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On August 16 2012 01:35 ]343[ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 22:41 Xiphos wrote:On August 12 2012 21:37 VGhost wrote:On August 12 2012 13:22 InFdude wrote:On August 11 2012 22:56 VGhost wrote:On August 11 2012 17:22 InFdude wrote:
Jangbi was the better player. You may pull out Fantasy stats but just look up his profile. Look what protoses he made his wins against (and they were playing sc2 at the time). Flash was also playing Sc2. The only two players left focused on BW were Jangbi and Fantasy and now we know how that one ended. And just my 2c but I think Flash would have lost even if he was focused on BW only. Imho he played to the best of his abilities last OSL and Jangbi still beat him. If Jangbi wasn't so lazy throughout his carrier he would have had much more than 2 OSLs. There's one lazy Protoss we know about: Stork. Because he straight out admits it. Jangbi's not lazy, that we know about, and he does have more than two OSLs. He also has two MSL silvers, a GOM silver, a Proleague first-half silver (07, lost to fOrGG) and gold (08, beat Chalrenge in the last set to secure a 4-1). We're not talking NaDa, Flash, or Jaedong levels of hardware here, but Jangbi's one of the most accomplished progamers out there despite a year-long slump in the middle or his career. By only 2 OSLs I ment OSL titles. And him having 2 silvers is exactly my point. The one vs Luxury could have easily been a gold. Also if you've seen the Nal'Ra starcraft reality where he goes around progaming houses, you would have heard Stork say Jangbi was the laziest and that often times he would just play for a hour or two while the others played 12h +. Sure. And New England could have won the Super Bowl, and Munich could have won the Champions League, and Barcelona could have won the Primera, and fantasy could have a Golden Mouse, and Feck could have not landed on his ass in the water. Jangbi's already hugely accomplished - why are you building him into some hypothetical best-of-all-time monster and then saying, "Well, he didn't get there 'cause he was lazy." He didn't get there for any number of reasons, and the easiest - and obvious - is that he just wasn't good enough. He's never been as impressive as Flash or Jaedong at their peaks; he may not even really have matched the aura of Bisu (or BeSt through his first years) until recently. Woah, I would understand Bisu but BeSt? JangBi have made into THREE finals while BeSt was humiliated by JulyZerg. The order of Dragons goes from Tier 1: Bork > Tire 2: JangBi > Tier 3: BeSt/Kal > Tier 4: Free. It appears you don't know how fucking good BeSt was (except vZ) in mid-late 2008. Especially at PvP.
Yeah, Best just steam rolled people out of no where. The funny part is that a lot of the times the micro was subpar.
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China6331 Posts
Does anybody know where to find the recording of the closing speech by the korean casters?
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same here + im searching the games casted by moletrap and torch
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On August 16 2012 01:35 ]343[ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2012 22:41 Xiphos wrote:On August 12 2012 21:37 VGhost wrote:On August 12 2012 13:22 InFdude wrote:On August 11 2012 22:56 VGhost wrote:On August 11 2012 17:22 InFdude wrote:
Jangbi was the better player. You may pull out Fantasy stats but just look up his profile. Look what protoses he made his wins against (and they were playing sc2 at the time). Flash was also playing Sc2. The only two players left focused on BW were Jangbi and Fantasy and now we know how that one ended. And just my 2c but I think Flash would have lost even if he was focused on BW only. Imho he played to the best of his abilities last OSL and Jangbi still beat him. If Jangbi wasn't so lazy throughout his carrier he would have had much more than 2 OSLs. There's one lazy Protoss we know about: Stork. Because he straight out admits it. Jangbi's not lazy, that we know about, and he does have more than two OSLs. He also has two MSL silvers, a GOM silver, a Proleague first-half silver (07, lost to fOrGG) and gold (08, beat Chalrenge in the last set to secure a 4-1). We're not talking NaDa, Flash, or Jaedong levels of hardware here, but Jangbi's one of the most accomplished progamers out there despite a year-long slump in the middle or his career. By only 2 OSLs I ment OSL titles. And him having 2 silvers is exactly my point. The one vs Luxury could have easily been a gold. Also if you've seen the Nal'Ra starcraft reality where he goes around progaming houses, you would have heard Stork say Jangbi was the laziest and that often times he would just play for a hour or two while the others played 12h +. Sure. And New England could have won the Super Bowl, and Munich could have won the Champions League, and Barcelona could have won the Primera, and fantasy could have a Golden Mouse, and Feck could have not landed on his ass in the water. Jangbi's already hugely accomplished - why are you building him into some hypothetical best-of-all-time monster and then saying, "Well, he didn't get there 'cause he was lazy." He didn't get there for any number of reasons, and the easiest - and obvious - is that he just wasn't good enough. He's never been as impressive as Flash or Jaedong at their peaks; he may not even really have matched the aura of Bisu (or BeSt through his first years) until recently. Woah, I would understand Bisu but BeSt? JangBi have made into THREE finals while BeSt was humiliated by JulyZerg. The order of Dragons goes from Tier 1: Bork > Tire 2: JangBi > Tier 3: BeSt/Kal > Tier 4: Free. It appears you don't know how fucking good BeSt was (except vZ) in mid-late 2008. Especially at PvP.
