Phew, I was worried there wasn't gonna be a MBC vs KT LR thread. I guess you don't really even need LR threads for Flash all-kills, but it's nice to have one. Thanks!
I thought that maybe Reach's victory would pave the way for Yellow to get a game or two, but I guess Hoejja (now with a ten loss streak!) must be doing something in practice to convince the coaches that he's a good choice for set 1.
On January 31 2011 18:27 flamewheel wrote: Thanks Marcoso^^
lolustillawake
Better be rooting for KT :D :D :D
I'm rooting for concrete results to make PR easier ~.~
You should be rooting for a Flash 3-kill.
Why not an all-kill?
Is have KT on FPL + ace match flash + have flash on FPL + 3 kill flash still more points than all-kill flash / 4-0 KT? No idea how FPL is being scored these days XD
Btw, how affected might the KT players be by Violets situation? Even though they are professionals and all, that ought to be a constantly nagging pain in the back of their heads.
Quick and clean from Action. That hatch snipe at the beginning really killed Hyun. Is Action going to be on a win streak after his loss streak? Let's hope so.
I love how Flash is in the perfect position to never get an all kill. His team is too good to get swept 3-0 before he shows up, but not good enough to allow him to be sent earlier.
Lol, if Flash doesn't get to play at all the situation for Flamewheel will be so bad. :D The Flash fanboys will be all ''Durr, Flash is bonjwa and would've totally won any game if he was sent out, he just has too good teammates'' and the rest of the pack will be all ''Hurr, there's no way to know that and we can't give credit for games not played''.
On January 31 2011 18:43 Holgerius wrote: Lol, if Flash doesn't get to play at all the situation for Flamewheel will be so bad. :D The Flash fanboys will be all ''Durr, Flash is bonjwa and would've totally won any game if he was sent out, he just has too good teammates'' and the rest of the pack will be all ''Hurr, there's no way to know that and we can't give credit for games not played''.
On January 31 2011 18:43 Holgerius wrote: Lol, if Flash doesn't get to play at all the situation for Flamewheel will be so bad. :D The Flash fanboys will be all ''Durr, Flash is bonjwa and would've totally won any game if he was sent out, he just has too good teammates'' and the rest of the pack will be all ''Hurr, there's no way to know that and we can't give credit for games not played''.
haha, well this is how it always happens
Not really, last year people pretty much never had a case against Flash.
I was jumping between this stream and the SC2 stream, did Sea think that drone that was fighting his SCV was a scouting drone and Action was at top left?
Sea pushes out with quite a few marines. Takes out one of Action's injured Sunkens. Action pulls drones to fight and Sea's marines pull back with minimal loss.
Kinda scared for Action right now. He only has a handful of lings while Sea has many marines. The Spire is still going up, and Sea could take this timing to smash through Action's nat.
Action's been playing really unsafe lately, skimping out on sunkens and losing quite a few games to early mm pressure, and those were not even 3 rax sunken breaks ~_~
Action does some sick muta harass against Sea's natural, killing turrets, marines and SCVs. Mutas move into the main and wreck havoc on the mineral line.
Slick zergling flank by Action takes out yet another one of Sea's MnM groups with minimal losses. Sea pushing out with two tanks now, breaks the small lurker contain at the front.
On January 31 2011 18:59 mizU wrote: Sea just lost his whole mm force again. Should be gg.
Should be, but action hasnt had the best multitask, hes just gotten up to like 9 drones at his third gas, add to that sea's 2 tanks vs low tech and at this point, low lurker count, sea still has a chance to break here
Oh man, sea runs up the third gas ramp and takes out 3/4 lurkers defending there but the scan runs out so he has to run away SWARM yay, action has this now
How did Sea get to a late game situation in this game? Completely failed 8 Rax opening, traded his entire MnM army for like 1 sunken, lost a ton of SCVs to muta harassment...
Clearly, since Flash started playing practice games with one hand only in order to rest his wrist, his team mates have started getting their confidence back.
Action is just throwing away units at Sea's mech force with little return. Ling drop at the 3:00 does nothing. Sea just has too many vultures and goliaths.
You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
Ye, this game has been over for a while now. Sea is just being stubborn
I don't know why he is trying to break the middle like a madman, if he had just focused all his attention on stopping 3o'clock and 6o'clock from mining, which are/were very hard to defend for Sea, Action could just starve him out. Now Sea's position on the map seems to be pretty strong. 6 bases now.
my god, I don't know which is more imbalanced, lategame terran or lategame zerg. five minutes ago I was leaning terran, but goddamn zerg just has endless units...
this shit is insane, action's taken this to a whole 'nother fucking level. what a sick hive player, seriously...
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
Sea's at a disadvantage, but this game is by no means over.
Action's throwing infinity armies at Sea but that metal line has not broken once yet.
Action made a hatchery on the lower left base and is now being attacked by vultures. Action dropped against at sea's 5th base and killed some scv but that's it.
ACTION, Y U NO SNIPE SCIENCE VESSEL RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU?!? Seriously, Action is playing poorly. Making so many bad decisions suiciding into mines and engaging tank lines with too many casualties.
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
Sea's at a disadvantage, but this game is by no means over.
Action's throwing infinity armies at Sea but that metal line has not broken once yet.
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
Sea's at a disadvantage, but this game is by no means over.
Action's throwing infinity armies at Sea but that metal line has not broken once yet.
Sea tried to take a gas base at bottom left and moved his units but action caught them before they can siege and is raping them. now his bottom left mineral only is being attacked
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
Sea's at a disadvantage, but this game is by no means over.
Action's throwing infinity armies at Sea but that metal line has not broken once yet.
It might turn around if Action's 'z' key breaks.
Nah, doesn't even matter. Action is being sloppy here, but he is keeping the tank count low enough so Sea can never really gain any position on tjhe map anymore. It might still take a while, but Sea will starve eventually
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
Sea's at a disadvantage, but this game is by no means over.
Action's throwing infinity armies at Sea but that metal line has not broken once yet.
It might turn around if Action's 'z' key breaks.
LOL Action would win if Sea's "i" button breaks.
Action would lose if his "s" is broken ,end of discussion.
ACTION DROPPING ON SIEGE TANK AND KILLING THEM WITH OTHER TANK'S SPLASH DAMAGE but once again lose all his attacking units. Most of sea's tank is gone. All base on the map has been taken. sea getting only 6.
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
Sea's at a disadvantage, but this game is by no means over.
Action's throwing infinity armies at Sea but that metal line has not broken once yet.
It might turn around if Action's 'z' key breaks.
Nah, doesn't even matter. Action is being sloppy here, but he is keeping the tank count low enough so Sea can never really gain any position on tjhe map anymore. It might still take a while, but Sea will starve eventually
Actually at the rate Action is throwing food at mines, Action might starve LOLs
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
Sea's at a disadvantage, but this game is by no means over.
Action's throwing infinity armies at Sea but that metal line has not broken once yet.
It might turn around if Action's 'z' key breaks.
