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On July 27 2015 13:12 Rus_Brain wrote:
This saturday goodgame hosted a WC3 tournament with RUB 50k starting prizepool. Not to mention awesome games, the community doubled the prizepool, making it RUB 100k (~US$ 1,750) in total. That's very promising, and I am quite willing to share to repeat the tournament.
Of course you are all allowed to do whatever you want. Cry, complain, boy-fucking-cott, these won't make you good. You want us to belive there are more chances for you against, say, Sziky than against Scan? Well, baring in mind your activity level, I agree that 1% chance is still more than 0.1%.
The fear is all the tournaments will be done solely by Scan, with no real competition? I suggest to allow "Rus_Brain's special guest", say Sea or Bisu to take part. And yes this will remain a foreigner tournament, as any foreigner may get his lazy ass off from a chair and take part. Not that easy for a Korean.
once again what about sponsor mca64Launcher Tour. Yes or No?
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You already got a lot of donations for launcher, which instead, you used for sponsoring scan's showmatches.
mca and tl.net have a lot in common when it comes to being fanboys. Don't sponsor mca, unless you want $ to go to scan directly.
Many Guys who have a pro gaming background have played in foreigner Events in the past, Like Nony, Ret,Idra
I assume you didn't play any of them. I did, there is a difference between Idra back then, us back then, and our current situation. After a year of semi-activity someone told us to play vs a person why played 24/7 in korean leagues for the past few years without even a break to watch tv.
We don't earn money from korean leagues, from streaming starcraft. We play this mostly casualy. Still I wouldn't mind playing koreans in tour, moreover, bring Bisu in! I want to see how many tournaments his gonna play with Bisu participating. I assure you he is gonna be out very quickly and is gonna forget he's a foreigner.
For me it's not about the skill level - it's about equal rules for everyone and smooth running games. Single lag incidents can be overlooked, but when I know that no matter which part of the bracket I am, there's a lag game eventually - I don't want to play it. But if there are more players from korean - it's acceptable, since the rules are equal for everyone.
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Croatia9514 Posts
On July 27 2015 05:33 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
im talking about the sactions mostly looking for the conclusion of the TLS championship where i took part in the 3 tournaments made and where was some ranking for participation and nows doesnt make any sense ?
I'm not sure I understand this question correctly, but if you're asking if there will be some connection between the three previous TLS tournaments and TLS Championship, then yes, there will be. However, TLC is not connected to the TLS Championship. TLCs are just weekly tournaments that you can play in; or not.
On July 27 2015 09:51 noname_ wrote:
Interpreting the rules you have made is indeed voicing many concerns dear organizers from the vast majority of the players` side.
I imagine the main problem of many players is not Scan`s skill level, rather, that he is Korean, and as it is in the rules: Koreans are not allowed to play. I feel it useless to repeat; zimp and many others already pointed out these rather interesting flaws in detail, yet they were ignored, however they are right, you are contradicting yourself losing your credence. This stubborn resistance by the organizers against this level of pressure from the players`s side amazes in the sense that it does not induce(d) any kind of change. The question arises in the public: are you really for the majority of foreign players or for just for one person?
It doesn't say that Koreans are not allowed to play, but the players inside Korea/China are not allowed. Then we had an addendum which tried to clarify that exceptions can be made, but after some additional reading and zimp's detailed post, we see how that addendum could've been misunderstood. We clarified the addendum now so there hopefully won't be confusion anymore with the wording of the rule. The whole eligibility rule now is:
Who is eligible to play in the TLC?
TeamLiquid Legacy Cup series was organized to strengthen the activity and support of the foreign BW scene (read non-Korean/Chinese). Additionally, the purpose of this series of tournaments is to foster a practicing environment in preparation of TLS Championship. As such, the people eligible to play in these tournaments is everyone outside Korea and China.
Exceptions to the above rule will be provided to individual cases based on their participation in the foreign BW scene.
