Game 1: Awesome game, highly recommended Game 2: Clutch play by the winner, not really worth watching Game 3: A really bad but also incredibly fun game to watch. If you are into fails and weird strategies check it out
Hoping for a rise of Bisu again. I only started watching when his slump began and would really like to see him do well even though he's one of my least favorite players. Also I love Stork so would also love for him to do well again.
I hate losing to Khan. Maybe cuz during the Protoss era Khan was considered equal in P strenght as T1... but I hate losing to Khan. Simply put, we won't lose... cuz I hate it. DUH.
Set 1: Fantasy Fighting Spirit Jangbi Set 2: Best Grand Line SE Stork Set 3: Canata Fortress Juni Set 4: Hyuk Judgment Day Great Set 5: Fantasy Match Point Stork
SKT FIGHTING!!! And yes, Bisu and Stork will have their Day once more. Oh yeah, and BoxeR won't go out, sadly. I want him to, but He Just won't because of his declining skill. Maybe its time for him to join him to the coaching staff. Hopefully not though.
This should be a good match. I'm rooting for Stork and Jangbi to win their games tonight...and if FBH manages to make an appearance AND win, I'll be ecstatic.
Hopefully, Bisu will also be able to at least show some good play. With Terran and Zerg players sitting pretty on the top of the scene these days, he and Stork need to both step up their games if we're ever going to see a Protoss resurgence.
Seriously, if they play Bisu vs Stork, I would be heartbroken.....Stork is my all time favorite player but I REALLY want to see Bisu's exciting play despite hating on his fanboys when he was dominating.
On May 31 2010 16:38 Vanka wrote: If Bisu gets sent out, I think the worst thing will happen. He'll win a game by playing so overwhelmingly mediocre no one will believe he's back.
would still be a big fuck u to all the nonbelievers who put him on their anti. and atm he can need every win he can get. imho its more a confidence issue than a skill issue thats holding him back.
On May 31 2010 16:38 Vanka wrote: If Bisu gets sent out, I think the worst thing will happen. He'll win a game by playing so overwhelmingly mediocre no one will believe he's back.
Yeah, but he'll earn me fpl points so i will forgive him :D
sair goes out and checks out see's bases first lurker morphing, stork moving out with 4 templar and a handful of templar - 2 storms on the one lurker egg
I don't get why zergs are so intent on morphing their lurkers in such risky locations
just make them in your base when there's no reason not to and you won't ever get punished for it; seems simple - maybe it's cause they're playing so fast?
yeah, I always see morphing lurkers in paths between mains as a unnecessary risk...but this time I think losing one lurker to two storms was okay - the storms could have done even more damage if they were held back for the attack IMO another 2 gates going down for stork, to 8
hatchery dies before soo's lings arrive to finish off the zealots - a few storms expended at stork's bridge to hold off lings and hit the lurker quasi-contain finally soo bringing some scourge to hit obs
2 scourge hit the same obs leaving one alive and it costs soo
stork has enough observers at this point but he still has an army that can contest stork's army but he's still on 3base while stork has taken top left and he has very little prospects of taking out stork's 3rd
dt moving to harass soo's 4th, gonna get all 4 drones there
stork prepping to expand to 2.5? lings put an end to it
a plague landed on quite a few zealots don't think it matters at this point though both players with their mouths open... soo with 2 carapace now 3, with 2 melee and 0 ranged
finally soo finds the base at 10.5 - cannons are able to hold off the attack
another defiler arrives at 10.5 with lings to attack dts snipe one defiler - but another remains things get stormed but the defiler is picked up by the overlord now swarm with lings attack - but a storm kills tons of lings - an archon finishes off one defiler...
stork with an unimaginable economic advantage plague landed on some of stork's forces as he moves out
more lings attack 10.5 - stork storms his own probes...
stork pushed back all the way back to his bridge in exchange for killing a TON of lings shuttle heads out towards southwest but it's spotted by lings and scourged
swarm and lurkers attack 3 - stork could lose his key mining base? storms close that out for now...
