|
On May 30 2010 08:07 SturmAddict wrote:Bonjwa is a title given when you have 75% chanceyou are an incredible, hats off own everyone in your era (ie 65%+ win rate + starleague wins + tons of all-kill in proleague) for a year or two. Legend for everyone to remember. Revolutionize starcraft over and over etc etc. Introduce mechanics etc etc. and 25% of the time you are just a mediocre gonna-slump player who only knows how to sell games for $$ .
Actually that's not true.
Boxer lost a lot of to Garimto and Reach during his "era". Nada always lost to Iloveoov during his supposed "era". Iloveoov lost a ton to July during his supposed "era". Savior's zvz was quite shaky during his supposed "era". I'm sure these Bonjwas couldn't just dominate everyone in their era.
|
On May 30 2010 10:16 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:35 Roffles wrote:On May 30 2010 08:20 hypercube wrote:On May 30 2010 02:53 Roffles wrote:
You serious? I see this a week after Effort destroyed him with pretty much just zerglings. Duh, he's not perfect. He still delivered 3 out of 5 times this season, which is pretty good for a choker. Never called him a choker. Don't pull random shit outta your ass. Was just responding to another ridiculous claim of Flash bonjwa. I find it hilarious that you immediately claim flash as bonjwa ridiculous because he lost an OSL FINAL 3-2 when say savior never even qualified for an OSL until the one he won. Nobody had a problem naming him bonjwa. I don't care either way. I have considered flash a onjwa for awhile now because that's what he is..a damn favorite against anyone. The TL consensus is largely irrelevant to me because there will always be enough diehards that naysay.
Everyone has different standards for what bonjwa means. The fact is Flash is a more successful starleague player than BoxeR and is close to being on the level of sAviOr in terms of titles. He is statistically the most dominant in terms of win rate during his peak levels and has consistently beat every ELO record which he set.
If we take titles out of the picture and just look at the numbers, Flash is the G.O.A.T. There is another factor beyond numbers that exists and it simply isn't enough. Until the community is in basic agreement that he is bonjwa, he isn't. However, it seems to me that the korean scene sees him as such and I do believe he will be remembered as the fifth bonjwa after his career.
Can we all agree there is no objective basis for bonjwa? If there was, how do you put a player like BoxeR in with a player like Iloveoov?
|
i dont call flash bonjwa, i call flash bojnwa . its sounds cooler
"bahhjj naawwaaaal"
since theres no definition of what makes a bonjwa its all opinion anyway
|
One thing i wanted to know is how do you do a 3 hatch before pool build?
Is it
12 hatch
11 hatch
10 pool
9 extrator (or b4 pool)
This seems kinda extreme, sorry I'm just pondering how is this build done.
|
On May 30 2010 11:29 dk999 wrote:
One thing i wanted to know is how do you do a 3 hatch before pool build?
Is it
12 hatch
11 hatch
10 pool
9 extrator (or b4 pool)
This seems kinda extreme, sorry I'm just pondering how is this build done.
ya considering you start out with 8 mineral patches and 20 drones minimum can saturate all 8 of those minerals to provide maximum income, getting hatches before drones when you have larva waiting could cause you to lose econ
if your going a full zergling rush build remember you can get 20 drones for your main base mining minerals to fully saturate and the slower you are at getting 20 the slower your build will be final econ wise
|
On May 30 2010 10:40 roymarthyup wrote:
i think if jaedong scouted with like a early 9drone or something (9scout 10scout on bigger maps) and made overlord and pumped up to 16food or something while scouting flashes base he could counter the 14cc
if your drone goes into flashes base and scouts him building a command center, you build your second hatchery at 14-16 food INSIDE THE TERRANS BASE before the terran can complete the wall off of 14cc. after you 14-16hatch inside the terrans base you make like a 15-17pool at your base then you highly saturate your main base with like 2.5 drones per mineral patch (stop mining gas if you see 14cc) while pumping zerglings from your hatchery inside the terrans base
1 hatchery can make 2 zerglings every 10 seconds and should beat the marines and come out around the time of a 14cc barracks
does anyone else think if JD did this he could beat flash's 14cc?
