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On June 07 2013 04:57 DarkNetHunter wrote:Babo I really admire your ability to spin words, you're at the same time trying to make your actions seem more trivial than they were, whilst vilifying Rauk or anyone else for calling you out on this. I'd like to point out something you said recently in the DRIT thread. On June 05 2013 22:19 Jealous wrote:
I like to think of all DR events as being united by one core of principles, and as such I feel like dishonesty in one should affect you for the others. Kinda like stat abusers in TSL got banned from future events. I kind of feel like outright CHEATING in a tournament that has money on the line should warrant you being barred from the community and not excused to play a game regardless of what league or rank it is. You've attempted to turn this argument into one about skill, when in fact it is your pure self-interest to create favourable situations for yourself and your team. If this were any player other than Rauk facing you, YOU WOULD HAVE NO ARGUMENT. I think I would be more inclined to feel sorry for the rest of Khan and consider letting you play if it weren't the case that all your teammates seem to be your buttbuddies, along with Minister apparently as well. Show nested quote +[07:32:30 PM] Korean Grandma: don't get me wrong, beach, minister, newjet, kinggeedorah and myself were all assholes before we met each other [07:32:38 PM] Korean Grandma: ok maybe not beach and jet, we tainted them [07:32:47 PM] Korean Grandma: but when we were on the same team in college, shit got RAUNCHY [07:33:03 PM] Korean Grandma: you can look up the old CBW/CSL threads from 2009/2010, it was BAD [07:33:41 PM] Korean Grandma: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103101[07:33:46 PM] Korean Grandma: check out this interview LOL I will forfeit my game as well if you are allowed to play, because I don't think a league run on teamliquid should condone a cheater playing, let alone one who has been on this website for years under various accounts and then top it off by rewarding him for winning in the end and getting away with it. You are able to find a replacement, I think we would even be accommodating enough to let one of your protoss players play twice, you're the one creating this situation, not Rauk or anyone else.
Thank you for your compliment, I am a tutor after all. I will not deny that this skill is indeed useful in the real world. But I speak from the heart when I say I did not intend to "spin" this in any way positive to myself personally. I have only two goals as of now, even given the current situation: being respectful to my team and to this league, despite my grievances. Rauk's decision is in fact disrespectful to HIS team and THIS league, similar to what my decision was. If I had been trying to make this a skill argument as opposed to a moral, I would have made the point not the first point of my most recent response, and I would not have spent so much time harping about the moral implications of both my decision and Rauk's. I have not vilified ANYONE calling me out on this, at all. I have agreed with every opponent EXCEPT for Rauk, and the reason I cannot agree with Rauk is because his (and now your) decisions as to how to treat this incident have become wholly selfish in my eyes.
What has NewJetCity done wrong for you to forfeit your game against him? Do you really want to put an innocent player's enjoyment, effort, and involvement over his head and mine for my wrongs? If I get banned, so be it, I will accept this decision as being wholly logical and acceptable, and I do not pretend to hold any stance other than this. My qualm with Rauk was his decision that could hurt HIS team, which is exactly what I did. I don't understand why I should be vilified for preventing others from making the same mistake, and simply waiting for an official hearing. Your lobbying combined with Rauk's would surely be enough to set SynC's mind in banning me, and I'm okay with that. But, I also hope you understand I could not freely abandon my team without an administrative decision.
I stand by the post I made in the thread, and you are wise to point it out. I will never argue that what I did is excusable. However, stat abusing to get into a tournament holds personal gain; by giving my account away without playing a single game, I surrendered all personal gain from the venture, so the parallel is not congruent. I have always and will always do what is better for the team, like Bisu being forced to practice for ProLeague instead of MSL, for example. I feel that is an integral part of team chemistry. If that forces me to mar my perfect record, one that I have held through thick and thin over the years, so be it. I understand that this mentality might be foreign or unacceptable to others, and I agree with the logical fallacies present. But this is my opinion, and is the reason why I raise opposition to you and Rauk. Therefore, I will keep fighting until the last to be able to represent the team I am a part of to the last, based on administrative decision. If I were to just jump ship, it would be damaging to more than myself. I would rather sacrifice even more of my integrity than leave my team hanging, which is why this whole situation happened in the first place. I will not lie, I feel that to be a morally justifiable venture. As a result, I will patiently await an administrative decision.
