicker than he can (and boast about the fact that I never even majored in mathematics). That's not taking into consideration that Leonardo Da Vinci has way more information he needs to process before he can even wrap his head around the concepts that are being shown to him. No. If Leonardo Da Vinci actually needed 30 seconds for remembering that he had to use +/- in every simple calculation then yes, that would be adequate. If you were already on a similar level as a casual amateur way back then, then perhaps the world has missed a godly Brood War talent in you, if you're just gloating about how you had faster reaction times without taking into consideration all the circumstances that defined those eras I never said I was on a similar level. I was as far away from that as my dog. And I don't even own one. Compared to me back they are basically superior in every way. But believe me, it wouldn't take me 30 seconds to react to something attacking my buildings. you're no better than those 300 APM Circuit Breaker spamming brain dead retards who give absolutely zero respect to the older generation of legends, thinking they were some dudes who were lucky to play before the game became advanced, just because they managed to hit E once on the Fish Server ladder. Never said that, never meant that. | ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7218 Posts
On January 04 2017 09:59 Letmelose wrote: The level of strategies, utilization of units, understanding of army compositions, mini-map awarness, most efficient mouse and keyboard arrangement to manage bases, and build paths that are set in stone to the most minute detail are things that we all take for granted. Of course you have amazing reaction times when you have a list of certain things the opponent can do to you, in a list of decreasing order of likelihood, at every single moment of the game. With the situation of the early game, there is a push of three tanks, and one science vessel coming at 9 minutes 30 seconds, better re-position my lurkers in advance. There could be a dropship coming for my third base round about now, I KNEW IT, spotted the red dot in the mini-map, I have such INSANE REACTION TIME. You do realize even the most mundane things that we take for granted are things that were processed at real-time when Brood War actually was a real-time strategy game, not a economy-based base management game with difficult execution of army control it evolved into. Even when you were a total newb, you probably had some knowledge of various situations of the game built-in within you, you weren't constantly thinking and trying to coming up with optimal strategies and reactions to stuff that you never experienced. Totally different set of circumstances. If you had superior mechanics, base management, and reaction times the first time you touched the game, without having the luxury all the built in knowledge from a game that was over ten years old (even without the advancements in the professional scene), you can ridicule this game for its low quality. Otherwise this is like me saying I can prove my superior intellect to Leonardo Da Vinci by taking a textbook of advanced calculus written in a language he understands, and gloating about how I can learn how to solve difficult equations quicker than he can (and boast about the fact that I never even majored in mathematics). That's not taking into consideration that Leonardo Da Vinci has way more information he needs to process before he can even wrap his head around the concepts that are being shown to him. If you were already on a similar level as a casual amateur way back then, then perhaps the world has missed a godly Brood War talent in you, if you're just gloating about how you had faster reaction times without taking into consideration all the circumstances that defined those eras, you're no better than those 300 APM Circuit Breaker spamming brain dead retards who give absolutely zero respect to the older generation of legends, thinking they were some dudes who were lucky to play before the game became advanced, just because they managed to hit E once on the Fish Server ladder. The game became advanced because of these players, because of the accumulation of knowledge of a game played on a fixed patch for more than a decade, with advancements that were accelerated due to the wide spread of information due to the replays, televised games of absolute top level professionals who were literally breaking the known limitations of how to manipulate the game. These guys were the Neo to the matrix of Starcraft. Just because Neo can be beaten to a pulp outside the context of the matrix doesn't stop him from being a god within his realm. Respect the context of the era. Just have more respect in general. You can make light of almost every game, and player in existence, if you have that kind of attitude, with zero reverence of the era you weren't personally there to witness, and not understand the full context of. What now? Pele was a newb who can't even lick the boots of Suarez? Einstein in 2017 LUL, he didn't even accept quantum mechanics. How can this guy be considered a genius. Everything and everyone can becomes a joke given the loftly position of hindsight. Don't be that kind of guy. this is the new trend,anyone on the internet is an expert and can do better,just visit games of thrones/westworld or the walking dead threads.there are full of potential scripwriters for the oscar award. Also thanks alot for all this information you are giving to us <3.at the same time it is a shame there is not just a thread for this and i fear this will be eventually forgotten =( . | ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7218 Posts
#1 there are multiple actions happening in the game ,he defended the dropship but didnt notice 1 marine was left while his atention was in other place. #2 he was sure the dropship was cleaned but it wasnt #3 to much pressure #4 are we talking about 1 marine push that killed 7 drones and half hatchery or? | ||
|
thezanursic
5504 Posts