soo attacking 2.5 again - lands a nice plague but backs off sets up a minicontain southwest of the 2.5 ramp but dts raping drones at 7.5 - 7 kills so far 12 kills as it dies... soo made it easy for him by attacking the dt with drones instead of running
stork recalls soo's nat at 4 just before the arb is scourged with zealot/templar attack doesn't do much damage - and there were no minerals there anyways
stork dt just whacking stuff. monster plague by soo. stork looks in trouble.
soo tries to kill dt with drones??? fails miserably until arrival of lings.
stork recalls (barely!!) into nat with many zealot/few templar; does some damage. a few zealots get into main [some try to cutely hide in the corner] but don't do anything but draw lings back.
stork pushes. plague hurts.
stork's 3rd and 4th are currently secure. he might be roping stuff off to retake his old 4th, new 5th.
.... wat, dt fails to snipe defiler
many ovies? probes at a new expo but canceled due to lings.
Fighting Spirit is a weird map. I feel like it really favours protoss mid-game because of that easy third, but splitting the map is so hard--against hive tech zerg, suddenly all your mining can just vanish.
would investing into reavers have helped stork out?
Yea, if he had a reaver or two along with the HTs at the expos w/cannons up like top left, they would've been secure vs infinite amount of lings. No idea why Stork didn't make any.
would investing into reavers have helped stork out?
I think he did the same amount of damage with these storms, he just let himself contained for too long, and couldnt match the macro of zerg that was built up during the contain, even though he was super cost-effective.
That was a really good game, didn't know that soo could play like this.
But I am a bit confused how Stork lost, mining out 4 1/2 bases against 5 bases zerg, but he couldn't make a move for the last 15 minutes. Cracklings are not that expensive I guess.
Not a very good game from a spectator's standpoint because not much strategy was involved and all Soo did was make units and exchanged armies. Nice lurker fields and scourging observers I guess, but he threw away a lot of units throughout the game. Know which lings aren't under swarm!!
Stork... sigh... arbiter? really? you cocky little... Good game for Soo though.
stork couldn't do any significant damage to soo despite being secure economically, and as others have already mentioned - protoss almost always depletes their minerals more quickly - so protoss can't simply be content with trading armies, which is what happened throughout this game until soo was able to seize the momentum by starting to shut down stork's bases.
On May 31 2010 18:43 sAAvior wrote: I wonder if we will have another protoss able to winning games against semi decent opposition before the end of pro bw
Against terran sure, but I don't see the metagame of PvZ changing any time soon which pretty much means every protoss will die the minute they meet a semi decent zerg.
On May 31 2010 18:43 TheMute wrote: Not a very good game from a spectator's standpoint because not much strategy was involved and all Soo did was make units and exchanged armies. Nice lurker fields and scourging observers I guess, but he threw away a lot of units throughout the game. Know which lings aren't under swarm!!
Stork... sigh... arbiter? really? you cocky little... Good game for Soo though.
That arbiter wasnt cocky, it was desperate. Though, I'm sure Stork has some skill with it in PvZ, and it can be part of some valid strategy in his hands.
On May 31 2010 18:43 TheMute wrote: Not a very good game from a spectator's standpoint because not much strategy was involved and all Soo did was make units and exchanged armies. Nice lurker fields and scourging observers I guess, but he threw away a lot of units throughout the game. Know which lings aren't under swarm!!
Stork... sigh... arbiter? really? you cocky little... Good game for Soo though.
lol what are you talking about, this game was very entertaining. Note Soo's decision to not take his fourth and fifth gas. At first I thought it was a terrible mistake, but eventually I realized that it was part of Soo's strategy to only focus on lings/defiler, since he judged (correctly I'd say) that more gas intensive units like Ultras and mass Lurker/Hydra would've been much less cost effective and potentially lose him the game.
On May 31 2010 18:43 sAAvior wrote: I wonder if we will have another protoss capable of actually winning games against semi decent opposition before the end of pro bw
Well.... hey! That Snow guy is pretty good! And... Well, look at the time, I had better end this post.
On May 31 2010 18:43 sAAvior wrote: I wonder if we will have another protoss capable of actually winning games against semi decent opposition before the end of pro bw
Well.... hey! That Snow guy is pretty good! And... Well, look at the time, I had better end this post.