If anyone were to be my replacement, I choose KingGeedorah. Just for future notice.
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the only person who is inconveniencing newjetcity is you. don't cheat, no problem.
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On June 07 2013 05:19 rauk wrote:
the only person who is inconveniencing newjetcity is you. don't cheat, no problem.
Why should my participation affect his honest play? I don't understand.
My participation in this league has been completely honest. Like I said, if you want to double-check, go for it. His participation has been kosher as well. Trying to tie my grievances to my whole team is a low feat imo. If I am banned or not, he should be able to play his game.
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No one cares if you never cheated in d ranks. You have already cheated in something related and you should be punished for it. That's all.
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On June 07 2013 05:26 rauk wrote:
No one cares if you never cheated in d ranks. You have already cheated in something related and you should be punished for it. That's all.
I understand this position whole-heartedly and will await administrative decision.
If worse comes to worst, I feel that Pebble should be allowed to field the rest of our team as captain, and if not that then TAKK to take the finals, in interest of continuing the league. I hope DeSPA agrees to either of these clauses.
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On June 07 2013 05:14 Jealous wrote:
Thank you for your compliment, I am a tutor after all. I will not deny that this skill is indeed useful in the real world. But I speak from the heart when I say I did not intend to "spin" this in any way positive to myself personally. I have only two goals as of now, even given the current situation: being respectful to my team and to this league, despite my grievances. Rauk's decision is in fact disrespectful to HIS team and THIS league, similar to what my decision was. If I had been trying to make this a skill argument as opposed to a moral, I would have made the point not the first point of my most recent response, and I would not have spent so much time harping about the moral implications of both my decision and Rauk's. I have not vilified ANYONE calling me out on this, at all. I have agreed with every opponent EXCEPT for Rauk, and the reason I cannot agree with Rauk is because his (and now your) decisions as to how to treat this incident have become wholly selfish in my eyes.
What has NewJetCity done wrong for you to forfeit your game against him? Do you really want to put an innocent player's enjoyment, effort, and involvement over his head and mine for my wrongs? If I get banned, so be it, I will accept this decision as being wholly logical and acceptable, and I do not pretend to hold any stance other than this. My qualm with Rauk was his decision that could hurt HIS team, which is exactly what I did. I don't understand why I should be vilified for preventing others from making the same mistake, and simply waiting for an official hearing. Your lobbying combined with Rauk's would surely be enough to set SynC's mind in banning me, and I'm okay with that. But, I also hope you understand I could not freely abandon my team without an administrative decision.
I stand by the post I made in the thread, and you are wise to point it out. I will never argue that what I did is excusable. However, stat abusing to get into a tournament holds personal gain; by giving my account away without playing a single game, I surrendered all personal gain from the venture, so the parallel is not congruent. I have always and will always do what is better for the team, like Bisu being forced to practice for ProLeague instead of MSL, for example. I feel that is an integral part of team chemistry. If that forces me to mar my perfect record, one that I have held through thick and thin over the years, so be it. I understand that this mentality might be foreign or unacceptable to others, and I agree with the logical fallacies present. But this is my opinion, and is the reason why I raise opposition to you and Rauk. Therefore, I will keep fighting until the last to be able to represent the team I am a part of to the last, based on administrative decision. If I were to just jump ship, it would be damaging to more than myself. I would rather sacrifice even more of my integrity than leave my team hanging, which is why this whole situation happened in the first place. I will not lie, I feel that to be a morally justifiable venture. As a result, I will patiently await an administrative decision.
If anyone were to be my replacement, I choose KingGeedorah. Just for future notice.
You're welcome, in an attempt to break through all the fluff you add to your posts I'll just highlight the bits I'm responding to.
1. You are trying to make it look like Rauk is being disrespectful to DeSPA and this league, when in fact he is upholding the integrity of this league, whilst potentially risking a minor "trophy" in order to uphold the moral standards of this league.