Nah, doesn't even matter. Action is being sloppy here, but he is keeping the tank count low enough so Sea can never really gain any position on tjhe map anymore. It might still take a while, but Sea will starve eventually
Actually at the rate Action is throwing food at mines, Action might starve LOLs
Ye, I can't believe this. It was like 7 bases vs 2 not too long ago. Sea with a large mechball now thouggh and seems like he will lock the bottom left
action finally tries to clear mines but its too late now sea has the left corner meaning they are on equal ground and maybe sea is in the lead now dont know too bizar match fir me to know
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
On January 31 2011 19:17 okum wrote: You people who think Sea has had any chance during the last 10 minutes should count the bases... (yes, it's ok for a zerg on 8 bases to throw away units).
So much for the action hive tech hype kt fans tries to tell people. But action did all the action all game and sea just tanks/mines his way to victory. Sea pulls a flash without turrets.
Action had that game in the bag until the mech switch came. From that point on Action played increasingly worse, and Sea played like Flash. Brilliant mech play. ^__^
i was telling myself why the hell isnt he getting more goliath since overlords are everywhere stop spamming voltures sea now i know lol well played by sea very dissapointed from "swarm master" action
I missed the first 15 minutes of the game, probably the reason I am not that surprised. If you just watched the second half, you just see a zerg throwing stuff at a mech-line for 15 minutes without breaking it. May have been 7 vs 3 bases, but Action missed that gigantic 10minute timimg window where he would just have needed to stop 3 and 6 from going up and starving Sea out.. But instead he tried to break the middle for unknown reasons.
Acton looked far more promising a couple of months ago
What a game. Sea really abused Terran metal for all it's worth to take that game after being nearly dead at the start. Good job, but seriously terrible play from Action to let Sea get back into that game.
On January 31 2011 19:28 mizU wrote: BEST. GAME. OF. THE. YEAR. MEGA RECOMMENDED LOLS
it was a nice comeback tahts for sure but it just shows how bad action is vs mech...he gave it away so badly
Well. Just mines and tanks really. It was like he was playing Zerg as... Protoss. Really few drops, and he thinks he can just run his army into a tank line.
Is there a reason he didn't even try a muta switch? Ninja guardians all up in Sea's factories? Desctruction of as many tanks with 12 mutas, even if they do get irradiated?
Seriously though guys. From what I saw, action never have much units and he had 5 base to make them from(when the mech transition happened) WHAT KIND OF MACRO IS THAT?
15 minutes before I thought of making a joke about teammates stealing Flash's wins, but in the end I decided to wait until Action has certainly won. Well... That didn't go very well.
On January 31 2011 19:31 Malinor wrote: I missed the first 15 minutes of the game, probably the reason I am not that surprised. If you just watched the second half, you just see a zerg throwing stuff at a mech-line for 15 minutes without breaking it. May have been 7 vs 3 bases, but Action missed that gigantic 10minute timimg window where he would just have needed to stop 3 and 6 from going up and starving Sea out.. But instead he tried to break the middle for unknown reasons.
Acton looked far more promising a couple of months ago
In the beginning Sea failed an 8 Rax, then lost his entire army in a failed sunken break and proceeded to lose a loooooot of SCVs to muta harassment. It's amazing that he ended up winning that.
On January 31 2011 19:28 HopLight wrote: Ok, so apparently Action has one of the best hive game vs bio but one of the worst vs mech?
Seems so. Those defilers seemed completely useless to me, plus he let them die way too easily all the time, Sea didn't even have to irriadiate them. I wondered why Action didn't make more use of plague at all instead of using useless dark swarms. He started with some good drops on the tanks, but stopped doing so later (sent in empty overlords?). I really like Action and hope he gets better results, but he really could have won that game easily.
On January 31 2011 19:32 Monkeyshark wrote: Seriously though guys. From what I saw, action never have much units and he had 5 base to make them from(when the mech transition happened) WHAT KIND OF MACRO IS THAT?
I'm pretty sure Action's macro was fine that game.
God, Kt has become so much weaker. ForGG vanishing and Violet getting sick, just when we were starting to pick it up and make a run for the upper ranks.
If only action transition into MUTA HYDRA around the end game where almost no vessel was left then he could have killed tank easily but I guess thanks to the ultra he wasted on mines that he had not much gas left.
On January 31 2011 19:31 Turbovolver wrote: Is there a reason he didn't even try a muta switch? Ninja guardians all up in Sea's factories? Desctruction of as many tanks with 12 mutas, even if they do get irradiated?
Surprise guardian switch has been tried many times and it basically never, ever, ever works. There was a period when everyone was like "GO GUARDIANS" and then a lot of zergs did (Kwanro, Calm, Jaedong) and lost every single game and then everyone said "LOL WHY ARE YOU GOING GUARDIANS."
It seems like a good idea, but it's just too easy for Terran to irradiate them or get literally *a* wraith.
That said, it's may have been a better idea than A-moving into mines over and over and over and over again.
On January 31 2011 19:31 Malinor wrote: I missed the first 15 minutes of the game, probably the reason I am not that surprised. If you just watched the second half, you just see a zerg throwing stuff at a mech-line for 15 minutes without breaking it. May have been 7 vs 3 bases, but Action missed that gigantic 10minute timimg window where he would just have needed to stop 3 and 6 from going up and starving Sea out.. But instead he tried to break the middle for unknown reasons.
Acton looked far more promising a couple of months ago
In the beginning Sea failed an 8 Rax, then lost his entire army in a failed sunken break and proceeded to lose a loooooot of SCVs to muta harassment. It's amazing that he ended up winning that.
Fantastic turtling by Sea.
Thanks for the summary
But that actually makes Action even look worse, lol. And we all know that Sea knows how to mech, he played this out really nice, no doubt about that.
On January 31 2011 19:32 Monkeyshark wrote: Seriously though guys. From what I saw, action never have much units and he had 5 base to make them from(when the mech transition happened) WHAT KIND OF MACRO IS THAT?
he had plenty of forces waiting in the middle of the map while each time u see sea's reinforcements there were like 2 tanks its just action suicided 90 % of his forces into mines and the rest got erased by the tanks he made no plans on attacking smartly but just a moved the forces there were like 6 or 7 moments where action forces passed sea's forces without attacking not saying its easy but hey if u cant control 8 bases why take them
On January 31 2011 19:34 Hier wrote: Too much unreasonably harsh criticism towards Action from our local "experts" here.
Nothing is too harsh. He was a zerg with a supply LEAD going into hivetech. He had completely crippled Sea with his mutas and had such a ridiculous advantage going in that nothing short of playing several leagues lower than his opponent was going to change that. And that's what he did.
On January 31 2011 19:32 Monkeyshark wrote: Seriously though guys. From what I saw, action never have much units and he had 5 base to make them from(when the mech transition happened) WHAT KIND OF MACRO IS THAT?
he had plenty of forces waiting in the middle of the map while each time u see sea's reinforcements there were like 2 tanks its just action suicided 90 % of his forces into mines and the rest got erased by the tanks he made no plans on attacking smartly but just a moved the forces there were like 6 or 7 moments where action forces passed sea's forces without attacking not saying its easy but hey if u cant control 8 bases why take them
No man, from what I saw each time he had around like 50 supply in his rally point in the middle then he go suicide them and decide to make 50 more then repeat.
I think the problem was that action let sea eat up the 4 bases so easily.
And I'm not being biased but as a zerg user, we all can agree that its rare for zerg to have a "han-bang push" compared to a terran. As zerg, you have to keep riding your advantage and keep winning multiple battles, whereas for protoss and terran against zerg, one good battle means that you can win from it. I hope I'm not the only zerg player that rides a huge advantage until a few misclicks and you're done :p.