Now you can ask what constitutes a participation in the foreign BW scene. That is a good question and it's up to our discretion. Scan's case however, should be clear-cut. His participation in the foreign BW scene is undeniable. Someone like Sea would be a much more difficult case to decide. While he has communicated with his foreign fans a few times on TL and was part of the TL pro team, he hasn't played in a single foreigner tournament and knows nothing about foreign BW scene itself. Note: please don't start discussing the hypothetical scenario of Sea to playing in TLC; we're just trying to clarify rules a little bit so the discussion stays on track.
As a fun project, I tried looking at the previous tournaments where Scan has played to see if people complained this much about it and I couldn't find any posts where they were calling for his ban with this much vitriol. Two tournaments that are probably most relevant, since they happened less than a year ago, are Alchemy League (fun fact, it was actually Julia who was banned from this one ^^) and Defiler Super Tour which Sziky won (oops, sorry spoiler). Defiler Super Tour was only seven months ago, and while it's true that Sziky has since then went a bit inactive, I absolutely urge you to go download those replays of Scan vs Sziky. Sziky beat him twice (once in winners round and once in grand finals) and after you've seen those replays, it should help with breaking this myth of Scan being unbeatable.
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Croatia9514 Posts
Also, I'm putting my foot down with this discussion, so unless you have something new to add to the discussion, please refrain from posting. We'll review the status of the tournament in due time and let you know if anything changes.
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
On July 27 2015 16:07 Bakuryu wrote:
handicap?.........SERIOUSLY?..................WTF............. i rather lose 0-4 than win with a handicap You choose ;D
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
On July 27 2015 17:17 mca64Launcher_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 13:12 Rus_Brain wrote:
This saturday goodgame hosted a WC3 tournament with RUB 50k starting prizepool. Not to mention awesome games, the community doubled the prizepool, making it RUB 100k (~US$ 1,750) in total. That's very promising, and I am quite willing to share to repeat the tournament.
Of course you are all allowed to do whatever you want. Cry, complain, boy-fucking-cott, these won't make you good. You want us to belive there are more chances for you against, say, Sziky than against Scan? Well, baring in mind your activity level, I agree that 1% chance is still more than 0.1%.
The fear is all the tournaments will be done solely by Scan, with no real competition? I suggest to allow "Rus_Brain's special guest", say Sea or Bisu to take part. And yes this will remain a foreigner tournament, as any foreigner may get his lazy ass off from a chair and take part. Not that easy for a Korean. once again what about sponsor mca64Launcher Tour. Yes or No? That does not work that way, bro <3 At the time being. NO.
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I still await a response to my post on top of Page 21. Is this a try to sweep it under the rug?
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On July 27 2015 23:47 2Pacalypse- wrote:
As a fun project, I tried looking at the previous tournaments where Scan has played to see if people complained this much about it and I couldn't find any posts where they were calling for his ban with this much vitriol. Two tournaments that are probably most relevant, since they happened less than a year ago, are Alchemy League and Defiler Super Tour which Sziky won (oops, sorry spoiler). Defiler Super Tour was only seven months ago, and while it's true that Sziky has since then went a bit inactive, I absolutely urge you to go download those replays of Scan vs Sziky. Sziky beat him twice (once in winners round and once in grand finals) and after you've seen those replays, it should help with breaking this myth of Scan being unbeatable.
this is not even funny, I just give up. I especially love how you say DST is relevant, having ended less than a year ago, and completely ignore the last five regular DTs that took place in the last 4 months in which Scan destroyed the opposition. Truth is:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6ErdqJd.png)
+ Show Spoiler +In other news m18m is at 67% winrate vs Flash.
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Not to mention that Scan offraces all the time and all the finals he's lost he offraced - including the one you recommend we watch. I'm starting to think that you maybe just don't quite know what level Scan's at. You suggest that people go practice - what for? To beat 200+ eapm B fish terran with TvZ being his best mu.
