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[MSL] Grand Final - Page 157
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FusionCutter
Canada974 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128741 | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On June 02 2010 07:17 KMK wrote: why is it the North American region of the world are the only ones that have this thing in stuck their head of being blind fanboys and naming bonjwas, hopping on the whoever wins most train. Sc sees like more of an baseball game to them. Half the time they don't even realize what you have to go through to be on Jd or FlaSh's level of play/skill. As long as one is touchable, they will never be bonjwa, JD isnt, nor is flash(specially after being beat by nal_ra 1st game on old boy lulz). Then no one was ever a bonjwa. Someone made a post about how Flash had the highest winning% over a span of a year, isn't that good enough? | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
On June 02 2010 06:48 TheYango wrote: Overpool is risky on a 3 or 4 player map, because your early aggressive power isn't going to be useful if you don't scout him fast (especially given that Triathlon has a ling-tight wall), and if he went something safe, you're slightly behind. On the 2 player maps, being able to punish 14cc doesn't help because Flash scouted the 12hatch first, and would have likely gone rax/depot before CC if he didn't spot the 2nd hatchery. If you scout at appropriate time, you will know where is his base before your lings hatch out, so it's not that big of a risk. Of course if he did 1 rax fe, and builds his cc in base, you're slightly behind, but I've always said, that if you're confident that you will win, you can take small disadvantages in order not to lose to something stupid, like 14cc. On 2 player map, when Flash scv reaches your base and sees that there's no 12 hatch, he will have around 300 minerals, so he will have to do some panic supply depot/barracks walling, which will waste him a lot of money ;]. | ||
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malathion
United States362 Posts
On June 02 2010 18:15 Pokebunny wrote: Then no one was ever a bonjwa. Someone made a post about how Flash had the highest winning% over a span of a year, isn't that good enough? Dunno if you're referring to me (someone else could easily have had the same idea) but I'll just paste my post from the "Flash or Jaedong now?" thread: On June 02 2010 15:30 malathion wrote: Voted Jaedong twice; Flash is clearly a better player lately but Jaedong's style is much more entertaining to me for some reason. That said, I really cannot believe anyone is arguing that Flash is not bonjwa. He's made it by every metric you could expect of a bonjwa during this time period. I think we should have been thinking about the B-word well beforehand, but there shouldn't have been any doubt once we knew he would final in two starleagues for the second time in a row. For instance, that someone said "he needed to win OSL" before he could be bonjwa apparently forgot that he's the first player ever to finals for two starleagues twice in a row at all. Boxer couldn't do it, Nada couldn't do it, but Flash did it. In the past few months Flash personally won the Winners League, set all-time win streaks against two races, and laid waste to nearly everything that appeared before his eyes in comical fashion. 78% win rate since Jan 1st with 89 games played (almost a game every other day)? Are you fucking kidding me? Perspective: at this point in 2004, iloveoov was at 68% for the year, his best 6-month performance of his career, and in a much much less competitive environment, and fewer games played. If that's not a bonjwa, nothing is. I'm a Jaedong fan up one side and down the other, but Flash is bonjwa if anyone ever was. There's hardly anything he could have accomplished in the last year that he hasn't. You don't have to be a fanboy to know that. | ||
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theramstoss
Canada242 Posts
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VerticalHorizon
United States415 Posts
I'm not a fanboy either way, but Flash is bonjwa for me. The reason being this: BONJWA is a Korean term, no? And I would be bold enough to declare that the Korean commentators/analysts and the progamers themselves understand the SC scene much better than the majority of casual fans we have on this site. Well, the commentators themselves consider him beyond bonjwa level at this point. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On June 02 2010 07:17 KMK wrote: why is it the North American region of the world are the only ones that have this thing in stuck their head of being blind fanboys and naming bonjwas, hopping on the whoever wins most train. Sc sees like more of an baseball game to them. Half the time they don't even realize what you have to go through to be on Jd or FlaSh's level of play/skill. As long as one is touchable, they will never be bonjwa, JD isnt, nor is flash(specially after being beat by nal_ra 1st game on old boy lulz). That's quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard a European say. I don't know exactly what you're implying with your little spiel there but everyone in the world is just as inclined to fanboy as everyone else. Have you ever seen Germany during the world cup? The fact that some people treat starcraft just about the same way is more of a complement than anything else. So either you have no idea what you're talking about or you have no idea what you're talking about. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On June 03 2010 00:35 Jayme wrote: That's quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard a European say. I don't know exactly what you're implying with your little spiel there but everyone in the world is just as inclined to fanboy as everyone else. Have you ever seen Germany during the world cup? The fact that some people treat starcraft just about the same way is more of a complement than anything else. So either you have no idea what you're talking about or you have no idea what you're talking about. Psst dont feed the troll... | ||
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
On June 02 2010 19:16 ProoM wrote: If you scout at appropriate time, you will know where is his base before your lings hatch out, so it's not that big of a risk. Of course if he did 1 rax fe, and builds his cc in base, you're slightly behind, but I've always said, that if you're confident that you will win, you can take small disadvantages in order not to lose to something stupid, like 14cc. On 2 player map, when Flash scv reaches your base and sees that there's no 12 hatch, he will have around 300 minerals, so he will have to do some panic supply depot/barracks walling, which will waste him a lot of money ;]. Since when building supply depots/barracks means waste of money? lol | ||
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zoomzoom
United States1 Post
It seemed like the commentators were going on about how risky it was that Flash was skipping turrets so was it just for some kind of all-in timing push? | ||
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4mat
Canada7 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/4/4d/FlashFace.png | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On June 05 2010 08:26 4mat wrote: Can someone tell me what game this Flash face is from? lol http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/4/4d/FlashFace.png It was game 4 of the Flash/JD quarterfinals of GOMTV MSL S4 (on Zodiac). | ||
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dani_caliKorea
730 Posts
On June 05 2010 07:50 zoomzoom wrote: Flash played 3 amazing games to win it. Are valkyries prevalent in TvZ metagame? I keep up fairly well by watching the new videos released by Jon747 Violetak and nevake but I have never seen valkyries used? It seemed like the commentators were going on about how risky it was that Flash was skipping turrets so was it just for some kind of all-in timing push? It wasn't all in. He invested in valkyries instead of turrets, which proved just as if not more successful and fending off muta harass | ||
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TheMute
United States458 Posts
On June 05 2010 12:08 dani_caliKorea wrote: It wasn't all in. He invested in valkyries instead of turrets, which proved just as if not more successful and fending off muta harass It was risky in that Jaedong could have (and imo should have) sacked his third base and raped Flash's mineral line. | ||
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epik640x
United States1134 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On June 07 2010 00:56 epik640x wrote: Did Day9 put up any VoDs for this? day9 was casting this from sd, so...maybe it's on his livestream? | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On June 05 2010 17:54 TheMute wrote: It was risky in that Jaedong could have (and imo should have) sacked his third base and raped Flash's mineral line. I can see it both ways - it's really tough to say that you can easily make better decisions than JD. JD had a plan to crush the T ball, and it didn't execute properly. It's true that flash didn't have any turrets, but at no point in the game was he actually worried about mutalisk harass becuase he had the proper valkerye numbers vs the mutalisks. JD couldn't have won without the third gas, which is why he gg'd when he did. I think that even if JD had won the key deciding battle, flash might have chosen to make turrets, but more likely he would have chosen to defend with 2 mnm groups at home, and the science vessel tech was pretty much done. In terms of metagame, that particular map doesn't have a great ZvT/TvZ metagame, it's too new. Overall, Valkeries depend on the map - I would expect to see them on blue storm if it was played again, but I'm really not sure on that particular map. It's really dependent on a lot of the decisions that were made that game - flash might not have gone valks if jd had gone 2 hat muta, for example (might have gone with gols and better vulture harass, or possibly straight bio -_- hard to say) | ||
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