My suggestion is that he could have harassed the 3 and the 530 way more in the beginning. Before the vults were up, if only action sent ling harass to those expos sea would have gone insane and gged. But no, action wanted to show off his late game defiler usage and lost.
Action also almost never put up swarms when running his army into the tank lines. A swarm here or there but he really needed to set up a swarm corridor to run units under so that they actually get to attack anything. ZerO did a far better job of this in his game against Flash.
Such a bad play from Action late game. He didn't commit to attacks, his harass was way way too late and didn't do anything significant. I don't know if a muta switch would have been the answer, imo he should have dropped Sea's base with cracklings and 2-3 ultras for support until Sea would have been obligated to move his tanks from center and than mount a full front attack on one of the expo's. His late drop into the main was somewhat effective, if he would of done that earlier and multiple times the result might have been different, throwing away units at minefields with tanks was bad. On the other hand Sea played really good despite his failures early game. All in all I feel like Action should have finished this game early with mass muta, Sea didn't even have a starport until very late.
On January 31 2011 19:30 LLXC wrote: If Action didn't suicide so much into mines, he would have easily won this game...wow
It's not easy though, zerg has to control so much shit
Well, if you know there are mines, you can still run a few zerglings in first. Instead of your whole fxcking army.
You know what often happens when you run a few zerglings first? They get shot by vultures and tanks before defusing any mines. Action's weakness is large army control. That's the difference between a top zerg like Zero or Jaedong and lower tier zergs like Action.
Action didn't even need to take it to late game. He could have ended the game with mutas if he decided not to switch to lurkers/hive tech. Sea's tech was so late mass mutas would have ended it before Sea could take a 3rd.
Action made so many "arrogant" mistakes. The first ultralisk attack was one of the biggest. He was hive tech in supply lead and he threw away his first 5-6 ultras when Sea's army wasn't even spread. Maybe he didn't know about the mechswitch but once he saw it he should have turned back, something action never did all game long.
On January 31 2011 19:38 thestool91 wrote: I think the problem was that action let sea eat up the 4 bases so easily.
And I'm not being biased but as a zerg user, we all can agree that its rare for zerg to have a "han-bang push" compared to a terran. As zerg, you have to keep riding your advantage and keep winning multiple battles, whereas for protoss and terran against zerg, one good battle means that you can win from it. I hope I'm not the only zerg player that rides a huge advantage until a few misclicks and you're done :p.
My suggestion is that he could have harassed the 3 and the 530 way more in the beginning. Before the vults were up, if only action sent ling harass to those expos sea would have gone insane and gged. But no, action wanted to show off his late game defiler usage and lost.
can anyone also agree that those drops were really weak? either a defiler and like an ultra or a control group of lings. If only action was more composed and went for bigger drops in the expos i think he could have had it.
On January 31 2011 19:40 StylishVODs wrote: Action made so many "arrogant" mistakes. The first ultralisk attack was one of the biggest. He was hive tech in supply lead and he threw away his first 5-6 ultras when Sea's army wasn't even spread. Maybe he didn't know about the mechswitch but once he saw it he should have turned back, something action never did all game long.
His opponent was floating his barracks all over the map. He was very aware.
he had 50 population in the overlords as well and what do you expect 8 bases drones take supply as well his macro was good from what i've seen its just most of them died to mines so many mines props for sea to refilling them with new ones
On January 31 2011 19:34 Hier wrote: Too much unreasonably harsh criticism towards Action from our local "experts" here.
I don't think it was unreasonable. I think most people know that running your army into mines... is generally a bad idea.
Mine sweeping with zerglings is nothing uncommon. Although there are valid criticism towards Action during that game, that's not one of them.
Was in one of the best position he can get with his opening. He ran hydra and ULTRALISK into mines. He let sea set up the 4th base with gas without any HARASSMENT until it was set up with some units. Didn't macro to a big army and keep on suicide his little troops into mines and tank hits before they can actually combat.
On January 31 2011 19:38 thestool91 wrote: I think the problem was that action let sea eat up the 4 bases so easily.
And I'm not being biased but as a zerg user, we all can agree that its rare for zerg to have a "han-bang push" compared to a terran. As zerg, you have to keep riding your advantage and keep winning multiple battles, whereas for protoss and terran against zerg, one good battle means that you can win from it. I hope I'm not the only zerg player that rides a huge advantage until a few misclicks and you're done :p.
My suggestion is that he could have harassed the 3 and the 530 way more in the beginning. Before the vults were up, if only action sent ling harass to those expos sea would have gone insane and gged. But no, action wanted to show off his late game defiler usage and lost.
can anyone also agree that those drops were really weak? either a defiler and like an ultra or a control group of lings. If only action was more composed and went for bigger drops in the expos i think he could have had it.
I was disappointed that Action didn't go for the production facilities until way too late. Lurker/ling/defiler could have done wonders at the factories anytime between 20-35 minutes, especially since Sea was defending at the front every time *just barely* with reinforcing tanks at the back.
On January 31 2011 19:38 thestool91 wrote: I think the problem was that action let sea eat up the 4 bases so easily.
And I'm not being biased but as a zerg user, we all can agree that its rare for zerg to have a "han-bang push" compared to a terran. As zerg, you have to keep riding your advantage and keep winning multiple battles, whereas for protoss and terran against zerg, one good battle means that you can win from it. I hope I'm not the only zerg player that rides a huge advantage until a few misclicks and you're done :p.
My suggestion is that he could have harassed the 3 and the 530 way more in the beginning. Before the vults were up, if only action sent ling harass to those expos sea would have gone insane and gged. But no, action wanted to show off his late game defiler usage and lost.
can anyone also agree that those drops were really weak? either a defiler and like an ultra or a control group of lings. If only action was more composed and went for bigger drops in the expos i think he could have had it.
I was disappointed that Action didn't go for the production facilities until way too late. Lurker/ling/defiler could have done wonders at the factories anytime between 20-35 minutes, especially since Sea was defending at the front every time *just barely* with reinforcing tanks at the back.
Seriously, did he not like the idea of doom drop? There was only a few turret at the natural where he can sack a few empty overlord and make a doom drop.
On January 31 2011 20:09 Tianx wrote: Well, look on the bright side: Flash gets to 3-kill against MBC and take back his rightful power rank spot.
Light could kill him again, if kt wanted to play it correctly then they should played flash then if flash loses to light then stats can come out.... oh well I'm not a coach so I wouldn't know better then them.
On January 31 2011 20:09 Doraemon wrote: stats just got out macroed
Like are you suggesting Stats didn't click on his gateways fast enough? That he was banking 1k/1k? His expansion timings were off?
"outmacroed" is a meaningless term to throw around by itself, and it gets abused far more than relatively harmless stuff like "metagame". I know I'm sick of it.
Way to go Sea, what a beast. Wow I wonder if Flash has the strength (mental and/or wrist) to pull another miracle. At least 2 TvT's if he hopes to win this.
On January 31 2011 20:09 Tianx wrote: Well, look on the bright side: Flash gets to 3-kill against MBC and take back his rightful power rank spot.