There is no way an inbase hatchery would ever work versus flash.
|
On May 30 2010 11:52 LaXerCannon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 10:40 roymarthyup wrote:
i think if jaedong scouted with like a early 9drone or something (9scout 10scout on bigger maps) and made overlord and pumped up to 16food or something while scouting flashes base he could counter the 14cc
if your drone goes into flashes base and scouts him building a command center, you build your second hatchery at 14-16 food INSIDE THE TERRANS BASE before the terran can complete the wall off of 14cc. after you 14-16hatch inside the terrans base you make like a 15-17pool at your base then you highly saturate your main base with like 2.5 drones per mineral patch (stop mining gas if you see 14cc) while pumping zerglings from your hatchery inside the terrans base
1 hatchery can make 2 zerglings every 10 seconds and should beat the marines and come out around the time of a 14cc barracks
does anyone else think if JD did this he could beat flash's 14cc? There is no way an inbase hatchery would ever work versus flash.
ya im probably just fantasizing
but when you think about it, flash goes depot cc barracks
if jaedong pumped drones to 14-15 and did a 15hatch inside flash's base with his scouting drone after seeing flash drop down the 14cc, jaedong and flash would make barracks and spawning pool (150 vs 200) but the barracks probably finishes around the time spawning pool/hatchery finishes and unless flash pulls many scv's to kill the hatchery.... the hatchery makes 2 zerglings every 10 seconds. a barracks makes a marine like what every 25 seconds?
ya im just fantasizing but damn i think i can see it working against 14cc (and nothing else)
depot 100min
cc 400min
rax 150min
overlord 100min
hatchery 300min
spawning pool 200min
100min in lost drones that need to be replaced
so the zerg spends 50 more mineral but a hatchery makes a larva every 10 seconds, barracks makes marine every 20+ seconds
|
 Awww, Flash too good I guess. Go Jaedong though! Keep fighting 
|
On May 30 2010 11:58 roymarthyup wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 11:52 LaXerCannon wrote:On May 30 2010 10:40 roymarthyup wrote:
i think if jaedong scouted with like a early 9drone or something (9scout 10scout on bigger maps) and made overlord and pumped up to 16food or something while scouting flashes base he could counter the 14cc
if your drone goes into flashes base and scouts him building a command center, you build your second hatchery at 14-16 food INSIDE THE TERRANS BASE before the terran can complete the wall off of 14cc. after you 14-16hatch inside the terrans base you make like a 15-17pool at your base then you highly saturate your main base with like 2.5 drones per mineral patch (stop mining gas if you see 14cc) while pumping zerglings from your hatchery inside the terrans base
1 hatchery can make 2 zerglings every 10 seconds and should beat the marines and come out around the time of a 14cc barracks
does anyone else think if JD did this he could beat flash's 14cc? There is no way an inbase hatchery would ever work versus flash. ya im probably just fantasizing but when you think about it, flash goes depot cc barracks if jaedong pumped drones to 14-15 and did a 15hatch inside flash's base with his scouting drone after seeing flash drop down the 14cc, jaedong and flash would make barracks and spawning pool (150 vs 200) but the barracks probably finishes around the time spawning pool/hatchery finishes and unless flash pulls many scv's to kill the hatchery.... the hatchery makes 2 zerglings every 10 seconds. a barracks makes a marine like what every 25 seconds? ya im just fantasizing but damn i think i can see it working against 14cc (and nothing else)
What about making the hatch in the terran wall? If it fitted there, and you cancel it after, you lost 75 to prevent T from walling-in.
But of course you'll have 300 minerals you can't use for X time...
I think JD could've won if he played decently. For example, in the last match, he could have skipped some hydras in exchange of getting overlord speed + ventral sacks, and the doom drop Flash's main (like effort tried).
|
On May 30 2010 11:29 dk999 wrote:
One thing i wanted to know is how do you do a 3 hatch before pool build?
Is it
12 hatch
11 hatch
10 pool
9 extrator (or b4 pool)
This seems kinda extreme, sorry I'm just pondering how is this build done.
Whoaaaa whoa whoa whoa.
12hatch 13/14 hatch -> immediate pool then immediate gas.
|
On May 30 2010 12:06 shalafi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 11:58 roymarthyup wrote:On May 30 2010 11:52 LaXerCannon wrote:On May 30 2010 10:40 roymarthyup wrote:
i think if jaedong scouted with like a early 9drone or something (9scout 10scout on bigger maps) and made overlord and pumped up to 16food or something while scouting flashes base he could counter the 14cc
if your drone goes into flashes base and scouts him building a command center, you build your second hatchery at 14-16 food INSIDE THE TERRANS BASE before the terran can complete the wall off of 14cc. after you 14-16hatch inside the terrans base you make like a 15-17pool at your base then you highly saturate your main base with like 2.5 drones per mineral patch (stop mining gas if you see 14cc) while pumping zerglings from your hatchery inside the terrans base
1 hatchery can make 2 zerglings every 10 seconds and should beat the marines and come out around the time of a 14cc barracks
does anyone else think if JD did this he could beat flash's 14cc? There is no way an inbase hatchery would ever work versus flash. ya im probably just fantasizing but when you think about it, flash goes depot cc barracks if jaedong pumped drones to 14-15 and did a 15hatch inside flash's base with his scouting drone after seeing flash drop down the 14cc, jaedong and flash would make barracks and spawning pool (150 vs 200) but the barracks probably finishes around the time spawning pool/hatchery finishes and unless flash pulls many scv's to kill the hatchery.... the hatchery makes 2 zerglings every 10 seconds. a barracks makes a marine like what every 25 seconds? ya im just fantasizing but damn i think i can see it working against 14cc (and nothing else) What about making the hatch in the terran wall? If it fitted there, and you cancel it after, you lost 75 to prevent T from walling-in. But of course you'll have 300 minerals you can't use for X time... I think JD could've won if he played decently. For example, in the last match, he could have skipped some hydras in exchange of getting overlord speed + ventral sacks, and the doom drop Flash's main (like effort tried).
