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you guys do realize hes the ONLY player to make double finals back to back. That shows he has a very dominant stance when coupled with this beastly PL stats.
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Lee Young Ho, I am happy to call you my Bonjwa.
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Damn,.. The Ultimate Weapon is just scary...
Even though I was rooting for Flash, I feel kinda bad for Jaedong.
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On May 30 2010 14:37 NoobSkills wrote:I just don't think you can say he is or jaedong isn't. There is meant to be one clear winner among a period of time and his/jaedong's period of time overlaps. If/when there is the next encounter AND next title won I believe one of them should own it. They flip flop their positions. I do agree that proleague adds another challenge into the mixture. But is one team effort enough to put flash over the top? I didn't think jaedongs MSL title last year made him one either. If flash had won both would my opinion change? Probably. But who here is the clearly DOMINATES the other one? Neither yet and I do believe that was clear that during all eras that even though saviors wins were spread out nobody would beat him on a regular basis. Now on the flip side if you do believe Flash's total accomplishments make him a Bonjwa already then perhaps jaedong is as well? Their accomplishments are not unlike. Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 14:30 Liquid_Turbo wrote:On May 30 2010 13:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 30 2010 13:06 FreshVegetables wrote:On May 30 2010 08:35 Roffles wrote:On May 30 2010 08:20 hypercube wrote:On May 30 2010 02:53 Roffles wrote:
You serious? I see this a week after Effort destroyed him with pretty much just zerglings. Duh, he's not perfect. He still delivered 3 out of 5 times this season, which is pretty good for a choker. Never called him a choker. Don't pull random shit outta your ass. Was just responding to another ridiculous claim of Flash bonjwa. Well, you're ridiculous if ur saying that flash isnt bonjwa now. I am one of the top Flash Fans. I've rarely missed a game. I despise mirror games even though TvT is usually the best out of them, but the only TvT I watch is if flash is playing. Flash is NOT a bonjwa. The qualifications are clear. Chances are there won't be a last bonjwa before SC2 takes over. His best chance will be to become the last GREAT player if he dominates the rest of the tournaments whatever is left of SC1 (imo a more entertaining game). It would be a slim chance to be bonjwa, but not impossilbe. Win PL + MSL + OSL and I wouldn't mind anyone claiming that, but he doesn't do it like the bonjwas of the past just yet. I'm glad he won. His strategy was perfect vs jaedong. Stop muta harrass and stop jaedong. Why? Because JD's late game starts much earlier if he can delay your econ / push time. I hope there is one clear winner between the two of them before this game dies out, but neither can be crowned bonjwa until they establish clear dominance over the other. Just my 2 cents, heres to hoping there are several more years of SC1 dominating SC2  This part is unnecessary to your argument. Many cry fanboy of JD or Flash. I have had zero responses to either side yet. Less name calling more discussion. Which is why I added it.
The difference is that when Jaedong was in his "super mode" Bisu and Flash were both up there with him.
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On May 30 2010 14:11 EntertainMe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 13:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 30 2010 13:06 FreshVegetables wrote:On May 30 2010 08:35 Roffles wrote:On May 30 2010 08:20 hypercube wrote:On May 30 2010 02:53 Roffles wrote:
You serious? I see this a week after Effort destroyed him with pretty much just zerglings. Duh, he's not perfect. He still delivered 3 out of 5 times this season, which is pretty good for a choker. Never called him a choker. Don't pull random shit outta your ass. Was just responding to another ridiculous claim of Flash bonjwa. Well, you're ridiculous if ur saying that flash isnt bonjwa now. I am one of the top Flash Fans. I've rarely missed a game. I despise mirror games even though TvT is usually the best out of them, but the only TvT I watch is if flash is playing. Flash is NOT a bonjwa. The qualifications are clear. Chances are there won't be a last bonjwa before SC2 takes over. His best chance will be to become the last GREAT player if he dominates the rest of the tournaments whatever is left of SC1 (imo a more entertaining game). It would be a slim chance to be bonjwa, but not impossilbe. Win PL + MSL + OSL and I wouldn't mind anyone claiming that, but he doesn't do it like the bonjwas of the past just yet. I'm glad he won. His strategy was perfect vs jaedong. Stop muta harrass and stop jaedong. Why? Because JD's late game starts much earlier if he can delay your econ / push time. I hope there is one clear winner between the two of them before this game dies out, but neither can be crowned bonjwa until they establish clear dominance over the other. Just my 2 cents, heres to hoping there are several more years of SC1 dominating SC2 Mind explaining what those qualifications are? Also at this time and age, where proleague take priority over individual league, Flash ABSOLUTELY dominated proleague and won (unlike Sea, and thus bringing first ever proleague win for KTF) with unprecedant 50+ wins, while achieving the never achieved 70+% on all match ups. That cannot be taken lightly. Not to mention, within the SAME season, Flash enters BOTH of the individual league's finals(also Back to Back that is) and wins another medal. That means Flash had to prepare for 3 leagues at once. No bonjwas had ever shown such dominance over short period of time. Going against your theory, no bonjwa was ever perfect. Like I mentioned in the previous posts, Savior had SO MANY legit contenders when compared to Flash (Jaedong being his only contender).-Savior was never the favorite against Chojja, zvz god at the time. Chojja always had the best of Savior. -Savior was never the favorite against Hwasin. At the time of Bo5 against Hwasin, the maps were so ridiculously Terran-Favored, savior went in game as the underdog (upto certain extent, which was proven wrong, which made Savior a legacy, a bonjwa). -Savior always had tough match against Irish. Remember Savior vs Iris game FIVE? It is considered one of the best game ever played and alot of people's personal favorite. Why? Because it shows how close Iris was beating Savior in bo5. Just one dropship away. (Another Savior's legacy) -Midas was never scared of Savior. Midas was always confident that he could beat Savior, he challenged Savior back to back because he firmly believed that he actually had a good shot against Savior. And many people thought so too. Just because Flash has a great contender like Jaedong doesn't make him a less of a bonjwa. **I used Savior as main example because the term bonjwa was first invented to describe Savior's state of dominance. But every other bonjwa can be replaced for same reasoning.