Light could kill him again, if kt wanted to play it correctly then they should played flash then if flash loses to light then stats can come out.... oh well I'm not a coach so I wouldn't know better then them.
by sending flash first u cant avoid the light vs flash circumstance by sending him last u let other players get some experience + sometimes avoid light vs flash which is still a very favorite flash win just not as much as any other player he may face in mbc team
whats sad is after we watched all these beautiful games by sea flash will come and slay 3 players with ease making it look easy too many times i've seen this happen its like watching one of those movies where the hero is slaying the bad guys dodging bullets and all that shit only to end up facing a wall ... and ,,,,THE END unless u look at it from the wall point of view (flASH) but thats like superman arresting bank robbers with the occasional lex luther with kryptonite (light) lol i'm sp stoned
I dont understand all this winrate discussion... It's common knowlage that past events don't influrance what happens in present. Revelant factors that determines chances to win are current form, overall skill etc, but not past winrate.
On January 31 2011 20:27 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this winrate discussion... It's common knowlage that past events don't influrance what happens in present. Revelant factors that determines chances to win are current form, overall skill etc, but not past winrate.
Flash's winrate in the last month is a good way to determine current form.
On January 31 2011 20:27 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this winrate discussion... It's common knowlage that past events don't influrance what happens in present. Revelant factors that determines chances to win are current form, overall skill etc, but not past winrate.
On January 31 2011 20:27 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this winrate discussion... It's common knowlage that past events don't influrance what happens in present. Revelant factors that determines chances to win are current form, overall skill etc, but not past winrate.
and how do you know overall skill? voodoo?
You don't know, that's the point! Nobody can predict result of the game.
On January 31 2011 20:27 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this winrate discussion... It's common knowlage that past events don't influrance what happens in present. Revelant factors that determines chances to win are current form, overall skill etc, but not past winrate.
and how do you know overall skill? voodoo?
You don't know, that's the point! Nobody can predict result of the game.
But you can make quite accurate guesses off winrate
Flash's vulture harass at the third and being within shelling range of the nat gas is giving Sea some problems, but Sea cleans it up with cloaked wraiths.
On January 31 2011 20:27 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this winrate discussion... It's common knowlage that past events don't influrance what happens in present. Revelant factors that determines chances to win are current form, overall skill etc, but not past winrate.
and how do you know overall skill? voodoo?
You don't know, that's the point! Nobody can predict result of the game.
But you can make quite accurate guesses off winrate
Yes, you can guess if you like. But comparing lifetime TvT between players I will not call accurate guess.
On January 31 2011 20:27 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this winrate discussion... It's common knowlage that past events don't influrance what happens in present. Revelant factors that determines chances to win are current form, overall skill etc, but not past winrate.
and how do you know overall skill? voodoo?
You don't know, that's the point! Nobody can predict result of the game.
But you can make quite accurate guesses off winrate
Yes, you can guess if you like. But comparing lifetime TvT between players I will not call accurate guess.
Wait what, flash has never lost to sea. How is it not an accurate guess to go with the 100% win rate of flash.
On January 31 2011 20:44 radadaundandan wrote: Flash hidihg his physics bay with an engeneering bay!
I've always wondered how that could work. You don't lift your ebay exactly on the physics lab by mistake. Unless he wants to make Sea think he's going BC while he's not.
On January 31 2011 20:47 nepeta wrote: Flash should try ops instead of labs someday, how scary would it be to be playing him and hear "nuclear launch detected"?
On January 31 2011 20:48 oBlade wrote: It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by their knowledge of siege tanks, but by their skill with battlecruisers.
The early Positional adavantage from Flash is now costing Sea the game because its nearly impossible to break this fortified BC tank line mb some nukes to counter?
On January 31 2011 20:51 Lann555 wrote: Flash gets the better of the BC pew-pew wars. Also seems to have the economic lead so I think he got it in the bag now
he also has 2:2 ship weapons while sea seems to just have 1:1
On January 31 2011 20:27 daskilla wrote: I dont understand all this winrate discussion... It's common knowlage that past events don't influrance what happens in present. Revelant factors that determines chances to win are current form, overall skill etc, but not past winrate.
and how do you know overall skill? voodoo?
You don't know, that's the point! Nobody can predict result of the game.
But you can make quite accurate guesses off winrate
Yes, you can guess if you like. But comparing lifetime TvT between players I will not call accurate guess.
Wait what, flash has never lost to sea. How is it not an accurate guess to go with the 100% win rate of flash.
Good game. Thought Flash was gonna fuck it up and lose to Valks like in MSL, but he managed to avoid that failure. Too bad he had to play such a long game though, considering his wrist problems.
Lol, Flash literally does the same thing every TvT and every Terran let's him get away with it like a complete dumbass. He figures out what he needs to do to get 1 more expo than his opponent and then wins because he has more resources.
On January 31 2011 20:54 Doraemon wrote: jaehoon next i reckon
Nah, Light first, then Jaehoon. Jaehoon has a better chance against Flash, I think, what with his PvT prowess.
Light actually has a better shot of winning against Flash than Jaehoon. Jaehoon is 0-4 against Flash, while Light is 2-6, with both wins in the last 6 months.
On January 31 2011 20:57 Goragoth wrote: Lol, Flash literally does the same thing every TvT and every Terran let's him get away with it like a complete dumbass. He figures out what he needs to do to get 1 more expo than his opponent and then wins because he has more resources.
Isn't that how you're meant to win in all econ heavy RTS games lol.
On January 31 2011 20:57 Goragoth wrote: Lol, Flash literally does the same thing every TvT and every Terran let's him get away with it like a complete dumbass. He figures out what he needs to do to get 1 more expo than his opponent and then wins because he has more resources.
You're giving flash a too little credit...he has obscene game sense and can take that extra expo without losing to timing pushes while keeping the pressure on his opponent....
On January 31 2011 20:54 Doraemon wrote: jaehoon next i reckon
Nah, Light first, then Jaehoon. Jaehoon has a better chance against Flash, I think, what with his PvT prowess.
Light actually has a better shot of winning against Flash than Jaehoon. Jaehoon is 0-4 against Flash, while Light is 2-6, with both wins in the last 6 months.
I'd say the choice will mainly rely on the map order, and which one practised most on which. We'll see.
Sea tries too hard to beat Flash at his own game. Light's more of a threat because he's got a few tricks and he's not afraid to take a risk or two. Hopefully our dear cult leader is aware and in charge of the situation.
On January 31 2011 20:57 Goragoth wrote: Lol, Flash literally does the same thing every TvT and every Terran let's him get away with it like a complete dumbass. He figures out what he needs to do to get 1 more expo than his opponent and then wins because he has more resources.
Holy fuck do you have a simplistic way of looking at things...
On January 31 2011 20:54 Doraemon wrote: jaehoon next i reckon
Nah, Light first, then Jaehoon. Jaehoon has a better chance against Flash, I think, what with his PvT prowess.
Light actually has a better shot of winning against Flash than Jaehoon. Jaehoon is 0-4 against Flash, while Light is 2-6, with both wins in the last 6 months.
I'd say the choice will mainly rely on the map order, and which one practised most on which. We'll see.
I agree. Both maps are relatively balanced for both TvT and PvT. But it looks like Light is out first.
Edit: I just remembered what Flash did to Best on Fortress. If Light doesn't pull through, this could be ugly for Jaehoon/MBC.