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Just want to say thanks for this great initiative and especially Rus_Brain for sponsoring this. I started playing some again fairly recently so I might just stick around and try my luck in one of these tournaments for fun.
My opinion from a viewers perspective (as I'll definetly be one);
Personally, the problem I have with Scan's participation is that it takes a lot - and here I mean an substantial amount - of excitement away from the tournament. I do agree that everyone can practice ever so much, but the fact here is that he'll pretty much be a default finalist and winner, stomping every foreigner you throw at him. There are no or very few foreign players in the scene nowadays that can take maps of him - let alone BO3s - and unfortunately the gap is too big to be closed during the time span of this tournament.
I haven't read this whole thread, but what I haven't seen pointed out is the fact that "FOREIGNERS" are still quite equal in skill, making this a much more open tournament and favoring those who actually practice if Scan doesn't default brackets. Yes, you have players like trutaCz that are extremely good, but there still are a lot of active - and inactive - foreigners that could contest him for the title with good practice. Unfortunately I don't see that happening if Scan is the opponent.
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On July 27 2015 23:47 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 05:33 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
im talking about the sactions mostly looking for the conclusion of the TLS championship where i took part in the 3 tournaments made and where was some ranking for participation and nows doesnt make any sense ? I'm not sure I understand this question correctly, but if you're asking if there will be some connection between the three previous TLS tournaments and TLS Championship, then yes, there will be. However, TLC is not connected to the TLS Championship. TLCs are just weekly tournaments that you can play in; or not.Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 09:51 noname_ wrote:
Interpreting the rules you have made is indeed voicing many concerns dear organizers from the vast majority of the players` side.
I imagine the main problem of many players is not Scan`s skill level, rather, that he is Korean, and as it is in the rules: Koreans are not allowed to play. I feel it useless to repeat; zimp and many others already pointed out these rather interesting flaws in detail, yet they were ignored, however they are right, you are contradicting yourself losing your credence. This stubborn resistance by the organizers against this level of pressure from the players`s side amazes in the sense that it does not induce(d) any kind of change. The question arises in the public: are you really for the majority of foreign players or for just for one person?
It doesn't say that Koreans are not allowed to play, but the players inside Korea/China are not allowed. Then we had an addendum which tried to clarify that exceptions can be made, but after some additional reading and zimp's detailed post, we see how that addendum could've been misunderstood. We clarified the addendum now so there hopefully won't be confusion anymore with the wording of the rule. The whole eligibility rule now is: Who is eligible to play in the TLC?
TeamLiquid Legacy Cup series was organized to strengthen the activity and support of the foreign BW scene (read non-Korean/Chinese). Additionally, the purpose of this series of tournaments is to foster a practicing environment in preparation of TLS Championship. As such, the people eligible to play in these tournaments is everyone outside Korea and China.
Exceptions to the above rule will be provided to individual cases based on their participation in the foreign BW scene.Now you can ask what constitutes a participation in the foreign BW scene. That is a good question and it's up to our discretion. Scan's case however, should be clear-cut. His participation in the foreign BW scene is undeniable. Someone like Sea would be a much more difficult case to decide. While he has communicated with his foreign fans a few times on TL and was part of the TL pro team, he hasn't played in a single foreigner tournament and knows nothing about foreign BW scene itself. Note: please don't start discussing the hypothetical scenario of Sea to playing in TLC; we're just trying to clarify rules a little bit so the discussion stays on track. As a fun project, I tried looking at the previous tournaments where Scan has played to see if people complained this much about it and I couldn't find any posts where they were calling for his ban with this much vitriol. Two tournaments that are probably most relevant, since they happened less than a year ago, are Alchemy League (fun fact, it was actually Julia who was banned from this one ^^) and Defiler Super Tour which Sziky won (oops, sorry spoiler). Defiler Super Tour was only seven months ago, and while it's true that Sziky has since then went a bit inactive, I absolutely urge you to go download those replays of Scan vs Sziky. Sziky beat him twice (once in winners round and once in grand finals) and after you've seen those replays, it should help with breaking this myth of Scan being unbeatable.