Despite that, JangBi showed better result than BeSt. So JangBi still superior.
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United States10328 Posts
On August 20 2012 23:14 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 01:35 ]343[ wrote:On August 12 2012 22:41 Xiphos wrote:On August 12 2012 21:37 VGhost wrote:On August 12 2012 13:22 InFdude wrote:On August 11 2012 22:56 VGhost wrote:On August 11 2012 17:22 InFdude wrote:
Jangbi was the better player. You may pull out Fantasy stats but just look up his profile. Look what protoses he made his wins against (and they were playing sc2 at the time). Flash was also playing Sc2. The only two players left focused on BW were Jangbi and Fantasy and now we know how that one ended. And just my 2c but I think Flash would have lost even if he was focused on BW only. Imho he played to the best of his abilities last OSL and Jangbi still beat him. If Jangbi wasn't so lazy throughout his carrier he would have had much more than 2 OSLs. There's one lazy Protoss we know about: Stork. Because he straight out admits it. Jangbi's not lazy, that we know about, and he does have more than two OSLs. He also has two MSL silvers, a GOM silver, a Proleague first-half silver (07, lost to fOrGG) and gold (08, beat Chalrenge in the last set to secure a 4-1). We're not talking NaDa, Flash, or Jaedong levels of hardware here, but Jangbi's one of the most accomplished progamers out there despite a year-long slump in the middle or his career. By only 2 OSLs I ment OSL titles. And him having 2 silvers is exactly my point. The one vs Luxury could have easily been a gold. Also if you've seen the Nal'Ra starcraft reality where he goes around progaming houses, you would have heard Stork say Jangbi was the laziest and that often times he would just play for a hour or two while the others played 12h +. Sure. And New England could have won the Super Bowl, and Munich could have won the Champions League, and Barcelona could have won the Primera, and fantasy could have a Golden Mouse, and Feck could have not landed on his ass in the water. Jangbi's already hugely accomplished - why are you building him into some hypothetical best-of-all-time monster and then saying, "Well, he didn't get there 'cause he was lazy." He didn't get there for any number of reasons, and the easiest - and obvious - is that he just wasn't good enough. He's never been as impressive as Flash or Jaedong at their peaks; he may not even really have matched the aura of Bisu (or BeSt through his first years) until recently. Woah, I would understand Bisu but BeSt? JangBi have made into THREE finals while BeSt was humiliated by JulyZerg. The order of Dragons goes from Tier 1: Bork > Tire 2: JangBi > Tier 3: BeSt/Kal > Tier 4: Free. It appears you don't know how fucking good BeSt was (except vZ) in mid-late 2008. Especially at PvP. Despite that, JangBi showed better result than BeSt. So JangBi still superior.
Jangbi certainly has much better results than BeSt (and I like him more). But Jangbi was never dominant; I don't get the vibe of fear that 2007 Bisu, 2008 Jaedong/Flash, mid-to-late 2008 BeSt (except vZ, doh), late-2008 to mid-2009 Bisu, mid-2009 to 2011 Flash, or 2012 Fantasy gave off. I'd put Jangbi's force at perhaps about the same level as fOrGG in Arena MSL: just beat the best players in the world, but doesn't have that... aura.
Hell, Stork was never a dominant player either; he was damn good, and a true threat to take games off anyone and to win championships--just like Jangbi--but neither of them could really instill fear in anyone but Terrans (and certainly every Terran but Flash and Fantasy cried when they had to play Stork/Jangbi outside of their slumps.)
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Jaedong raped 2008 all the year, his record is way better than Best. I doubt Best was relevant at all.
Even JangBi record is better, and he made it to 2 finals.
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I know this is kind of old but where in the twitch replay can i see grrr.... and elky? Lol bias 
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On August 21 2012 03:39 empty.bottle wrote:
Jaedong raped 2008 all the year, his record is way better than Best. I doubt Best was relevant at all.
Even JangBi record is better, and he made it to 2 finals.