On January 31 2011 20:57 Goragoth wrote: Lol, Flash literally does the same thing every TvT and every Terran let's him get away with it like a complete dumbass. He figures out what he needs to do to get 1 more expo than his opponent and then wins because he has more resources.
“Scoring more points than your opponent is the key to winning those tough games.” - John Madden
On January 31 2011 20:57 Goragoth wrote: Lol, Flash literally does the same thing every TvT and every Terran let's him get away with it like a complete dumbass. He figures out what he needs to do to get 1 more expo than his opponent and then wins because he has more resources.
Holy fuck do you have a simplistic way of looking at things...
If only the other players knew about this trick
fact is, it was a long game but flash was never in any trouble he had this game after the early contains pretty much.
On January 31 2011 20:57 Goragoth wrote: Lol, Flash literally does the same thing every TvT and every Terran let's him get away with it like a complete dumbass. He figures out what he needs to do to get 1 more expo than his opponent and then wins because he has more resources.
Holy fuck do you have a simplistic way of looking at things...
If only the other players knew about this trick
I think I'm gonna go to Korea and start owning shit up now that I know about it. :D
Koreans believe in PvT imba, obviously Jaehoon is last. He's also 8-1 since the start of the new season and if Light and Sea manage to tire Flash out, Jaehoon should be able to clean up.
On January 31 2011 20:57 Goragoth wrote: Lol, Flash literally does the same thing every TvT and every Terran let's him get away with it like a complete dumbass. He figures out what he needs to do to get 1 more expo than his opponent and then wins because he has more resources.
Yeah, they just let him get away with it. They don't have the uncanny insight that you have that produces profound breakthroughs like having 1 base more than your opponent will guide you to victory. It's not that they often times (but not always, recalling Flash's 5 game ace TvT loss streak) get outplayed over the course of a game while trying to beat Flash using the same methods. It's that they let him get away with it.
On January 31 2011 20:57 Goragoth wrote: Lol, Flash literally does the same thing every TvT and every Terran let's him get away with it like a complete dumbass. He figures out what he needs to do to get 1 more expo than his opponent and then wins because he has more resources.
“Scoring more points than your opponent is the key to winning those tough games.” - John Madden
Look, I know that it is stupidly obvious that you win with more bases. That's my point. So many of these pro players have all the mechanics and little cutesy tactics down but still seem to miss this this little fact in many of their games. Flash is one of the few that really understands this well and it is key to his high win percentage.
On January 31 2011 21:03 kuroshiroi wrote: Koreans believe in PvT imba, obviously Jaehoon is last. He's also 8-1 since the start of the new season and if Light and Sea manage to tire Flash out, Jaehoon should be able to clean up.
On January 31 2011 21:03 kuroshiroi wrote: Koreans believe in PvT imba, obviously Jaehoon is last. He's also 8-1 since the start of the new season and if Light and Sea manage to tire Flash out, Jaehoon should be able to clean up.
Then again, he is Flash etc.
Also, Light hates Fortress.
Noted. Incidentally, the Hoon is 3-0 on Fortress in PvT.
On January 31 2011 21:04 Savant wrote: Anyone notice Flash isn't seen with his ruler anymore? Glad the coaches upgraded range finders for his sensor array.
I'm just hoping that Jaehoon puts up a better fight than Best did last month on Fortress. It's the only time Flash has played TvP on that map and he made Best look like an amateur.
On January 31 2011 21:17 fallingdream wrote: I went to eat so I can have energy for the next TvT and possible TvP and when I come back I see Light going :OO and than gg, can I just ask, WAD.
On January 31 2011 21:16 StylishVODs wrote: jaehoon is 10-2 PvT in the last ten wins, and probably practiced to snipe flash, I hope it's going to be a good game then!!
Wow really? Since when did Jaehoon get good at PvT? I always remember him as one of if not the worst PvT player, still can't forget about his hilarious set vs FBH.
I'm not saying your wrong i'm just surprised haven't been able to watch a lot of PL lately
On January 31 2011 21:17 fallingdream wrote: I went to eat so I can have energy for the next TvT and possible TvP and when I come back I see Light going :OO and than gg, can I just ask, WAD.
Flash got sick of people trying to tire him out or soemthing and steamrolled light before siegemode.
On January 31 2011 21:21 Holgerius wrote: Flash vs Jaehoon it is. Jaehoon is indeed looking really good lately (smashed the OSL winner :D), so he will probably be able to put up a good fight.
On January 31 2011 21:22 zmeqt wrote: Either way this is going to be hilarious!Either JH fails hilariously or he wins with some kind of miracle which will also be hilarious.
Funny build by Flash, although he probably wins with a straight up push just as well. He had more tanks then Jaehoon had dragoons,so it wouldn't have mattered anyway
Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
Flash's plan was beautiful He notices that Jaehoon is going for fast DTs -> Fast Arb, meaning a delayed robo, so no way Jaehoon would've scouted the marines in time, absolutely no chance for hoon to stop it even if he didn't get the 3rd base
On January 31 2011 21:37 Malinor wrote: Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
If you have been watching recent games, turrets at the front have not come that early in a lot of recent 1rax CC games. + Show Spoiler [OSL] +
See for example Fantasy's Stork-crushing builds that relied on a wraith or goliaths to deal with reavers instead of turrets. DTs that quick would have a great shot about that, I don't think scan would be done on time.
I also think Jaehoon thought his success with the early zealots put Flash off more than it actually did.
I feel sorry for everyone having to play KT because now they are more determined to win than ever due to Violet's condition. Imo everyone wants to win so Violet has an easy time recovering. I saw this desire in Stat's game, even if he lost I just felt like he went out of his way to make everything possible in the situation he was.
On January 31 2011 21:37 Malinor wrote: Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
If you have been watching recent games, turrets at the front have not come that early in a lot of recent 1rax CC games. + Show Spoiler [OSL] +
See for example Fantasy's Stork-crushing builds that relied on a wraith or goliaths to deal with reavers instead of turrets. DTs that quick would have a great shot about that, I don't think scan would be done on time.
I also think Jaehoon thought his success with the early zealots put Flash off more than it actually did.
He didn't actually have that much success with the early zealots either. He killed 2 SCVs and a marine, and spent the rest of the time running around in a circle and slowly getting whittled down.
On January 31 2011 21:37 Malinor wrote: Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
If you have been watching recent games, turrets at the front have not come that early in a lot of recent 1rax CC games. + Show Spoiler [OSL] +
See for example Fantasy's Stork-crushing builds that relied on a wraith or goliaths to deal with reavers instead of turrets. DTs that quick would have a great shot about that, I don't think scan would be done on time.
I also think Jaehoon thought his success with the early zealots put Flash off more than it actually did.
I don't mind the DT's, it's always ok to try something like that. I just hated the transition out of it. Flash has like 101 different timing pushes against toss. Jaehoon's followup was just no units and don't use the tech I have already. It was just a total gamble, if flash makes any units and doesn't tech/expand, he wins.
But yeah, a player like Jaehoon could only beat Flash by gambling anyways, so I shouldn't be surprised. I just think if MBC sends him out on the 7th map they may have something better to offer than this.
Jaehoon's 2-base arbiter is standard and very vulnerable to deep sixes. Best lost a game to it very convincingly the first time it happened to him (and crushed it the next time).
On January 31 2011 21:58 Caos2 wrote: Flash is recovering his form. I don't believe there's anyone who can take him out in a Bo5 other than Fantasy.
