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Gem League III - Page 12

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28797 Posts
November 12 2014 12:59 GMT
#221
fast expand does not halt your scv production at the start of the game by 30 seconds. what you are suggesting is the equivalent of not starting to mine or build scv until I have 6 done and mining and the 7th building. it's a monumental difference.

boxer once tried to lift his cc to the nearest expansion on blade storm. That is a shorter distance, he followed it up with a genius cheese build, but it still failed. And I am very willing to play a game where I pledge to fast expand and you pledge to liftoff your cc, I think even tvt (of which I have played less than 5 games in the past 6 years) I'd be left with a significant advantage.
Moderator
GeLaar
Profile Joined January 2003
2421 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-12 13:18:15
November 12 2014 13:13 GMT
#222
On November 12 2014 21:59 Liquid`Drone wrote:
fast expand does not halt your scv production at the start of the game by 30 seconds. what you are suggesting is the equivalent of not starting to mine or build scv until I have 6 done and mining and the 7th building. it's a monumental difference.

boxer once tried to lift his cc to the nearest expansion on blade storm. That is a shorter distance, he followed it up with a genius cheese build, but it still failed. And I am very willing to play a game where I pledge to fast expand and you pledge to liftoff your cc, I think even tvt (of which I have played less than 5 games in the past 6 years) I'd be left with a significant advantage.


You would certainly be left with a big advantage, but on this map you would be forced to play a low gas build while I could play a regular build, assuming I would survive the first five minutes. Boxer tried lifting off on a normal map. My whole point was that on "mizu de chaud", the mains being basically worthless forces you to expand, which hinders you from punishing the lift off.

If we're pledging builds, it makes sense to me that you would pledge to expand to your natural (the 2-geyser one), not the same expansion that I would lift off to, because you would not normally expand there blindly. Expanding there only makes sense if you know I am lifting off, and in that case you could just rush me to begin with. But we want to test a normal build against lifting off. Does that make sense?

So, are we gonna do this?
Brood War is alive and well.
Legionnaire
Profile Joined January 2003
Australia4514 Posts
November 12 2014 14:09 GMT
#223
I vote you do it. And Drone sends his first scv to block your CC from landing
My hope is one day stupid people will feel the same pain when they talk, as the pain the rest of us feel when we hear them. Twitter: @Legionnaire_au
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28797 Posts
November 12 2014 14:56 GMT
#224
On November 12 2014 22:13 GeLaar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2014 21:59 Liquid`Drone wrote:
fast expand does not halt your scv production at the start of the game by 30 seconds. what you are suggesting is the equivalent of not starting to mine or build scv until I have 6 done and mining and the 7th building. it's a monumental difference.

boxer once tried to lift his cc to the nearest expansion on blade storm. That is a shorter distance, he followed it up with a genius cheese build, but it still failed. And I am very willing to play a game where I pledge to fast expand and you pledge to liftoff your cc, I think even tvt (of which I have played less than 5 games in the past 6 years) I'd be left with a significant advantage.


You would certainly be left with a big advantage, but on this map you would be forced to play a low gas build while I could play a regular build, assuming I would survive the first five minutes. Boxer tried lifting off on a normal map. My whole point was that on "mizu de chaud", the mains being basically worthless forces you to expand, which hinders you from punishing the lift off.

If we're pledging builds, it makes sense to me that you would pledge to expand to your natural (the 2-geyser one), not the same expansion that I would lift off to, because you would not normally expand there blindly. Expanding there only makes sense if you know I am lifting off, and in that case you could just rush me to begin with. But we want to test a normal build against lifting off. Does that make sense?

So, are we gonna do this?


Of course I'm expanding to my natural.. and I'm not going to send my first peon to your base.

I'll be on iccup in op teamliquid, ToT)Eriador(
Moderator
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28797 Posts
November 12 2014 15:00 GMT
#225
That being said, I only have misu de chaud as an observer map - meaning it can't be played in melee mode, meaning that we're going to start with peons of all the different races. But we can pledge to only use 1 race.
Moderator
GeLaar
Profile Joined January 2003
2421 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-12 15:02:55
November 12 2014 15:01 GMT
#226
On November 12 2014 23:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2014 22:13 GeLaar wrote:
On November 12 2014 21:59 Liquid`Drone wrote:
fast expand does not halt your scv production at the start of the game by 30 seconds. what you are suggesting is the equivalent of not starting to mine or build scv until I have 6 done and mining and the 7th building. it's a monumental difference.

boxer once tried to lift his cc to the nearest expansion on blade storm. That is a shorter distance, he followed it up with a genius cheese build, but it still failed. And I am very willing to play a game where I pledge to fast expand and you pledge to liftoff your cc, I think even tvt (of which I have played less than 5 games in the past 6 years) I'd be left with a significant advantage.


You would certainly be left with a big advantage, but on this map you would be forced to play a low gas build while I could play a regular build, assuming I would survive the first five minutes. Boxer tried lifting off on a normal map. My whole point was that on "mizu de chaud", the mains being basically worthless forces you to expand, which hinders you from punishing the lift off.

If we're pledging builds, it makes sense to me that you would pledge to expand to your natural (the 2-geyser one), not the same expansion that I would lift off to, because you would not normally expand there blindly. Expanding there only makes sense if you know I am lifting off, and in that case you could just rush me to begin with. But we want to test a normal build against lifting off. Does that make sense?

