• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 02:38
CET 08:38
KST 16:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets3$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1823
StarCraft 2
General
Full list of Mcafee Customer® Service Number Full list of Mcafee Customer® Service Number {{SUPPOrt~Us}}How do i cancel Norton subscription? Full list of Customer® Service Number how do i contact norton to cancel my subscription
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3062 users

[ASL2] Ro8 BeSt vs hero - Page 22

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 20 21 22 All
Cryoc
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany912 Posts
January 06 2017 22:11 GMT
#421
That was probably because they were cross spawns and hero opened 9pool. Otherwise he would have attacked and produced more zealots.
http://www.twitch.tv/cryoc
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
January 07 2017 01:03 GMT
#422
yes maybe if they were close spawn he would have made 5 zealots and rushed or something. real cool series haha
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
January 07 2017 02:03 GMT
#423
On January 07 2017 10:03 Alejandrisha wrote:
yes maybe if they were close spawn he would have made 5 zealots and rushed or something. real cool series haha

you also need to keep in mind that hero got early gas for speed too

you dont really need to move out in that case as you already have a pretty big advantage
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Ruff_kz
Profile Joined August 2015
Kazakhstan36 Posts
January 07 2017 07:16 GMT
#424
On January 04 2017 09:59 Letmelose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2017 04:31 Miragee wrote:
On January 04 2017 00:29 Letmelose wrote:
On January 03 2017 23:36 Miragee wrote:
On January 03 2017 20:13 GTR wrote:
On January 03 2017 20:12 sharkie wrote:
On January 03 2017 20:10 Miragee wrote:
Hm, BD just spoke about the most memorial 3-0 comback after being down 0-2. He said Effort vs Flash. For me it's probably Jaedong vs Fantasy. The games were much better and much more exciting for me.


Yeah but in JD vs fantasy people never stopped believing in JD.
No one in their right mind ever expected Effort to win three times in a row vs Flash, no matter what.


for me it was gorush vs nada from the iops osl semi-finals
how nada won the 3rd set on dream of balhae, i'll never figure out.
when i was talking to gorush at artosis' christmas party in 2015 i kept ribbing him about it and all he could say was 'nada is just god'


Just watched the first 3 games and I must say the level of play is just laughable compared to modern age (not talking about strategies here). No offense intended, the games were probably insane for that day and age. It's also hard to figure out how GoRush lost set 3. Nada was basicall on 1 base for 30 minutes of the game. Everytime he got a second one he lost the other. If anything GoRush lost because of 2 things. First, he didn't defend his bases at all. Losing a base to 4 marines without reacting, losing 7 drones and half of a hatches life to ONE marine and a medic... He didn't react at all to all those attacks. Secondly, hydras suck ass against marines. They may have killed a billion CCs but in fights they were so damn ineffecient. In one of the earlier fights for example he lost more than 20 hydras vs a control group of marines+ a few medics when he had like 4 control groups of hydras. That's how bad hydras are against marines. If you waste so many minerals then yeah, you can be 5 bases ahead and still lose the game.


+ Show Spoiler +


You can't judge these games with a modern context. Watch the above clip. With a modern context in mind, you'll probably blame the zerg for not doing the appropriate building placements to stop the vulture run-by, and realize that the game is mostly over once two vultures went inside the base.

However, it wasn't the case when you watched it live. This is was when the vulture micro-management we take for granted today wasn't even in the minds of the viewers as being possible. If you can understand Korean, you'll notice how instead of realizing that the zerg player is in deep shit, the commentator (one of the greatest around) proceeds to tell us how merely two vultures won't be able to do that much damage versus that many zerglings (because he wasn't aware of the level of micro-management that was possible), then is audibly surprised by the level of NaDa displays here (the level of which you probably won't even blink an eye after watching).

This is the commentary of an ex-professional who was actively playing the terran race at the top level (his last appearance in the top 16 was in 2002) only a few years before. Imagine how mind blowing it was for me (a casual viewer) when I first watched it. I didn't even comprehend why NaDa made vultures in the first place, and was blown away by what he could do with it, as was his opponent GoRush, by how hard he got whooped by it. All past games suck ass if you just try to view it from a modern perspective without knowing how many years of advancements it took for the game to reach the current level. I literally thought that the plays I was witnessing being executed at the hands of NaDa would never be surpassed by any player ever, that's how clean his play seemed to be at the time.

Otherwise every iconic moment in history becomes a piece of shit. Oh that BoxeR micro-management was so shit, what the hell was the zerg thinking. What's so amazing about iloveoov taking the natural off two barracks? It's called a natural for god's sake, it's the obvious thing to do. Bisu build? What is that newb sAviOr doing building mutalisks against corsair dark templar combination? Is he retarded?