2. You're continuing to vilify both Rauk and myself here, implying we are doing this for selfish reasons when in fact this is for the integrity of this league. Your teammates are certainly capable of winning without you, they've managed to play and win games without you throughout this entire league, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to now.
3. I'm playing against Gorg and not NJC, maybe you're the one who should focus on his team. I am perfectly willing to play my game against Gorg, and I have practiced for it. I am forfeiting my OWN enjoyment effort and involvement because I don't want the administration to think the reason for Rauk forfeiting against you has anything to do with skill, it is a moral argument and should be upheld.
4. There was money involved in CRTL, there is personal gain, otherwise you would most likely never have agreed to this.
5. Holy fuck you have the guts to compare yourself to Bisu? You're more like all the matchfixers. If you want to do something for your team you should withdraw and get your replacement and help that person practice, because honestly your team's victory is just going to be tainted by your participation. If you want to put your team first you wouldn't ruin their reputation with your disrepute.
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On June 07 2013 05:44 DarkNetHunter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 05:14 Jealous wrote:
Thank you for your compliment, I am a tutor after all. I will not deny that this skill is indeed useful in the real world. But I speak from the heart when I say I did not intend to "spin" this in any way positive to myself personally. I have only two goals as of now, even given the current situation: being respectful to my team and to this league, despite my grievances. Rauk's decision is in fact disrespectful to HIS team and THIS league, similar to what my decision was. If I had been trying to make this a skill argument as opposed to a moral, I would have made the point not the first point of my most recent response, and I would not have spent so much time harping about the moral implications of both my decision and Rauk's. I have not vilified ANYONE calling me out on this, at all. I have agreed with every opponent EXCEPT for Rauk, and the reason I cannot agree with Rauk is because his (and now your) decisions as to how to treat this incident have become wholly selfish in my eyes.
What has NewJetCity done wrong for you to forfeit your game against him? Do you really want to put an innocent player's enjoyment, effort, and involvement over his head and mine for my wrongs? If I get banned, so be it, I will accept this decision as being wholly logical and acceptable, and I do not pretend to hold any stance other than this. My qualm with Rauk was his decision that could hurt HIS team, which is exactly what I did. I don't understand why I should be vilified for preventing others from making the same mistake, and simply waiting for an official hearing. Your lobbying combined with Rauk's would surely be enough to set SynC's mind in banning me, and I'm okay with that. But, I also hope you understand I could not freely abandon my team without an administrative decision.
I stand by the post I made in the thread, and you are wise to point it out. I will never argue that what I did is excusable. However, stat abusing to get into a tournament holds personal gain; by giving my account away without playing a single game, I surrendered all personal gain from the venture, so the parallel is not congruent. I have always and will always do what is better for the team, like Bisu being forced to practice for ProLeague instead of MSL, for example. I feel that is an integral part of team chemistry. If that forces me to mar my perfect record, one that I have held through thick and thin over the years, so be it. I understand that this mentality might be foreign or unacceptable to others, and I agree with the logical fallacies present. But this is my opinion, and is the reason why I raise opposition to you and Rauk. Therefore, I will keep fighting until the last to be able to represent the team I am a part of to the last, based on administrative decision. If I were to just jump ship, it would be damaging to more than myself. I would rather sacrifice even more of my integrity than leave my team hanging, which is why this whole situation happened in the first place. I will not lie, I feel that to be a morally justifiable venture. As a result, I will patiently await an administrative decision.