So, are we gonna do this?


Of course I'm expanding to my natural.. and I'm not going to send my first peon to your base.

I'll be on iccup in op teamliquid, ToT)Eriador(


Can we do this on a battle.net server? I'm on Linux and I don't have ICCup in my list of servers. Long story...
Brood War is alive and well.
GeLaar
Profile Joined January 2003
2421 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-12 15:02:40
November 12 2014 15:01 GMT
#227
Edit: Double post, sorry.
Brood War is alive and well.
GeLaar
Profile Joined January 2003
2421 Posts
November 12 2014 15:03 GMT
#228
On November 13 2014 00:00 Liquid`Drone wrote:
That being said, I only have misu de chaud as an observer map - meaning it can't be played in melee mode, meaning that we're going to start with peons of all the different races. But we can pledge to only use 1 race.


But I wanted to play it in the Gem League format, with the other races and all! Why do you want to pledge not to use the other races?
Brood War is alive and well.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28797 Posts
November 12 2014 15:07 GMT
#229
haha I only have iccup in mine. Anyway though, I just looked at the map and.. did you really look at it yourself? The gas expansion only has 4 mineral fields.. And it's not really close at all, I think I'd be at 8 peons when you start building your 5th. When I said I thought I'd beat flash if he went a liftoff-cc starting build, I actually thought there were 8 patches and that it was quite a bit closer, now you're left with 4 patches with 1000 and 2 geysirs - which is hardly even any better than 8 mineral patches and no gas - and a big economical disadvantage to boot.. I'm also fairly busy today, but if you manage to get iccup working I'll take a 15 minute break..
Moderator
GeLaar
Profile Joined January 2003
2421 Posts
November 12 2014 15:14 GMT
#230
On November 13 2014 00:07 Liquid`Drone wrote:
haha I only have iccup in mine. Anyway though, I just looked at the map and.. did you really look at it yourself? The gas expansion only has 4 mineral fields.. And it's not really close at all, I think I'd be at 8 peons when you start building your 5th. When I said I thought I'd beat flash if he went a liftoff-cc starting build, I actually thought there were 8 patches and that it was quite a bit closer, now you're left with 4 patches with 1000 and 2 geysirs - which is hardly even any better than 8 mineral patches and no gas - and a big economical disadvantage to boot.. I'm also fairly busy today, but if you manage to get iccup working I'll take a 15 minute break..


Uhm, I think there may have been a big misunderstanding. I was talking about lifting off to the expansion that has one geyser with 6000 gas and 6 patches of 1500 minerals (the one that's on lower ground), and later expanding to the natural that has two geysers and four patches. The spot that I'm talking about really is quite close by air.

I'm not sure I can get the launcher to work on Linux. I tried it a few years back but there were problems. Maybe it's fixed now, not sure. I have stuff to do as well, but I wouldn't mind doing this some other time.
Brood War is alive and well.
GeLaar
Profile Joined January 2003
2421 Posts
November 12 2014 15:27 GMT
#231
Heeey nevermind, I'm on ICCup in the channel you mentioned. You up for this?
Brood War is alive and well.
Trozz
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3456 Posts
November 12 2014 15:37 GMT
#232
Float to the corner!
You'll be protected by eggs.
Still seems terrible.
A build is not a guess, an estimation or a hunch, a feeling, or a foolish intuition. A build is a dependable, unwavering, unarguably accurate, portrayer of your ambition.
GeLaar
Profile Joined January 2003
2421 Posts
November 12 2014 15:39 GMT
#233
On November 13 2014 00:37 Trozz wrote:
Float to the corner!
You'll be protected by eggs.
Still seems terrible.


Yes, I considered that too, but there are low minerals there. Then you're on an island with low resources while the opponent has the map. Still, might be worth doing it once for the shock factor.
Brood War is alive and well.
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3502 Posts
November 12 2014 15:39 GMT
#234
Even if you do manage to expand to the double gas, how do you plan on defending it?
Moderator
GeLaar
Profile Joined January 2003
2421 Posts
November 12 2014 15:41 GMT
#235
On November 13 2014 00:39 Kau wrote:
Even if you do manage to expand to the double gas, how do you plan on defending it?


With the siege tanks that only I will be able to afford. Mwhahaha
Brood War is alive and well.
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3502 Posts
November 12 2014 16:18 GMT
#236
Got time to play in about 45 mins?
Moderator
GeLaar
Profile Joined January 2003
2421 Posts
November 12 2014 16:23 GMT
#237
On November 13 2014 01:18 Kau wrote:
Got time to play in about 45 mins?


Perhaps in 45 as well, but 1:15 minutes seems a safer bet. Is that acceptable?
Brood War is alive and well.
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3502 Posts
November 12 2014 16:23 GMT
#238
sure that sounds okay
Moderator
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
November 12 2014 17:19 GMT
#239
good game and bad manner! aw yea, mission accomplished! :D
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3502 Posts
November 12 2014 18:16 GMT
#240
So I checked the rep and I had 10 workers when you had 5. I think you might just straight up die to a 9 pool. In TvT you might have a small window where you can get a vulture early enough to do damage but only by sacrificing a ton of econ so that vulture better kill everything.
Moderator
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