That Snow guy won't get around the imbalances in PvZ, no matter how good he is.
oh yeah, stork's recall was horrible and wasted a lot of units
plus perhaps it's not as exciting to watch but soo showed his skill by keeping stork's army from growing too large and cutting it down whenever it moved out. it's not just something any zerg would have automatically pulled off
soo's nice plagues also really softened up stork's army
On May 31 2010 18:45 Malinor wrote: Some of you have ridiculously high standards for a good game.
what? 4 gas p, i think i can expect some rvr at an expo for defending purposes its not that hard to tech and build and it would have been of great help against lurkers too
but ofc why should i build them when i can get arbitersssssssssss
I'd have to say that I really dislike the 2 gate speedlot build, which is usually deflected easily by competent zergs and gives not much of a good reward for the Protoss if he doesn't do some damage, other than very temporary map control.
On May 31 2010 18:43 sAAvior wrote: I wonder if we will have another protoss capable of actually winning games against semi decent opposition before the end of pro bw
Well.... hey! That Snow guy is pretty good! And... Well, look at the time, I had better end this post.
That Snow guy won't get around the imbalances in PvZ, no matter how good he is.
Stork is way past his prime. He lost. No reason to pull the "race imba" card.
On May 31 2010 18:43 sAAvior wrote: I wonder if we will have another protoss capable of actually winning games against semi decent opposition before the end of pro bw
Well.... hey! That Snow guy is pretty good! And... Well, look at the time, I had better end this post.
That Snow guy won't get around the imbalances in PvZ, no matter how good he is.
Stork is way past his prime. He lost. No reason to pull the "race imba" card.
On May 31 2010 18:43 sAAvior wrote: I wonder if we will have another protoss capable of actually winning games against semi decent opposition before the end of pro bw
Well.... hey! That Snow guy is pretty good! And... Well, look at the time, I had better end this post.
That Snow guy won't get around the imbalances in PvZ, no matter how good he is.
Stork is way past his prime. He lost. No reason to pull the "race imba" card.
This has nothing to do with Stork. If you can't see how the PvZ metagame is stupidly imbalanced right now...
On May 31 2010 18:43 sAAvior wrote: I wonder if we will have another protoss capable of actually winning games against semi decent opposition before the end of pro bw
Well.... hey! That Snow guy is pretty good! And... Well, look at the time, I had better end this post.
That Snow guy won't get around the imbalances in PvZ, no matter how good he is.
Stork is way past his prime. He lost. No reason to pull the "race imba" card.
On May 31 2010 18:50 Plexa wrote: mmm that game was all Stork not being able to hold his expos. It's not easy, but the current protoss metagame just isn't cutting it lategame
what happened to Nal_ra style 8+ reavers crawling across the map blowing shit up
I can remember that game on Sin Peaks of Baekdu. Incredible...
On May 31 2010 19:03 Chen wrote: remember the days when we said that if T1 could get a half-decent zerg lineup they would be unstoppable? well if only....
Well we did have the unspoken assumption that the rest of the team wouldn't suddenly fall apart like wet toilet paper...
On May 31 2010 19:03 Chen wrote: remember the days when we said that if T1 could get a half-decent zerg lineup they would be unstoppable? well if only....
Well we did have the unspoken assumption that the rest of the team wouldn't suddenly fall apart like wet toilet paper...
thanks for the text coverage; can't see the match at work
interesting lineup: protoss against zerg
btw. this new system, where the players are announced directly before the match: are they fix and only announced, or can they send out, who they want after each match?
On May 31 2010 19:23 Geisterkarle wrote: thanks for the text coverage; can't see the match at work
interesting lineup: protoss against zerg
btw. this new system, where the players are announced directly before the match: are they fix and only announced, or can they send out, who they want after each match?
wtf? skt sends 3 zergs, khan sends 3 toss - and khans toss lineup gets utterly destroyed by skts zerg lineup. who would have ever thought something like this could happen?
terrible terrible damage.... very embarrassing for khan.
glad we won though. means we´re one step closer to the playoffs and khan probably is out of the race.
This is hilarious. An SKT vs Khan match is an occasion for Protoss to gather and watch four out of the six Dragons, and instead they get to watch ZvP beatdowns.