If anyone were to be my replacement, I choose KingGeedorah. Just for future notice. You're welcome, in an attempt to break through all the fluff you add to your posts I'll just highlight the bits I'm responding to. 1. You are trying to make it look like Rauk is being disrespectful to DeSPA and this league, when in fact he is upholding the integrity of this league, whilst potentially risking a minor "trophy" in order to uphold the moral standards of this league. 2. You're continuing to vilify both Rauk and myself here, implying we are doing this for selfish reasons when in fact this is for the integrity of this league. Your teammates are certainly capable of winning without you, they've managed to play and win games without you throughout this entire league, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to now. 3. I'm playing against Gorg and not NJC, maybe you're the one who should focus on his team. I am perfectly willing to play my game against Gorg, and I have practiced for it. I am forfeiting my OWN enjoyment effort and involvement because I don't want the administration to think the reason for Rauk forfeiting against you has anything to do with skill, it is a moral argument and should be upheld. 4. There was money involved in CRTL, there is personal gain, otherwise you would most likely never have agreed to this. 5. Holy fuck you have the guts to compare yourself to Bisu? You're more like all the matchfixers. If you want to do something for your team you should withdraw and get your replacement and help that person practice, because honestly your team's victory is just going to be tainted by your participation. If you want to put your team first you wouldn't ruin their reputation with your disrepute.
1. In upholding the integrity of the league he is risking damaging his team. This is a fact; any further opinions on it, whether mine or yours are pure conjecture.
2. This is of course true, and I stated this as such. However, my team mates will have a harder time winning with a 0-1 deficit. I do not want to inflict this deficit this upon them, whether I play or am subbed out. Those are the only two variants that I am comfortable with.
3. My fault, I do not mean offense but I often confuse you and artofturtle due to the 3-part names. Regardless, you said you would forfeit against your opponent because of my situation. That is unacceptable to me; I think my situation is understandable. Some of my players have expressed a distaste for playing at all if I was banned. This is probably why I thought of NJC before Gorg, who is also one of my friends. I will do what is in my power to convince them to play even if I get banned, but I hope that a week postponement and a TAKK appearance is kept on the table if they disagree.
4. I can't gain anything if my account is linked to another player's performance. You think that someone who stood to gain something would sit idly and gain the money that "I" earned? I don't think so. I had given up all benefits once I surrendered the password to the account, and I think that was universally understood, although I will admit I never checked.
5. An analogy cannot hurt. When my parents were in the midst of a divorce and begging me to choose sides, I paralleled myself to Atlas. It is simply an illustration of the situation; there is no need to expand it to being the same magnitude as the analogy serves. I think that it was a fitting one. Matchfixers did nothing to help their team because they all lost their games on purpose to gain money, which is the direct opposite of what I did because i. it was not me playing, ii. it was not a lost game, iii. I stand no financial gain.
5.i. I still fail to understand how my participation will hurt my team's performance if I am a legitimate DR player playing a legitimate DR game, as I always have. My winning or losing has nothing to do with any CR drama; it only has to do with my skill vs. rauk's skill. Nothing in that frame has changed since the line-ups were submitted. I did not magically become better. My indiscretion has not affected DRTL, my skill, or my team. Why should my game count for less simply due to my weak reputation? My team's victory is only 1/5th dependent on my own performance, and my performance is 0% dependent on the CRTL situation (unless we account for mood, practice time, etc.). Therefore, a logical fallacy.
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On June 07 2013 06:03 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 05:44 DarkNetHunter wrote:On June 07 2013 05:14 Jealous wrote:
Thank you for your compliment, I am a tutor after all. I will not deny that this skill is indeed useful in the real world. But I speak from the heart when I say I did not intend to "spin" this in any way positive to myself personally. I have only two goals as of now, even given the current situation: being respectful to my team and to this league, despite my grievances. Rauk's decision is in fact disrespectful to HIS team and THIS league, similar to what my decision was. If I had been trying to make this a skill argument as opposed to a moral, I would have made the point not the first point of my most recent response, and I would not have spent so much time harping about the moral implications of both my decision and Rauk's. I have not vilified ANYONE calling me out on this, at all. I have agreed with every opponent EXCEPT for Rauk, and the reason I cannot agree with Rauk is because his (and now your) decisions as to how to treat this incident have become wholly selfish in my eyes.
What has NewJetCity done wrong for you to forfeit your game against him? Do you really want to put an innocent player's enjoyment, effort, and involvement over his head and mine for my wrongs? If I get banned, so be it, I will accept this decision as being wholly logical and acceptable, and I do not pretend to hold any stance other than this. My qualm with Rauk was his decision that could hurt HIS team, which is exactly what I did. I don't understand why I should be vilified for preventing others from making the same mistake, and simply waiting for an official hearing. Your lobbying combined with Rauk's would surely be enough to set SynC's mind in banning me, and I'm okay with that. But, I also hope you understand I could not freely abandon my team without an administrative decision.