I think you didn't quite get what I was saying. I specifically added "not talking about strategies here". Of course I won't judge GoRush for playing mass hydra against marines, even though today we know how much that sucks. Or for basically playing without swarm for 20-25 minutes into each game. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about basics such as reaction-time when a push or harass happens, hence the examples. It's just ridiculous to see a single marine kill 7 drones and half a hatch. Even when I was a total noob and didn't even have an idea that a pro scene existed I had faster reaction times, lol.

I thought Nada's early game micro was pretty damn good btw. GoRush's ling control on the other hand sucked balls. Which is weird because his drone micro against the bunker rush (in game 3 I think) was actually pretty decent. Again, I'm not talking about all the silly runbys. That's a totally different story and I know that it was a common thing to do back then.


The level of strategies, utilization of units, understanding of army compositions, mini-map awarness, most efficient mouse and keyboard arrangement to manage bases, and build paths that are set in stone to the most minute detail are things that we all take for granted. Of course you have amazing reaction times when you have a list of certain things the opponent can do to you, in a list of decreasing order of likelihood, at every single moment of the game. With the situation of the early game, there is a push of three tanks, and one science vessel coming at 9 minutes 30 seconds, better re-position my lurkers in advance. There could be a dropship coming for my third base round about now, I KNEW IT, spotted the red dot in the mini-map, I have such INSANE REACTION TIME.

You do realize even the most mundane things that we take for granted are things that were processed at real-time when Brood War actually was a real-time strategy game, not a economy-based base management game with difficult execution of army control it evolved into. Even when you were a total newb, you probably had some knowledge of various situations of the game built-in within you, you weren't constantly thinking and trying to coming up with optimal strategies and reactions to stuff that you never experienced. Totally different set of circumstances. If you had superior mechanics, base management, and reaction times the first time you touched the game, without having the luxury all the built in knowledge from a game that was over ten years old (even without the advancements in the professional scene), you can ridicule this game for its low quality.

Otherwise this is like me saying I can prove my superior intellect to Leonardo Da Vinci by taking a textbook of advanced calculus written in a language he understands, and gloating about how I can learn how to solve difficult equations quicker than he can (and boast about the fact that I never even majored in mathematics). That's not taking into consideration that Leonardo Da Vinci has way more information he needs to process before he can even wrap his head around the concepts that are being shown to him.

If you were already on a similar level as a casual amateur way back then, then perhaps the world has missed a godly Brood War talent in you, if you're just gloating about how you had faster reaction times without taking into consideration all the circumstances that defined those eras, you're no better than those 300 APM Circuit Breaker spamming brain dead retards who give absolutely zero respect to the older generation of legends, thinking they were some dudes who were lucky to play before the game became advanced, just because they managed to hit E once on the Fish Server ladder.

The game became advanced because of these players, because of the accumulation of knowledge of a game played on a fixed patch for more than a decade, with advancements that were accelerated due to the wide spread of information due to the replays, televised games of absolute top level professionals who were literally breaking the known limitations of how to manipulate the game. These guys were the Neo to the matrix of Starcraft. Just because Neo can be beaten to a pulp outside the context of the matrix doesn't stop him from being a god within his realm. Respect the context of the era. Just have more respect in general. You can make light of almost every game, and player in existence, if you have that kind of attitude, with zero reverence of the era you weren't personally there to witness, and not understand the full context of. What now? Pele was a newb who can't even lick the boots of Suarez? Einstein in 2017 LUL, he didn't even accept quantum mechanics. How can this guy be considered a genius. Everything and everyone can becomes a joke given the loftly position of hindsight. Don't be that kind of guy.

RESPECT, comrade! There are no better words to defend great history of BW and its legendary players. Modern era is the result of previous development. People should learn Hegel's dialectic...
"Keep on dreaming, boy, cause someday you will shine" (Ogogo).
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
January 11 2017 19:39 GMT
#425
On January 07 2017 11:03 Harem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2017 10:03 Alejandrisha wrote:
yes maybe if they were close spawn he would have made 5 zealots and rushed or something. real cool series haha

you also need to keep in mind that hero got early gas for speed too

you dont really need to move out in that case as you already have a pretty big advantage


yeah after watching the vods a second time it appears i didn't pay very close attention the first time around. this build is very cool and probably has a lot of iterations we would only see in parallel uni's if zerg had done x or y. i need to watch again to see what he knew before adding the second gate on high ground now :/
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Prev 1 20 21 22 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
01:00
#64
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft557
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31221
Mong 258
Zeus 147
BeSt 129
EffOrt 99
Sacsri 37
Mind 29
Noble 22
ZergMaN 12
Icarus 6
[ Show more ]
Bale 6
League of Legends
JimRising 703
C9.Mang0481
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King161
Other Games
summit1g6985
XaKoH 214
Livibee111
RuFF_SC253
minikerr28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1190
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH141
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 46
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1135
• Stunt456
• HappyZerGling89
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
4h 22m
The PondCast
1d 2h
OSC
1d 4h
OSC
2 days
All Star Teams
2 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
All Star Teams
3 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
OSC
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-13
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.