i think JD also could have beaten flash on match point if he did 15hatch (expo) 17hatch (second expo) 17pool (since you know 14cc isnt going to attack you when you scout a damn 14cc) 20hydralisk den would be able to defend against all early aggression from a 14cc terran
after that you expand again (4th expo 4th hatch) and make a 5th hatch after saturating a bit more and you FILL the map with upgraded hydralisks with some guardians + scourge to combat any science vessels.
5hatch hydras/guardian/scourge can beat 2-3 base terran mech
meh maybe im just fantasizing more
i think if jaedong stayed calm and droned more against flash without making too much muta he woulda beat flash in a macro game
|
Just watched the finals on youtube, nice games =D
Glad to see Flash smile and enjoy the moments of his victory.
|
ouch game 3 was pretty painful.. Jeadong stubbornly kept attacking ahhhh
Flash = best player, Terran = best defense, therefore 'when Flash defense, you don't attack' seem like a safe bet XD
|
stop posting in this thread, roymarthyup.
|
On May 30 2010 08:16 uniplex wrote:
I think this is akin to basketball. Just like Bonjwa you don't throw around the label GOAT(greatest of all time) for any NBA players. So far only Jordan and Kareem has earned that distinction. Flash isn't there yet, but he is on pace to be considered one of the greatest in SC history.
Flash IS BONJWA.
End of story. Next topic please.
|
On May 30 2010 02:49 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
Flash Bonjwa! End of Discussion yo!
^^^
QFT
|
On May 30 2010 08:35 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:20 hypercube wrote:On May 30 2010 02:53 Roffles wrote:
You serious? I see this a week after Effort destroyed him with pretty much just zerglings. Duh, he's not perfect. He still delivered 3 out of 5 times this season, which is pretty good for a choker. Never called him a choker. Don't pull random shit outta your ass. Was just responding to another ridiculous claim of Flash bonjwa.
Well, you're ridiculous if ur saying that flash isnt bonjwa now.
|
|
|
On May 30 2010 13:06 FreshVegetables wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 08:35 Roffles wrote:On May 30 2010 08:20 hypercube wrote:On May 30 2010 02:53 Roffles wrote:
You serious? I see this a week after Effort destroyed him with pretty much just zerglings. Duh, he's not perfect. He still delivered 3 out of 5 times this season, which is pretty good for a choker. Never called him a choker. Don't pull random shit outta your ass. Was just responding to another ridiculous claim of Flash bonjwa. Well, you're ridiculous if ur saying that flash isnt bonjwa now.
I am one of the top Flash Fans. I've rarely missed a game. I despise mirror games even though TvT is usually the best out of them, but the only TvT I watch is if flash is playing. Flash is NOT a bonjwa. The qualifications are clear. Chances are there won't be a last bonjwa before SC2 takes over. His best chance will be to become the last GREAT player if he dominates the rest of the tournaments whatever is left of SC1 (imo a more entertaining game). It would be a slim chance to be bonjwa, but not impossilbe. Win PL + MSL + OSL and I wouldn't mind anyone claiming that, but he doesn't do it like the bonjwas of the past just yet. I'm glad he won. His strategy was perfect vs jaedong. Stop muta harrass and stop jaedong. Why? Because JD's late game starts much earlier if he can delay your econ / push time. I hope there is one clear winner between the two of them before this game dies out, but neither can be crowned bonjwa until they establish clear dominance over the other.
Just my 2 cents, heres to hoping there are several more years of SC1 dominating SC2
|
noobskills,
what r u talking about? even the korean interviewers acknowledged that there has been claims of a "Flash Era" happening. if that isnt bonjwa for u, nothing is.
flash has been pwning left and right. these days, getting a victory over flash pretty much relies on luck.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