I stand by the post I made in the thread, and you are wise to point it out. I will never argue that what I did is excusable. However, stat abusing to get into a tournament holds personal gain; by giving my account away without playing a single game, I surrendered all personal gain from the venture, so the parallel is not congruent. I have always and will always do what is better for the team, like Bisu being forced to practice for ProLeague instead of MSL, for example. I feel that is an integral part of team chemistry. If that forces me to mar my perfect record, one that I have held through thick and thin over the years, so be it. I understand that this mentality might be foreign or unacceptable to others, and I agree with the logical fallacies present. But this is my opinion, and is the reason why I raise opposition to you and Rauk. Therefore, I will keep fighting until the last to be able to represent the team I am a part of to the last, based on administrative decision. If I were to just jump ship, it would be damaging to more than myself. I would rather sacrifice even more of my integrity than leave my team hanging, which is why this whole situation happened in the first place. I will not lie, I feel that to be a morally justifiable venture. As a result, I will patiently await an administrative decision.
If anyone were to be my replacement, I choose KingGeedorah. Just for future notice. You're welcome, in an attempt to break through all the fluff you add to your posts I'll just highlight the bits I'm responding to. 1. You are trying to make it look like Rauk is being disrespectful to DeSPA and this league, when in fact he is upholding the integrity of this league, whilst potentially risking a minor "trophy" in order to uphold the moral standards of this league. 2. You're continuing to vilify both Rauk and myself here, implying we are doing this for selfish reasons when in fact this is for the integrity of this league. Your teammates are certainly capable of winning without you, they've managed to play and win games without you throughout this entire league, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to now. 3. I'm playing against Gorg and not NJC, maybe you're the one who should focus on his team. I am perfectly willing to play my game against Gorg, and I have practiced for it. I am forfeiting my OWN enjoyment effort and involvement because I don't want the administration to think the reason for Rauk forfeiting against you has anything to do with skill, it is a moral argument and should be upheld. 4. There was money involved in CRTL, there is personal gain, otherwise you would most likely never have agreed to this. 5. Holy fuck you have the guts to compare yourself to Bisu? You're more like all the matchfixers. If you want to do something for your team you should withdraw and get your replacement and help that person practice, because honestly your team's victory is just going to be tainted by your participation. If you want to put your team first you wouldn't ruin their reputation with your disrepute. When my parents were in the midst of a divorce and begging me to choose sides, I paralleled myself to Atlas.
when i was 10 my mother and father were shot dead in an alley by cs1.6 hackers. this is why i can't abide cheaters. i hope you understand.
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On June 07 2013 06:06 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 06:03 Jealous wrote:On June 07 2013 05:44 DarkNetHunter wrote:On June 07 2013 05:14 Jealous wrote:
Thank you for your compliment, I am a tutor after all. I will not deny that this skill is indeed useful in the real world. But I speak from the heart when I say I did not intend to "spin" this in any way positive to myself personally. I have only two goals as of now, even given the current situation: being respectful to my team and to this league, despite my grievances. Rauk's decision is in fact disrespectful to HIS team and THIS league, similar to what my decision was. If I had been trying to make this a skill argument as opposed to a moral, I would have made the point not the first point of my most recent response, and I would not have spent so much time harping about the moral implications of both my decision and Rauk's. I have not vilified ANYONE calling me out on this, at all. I have agreed with every opponent EXCEPT for Rauk, and the reason I cannot agree with Rauk is because his (and now your) decisions as to how to treat this incident have become wholly selfish in my eyes.
What has NewJetCity done wrong for you to forfeit your game against him? Do you really want to put an innocent player's enjoyment, effort, and involvement over his head and mine for my wrongs? If I get banned, so be it, I will accept this decision as being wholly logical and acceptable, and I do not pretend to hold any stance other than this. My qualm with Rauk was his decision that could hurt HIS team, which is exactly what I did. I don't understand why I should be vilified for preventing others from making the same mistake, and simply waiting for an official hearing. Your lobbying combined with Rauk's would surely be enough to set SynC's mind in banning me, and I'm okay with that. But, I also hope you understand I could not freely abandon my team without an administrative decision.