As I was watching game 3 I thought to myself "What have I done to deserve this, having to sit here and watch this idiot struggle to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory." KHAN fans are the most loyal and resilient fans in the world.
On May 31 2010 19:37 snowdrift86 wrote: This is hilarious. An SKT vs Khan match is an occasion for Protoss to gather and watch four out of the six Dragons, and instead they get to watch ZvP beatdowns.
The four Khan/T1 dragons aren't the leading lights of Protoss anymore... Kal, Shuttle, maybe.
On May 31 2010 19:37 snowdrift86 wrote: This is hilarious. An SKT vs Khan match is an occasion for Protoss to gather and watch four out of the six Dragons, and instead they get to watch ZvP beatdowns.
Wow... what did I miss? When I was watching Stork was on 5 bases (more or less) and that random zerg guy on 4. Jesus... I hope we get some new protoss maps for next season. This is just awfull how all protosses are getting bashed. It leads to terran dominance imo because t>z
On May 31 2010 19:52 Elroi wrote: Wow... what did I miss? When I was watching Stork was on 5 bases (more or less) and that random zerg guy on 4. Jesus... I hope we get some new protoss maps for next season. This is just awfull how all protosses are getting bashed. It leads to terran dominance imo because t>z
what has the map to with it
fighting spirit is pretty much 50 50 pvz its his inability to get reavers that is just frustrating and makes pvz late game indeed imba
I don't think we are giving Brave enough credit here, guys. He had to really step up to lose that game. Pull out all the stops and take it to the next level. Most players in that position would have been forced to win, I myself would have probably ended up winning. But Brave is no normal man, he was equal to this test, and he rose to the challenge and managed to lose that game against all odds. I for one salute him.
On May 31 2010 19:58 Balfazar wrote: I don't think we are giving Brave enough credit here, guys. He had to really step up to lose that game. Pull out all the stops and take it to the next level. Most players in that position would have been forced to win, I myself would have probably ended up winning. But Brave is no normal man, he was equal to this test, and he rose to the challenge and managed to lose that game against all odds. I for one salute him.
ROFL
All Brave had to do was to spam cannons at the front door. He scouted everything and s2 was one base all in.
On May 31 2010 20:06 tyCe wrote: Oh my God, why Khan't my team win?
zing! seriously, though - despite how I considered January to be a pretty amazing coach in the past...I don't think she's got it nowadays. Maybe the decline started when she got married? (Uh-oh, I think I'm opening up a can of worms here...)
On May 31 2010 20:06 tyCe wrote: Oh my God, why Khan't my team win?
zing! seriously, though - despite how I considered January to be a pretty amazing coach in the past...I don't think she's got it nowadays. Maybe the decline started when she got married? (Uh-oh, I think I'm opening up a can of worms here...)
I've noticed on TL no matter how bad coaching can be (MBC, Oz, and more), the only coach I ever hear that doesn't have "it" anymore, or who should quit, is always the only female coach, January, and then some dope brings up the fact that she got married.
No, Khan is bad because they're composed of players that peaked way back in 2007/2008 (stork, jangbi, fbh), who naturally must fall, and then a bunch of scrubs.
Oh no, I'll definitely say that MBC and Oz's coaches are horrible. The MBC coach is probably the worst of all coaches at this current point in time, by my judgement. MBC is making the strangest player picks in critical situations, and such choices can't even be explained in the name of player development, like Oz's lolchoices. MBC going to drop to 5th soon - and at their current rate of freefall, won't even make the playoffs, which is horrible given that the team was placed so highly going into round 4. They need to shape up if they're to recover and enter the post-season.
On May 31 2010 20:06 tyCe wrote: Oh my God, why Khan't my team win?
zing! seriously, though - despite how I considered January to be a pretty amazing coach in the past...I don't think she's got it nowadays. Maybe the decline started when she got married? (Uh-oh, I think I'm opening up a can of worms here...)
I've noticed on TL no matter how bad coaching can be (MBC, Oz, and more), the only coach I ever hear that doesn't have "it" anymore, or who should quit, is always the only female coach, January, and then some dope brings up the fact that she got married.