I think Stork would actually have a good shot, as long as it isn't a Starleague finals.
I don't think it matter if it's in a final or not, Stork has now shown plenty of times that he has a horrible mindset regarding Bo5s in general whereas that is one of Flash's strong points.
I guess the arguments about Flash being a boring player probably stem from the fact that whenever he doesn't turtle, the opponent usually dies immediately after the first attack, leaving no chance for resistance/retribution.
On January 31 2011 22:06 mnesthes wrote: I guess the arguments about Flash being a boring player probably stem from the fact that whenever he doesn't turtle, the opponent usually dies immediately after the first attack, leaving no chance for resistance/retribution.
On January 31 2011 21:37 Malinor wrote: Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
Doesn't an Arbiter Tribunal require having Templar Archives?
On January 31 2011 22:07 radialis wrote: i don't understand why everyone hates flash... i thought that was a pretty good show from him
There are always people who hate those at the top. In Flash's case, a lot of it comes from his reputation first as a cheeser, and then as a turtler. He's been mixing it up quite a bit though, so those reasons are pretty much invalid these days.
On January 31 2011 21:37 Malinor wrote: Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
Doesn't an Arbiter Tribunal require having Templar Archives?
On January 31 2011 21:37 Malinor wrote: Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
Doesn't an Arbiter Tribunal require having Templar Archives?
It does. My point was that it should have been used for storms before arbiter or the citadel for building a bulk of speed-zealots.
And before someone explains to me how 2base arbiters work, I realldy don't need to. I am still completely underwhelmed how you go 2base arbiters without observers, no speed zlots, no scouting information, no templars and already building your 3rd and 4th nexus somewhere on the map while you have like 8-10 goons and 2 DTs. And all of this on Fortress in close positions.
Just watched the VOD with Jaehoon vs Flash. After the GG Jaehoon pop out of box and was very angry at someone from his team. Probably the one that suggested his strategy...
Hah, yeah, checked the ELO scores....Flash is currently sitting exactly 1 point behind JD's vP peak. He just has to win his next game against protoss and he'll truly have all peak records.
I cant see the match live since I have class today and when I opened this thread to see the result, KT wins again :D by Action and 3 kills from Flash. Congratz :D
On January 31 2011 21:37 Malinor wrote: Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
Doesn't an Arbiter Tribunal require having Templar Archives?
It does. My point was that it should have been used for storms before arbiter or the citadel for building a bulk of speed-zealots.
And before someone explains to me how 2base arbiters work, I realldy don't need to. I am still completely underwhelmed how you go 2base arbiters without observers, no speed zlots, no scouting information, no templars and already building your 3rd and 4th nexus somewhere on the map while you have like 8-10 goons and 2 DTs. And all of this on Fortress in close positions.
Getting storm before Arbiters would have left him unable to expand for a huge time, and even if storm was out, he couldn't cover more than his main/nat, and end up being contained. Flash would then be on three bases, and a Terran with more bases than Protoss would be devastating. Once Arbiters are out, expansions are safe from tank based armies, and if the Terran attacks then stasis and recall punish that harshly. So instead of conceding a late-game advantage to Flash, he made a gamble that Flash wouldn't strike before he could get map control, or would opt for harassment.
tl;dr: Jaehoon gambled on DTs, lost, and was forced to gamble again in order to not give Flash a superior economy. Flash knew he would do that and curbstomped him.
Its just ridiculous, with all PR and other stuff, well Flash is god of sc, Im saying it as a deep JD fan, no storkes bisus or anything can match him, he is just ultimate weapon, damn!
On February 01 2011 00:14 letian wrote: Its just ridiculous, with all PR and other stuff, well Flash is god of sc, Im saying it as a deep JD fan, no storkes bisus or anything can match him, he is just ultimate weapon, damn!
I remember when I felt the same way about JD. May that time happen yet again!!
On January 31 2011 21:37 Malinor wrote: Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
I don't think you know wat ur talking about. 2 Base arbiter is a ridiculously strong build against almost all terran builds.
On January 31 2011 21:37 Malinor wrote: Build templar archives for 2 DTs, they accomplish nothing... yeah I'll just build a stargate and an arbiter and don't use the buildings I have just constructed. Citadell wasted, DTs wasted, Templar archives wasted. And of course I go douple expand when I don't have any scout on the terran.
This is so fucking bad, So unbelievable bad play. You don't need a deep six to break that, any normal attack would do.
Just in case, I am not a Flahs hater, I just can't believe what Jaehoon just played.
I don't think you know wat ur talking about. 2 Base arbiter is a ridiculously strong build against almost all terran builds.
This is not about 2base arbiter, it is about that game and the decisions Jaehoon made based on what happend in that game. Like someone on this page said, he basically took several gambles in a row.
When Flash moved out with his deep six, the tanks alone would have nearly been enough to kill Jaehoon. Basically any attack at this time or within the next 3 minutes would have killed Jaehoon no matter which build Flash would choose.
Jaehoons decision-making was awful, that's all I am saying (and it is actually no surprise to say something like this about Jaehoon, even when he has a nice streak going) . But really, I am not discussing 2 base arbiters here.
On January 31 2011 23:12 zenMaster wrote: KTFlash strikes again!
Isn't that argument invalid in the Winner's League?
hey, flash has lost once already in winners league!
i think kt maybe would have lost this without flash;-) so sad to see that hoejja still is next in line when violet aint there. i think suny or barracks would have done better...
On February 01 2011 01:54 Heimatloser wrote: so sad to see that hoejja still is next in line when violet aint there. i think suny or barracks would have done better...
Exactly what I was about to say. Hoejja imo is a lost cause and they should really consider playing other plays like Tempest, Suny, Barracks, etc. Even playing Reach/Yellow would be awesome.
It sucks to see though that apart from Flash/Stats/Violet and uncommonly Action, KT doesn't really have many rookies/other players who can win on a somewhat common basis. Suny, Anyppi, Hoejja, Tempest, and Barracks are all on 4-5+ game losing streaks. ;___;
On February 01 2011 01:54 Heimatloser wrote: so sad to see that hoejja still is next in line when violet aint there. i think suny or barracks would have done better...
Exactly what I was about to say. Hoejja imo is a lost cause and they should really consider playing other plays like Tempest, Suny, Barracks, etc. Even playing Reach/Yellow would be awesome.
It sucks to see though that apart from Flash/Stats/Violet and uncommonly Action, KT doesn't really have many rookies/other players who can win on a somewhat common basis. Suny, Anyppi, Hoejja, Tempest, and Barracks are all on 4-5+ game losing streaks. ;___;
Why at a time like this are KT fans putting down their players? in about 1 month we've lost ForGG and Violet, KT's lineup is suffering. In addition, Flash is still not 100% because of his wrist. The team is doing its best meanwhile (and is still undefeated). The coaching staff knows what they are doing, and if they are sending HoeJJa its either cause he is showing promising results in practice, has earned another shot in a televised match with weeks of hard work, or perhaps the others aren't doing so well. Trust in the coaches instead of putting down the players :3
Flash is to good to lose in TvT and TvP . It looks like it will take a top zerg playing perfect to beat him . Well there aren't many top zergs that play perfect ZvT probably only Zero JD and maybe Hydra .