...what? Best had a 16 game winstreak in PvP and steamrolled people in PvT
+ Show Spoiler +and got steamrolled in PvZ
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United States10328 Posts
On August 21 2012 03:39 empty.bottle wrote:
Jaedong raped 2008 all the year, his record is way better than Best. I doubt Best was relevant at all.
Even JangBi record is better, and he made it to 2 finals.
BeSt was the best Protoss by far for a good 5 months or so (starting with his OSL finals run, until Stork beat him in Incruit, basically.)
Jangbi has probably been "the best" Protoss for the last 6 months or so, but Bisu has been very close... and Jangbi has been less scary in PL than Bisu.
Note I'm saying this as an SKT antifan, so I don't think I'm that biased... XD
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id feel god awful seeing this off without it reaching 400 pages...
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United States10564 Posts
On August 21 2012 04:13 Taekwon wrote:
id feel god awful seeing this off without it reaching 400 pages...
does that mean we can spam? :D
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your Country52798 Posts
On August 21 2012 04:19 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 04:13 Taekwon wrote:
id feel god awful seeing this off without it reaching 400 pages... does that mean we can spam? :D
Yes? :D
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This thread brings back bad memories.
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On August 21 2012 03:25 ]343[ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 23:14 Xiphos wrote:On August 16 2012 01:35 ]343[ wrote:On August 12 2012 22:41 Xiphos wrote:On August 12 2012 21:37 VGhost wrote:On August 12 2012 13:22 InFdude wrote:On August 11 2012 22:56 VGhost wrote:On August 11 2012 17:22 InFdude wrote:
Jangbi was the better player. You may pull out Fantasy stats but just look up his profile. Look what protoses he made his wins against (and they were playing sc2 at the time). Flash was also playing Sc2. The only two players left focused on BW were Jangbi and Fantasy and now we know how that one ended. And just my 2c but I think Flash would have lost even if he was focused on BW only. Imho he played to the best of his abilities last OSL and Jangbi still beat him. If Jangbi wasn't so lazy throughout his carrier he would have had much more than 2 OSLs. There's one lazy Protoss we know about: Stork. Because he straight out admits it. Jangbi's not lazy, that we know about, and he does have more than two OSLs. He also has two MSL silvers, a GOM silver, a Proleague first-half silver (07, lost to fOrGG) and gold (08, beat Chalrenge in the last set to secure a 4-1). We're not talking NaDa, Flash, or Jaedong levels of hardware here, but Jangbi's one of the most accomplished progamers out there despite a year-long slump in the middle or his career. By only 2 OSLs I ment OSL titles. And him having 2 silvers is exactly my point. The one vs Luxury could have easily been a gold. Also if you've seen the Nal'Ra starcraft reality where he goes around progaming houses, you would have heard Stork say Jangbi was the laziest and that often times he would just play for a hour or two while the others played 12h +. Sure. And New England could have won the Super Bowl, and Munich could have won the Champions League, and Barcelona could have won the Primera, and fantasy could have a Golden Mouse, and Feck could have not landed on his ass in the water. Jangbi's already hugely accomplished - why are you building him into some hypothetical best-of-all-time monster and then saying, "Well, he didn't get there 'cause he was lazy." He didn't get there for any number of reasons, and the easiest - and obvious - is that he just wasn't good enough. He's never been as impressive as Flash or Jaedong at their peaks; he may not even really have matched the aura of Bisu (or BeSt through his first years) until recently. Woah, I would understand Bisu but BeSt? JangBi have made into THREE finals while BeSt was humiliated by JulyZerg. The order of Dragons goes from Tier 1: Bork > Tire 2: JangBi > Tier 3: BeSt/Kal > Tier 4: Free. It appears you don't know how fucking good BeSt was (except vZ) in mid-late 2008. Especially at PvP. Despite that, JangBi showed better result than BeSt. So JangBi still superior. Jangbi certainly has much better results than BeSt (and I like him more). But Jangbi was never dominant; I don't get the vibe of fear that 2007 Bisu, 2008 Jaedong/Flash, mid-to-late 2008 BeSt (except vZ, doh), late-2008 to mid-2009 Bisu, mid-2009 to 2011 Flash, or 2012 Fantasy gave off. I'd put Jangbi's force at perhaps about the same level as fOrGG in Arena MSL: just beat the best players in the world, but doesn't have that... aura. Hell, Stork was never a dominant player either; he was damn good, and a true threat to take games off anyone and to win championships--just like Jangbi--but neither of them could really instill fear in anyone but Terrans (and certainly every Terran but Flash and Fantasy cried when they had to play Stork/Jangbi outside of their slumps.)