No, Khan is bad because they're composed of players that peaked way back in 2007/2008 (stork, jangbi, fbh), who naturally must fall, and then a bunch of scrubs.
a big part of it is poor choices... not bad players, so yeah i'd say it's a coaching problem. Jangbi & Stork aren't dominant anymore but can usually get a win between them (obviously not today) and then it's just a matter of great playing to his potential, and if he doesn't theres still chavi juni or FBH there to have the potential to bring it to ace at least. Instead lets play brave so he can get ahead hugely early game, then lose to 1 base mass ling with 3 mutalisks.
I don't know if I would call this more a "surprize" win or that MAYBE... just MAYBE... the SKT1 Zergs are getting better. If SKT1 has one zerg emerge, this team will be scary to repeat as Pro League champs.
Finally, SKT T1 finally 3-0'd!!! Ah~ But I don't find it surprising when their zerg doing well.
I tink since R4 they have been starting to do well.. or maybe earlier.
They get fielded more.
Ah, I've put Canata in my FPL. I forgot Soo is also 2 points ToT .
I put him because last SKT interview I think Hyuk said Canata will show result soon because he is hardworking and shouldn't worry so much. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much kkk
Q: Your first opponent in Round 5 is SKT. Are you looking forward to it? - I'm really looking forward to it. But I'm not too sure how the fans will see it, since the players they want to see play aren't as strong as before. But if I could choose, I think it'll be fun to play against Bisu, who is someone the fans want to see play.
On May 31 2010 19:58 Balfazar wrote: I don't think we are giving Brave enough credit here, guys. He had to really step up to lose that game. Pull out all the stops and take it to the next level. Most players in that position would have been forced to win, I myself would have probably ended up winning. But Brave is no normal man, he was equal to this test, and he rose to the challenge and managed to lose that game against all odds. I for one salute him.
+1
and that's coming from a Khan fan...or just a brave hater? No pun intended..
On May 31 2010 19:58 Balfazar wrote: I don't think we are giving Brave enough credit here, guys. He had to really step up to lose that game. Pull out all the stops and take it to the next level. Most players in that position would have been forced to win, I myself would have probably ended up winning. But Brave is no normal man, he was equal to this test, and he rose to the challenge and managed to lose that game against all odds. I for one salute him.
If you told me six months ago that T1's Zerg line was going to be carrying the team, I would have laughed and thrown a pie in your face. This is ridiculous lol.
On May 31 2010 19:58 Balfazar wrote: I don't think we are giving Brave enough credit here, guys. He had to really step up to lose that game. Pull out all the stops and take it to the next level. Most players in that position would have been forced to win, I myself would have probably ended up winning. But Brave is no normal man, he was equal to this test, and he rose to the challenge and managed to lose that game against all odds. I for one salute him.
Does anybody still think that Protoss is easy and imbalanced? I really hope not, because Protoss just keeps falling and falling and it's very disappointing when T1 zergs beat Khan protosses.
I'm happy SKT won and all, I just wish there would've been some people from Doh Taek Myung instead of "Here are our zergs and we're going to beat down your Protosses."
On May 31 2010 23:38 Kyo Yuy wrote: Does anybody still think that Protoss is easy and imbalanced? I really hope not, because Protoss just keeps falling and falling and it's very disappointing when T1 zergs beat Khan protosses.
I'm happy SKT won and all, I just wish there would've been some people from Doh Taek Myung instead of "Here are our zergs and we're going to beat down your Protosses."
Indeed, it's a very very dark era for Protoss
Don't worry take Flash out of the equation and PvT is still shining bright as ever.
OMG, the Khan protoss players still had enough face to go back to the practice house? They should have just commited suicide or at least retire to save some face for the team.
the problem with the protosses right now is that they dont have leader, someone dominating, because if we take out flash and jaedong out of the equation for the last 8 semifinals (OSL and MSL) protosses are doing as good as the other races, actually way better than terrans who are represented only by flash. Overall in my opinion there are 2 S-class players right now: flash and jaedong, pack of A-class players who sometimes can step up and win something like effort, but cannot perform steadily and out of those A class players I think the terrans there are the least, maybe only fantasy at the moment. In that sense protosses and zergs overall have better players, however what really lacks in the protoss team is that S class player, hence their chance of winning titles is the lowest even though they are always represented steadily in the semis
On May 31 2010 23:38 Kyo Yuy wrote: Does anybody still think that Protoss is easy and imbalanced? I really hope not, because Protoss just keeps falling and falling and it's very disappointing when T1 zergs beat Khan protosses.
