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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
As for Paranoid Android, we are not averse to changing maps at all for TLC and we had a certain condition to fulfill which was why the map was chosen. Either way, TLC should be starting soon enough, so, let's all just relax for a bit and enjoy watching BW!  | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On July 26 2015 00:52 BigFan wrote: Guys, please, re-read some of 2pac's posts. As he already stated, we read every post in this thread and discuss the contents internally. We are watching TLC closely and will make changes as needed based on data collected. We do appreciate the feedback from our community members despite how it seems at times. As for Paranoid Android, we are not averse to changing maps at all for TLC and we had a certain condition to fulfill which was why the map was chosen. Either way, TLC should be starting soon enough, so, let's all just relax for a bit and enjoy watching BW! Paranoid Android is a good map I have good memories on, don't get me wrong - I like the map. It's just that top base beats bottom one in most, if not all, MUs - especially in mirror ones. Just invite people to thoroughly test it and make changes accordingly to the map and it could be pretty good to go. I would still like a response to my post on top of Page 21 though. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On July 26 2015 00:58 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Paranoid Android is a good map I have good memories on, don't get me wrong - I like the map. It's just that top base beats bottom one in most, if not all, MUs - especially in mirror ones. Just invite people to thoroughly test it and make changes accordingly to the map and it could be pretty good to go. I still would like my questions being answered though. They are right there, on top of Page 21. Of course, I know you weren't saying it's terrible Since this is the first TLC, our goal is to make sure everything runs right and we collect data on how things go. There is even a good chance that we'll replace it in the next TLC, but, it'll have to be a decision agreed on by all staff. All I wanted was to let members know, that yes, we are reading each and every post and are discussing it. We want TLC to be a fun event for the community and provide some entertaining games As for the questions, all I can say is that I wasn't involved in TLS organization. I am one of the admins for this tourney though. As for community feedback, we're looking at it as it comes in. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19366 Posts
On July 25 2015 23:59 juvenal wrote: true but you get what I mean don't you? You prohibit chinese players (as if they ever cared) from participating, but allow a korean guy (who's supposedly almost like a foreigner) that plays in chinese leagues. Why ban chinese at all then? Playing in COSL is literally the quality check for them, only the best do, but somehow for Scan it doesn't matter. Yeah I realize I'm being real obnoxious and picky here and I respect the organizers personally, especially BisuDagger and 2Pac for your immense contributions to the foreign BW. But! The issue seems very principal (possibly the last big foreign tournament and foreigners are about to get rekt by a korean) and it feels like you just reinvent the rules each time to legalize Scan. After the major tournament there will most definitely be more. 2Pac and gang are always pursuing more ways to acquire money and sponsors among a list of many other things to ensure a future for Brood War outside Korea. @Everyone, we have heard everything you said. We are not blizzard. Don't keep slamming us like a big corporation and remember that we are as passionate as you are. I am asking please to take a break in that anger as we try and find the best solution instead of the easiest one. I love that you all care this much and trust me this has been non stop talked about for a week now in our skype chat. @Eon who I specifically targeted earlier in this thread. I'm sorry for what I said to you. Sometimes it is hard to stand on the sidelines as people say hurtful things after we have worked so hard to build something as great as possible. I know your role in the community as well as anyone else and appreciate what you do. The best thing to help us right now, is to show support today. Whether you will play or watch, your involvement is needed. Thank you all. | ||
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Jukado
805 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/490990-tlc-teamliquid-legacy-cup-2015-map-discussion | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9539 Posts