On February 01 2011 01:54 Heimatloser wrote: so sad to see that hoejja still is next in line when violet aint there. i think suny or barracks would have done better...
Exactly what I was about to say. Hoejja imo is a lost cause and they should really consider playing other plays like Tempest, Suny, Barracks, etc. Even playing Reach/Yellow would be awesome.
It sucks to see though that apart from Flash/Stats/Violet and uncommonly Action, KT doesn't really have many rookies/other players who can win on a somewhat common basis. Suny, Anyppi, Hoejja, Tempest, and Barracks are all on 4-5+ game losing streaks. ;___;
they STILL could send out barracks, suny and anyppi in the first 3 slots since we all know that the clean-up-king will... clean up anyways.
On February 01 2011 02:06 raga4ka wrote: Flash is to good to lose in TvT and TvP . It looks like it will take a top zerg playing perfect to beat him . Well there aren't many top zergs that play perfect ZvT probably only Zero JD and maybe Hydra .
It's really too bad Effort retired. I would've loved to see another Bo5 between him and Flash.
Damn Flash, stop breaking/setting damn crazy records. Can't imagine someone could keep up with his stats! Look at his player profile, it is just ridiculous
Went to bed right after Flash bested Sea. Woke up happy to see him pull KT through another victory. However, Action's play in game 3 still disturbs me. I'm quite disappointed on how sloppy he was, especially considering he had a decent lead during most of the game.
On January 31 2011 22:51 Moridin wrote: Just watched the VOD with Jaehoon vs Flash. After the GG Jaehoon pop out of box and was very angry at someone from his team. Probably the one that suggested his strategy...
Ya, I just rewatched it and he seemed really pissed off. O_o
On January 31 2011 22:51 Moridin wrote: Just watched the VOD with Jaehoon vs Flash. After the GG Jaehoon pop out of box and was very angry at someone from his team. Probably the one that suggested his strategy...
Ya, I just rewatched it and he seemed really pissed off. O_o
Yes, I saw it too. Looked like he was pointing in Pusan's direction. Probably because of the strategy, like Moridin said.
On February 01 2011 04:30 okum wrote: He said, "why did you send ME out?"
Or "why did you make me captain"? I think that was mistake, just like making Zero Woongjin captain was a mistake. These players don't cope well with too much pressure. But then again the coaches should know Jaehoon well. I hope so anyway.
i just saw Sea vs Action...and wow TvZ is so much more imba than any other non-mirror matchup
i was actually rooting for Sea, and he won a game where he shouldn't have won. Sea was really behind early game, and then he transitioned to Mech, and Mech won him the game. Mines raped everything, mass Tanks owned whatever leftover. All Sea did was turtle+defend while Action lay out amazing plagues, drops, swarms, flanks.
In the past, TvZ was not really imba because 4 gas Zerg with Ultras + Defilers eat bio, and T has hard time dealing with it. But now that they've adapted to it by going late game mech, there is literally nothing Zergs can do. Even the korean commentator was like "Terran imba!" lol. Not to take anything from Sea though, he defended beautifully
did you not see the constant barrage of ovie drops on tanks, the corresponding swarms that followed it? or when Sea's entire control group of vults got plagued? Action excels at defiler usage, we knew this before he even switched to KT
I've just finished watching the vods ( Thanks to Moktira <3 ) and i have to say that Game 3 was hands down the most painfull game i have ever seen. Thank god Flash was there to clean up the mess because Stats is on a losing streak and since fOrGG and Violet are unavaible, there's not a lot of players to send out.
On February 01 2011 06:43 lastmotion wrote: did you not see the constant barrage of ovie drops on tanks, the corresponding swarms that followed it? or when Sea's entire control group of vults got plagued? Action excels at defiler usage, we knew this before he even switched to KT
I really don't understand why action didn't go for a muta switch. I understand he was behind on upgrades but he could have muta bombed the cc at 3 o clock and used a queen to infest it or just waited until sea's mech army was tank heavy and light on goliaths to break his line.
On January 31 2011 21:40 nozaro33 wrote: Flash's plan was beautiful He notices that Jaehoon is going for fast DTs -> Fast Arb, meaning a delayed robo, so no way Jaehoon would've scouted the marines in time, absolutely no chance for hoon to stop it even if he didn't get the 3rd base
Agreed. Also Flash was probably counting on Jaehoon anticipating dropship play after Flash vs Best at those exact positions. I just watched the VOD and Jaehoon had at least 5 goons in his main mineral line. When Flash pushed out, Jaehoon didn't have enough goons to slow him down.
On February 01 2011 01:54 Heimatloser wrote: so sad to see that hoejja still is next in line when violet aint there. i think suny or barracks would have done better...
Exactly what I was about to say. Hoejja imo is a lost cause and they should really consider playing other plays like Tempest, Suny, Barracks, etc. Even playing Reach/Yellow would be awesome.
It sucks to see though that apart from Flash/Stats/Violet and uncommonly Action, KT doesn't really have many rookies/other players who can win on a somewhat common basis. Suny, Anyppi, Hoejja, Tempest, and Barracks are all on 4-5+ game losing streaks. ;___;
Why at a time like this are KT fans putting down their players? in about 1 month we've lost ForGG and Violet, KT's lineup is suffering. In addition, Flash is still not 100% because of his wrist. The team is doing its best meanwhile (and is still undefeated). The coaching staff knows what they are doing, and if they are sending HoeJJa its either cause he is showing promising results in practice, has earned another shot in a televised match with weeks of hard work, or perhaps the others aren't doing so well. Trust in the coaches instead of putting down the players :3
lol you flash fans are seriously annoying.. stop making excuses for Flash's slump. you guys are just too ignorant to admit that the Monster Terran is never gonna come back...
On February 01 2011 01:54 Heimatloser wrote: so sad to see that hoejja still is next in line when violet aint there. i think suny or barracks would have done better...
Exactly what I was about to say. Hoejja imo is a lost cause and they should really consider playing other plays like Tempest, Suny, Barracks, etc. Even playing Reach/Yellow would be awesome.
It sucks to see though that apart from Flash/Stats/Violet and uncommonly Action, KT doesn't really have many rookies/other players who can win on a somewhat common basis. Suny, Anyppi, Hoejja, Tempest, and Barracks are all on 4-5+ game losing streaks. ;___;
Why at a time like this are KT fans putting down their players? in about 1 month we've lost ForGG and Violet, KT's lineup is suffering. In addition, Flash is still not 100% because of his wrist. The team is doing its best meanwhile (and is still undefeated). The coaching staff knows what they are doing, and if they are sending HoeJJa its either cause he is showing promising results in practice, has earned another shot in a televised match with weeks of hard work, or perhaps the others aren't doing so well. Trust in the coaches instead of putting down the players :3
lol you flash fans are seriously annoying.. stop making excuses for Flash's slump. you guys are just too ignorant to admit that the Monster Terran is never gonna come back...
This is the most awful, transparent troll I've ever seen and I hope you get a temp ban for it.
On February 01 2011 01:54 Heimatloser wrote: so sad to see that hoejja still is next in line when violet aint there. i think suny or barracks would have done better...
Exactly what I was about to say. Hoejja imo is a lost cause and they should really consider playing other plays like Tempest, Suny, Barracks, etc. Even playing Reach/Yellow would be awesome.