Uh... when I asked about TLS Championship:
Original Message From G5:
Hey,
Saw the post about TLS Championship. If I end up being seeded into that, I'll play. Just let me know whenever you guys decide how it'll work.
Thanks.
you gave me this response:
That's great to hear! However, I feel like we won't be too charitable with the seeding of players because some of the players who could end up seeded wouldn't have touched BW for 2 years. The point we're trying to achieve is to increase the activity of the scene over all. As such, you should play in some of the Legacy Cups :d - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/490436-teamliquid-legacy-cup-series
What I was told (and every other player who played the original TLS) was that there would be a big tournament at the end that would be seeded dependent on how you did in the first 3 TLS tournaments. We never got this tournament that we all were expecting. 2 years later it comes up and when I ask about it, you suggest I play this Legacy Cups. Are you now saying playing in the Legacy Cups has no determining factor on entry into the TLS Championship?
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On July 27 2015 23:49 2Pacalypse- wrote:
Also, I'm putting my foot down with this discussion, so unless you have something new to add to the discussion, please refrain from posting. We'll review the status of the tournament in due time and let you know if anything changes.
Put it to the vote as I suggested in one of the earlier pages. This is becoming extremely dramatic. Once you give folks the power to truly vote, fairly, this will end and we can continue without such bad blood moving forward.
Also, Scan playing off-race obviously DOES NOT change the outcome. It's actually BM, if you ask me. It's not an act of kindness on his part. It's not like he's thinking, "Oh, let me play my off race to give these guys a chance..."
No, deep down inside, it's more like, "Ha, these foreigner did not ban me so I will make it look like I am being kind but really want to just crush everyone with off race." Every 'old school' person knows playing with off race is BM. It's not acceptable, in my opinion. And the fact that he crushed the tournament with off race goes to show he should NOT be in this tournament. And please don't mention the "3-2" victory in the finals. If he wanted to 3-0 Trutacz he can. We have to keep in mind, Scan is very intelligent. You think he won't intentionally lose a game or two to help his argument? "Oh look, I dropped 2 games. People can beat me. Don't ban me." Yeah, right.
Forgive me for such a cynical thought process here. But it's becoming a bit excessive here that the TL Staff would defend one person so much. It makes it seem a bit suspicious at this point. How can ONE person be defended so much instead of simply, just servicing the community/majority? Once again, as I've openly said, if Scan gets kicked out - my deepest and sincere apologies. But it is what it is.
Put it to a vote, nip this in a bud, and let's move on. We have tons more Legacy Cup tournaments left and of course, the big kahuna next year.
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Croatia9514 Posts
On July 28 2015 01:47 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 23:47 2Pacalypse- wrote:
As a fun project, I tried looking at the previous tournaments where Scan has played to see if people complained this much about it and I couldn't find any posts where they were calling for his ban with this much vitriol. Two tournaments that are probably most relevant, since they happened less than a year ago, are Alchemy League and Defiler Super Tour which Sziky won (oops, sorry spoiler). Defiler Super Tour was only seven months ago, and while it's true that Sziky has since then went a bit inactive, I absolutely urge you to go download those replays of Scan vs Sziky. Sziky beat him twice (once in winners round and once in grand finals) and after you've seen those replays, it should help with breaking this myth of Scan being unbeatable. this is not even funny, I just give up. I especially love how you say DST is relevant, having ended less than a year ago, and completely ignore the last five regular DTs that took place in the last 4 months in which Scan destroyed the opposition. Truth is: + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +In other news m18m is at 67% winrate vs Flash.
On July 28 2015 01:55 juvenal wrote:
Not to mention that Scan offraces all the time and all the finals he's lost he offraced - including the one you recommend we watch. I'm starting to think that you maybe just don't quite know what level Scan's at. You suggest that people go practice - what for? To beat 200+ eapm B fish terran with TvZ being his best mu.