| ||
|
Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On January 04 2017 10:42 Miragee wrote: Dude calm down. You throw insults at me left and right, accusing me of something I didn't do. You are going way over the top and missinterpreting all of my statements for some reason. I'm sorry if I hurt you with my phrase "the level of play was laughable". It was at times. I'm not backing down on that. However, that doesn't mean at all that I don't respect the older generation. I gave specific examples of what I thought was pretty bad, even without all the knowledge we have now. I don't know why you are throwing in so many more "examples" I didn't ever mention. Bleh. I'm not even sure I want to discuss this anymore but I at least want to debunk some stuff you accusing me of. I'm not talking about any of that. It's as simple as a marine attacking something and you get a pop-up warning ingame that something is attacking you. You don't need insane reaction times to react faster than GoRush did. It took him more than 30 seconds. I'm not asking him to be a Jaedong and scourge every dropship in advance. The funny thing is: Nada reacted way, way, waaaay quicker than Gorush. So I don't quite get your argument. Clearly even back then faster reaction times were possible. I was actually talking about the time when I played offline vs AI, playing a self-invented 1 base lurker strat to not die to 16 zealots "rushing" me. I was beyond terrible. No. If Leonardo Da Vinci actually needed 30 seconds for remembering that he had to use +/- in every simple calculation then yes, that would be adequate. I never said I was on a similar level. I was as far away from that as my dog. And I don't even own one. Compared to me back they are basically superior in every way. But believe me, it wouldn't take me 30 seconds to react to something attacking my buildings. Never said that, never meant that. In my personal opinion, it was way more of a challenge to keep up to pace with NaDa, the most mechanically gifted player of all time in terms of how far ahead he was ahead of his peers, than it was to keep up with Jaedong, or Bisu during his absolute peak. You don't see the same level of mockery for players that are being overwhelmed by the sheer number of battles, haraassments, and intense battles of micro-management presented by modern day mechanical gods such as Jaedong, or Bisu. You're pretending NaDa is the acceptable level, and make light of the level of play GoRush was capable of at the time, that is nothing short of disrepectful. Do you know how good GoRush was at the time, the auora he had as the member of Yang-Park? Who cares about your reaction time when you were playing against an AI? How fast would your reaction time be if you were pummeled to the ground by the then unprecedented 400 APM of pure NaDa carnage? You so sure that you would have been able to keep up? NaDa was the freak of nature because he still looks moderately decent even by today's standards. He's basically the greatest talent in the history of the game, and you think I won't take offense to your couch expert opinions on how everyone was bad at the time, and the unimaginable level of manipulation of the game NaDa was capable of pulling off is merely "pretty good"? It's okay to say that the level of play was laughable compared to today's games, even if it is in very poor taste. You had me triggered by having the nerve to compare yourself to these gods, even if it was in the most specific capacity. It's exactly like me comparing my intelligence to Leonardo Da Vinci. | ||
|
[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
So, props to the greats of today, and props to the greats of yesteryear. All contributed to BW's evolution, all are deserving. | ||
|
classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
| ||
|
NewbOnTheFloor
Poland160 Posts
On January 04 2017 18:18 classicyellow83 wrote: Best said he just practiced builds against computer. -_-;;;;;;;;; LMFAO :D | ||
|
Qikz
United Kingdom12071 Posts
On January 04 2017 18:18 classicyellow83 wrote: Best said he just practiced builds against computer. -_-;;;;;;;;; That's normal no? Especially in the post professional era, because it might leak too easily right now. Also, BeSt is a Macro beast, all he has to do is memorise the build order to the tee and then he can probably execute it no matter what people throw at him. | ||
|
dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
| ||
|
PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
On January 03 2017 21:06 classicyellow83 wrote: 50,000 balloons equal 5,000,000 Won. Since Best is BestBJ, He receives 70%. Which is 3,750,000 Won (3115.33 USD) Thanks. | ||
|
Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On January 04 2017 18:18 classicyellow83 wrote: Best said he just practiced builds against computer. -_-;;;;;;;;; haha funny since someone just mentioned playing against the computer but still cool to hear, admittely. You do realize even the most mundane things that we take for granted are things that were processed at real-time when Brood War actually was a real-time strategy game, not a economy-based base management game with difficult execution of army control it evolved into very interesting analyse I can see where this is coming from, still hard to understand all concepts of it i think. Before it was more improvisation, right? You could harass more freely, the gameplay was more open to things. In today present time and a few years back, harass didnt work as well, if you tried something and it didnt work you were behind. Before that, you werent really behind. Something like this? | ||
GTR
51710 Posts
| ||
|
Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
| ||
|
Cryoc
Germany915 Posts
On January 04 2017 22:18 GTR wrote: anybody know if someone recorded the fpvods from the past two ro8 series? would like to watch. Bisu vs Sea: http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/16771606 Best vs Hero: http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/16839907 | ||
| ||