It sucks to see though that apart from Flash/Stats/Violet and uncommonly Action, KT doesn't really have many rookies/other players who can win on a somewhat common basis. Suny, Anyppi, Hoejja, Tempest, and Barracks are all on 4-5+ game losing streaks. ;___;
Why at a time like this are KT fans putting down their players? in about 1 month we've lost ForGG and Violet, KT's lineup is suffering. In addition, Flash is still not 100% because of his wrist. The team is doing its best meanwhile (and is still undefeated). The coaching staff knows what they are doing, and if they are sending HoeJJa its either cause he is showing promising results in practice, has earned another shot in a televised match with weeks of hard work, or perhaps the others aren't doing so well. Trust in the coaches instead of putting down the players :3
lol you flash fans are seriously annoying.. stop making excuses for Flash's slump. you guys are just too ignorant to admit that the Monster Terran is never gonna come back...
Yeah, 12-1 in January is a pretty major slump. Idiot.
On February 01 2011 01:54 Heimatloser wrote: so sad to see that hoejja still is next in line when violet aint there. i think suny or barracks would have done better...
Exactly what I was about to say. Hoejja imo is a lost cause and they should really consider playing other plays like Tempest, Suny, Barracks, etc. Even playing Reach/Yellow would be awesome.
It sucks to see though that apart from Flash/Stats/Violet and uncommonly Action, KT doesn't really have many rookies/other players who can win on a somewhat common basis. Suny, Anyppi, Hoejja, Tempest, and Barracks are all on 4-5+ game losing streaks. ;___;
Why at a time like this are KT fans putting down their players? in about 1 month we've lost ForGG and Violet, KT's lineup is suffering. In addition, Flash is still not 100% because of his wrist. The team is doing its best meanwhile (and is still undefeated). The coaching staff knows what they are doing, and if they are sending HoeJJa its either cause he is showing promising results in practice, has earned another shot in a televised match with weeks of hard work, or perhaps the others aren't doing so well. Trust in the coaches instead of putting down the players :3
lol you flash fans are seriously annoying.. stop making excuses for Flash's slump. you guys are just too ignorant to admit that the Monster Terran is never gonna come back...
well he is right about flash being in one of the greatest slumps of his carreer! 72% winrate cant conceal of that! we are used to see better of him!
On February 01 2011 06:43 lastmotion wrote: did you not see the constant barrage of ovie drops on tanks, the corresponding swarms that followed it? or when Sea's entire control group of vults got plagued? Action excels at defiler usage, we knew this before he even switched to KT
I also saw long lines of hydras and lings marching into well fortified position and lurker minesweeps that would make Kwanro's ultralisks jealous. His drops were successful, he needed to do more of those instead of throwing his units away.
Flash vs Jaehoon and Light was not unlike watching WCG world finals with Koreans playing foreigners, what a stomping :o Reminds me of his game vs Best. Every once in a while he crushes someone like a walnut with a sledgehammer, it's just bewildering.
On February 01 2011 06:32 lastmotion wrote: i just saw Sea vs Action...and wow TvZ is so much more imba than any other non-mirror matchup
i was actually rooting for Sea, and he won a game where he shouldn't have won. Sea was really behind early game, and then he transitioned to Mech, and Mech won him the game. Mines raped everything, mass Tanks owned whatever leftover. All Sea did was turtle+defend while Action lay out amazing plagues, drops, swarms, flanks.
In the past, TvZ was not really imba because 4 gas Zerg with Ultras + Defilers eat bio, and T has hard time dealing with it. But now that they've adapted to it by going late game mech, there is literally nothing Zergs can do. Even the korean commentator was like "Terran imba!" lol. Not to take anything from Sea though, he defended beautifully
On February 01 2011 06:32 lastmotion wrote: i just saw Sea vs Action...and wow TvZ is so much more imba than any other non-mirror matchup
i was actually rooting for Sea, and he won a game where he shouldn't have won. Sea was really behind early game, and then he transitioned to Mech, and Mech won him the game. Mines raped everything, mass Tanks owned whatever leftover. All Sea did was turtle+defend while Action lay out amazing plagues, drops, swarms, flanks.
In the past, TvZ was not really imba because 4 gas Zerg with Ultras + Defilers eat bio, and T has hard time dealing with it. But now that they've adapted to it by going late game mech, there is literally nothing Zergs can do. Even the korean commentator was like "Terran imba!" lol. Not to take anything from Sea though, he defended beautifully
TvZ may be imba, and I think it is, but this game is a bad example. Action just played a horrible game after he got the advantage....like....embarrassingly bad. There would be something wrong if he didn't lose. Also, Terrans have to deal with TvP so they need a matchup thats slightly tilted to their favor X-x
On February 01 2011 06:32 lastmotion wrote: i just saw Sea vs Action...and wow TvZ is so much more imba than any other non-mirror matchup
i was actually rooting for Sea, and he won a game where he shouldn't have won. Sea was really behind early game, and then he transitioned to Mech, and Mech won him the game. Mines raped everything, mass Tanks owned whatever leftover. All Sea did was turtle+defend while Action lay out amazing plagues, drops, swarms, flanks.
In the past, TvZ was not really imba because 4 gas Zerg with Ultras + Defilers eat bio, and T has hard time dealing with it. But now that they've adapted to it by going late game mech, there is literally nothing Zergs can do. Even the korean commentator was like "Terran imba!" lol. Not to take anything from Sea though, he defended beautifully
TvZ may be imba, and I think it is, but this game is a bad example. Action just played a horrible game after he got the advantage....like....embarrassingly bad. There would be something wrong if he didn't lose. Also, Terrans have to deal with TvP so they need a matchup thats slightly tilted to their favor X-x
felt like this is the truth somewhat (personally I've always felt ZvP and PvT is way worse) but you're using the wrong game man. Sea's nice defense and tons of units and ultras being thrown away along with defilers not even swarming and dying, that's not evidence of imba tvz. Action tried to cruise on multiple base attacks with splitting his units, it only turned out that most of his units melted
On February 01 2011 01:54 Heimatloser wrote: so sad to see that hoejja still is next in line when violet aint there. i think suny or barracks would have done better...
Exactly what I was about to say. Hoejja imo is a lost cause and they should really consider playing other plays like Tempest, Suny, Barracks, etc. Even playing Reach/Yellow would be awesome.
It sucks to see though that apart from Flash/Stats/Violet and uncommonly Action, KT doesn't really have many rookies/other players who can win on a somewhat common basis. Suny, Anyppi, Hoejja, Tempest, and Barracks are all on 4-5+ game losing streaks. ;___;
Why at a time like this are KT fans putting down their players? in about 1 month we've lost ForGG and Violet, KT's lineup is suffering. In addition, Flash is still not 100% because of his wrist. The team is doing its best meanwhile (and is still undefeated). The coaching staff knows what they are doing, and if they are sending HoeJJa its either cause he is showing promising results in practice, has earned another shot in a televised match with weeks of hard work, or perhaps the others aren't doing so well. Trust in the coaches instead of putting down the players :3
lol you flash fans are seriously annoying.. stop making excuses for Flash's slump. you guys are just too ignorant to admit that the Monster Terran is never gonna come back...
User was temp banned for this post.
you know thats OOV's nickname right? Fyi he isnt coming back (unless he moves to sc2, but atm he is too busy making fantasy imba)