On July 26 2015 01:40 CardinalAllin wrote: Thought Id separate out the map discussion from the other subjects to here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/490990-tlc-teamliquid-legacy-cup-2015-map-discussion Awesome, thanks! | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On July 26 2015 01:07 BigFan wrote: ... All I wanted was to let members know, that yes, we are reading each and every post and are discussing it. ... Great, I await a response to my bigger post on the top of Page 21. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On July 26 2015 00:50 juvenal wrote: Pro7ect grew up in Russia, speaks russian fluently, never played in korean leagues, never practiced with ex-pros, was very active in the russian bw community. He's the korean you're looking for when it comes to real contributions, e.g. he arranged for In_Dove to do a livestream with Pro7ect on skype translating questions from forumers, translating the answers and whatever knowledge Dove decided to share. And it was long before the snipealots, let alone afreeca streams being available. Thank you very much, juvenal. | ||
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SuGo
United States681 Posts
On July 25 2015 20:13 2Pacalypse- wrote: This is pretty close; but I already said before that banning someone based on their ethnicity (or citizenship) is not a good reason. I know it's in there so it targets Scan specifically and I have to give you kudos for that, because it sort of works. Besides that, calling Scan's few games in SRT two years ago can hardly be called competing in the korean professional scene. If he really does start participating in the korean "professional" scene, we're willing to review our decision. Another way to put it is a player who has been member of the foreigner community for a long time, recognized by fans, participated in many foreigner tournaments / showmatches etc. I don't think there's an official definition of the term "foreigner", but making one based on the ethnicity, location or citizenship is a wrong one, in my opinion. We want a bigger and better TLS as well, we just hope that we don't have to compromise our principles to get there. ProtossGG said it in the clearest way possible what everyone who is opposed to Scan playing is thinking, but no one wanted to say it outright because it would make them look bad and petty (ok, some did probably): "Scan, I respect this. And you're totally right - there's no LOGICAL reasoning to have you out, except, as I think I said it best, that you're TOO good. I'm not saying it's fair at all to kick someone out for being as good as you are." So if we did ban Scan, we would have to do it like this. It would not be fair to Scan and it would not be fair to his fans who wants to see him play. And while ProtossGG's suggestion of having a community poll is very alluring so we can put all of this behind us, there are some inherent problems with a polling system when it's not done carefully and with resources we don't have, ie. random distribution of participants and having those participants fully informed about the issue they're voting on. Also, there were quite a few problems with TLS's, especially towards the end, that I don't believe we'll solve by keeping the status quo artificially (no, having a slightly bigger prize pool is not enough to change the status quo). Thanks for the acknowledgement, 2Pac. If you guys do go about using my suggestion, I would love to be looped in to help you guys formalize an unbiased voting platform / continue progressing this idea. | ||
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FyRe_DragOn
Canada2056 Posts
Besides that, calling Scan's few games in SRT two years ago can hardly be called competing in the korean professional scene. If he really does start participating in the korean "professional" scene, we're willing to review our decision. lol? yeah it can, he competed in the korean pro scene, the srt is evidence of it, end of story. You repeatedly say that if he "starts" participating in the korean pro scene you would reconsider, and then ignore solid evidence that he already has...wtf more do you want? And on top of that, you also ignored the part where I mentioned he claims to have been a b-team practice partner at age 11, so thats two instances of him participating in the korean pro scene. | ||
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10746 Posts
On July 26 2015 07:33 dRaW wrote: Good viewer count, but I didn't see many players return yet. Maybe in the next few weeks... One can only hope! | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On July 26 2015 01:44 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Great, I await a response to my bigger post on the top of Page 21. here is another suggestion: why don't you give admins a list of the good foreigners who refuse to play because of Scan? Not those who have little time or little motivation for BW, but those explicitly, just and only for Scan, do not play in this event but otherwise would give 100% That would be truly interesting, im not sarcastic here. It's unclear to me, how many people are "boycotting" this tournament and having at least an idea of this number would give admins an idea of how many players see it the way you do. Just looking at the thread it is hard to say if only a vocal minority is speaking here or if the majority is agreeing silently too. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19366 Posts