He offraced one game in the final and provided us with one of the best ZvZs I've seen (I still don't know how Sziky won that). All other games were ZvT and Sziky won the series. He also won one ZvT in a winners round. Really, all games were spectacular; I urge everyone to see them.
Besides, I don't even understand what point you're trying to make. Did I say Sziky is a better player than Scan? No. Did I say that Scan is not a favorite against any other foreigner at the moment? No. So please stop with excessive nitpicking that don't lead to anything and only derails the discussion.
On July 28 2015 03:20 dr.shrinker wrote:
Just want to say thanks for this great initiative and especially Rus_Brain for sponsoring this. I started playing some again fairly recently so I might just stick around and try my luck in one of these tournaments for fun.
My opinion from a viewers perspective (as I'll definetly be one);
Personally, the problem I have with Scan's participation is that it takes a lot - and here I mean an substantial amount - of excitement away from the tournament. I do agree that everyone can practice ever so much, but the fact here is that he'll pretty much be a default finalist and winner, stomping every foreigner you throw at him. There are no or very few foreign players in the scene nowadays that can take maps of him - let alone BO3s - and unfortunately the gap is too big to be closed during the time span of this tournament.
I haven't read this whole thread, but what I haven't seen pointed out is the fact that "FOREIGNERS" are still quite equal in skill, making this a much more open tournament and favoring those who actually practice if Scan doesn't default brackets. Yes, you have players like trutaCz that are extremely good, but there still are a lot of active - and inactive - foreigners that could contest him for the title with good practice. Unfortunately I don't see that happening if Scan is the opponent.
Thank you for the tone of this feedback. It's very refreshing.
I see your point, but you can pretty much replace Scan in your post with Sziky during TLS1/2/3 and it would still remain true. I don't see how we're having any bigger of a problem now than we had back then.
On July 28 2015 03:22 G5 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2015 23:47 2Pacalypse- wrote:On July 27 2015 05:33 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
im talking about the sactions mostly looking for the conclusion of the TLS championship where i took part in the 3 tournaments made and where was some ranking for participation and nows doesnt make any sense ? I'm not sure I understand this question correctly, but if you're asking if there will be some connection between the three previous TLS tournaments and TLS Championship, then yes, there will be. However, TLC is not connected to the TLS Championship. TLCs are just weekly tournaments that you can play in; or not.On July 27 2015 09:51 noname_ wrote:
Interpreting the rules you have made is indeed voicing many concerns dear organizers from the vast majority of the players` side.
I imagine the main problem of many players is not Scan`s skill level, rather, that he is Korean, and as it is in the rules: Koreans are not allowed to play. I feel it useless to repeat; zimp and many others already pointed out these rather interesting flaws in detail, yet they were ignored, however they are right, you are contradicting yourself losing your credence. This stubborn resistance by the organizers against this level of pressure from the players`s side amazes in the sense that it does not induce(d) any kind of change. The question arises in the public: are you really for the majority of foreign players or for just for one person?
It doesn't say that Koreans are not allowed to play, but the players inside Korea/China are not allowed. Then we had an addendum which tried to clarify that exceptions can be made, but after some additional reading and zimp's detailed post, we see how that addendum could've been misunderstood. We clarified the addendum now so there hopefully won't be confusion anymore with the wording of the rule. The whole eligibility rule now is: Who is eligible to play in the TLC?
TeamLiquid Legacy Cup series was organized to strengthen the activity and support of the foreign BW scene (read non-Korean/Chinese). Additionally, the purpose of this series of tournaments is to foster a practicing environment in preparation of TLS Championship. As such, the people eligible to play in these tournaments is everyone outside Korea and China.