I agree that Jangbi didn't have that aura of OP'ness that the others had. Well said
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Did you guys know that
Fantasy had a 82% winrate in 2012
Flash had a 70% winrate in 2012
and Jangbi had a 58% winrate in 2012
I just find it a little strange.
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On August 18 2012 07:01 BearStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 01:35 ]343[ wrote:On August 12 2012 22:41 Xiphos wrote:On August 12 2012 21:37 VGhost wrote:On August 12 2012 13:22 InFdude wrote:On August 11 2012 22:56 VGhost wrote:On August 11 2012 17:22 InFdude wrote:
Jangbi was the better player. You may pull out Fantasy stats but just look up his profile. Look what protoses he made his wins against (and they were playing sc2 at the time). Flash was also playing Sc2. The only two players left focused on BW were Jangbi and Fantasy and now we know how that one ended. And just my 2c but I think Flash would have lost even if he was focused on BW only. Imho he played to the best of his abilities last OSL and Jangbi still beat him. If Jangbi wasn't so lazy throughout his carrier he would have had much more than 2 OSLs. There's one lazy Protoss we know about: Stork. Because he straight out admits it. Jangbi's not lazy, that we know about, and he does have more than two OSLs. He also has two MSL silvers, a GOM silver, a Proleague first-half silver (07, lost to fOrGG) and gold (08, beat Chalrenge in the last set to secure a 4-1). We're not talking NaDa, Flash, or Jaedong levels of hardware here, but Jangbi's one of the most accomplished progamers out there despite a year-long slump in the middle or his career. By only 2 OSLs I ment OSL titles. And him having 2 silvers is exactly my point. The one vs Luxury could have easily been a gold. Also if you've seen the Nal'Ra starcraft reality where he goes around progaming houses, you would have heard Stork say Jangbi was the laziest and that often times he would just play for a hour or two while the others played 12h +. Sure. And New England could have won the Super Bowl, and Munich could have won the Champions League, and Barcelona could have won the Primera, and fantasy could have a Golden Mouse, and Feck could have not landed on his ass in the water. Jangbi's already hugely accomplished - why are you building him into some hypothetical best-of-all-time monster and then saying, "Well, he didn't get there 'cause he was lazy." He didn't get there for any number of reasons, and the easiest - and obvious - is that he just wasn't good enough. He's never been as impressive as Flash or Jaedong at their peaks; he may not even really have matched the aura of Bisu (or BeSt through his first years) until recently. Woah, I would understand Bisu but BeSt? JangBi have made into THREE finals while BeSt was humiliated by JulyZerg. The order of Dragons goes from Tier 1: Bork > Tire 2: JangBi > Tier 3: BeSt/Kal > Tier 4: Free. It appears you don't know how fucking good BeSt was (except vZ) in mid-late 2008. Especially at PvP. Yeah, Best just steam rolled people out of no where. The funny part is that a lot of the times the micro was subpar.
I remember how hyped BeSt when he went into the finals vs July, and got completely destroyed.
good times
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Did they release the finals recap yet? Considering this was the last OSL I pray that one is in the works if I haven't missed it.
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On August 26 2012 09:51 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 07:01 BearStorm wrote:On August 16 2012 01:35 ]343[ wrote:On August 12 2012 22:41 Xiphos wrote:On August 12 2012 21:37 VGhost wrote:On August 12 2012 13:22 InFdude wrote:On August 11 2012 22:56 VGhost wrote:On August 11 2012 17:22 InFdude wrote:
Jangbi was the better player. You may pull out Fantasy stats but just look up his profile. Look what protoses he made his wins against (and they were playing sc2 at the time). Flash was also playing Sc2. The only two players left focused on BW were Jangbi and Fantasy and now we know how that one ended. And just my 2c but I think Flash would have lost even if he was focused on BW only. Imho he played to the best of his abilities last OSL and Jangbi still beat him. If Jangbi wasn't so lazy throughout his carrier he would have had much more than 2 OSLs. There's one lazy Protoss we know about: Stork. Because he straight out admits it. Jangbi's not lazy, that we know about, and he does have more than two OSLs. He also has two MSL silvers, a GOM silver, a Proleague first-half silver (07, lost to fOrGG) and gold (08, beat Chalrenge in the last set to secure a 4-1). We're not talking NaDa, Flash, or Jaedong levels of hardware here, but Jangbi's one of the most accomplished progamers out there despite a year-long slump in the middle or his career. By only 2 OSLs I ment OSL titles. And him having 2 silvers is exactly my point. The one vs Luxury could have easily been a