I stand by the post I made in the thread, and you are wise to point it out. I will never argue that what I did is excusable. However, stat abusing to get into a tournament holds personal gain; by giving my account away without playing a single game, I surrendered all personal gain from the venture, so the parallel is not congruent. I have always and will always do what is better for the team, like Bisu being forced to practice for ProLeague instead of MSL, for example. I feel that is an integral part of team chemistry. If that forces me to mar my perfect record, one that I have held through thick and thin over the years, so be it. I understand that this mentality might be foreign or unacceptable to others, and I agree with the logical fallacies present. But this is my opinion, and is the reason why I raise opposition to you and Rauk. Therefore, I will keep fighting until the last to be able to represent the team I am a part of to the last, based on administrative decision. If I were to just jump ship, it would be damaging to more than myself. I would rather sacrifice even more of my integrity than leave my team hanging, which is why this whole situation happened in the first place. I will not lie, I feel that to be a morally justifiable venture. As a result, I will patiently await an administrative decision.
If anyone were to be my replacement, I choose KingGeedorah. Just for future notice. You're welcome, in an attempt to break through all the fluff you add to your posts I'll just highlight the bits I'm responding to. 1. You are trying to make it look like Rauk is being disrespectful to DeSPA and this league, when in fact he is upholding the integrity of this league, whilst potentially risking a minor "trophy" in order to uphold the moral standards of this league. 2. You're continuing to vilify both Rauk and myself here, implying we are doing this for selfish reasons when in fact this is for the integrity of this league. Your teammates are certainly capable of winning without you, they've managed to play and win games without you throughout this entire league, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to now. 3. I'm playing against Gorg and not NJC, maybe you're the one who should focus on his team. I am perfectly willing to play my game against Gorg, and I have practiced for it. I am forfeiting my OWN enjoyment effort and involvement because I don't want the administration to think the reason for Rauk forfeiting against you has anything to do with skill, it is a moral argument and should be upheld. 4. There was money involved in CRTL, there is personal gain, otherwise you would most likely never have agreed to this. 5. Holy fuck you have the guts to compare yourself to Bisu? You're more like all the matchfixers. If you want to do something for your team you should withdraw and get your replacement and help that person practice, because honestly your team's victory is just going to be tainted by your participation. If you want to put your team first you wouldn't ruin their reputation with your disrepute. When my parents were in the midst of a divorce and begging me to choose sides, I paralleled myself to Atlas. when i was 10 my mother and father were shot dead in an alley by cs1.6 hackers. this is why i can't abide cheaters. i hope you understand.
It was not a plea for pity, my parents are still together. It was a parallel inferring the validity of a separate parallel by example. Please pocket your animosity.
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1. I think his team is more like to stand behind him on this decision than seeing it as damaging them.
2.Neither Rauk or myself is suggesting your team should start with a 0-1 deficit, we want you to substitute for someone who deserves to play.
3. If your teammates refuse to play because they rather support a cheater than participate in this league that is their own decision, I won't get into a debate about whether friends should stand by their friends stupidity and selfish moral wrongdoing or not; that is subjective.
4. I'm sure Minister would've kindly donated you something in return for your help, but that is all guesswork, we thankfully won't have to know.
5. I was comparing Matchfixers in the harm they brought to the league and the reputation of it, not in their help to the team.
5. i. Your participation means that if Khan were to win there would forever be the shadow of doubt over whether there were illegitimate means used to achieve this win. That is the nature of performing actions that harm your reputation, they don't get kept contained to one instance of them happening. Your indiscretion has not affected your skill, that is correct, which is why I've time and again explained that this isn't about your skill. Your team's victory should be 0/5 dependent on your performance, they can replace you. You are not your team, your reputation should thus not affect them, which you can achieve by not placing your own wish to play before your team's upstanding reputation in this league.