On July 26 2015 08:03 Cele wrote: here is another suggestion: why don't you give admins a list of the good foreigners who refuse to play because of Scan? Not those who have little time or little motivation for BW, but those explicitly, just and only for Scan, do not play in this event but otherwise would give 100% That would be truly interesting, im not sarcastic here. It's unclear to me, how many people are "boycotting" this tournament and having at least an idea of this number would give admins an idea of how many players see it the way you do. Just looking at the thread it is hard to say if only a vocal minority is speaking here or if the majority is agreeing silently too. 500+ viewers at peak times. Scan losing two games in the finals. I'd say this was a great first tourney and clearly lots of people are interested. Thank you everyone who is watching and showing support. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
I tuned in for 10 seconds to see trutaCz vs Scan's weakest race - P, on Match point, in sickest of all lag with 2 observers. As dRaW said - good viewer count but the players? This is the least amount of players involved in a TL BW event I've ever seen probably. Perhaps it's just inactivty issues or some other issues. Still expecting a reply to my post on top of Page 21. | ||
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13Julia
Canada231 Posts
500+ viewers at peak times. Scan losing two games in the finals. I'd say this was a great first tourney and clearly lots of people are interested. Thank you everyone who is watching and showing support. Always wonder why 'fanboy-type' people so limited. No point even discussing anything. Scan is not part of a foreign community and will never be, he is payed to be part of the community. He is an act, and the moderators are jumping around him like monkeys around a banana, making sure he wins everything. Now he defends himself so vocaly, who wouldn't in such circumstances? Great tourney? Facepalm. +1 I wouldn't mind him playing, if he didn't have lag. When a moderator enters a game for 5 seconds and says "it's playable", I know I am dealing with people who don't play starcraft at all. | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
I think the overwhelming majority of the viewers in the chat had a similarly great experience cheering against Scan but also enjoying some of his shenanigans and high level play. Besides Julia complaining about lag (wow) I didn't notice any bigger complaints from the players, though the few we got we collected and they'll be taken into account. The players were all very cooperative and showed us some entertaining games, for which I can only thank them as always. Some things did go wrong this time for sure though. There was no translation of the news on the russian portals until the cup had already started, we had trouble getting replays due to a new system so some were casted simply for the fact that we literally had 0 other replays to work with at the time, despite 4 people ready for reviewing games for casters. And there are other minor issues. We'll be better prepared the next time. This is only my personal opinion and maybe it'll turn out different but I think we should wait at least 1 or 2 more tours before evaluating our observations and player/fan feedback and making any major adjustments. Seems like the logical way to go about things, so please keep the feedback coming. Also please keep in mind that pretty much all of us working on this are already people that spend hours on our TL-related activities on a daily basis. It's our hobby but it comes with short and long-term responsibilities that can eat up a lot of time and put you under stress. Keeping up in discussions that tend to get into loops can become quite time consuming, so please don't think you're being deliberately ignored. | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On July 26 2015 22:13 13Julia wrote: +1 I wouldn't mind him playing, if he didn't have lag. When a moderator enters a game for 5 seconds and says "it's playable", I know I am dealing with people who don't play starcraft at all. I never understood how people can not grow out of this kind of argument. If you wouldn't behave like a total idiot admins might be ready to listen. "oh look, they don't get my child what I want, I will flame them for [not playing the game][having no real life][random insult]". Ffs, if you could do better go to Brain and get some money. Sadly you can't, so at least manner up kiddo. | ||
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Piste
6183 Posts
On July 18 2015 21:30 2Pacalypse- wrote: Why did you left out the the most important part of the eligibility rule in Scan case? How is it not clear enough that those who are a part of the foreign BW scene are allowed to play? Why is that unfair? Being Korean doesn't give you superpowers in BW... It does not, but obviously it gives more in-depth sources for learning and strategies if you understand korean. Also it's easier to get games from koreans (who plays on higher level). But I want to see Scan vs Sziky tho, but hopefully rest of the better foreigners doesn't get too disencouraged. | ||
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