I'm happy SKT won and all, I just wish there would've been some people from Doh Taek Myung instead of "Here are our zergs and we're going to beat down your Protosses."
Indeed, it's a very very dark era for Protoss
Don't worry add Snow to the equation and PvT is still shining bright as ever.
What the hell is wrong with KHAN, man. You know you have a problem when you get 3-0'ed by the SKT Zergs. You know you're in even deeper trouble if you get 3-0'ed by Woongjin Terrans. Terrible, terrible damage.
This Result is just insane i cant stop crying this is just getting worse from time to time against Wemade Fox i got my hopes up but this is the biggest downfall why?hell no....
On June 01 2010 02:44 kemoryan wrote: Now I know why Bisu is slumping so hard. He must be getting raped by his team mates in his historically best matchup.
Said exactly what I was thinking. haha. Bisu will overcome!
I went to sleep last night thinking this was a really weird dream.... man, are T1 zergs actually getting decent or do Khan tosses really suck that much
On June 01 2010 02:44 kemoryan wrote: Now I know why Bisu is slumping so hard. He must be getting raped by his team mates in his historically best matchup.
On June 01 2010 02:44 kemoryan wrote: Now I know why Bisu is slumping so hard. He must be getting raped by his team mates in his historically best matchup.
Bisu's historically best matchup is PvP.
yeh bisu's best was PvP, then PvT then PvZ he revolutionized his worth matchup
On June 01 2010 02:44 kemoryan wrote: Now I know why Bisu is slumping so hard. He must be getting raped by his team mates in his historically best matchup.
Bisu's historically best matchup is PvP.
yeh bisu's best was PvP, then PvT then PvZ he revolutionized his worth matchup
not really his best was his pvz and his worse was pvt
On June 01 2010 02:44 kemoryan wrote: Now I know why Bisu is slumping so hard. He must be getting raped by his team mates in his historically best matchup.
Bisu's historically best matchup is PvP.
yeh bisu's best was PvP, then PvT then PvZ he revolutionized his worth matchup
not really his best was his pvz and his worse was pvt
over the span of his entire career, pvp was his best, pvz his second best and pvt his worst matchup - pretty much like his stats suggest.
in the beginning he was very solid in pvp, gosu in pvz and rather vulnerable in pvt. later on his pvz became worse, his pvt was improved a bit without losing its vulnerability and his pvp became the best of the scene.
his achilles heel has always been his pvt, he has a history of dropping out of leagues against terrans. im not actually sure to which degree his recent (last 9-12 months) decline in pvz has to be attributed to the general metagame change in favor of Z > P and how much of it must be blamed to his personal failure.
On June 01 2010 13:04 InTheFade wrote: Bisu revolutionized PvT/PvP? That's not even true.
Just because he revolutionized PvZ doesn't mean that it was his best match-up. It just means he's a sexy fucking baller.
pvz easily is the weak matchup of almost any protoss, and has historically always been. it is by far notsurprising that even though pvz was only bisus 2nd best matchup, it was still by far the best pvz around and much more outstanding than his other 2 matchups, despite his pvp having better statistics. but again, its kinda normal for the top players of a respective race to be very strong in their respective mirror. its the same with jd and zvz and flash and tvt.
the stakes for revolutionizing pvz werent that thigh. any protoss making over 60% pvz over a longer period was sensational.
ofc he did revolutionize the matchup, and this feat isnt reduced in any way by the low reference performance of other protoss against zergs, but his pvz revolution doesnt show in his stats, it showed in his play.
I think Bisu's PvP stats speak more than others, it is widely regarded among Pros that PvP is the least luck related match up (ZvZ being the most luck based) and it just showed in terms of pure mechanics and skill Bisu was head and shoulders above the other Protoss, especially during a period of 6 Dragons when the other 5 Dragons were all regarded as being top tier players.