Exceptions to the above rule will be provided to individual cases based on their participation in the foreign BW scene.Now you can ask what constitutes a participation in the foreign BW scene. That is a good question and it's up to our discretion. Scan's case however, should be clear-cut. His participation in the foreign BW scene is undeniable. Someone like Sea would be a much more difficult case to decide. While he has communicated with his foreign fans a few times on TL and was part of the TL pro team, he hasn't played in a single foreigner tournament and knows nothing about foreign BW scene itself. Note: please don't start discussing the hypothetical scenario of Sea to playing in TLC; we're just trying to clarify rules a little bit so the discussion stays on track. As a fun project, I tried looking at the previous tournaments where Scan has played to see if people complained this much about it and I couldn't find any posts where they were calling for his ban with this much vitriol. Two tournaments that are probably most relevant, since they happened less than a year ago, are Alchemy League (fun fact, it was actually Julia who was banned from this one ^^) and Defiler Super Tour which Sziky won (oops, sorry spoiler). Defiler Super Tour was only seven months ago, and while it's true that Sziky has since then went a bit inactive, I absolutely urge you to go download those replays of Scan vs Sziky. Sziky beat him twice (once in winners round and once in grand finals) and after you've seen those replays, it should help with breaking this myth of Scan being unbeatable. Uh... when I asked about TLS Championship: Show nested quote +Original Message From G5:
Hey,
Saw the post about TLS Championship. If I end up being seeded into that, I'll play. Just let me know whenever you guys decide how it'll work.
Thanks. you gave me this response: What I was told (and every other player who played the original TLS) was that there would be a big tournament at the end that would be seeded dependent on how you did in the first 3 TLS tournaments. We never got this tournament that we all were expecting. 2 years later it comes up and when I ask about it, you suggest I play this Legacy Cups. Are you now saying playing in the Legacy Cups has no determining factor on entry into the TLS Championship?
Me suggesting you play in Legacy Cups was immediately after I mentioned our goal of increasing the activity of the scene. Ie. I was suggesting you should play in Legacy Cups to become more active ^^. I can see now how my message can be read as me saying you will not be seeded or that Legacy Cups are connected with TLS Championship, so I apologize for that. You might get seeded; or you might not. We don't know yet.
As for the seeding of TLS Championship, that is still undecided until we get a better sense of the current scene, but there will definitely be seeding of some kind that will benefit players who played regularly in TLS1/2/3 and/or did good in them. The reason I said we won't be too charitable with the seeding of players is because we obviously can't seed every single player who played a game in TLS1/2/3 and, because of the unfortunate 2-year long pause, we didn't want to end up with a bunch of seeded players who stopped playing since TLS3 ended. I'm sorry again if there was a confusion with that statement of mine.
Just so we're clear, we have said number of times that the TLS Championship will also have open qualifiers, besides the seeding process. More details about that soon.
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Wtf 2Pacalypse. What point I'm trying to make - ok I'll make it as clear as possible. Is Scan unbeatable? No. Much like Flash, Jaedong and Bisu. Is it better now? Can you see how the tournaments end when Scan's participating from my screenshot?
ps: and believe me Defiler Tours especially the older ones gathered high-end players in amounts multiply exceeding the one in TLS.
Poll: The decision to allow Scan's participation is100% correct (13) 37% not true to the rules but correct overall (3) 9% true to the rules but Scan must be banned anyway (2) 6% 100% wrong (17) 49% 35 total votes Your vote: The decision to allow Scan's participation is (Vote): 100% correct
(Vote): not true to the rules but correct overall
(Vote): true to the rules but Scan must be banned anyway
(Vote): 100% wrong
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Croatia9514 Posts
On July 28 2015 04:36 juvenal wrote:
Wtf 2Pacalypse. What point I'm trying to make - ok I'll make it as clear as possible. Is Scan unbeatable? No. Much like Flash, Jaedong and Bisu. Is it better now? Can you see how the tournaments end when Scan's participating from my screenshot?
ps: and believe me Defiler Tours especially the older ones gathered high-end players in amounts multiply exceeding the one in TLS.