gold. Also if you've seen the Nal'Ra starcraft reality where he goes around progaming houses, you would have heard Stork say Jangbi was the laziest and that often times he would just play for a hour or two while the others played 12h +. Sure. And New England could have won the Super Bowl, and Munich could have won the Champions League, and Barcelona could have won the Primera, and fantasy could have a Golden Mouse, and Feck could have not landed on his ass in the water. Jangbi's already hugely accomplished - why are you building him into some hypothetical best-of-all-time monster and then saying, "Well, he didn't get there 'cause he was lazy." He didn't get there for any number of reasons, and the easiest - and obvious - is that he just wasn't good enough. He's never been as impressive as Flash or Jaedong at their peaks; he may not even really have matched the aura of Bisu (or BeSt through his first years) until recently. Woah, I would understand Bisu but BeSt? JangBi have made into THREE finals while BeSt was humiliated by JulyZerg. The order of Dragons goes from Tier 1: Bork > Tire 2: JangBi > Tier 3: BeSt/Kal > Tier 4: Free. It appears you don't know how fucking good BeSt was (except vZ) in mid-late 2008. Especially at PvP. Yeah, Best just steam rolled people out of no where. The funny part is that a lot of the times the micro was subpar. I remember how hyped BeSt when he went into the finals vs July, and got completely destroyed. good times
The favoritism was evident during the games themselves. The SC2GG group, after two swift July wins, claimed July couldn't hold a candle to Best in a macro game. I believe the term "straight up" was used. Then the 30-minute macro spankfest ensued and Best was swept clean.
Still one of my favorite finals.
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On August 20 2012 23:14 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 01:35 ]343[ wrote:On August 12 2012 22:41 Xiphos wrote:On August 12 2012 21:37 VGhost wrote:On August 12 2012 13:22 InFdude wrote:On August 11 2012 22:56 VGhost wrote:On August 11 2012 17:22 InFdude wrote:
Jangbi was the better player. You may pull out Fantasy stats but just look up his profile. Look what protoses he made his wins against (and they were playing sc2 at the time). Flash was also playing Sc2. The only two players left focused on BW were Jangbi and Fantasy and now we know how that one ended. And just my 2c but I think Flash would have lost even if he was focused on BW only. Imho he played to the best of his abilities last OSL and Jangbi still beat him. If Jangbi wasn't so lazy throughout his carrier he would have had much more than 2 OSLs. There's one lazy Protoss we know about: Stork. Because he straight out admits it. Jangbi's not lazy, that we know about, and he does have more than two OSLs. He also has two MSL silvers, a GOM silver, a Proleague first-half silver (07, lost to fOrGG) and gold (08, beat Chalrenge in the last set to secure a 4-1). We're not talking NaDa, Flash, or Jaedong levels of hardware here, but Jangbi's one of the most accomplished progamers out there despite a year-long slump in the middle or his career. By only 2 OSLs I ment OSL titles. And him having 2 silvers is exactly my point. The one vs Luxury could have easily been a gold. Also if you've seen the Nal'Ra starcraft reality where he goes around progaming houses, you would have heard Stork say Jangbi was the laziest and that often times he would just play for a hour or two while the others played 12h +. Sure. And New England could have won the Super Bowl, and Munich could have won the Champions League, and Barcelona could have won the Primera, and fantasy could have a Golden Mouse, and Feck could have not landed on his ass in the water. Jangbi's already hugely accomplished - why are you building him into some hypothetical best-of-all-time monster and then saying, "Well, he didn't get there 'cause he was lazy." He didn't get there for any number of reasons, and the easiest - and obvious - is that he just wasn't good enough. He's never been as impressive as Flash or Jaedong at their peaks; he may not even really have matched the aura of Bisu (or BeSt through his first years) until recently. Woah, I would understand Bisu but BeSt? JangBi have made into THREE finals while BeSt was humiliated by JulyZerg. The order of Dragons goes from Tier 1: Bork > Tire 2: JangBi > Tier 3: BeSt/Kal > Tier 4: Free. It appears you don't know how fucking good BeSt was (except vZ) in mid-late 2008. Especially at PvP. Despite that, JangBi showed better result than BeSt. So JangBi still superior.
I think best just has some confidence issues... His bw macro is BEASTLY.
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On August 26 2012 08:59 thezanursic wrote:
Did you guys know that
Fantasy had a 82% winrate in 2012
Flash had a 70% winrate in 2012
and Jangbi had a 58% winrate in 2012
I just find it a little strange.
Win when it counts right?
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EPT