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On June 07 2013 06:32 DarkNetHunter wrote:
1. I think his team is more like to stand behind him on this decision than seeing it as damaging them.
2.Neither Rauk or myself is suggesting your team should start with a 0-1 deficit, we want you to substitute for someone who deserves to play.
3. If your teammates refuse to play because they rather support a cheater than participate in this league that is their own decision, I won't get into a debate about whether friends should stand by their friends stupidity and selfish moral wrongdoing or not; that is subjective.
4. I'm sure Minister would've kindly donated you something in return for your help, but that is all guesswork, we thankfully won't have to know.
5. I was comparing Matchfixers in the harm they brought to the league and the reputation of it, not in their help to the team.
5. i. Your participation means that if Khan were to win there would forever be the shadow of doubt over whether there were illegitimate means used to achieve this win. That is the nature of performing actions that harm your reputation, they don't get kept contained to one instance of them happening. Your indiscretion has not affected your skill, that is correct, which is why I've time and again explained that this isn't about your skill. Your team's victory should be 0/5 dependent on your performance, they can replace you. You are not your team, your reputation should thus not affect them, which you can achieve by not placing your own wish to play before your team's upstanding reputation in this league.
1. I can see that happening, can't argue here, it's conjecture.
2. If you are okay with one player going twice and I get banned, that is what will happen, thank you (assuming you cleared it with your team).
3. I completely agree. I am just translating the situation as it unfolds on facebook.
4. Never heard of anything of this nature and it is irrelevant now anyways.
5. This is a valid comparison, I agree.
5.i. The illegitimacy is under NO shroud of doubt given that all of our replays are public and any cheating that may have come due to my participation would be easily cleared up by analysis. All of my replays and those of my team are kosher, I invite anyone to investigate. My not being in the line-up does not aid this situation in the slightest.
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Holy shit, you guys need to get off Babo's nuts. He cheated in CRTL. And other than the fact that it is a thread on TL.net, it isn't actually related to DRTL. After all, these are all user-created and managed leagues, not staff created and managed. The staff running them is different. Yes, Babo cheated in CRTL. The ONLY reason I see as justification for banning Babo from DRTL over that, is if Babo is banned from TL.net over it.
You guys need to calm down and stop making so much drama over this. Let Sync decide. If you want to be babies and forfeit if you don't get your way, then fine, that is your choice.
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If maciej cheated in crtl would you be comfortable letting him play in drtl finals? (assuming he wasn't c)
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Replace Babo's name with anyone, and I'd say the same thing with this specific situation.
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In my opinion, and this is opinion only, Babo should not play in the finals because of his shameful behaviour. His team has enough players to be able to have someone else sub in for him. If someone cheated in an MSL, they would most likely also get banned from an OSL too, and generally shunned by the community for their behaviour (e.g. Savior). Just because the two leagues are totally separate doesn't mean that cheating in the sport in general doesn't result in banning from the sport in general. You'll see that in any sport, not just StarCraft, but it certainly holds true in StarCraft too.
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If that is what Sync decides, then thats fine. What I'm saying is that it isn't our place to decide, and stomping all over Babo's nuts like this is childish.
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My unequivocal opinion is that Babo fucked up, is in the wrong, and should be removed from DRTL/CRTL as punishment until he can regain the community's trust.
Even still, rauk you're being an asshole and drama queen about this, dragging on the bickering way longer than it needs to go. The facts have been revealed and Babo fully acknowledges that he's in the wrong and is prepared to accept the consequences, whatever they may be. There's no point cluttering up the thread with this puerile mudslinging.
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actually, all i've said is that "i'll forfeit if babo plays" and "lol did you lie about needing to go work too." the rest is just responding to babo's essays on why he should be allowed to play.
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Everything you have been saying is unnecessarily, inflammatory, and/or drama-queening. Just let Sync make his decision, then do whatever you want to do, be it forfeiting or whatever. You started this whole new spree of shit posting with asking him "did you lie about needing to go to work", like what the fuck, who cares, what does that have to do with anything? Its just you trying to kick someone when they are down.
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Shrug if ur friends with babo I can't expect you to not try and defend him
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EPT