I'm still not hearing your point...
This is what happens when Sziky is participating in defiler tours (where he got 6. place and 3. place he forfeited his match):
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wqOmY8t.png)
Now please stop derailing the thread because you're not making any arguments.
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On July 28 2015 04:46 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2015 04:36 juvenal wrote:
Wtf 2Pacalypse. What point I'm trying to make - ok I'll make it as clear as possible. Is Scan unbeatable? No. Much like Flash, Jaedong and Bisu. Is it better now? Can you see how the tournaments end when Scan's participating from my screenshot?
ps: and believe me Defiler Tours especially the older ones gathered high-end players in amounts multiply exceeding the one in TLS. I'm still not hearing your point... This is what happens when Sziky is participating in defiler tours (where he got 6. place and 3. place he forfeited his match): Now please stop derailing the thread because you're not making any arguments.
first of all - wrong. That's what happens when Scan's not in the bracket. And of course that will happen since Sziky is the second best foreigner if you count Scan. No one's ever debating that.
Second: my point is lame because it's a response to your attempt to prove I don't even know what. You posted a wall of text about your "research" on the matter of "Unbeatable Scan Myth". In reality your research turned out to be a mere cherry picking and a screaming one, because anyone who follows the scene knows Scan's true power. You yourself advertise his ZvZ (offrace!) against the best foreign Z.
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Croatia9514 Posts
On July 28 2015 04:53 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2015 04:46 2Pacalypse- wrote:On July 28 2015 04:36 juvenal wrote:
Wtf 2Pacalypse. What point I'm trying to make - ok I'll make it as clear as possible. Is Scan unbeatable? No. Much like Flash, Jaedong and Bisu. Is it better now? Can you see how the tournaments end when Scan's participating from my screenshot?
ps: and believe me Defiler Tours especially the older ones gathered high-end players in amounts multiply exceeding the one in TLS. I'm still not hearing your point... This is what happens when Sziky is participating in defiler tours (where he got 6. place and 3. place he forfeited his match): Now please stop derailing the thread because you're not making any arguments. first of all - wrong. That's what happens when Scan's not in the bracket. And of course that will happen since Sziky is the second best foreigner if you count Scan. No one's ever debating that. Second: my point is lame because it's a response to your attempt to prove I don't even know what. You posted a wall of text about your "research" on the matter of "Unbeatable Scan Myth". In reality your research turned out to be a mere cherry picking and a screaming one, because anyone who follows the scene knows Scan's true power. You yourself advertise his ZvZ ( offrace!) against the best foreign Z.
This is how I started my post to which you replied to: "As a fun project...". Now you're calling it research where I set out to prove some point. Please, nitpicking has its limits and you crossed yours.
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Nitpicking? Dude lol. You picked one tournament that Scan lost among 6 others that happened around that time and which he won, and you tried to make conclusions from that? Call it 'a fun project', call it a 'research', you can call it your phd thesis for all I care. That's a simple fallacy.
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Man there hasn't been this much drama about someone participating since Idra in TSL2 LOl
Btw, Idra was a progamer on a progaming team for 2+years and was allowed to participate, and guess what... HE DIDN'T WIN SHIT.
Man I remember how much money Rekrul made...
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On July 28 2015 07:13 DarkNetHunter wrote:
Man there hasn't been this much drama about someone participating since Idra in TSL2 LOl
Btw, Idra was a progamer on a progaming team for 2+years and was allowed to participate, and guess what... HE DIDN'T WIN SHIT.
Man I remember how much money Rekrul made...
Back then the competitive scene was WAY bigger in the foreign scene than it is now. There is almost no one to practice against in the foreign scene that is playing this game actively or competitively.
Back then the foreign scene had so many good players to compete with. IdrA was for sure one of the best for a very long time and yes he won quite a few tournaments back then.
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EPT