And here is where you whole paragraph before this sentece gets raped
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flash just showed why he is the best player right now ... he is a beast!
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United States47024 Posts
On May 30 2010 15:04 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 14:54 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
This time they met solid 3-0. Last time there was power outtage controversy (which is a damn shame). Commentators in Korea acknowledge him as Bonjwa. There really is no discussion.
Koreans invented the world Bonjwa, so when they use it, they use it to their definition. Not some own definition that fanboys of other players make up.
Exactly the name calling I tried to avoid. Koreans invented it. Koreans translated the meaning. Says you must be dominate. He cannot dominate JD 24/7. He won by nullifying JD's mutas in two matches on Terran favored maps. He lost the last MSL. He lost this OSL (to a lower ranked Z)Sorry, he will most likely be dominate this coming season and earn his title, but if that is the description of dominance the NYG dominate football.
Again, only one bonjwa has ever won double starleagues. It's simply not fair to require Flash to do so.
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On May 31 2010 02:56 CROrens wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 14:11 EntertainMe wrote:On May 30 2010 13:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 30 2010 13:06 FreshVegetables wrote:On May 30 2010 08:35 Roffles wrote:On May 30 2010 08:20 hypercube wrote:On May 30 2010 02:53 Roffles wrote:
You serious? I see this a week after Effort destroyed him with pretty much just zerglings. Duh, he's not perfect. He still delivered 3 out of 5 times this season, which is pretty good for a choker. Never called him a choker. Don't pull random shit outta your ass. Was just responding to another ridiculous claim of Flash bonjwa. Well, you're ridiculous if ur saying that flash isnt bonjwa now. I am one of the top Flash Fans. I've rarely missed a game. I despise mirror games even though TvT is usually the best out of them, but the only TvT I watch is if flash is playing. Flash is NOT a bonjwa. The qualifications are clear. Chances are there won't be a last bonjwa before SC2 takes over. His best chance will be to become the last GREAT player if he dominates the rest of the tournaments whatever is left of SC1 (imo a more entertaining game). It would be a slim chance to be bonjwa, but not impossilbe. Win PL + MSL + OSL and I wouldn't mind anyone claiming that, but he doesn't do it like the bonjwas of the past just yet. I'm glad he won. His strategy was perfect vs jaedong. Stop muta harrass and stop jaedong. Why? Because JD's late game starts much earlier if he can delay your econ / push time. I hope there is one clear winner between the two of them before this game dies out, but neither can be crowned bonjwa until they establish clear dominance over the other. Just my 2 cents, heres to hoping there are several more years of SC1 dominating SC2 Mind explaining what those qualifications are? Also at this time and age, where proleague take priority over individual league, Flash ABSOLUTELY dominated proleague and won (unlike Sea, and thus bringing first ever proleague win for KTF) with unprecedant 50+ wins, while achieving the never achieved 70+% on all match ups. That cannot be taken lightly. Not to mention, within the SAME season, Flash enters BOTH of the individual league's finals(also Back to Back that is) and wins another medal. That means Flash had to prepare for 3 leagues at once. No bonjwas had ever shown such dominance over short period of time. Going against your theory, no bonjwa was ever perfect. Like I mentioned in the previous posts, Savior had SO MANY legit contenders when compared to Flash (Jaedong being his only contender).-Savior was never the favorite against Chojja, zvz god at the time. Chojja always had the best of Savior. -Savior was never the favorite against Hwasin. At the time of Bo5 against Hwasin, the maps were so ridiculously Terran-Favored, savior went in game as the underdog (upto certain extent, which was proven wrong, which made Savior a legacy, a bonjwa). -Savior always had tough match against Irish. Remember Savior vs Iris game FIVE? It is considered one of the best game ever played and alot of people's personal favorite. Why? Because it shows how close Iris was beating Savior in bo5. Just one dropship away. (Another Savior's legacy) -Midas was never scared of Savior. Midas was always confident that he could beat Savior, he challenged Savior back to back because he firmly believed that he actually had a good shot against Savior. And many people thought so too. Just because Flash has a great contender like Jaedong doesn't make him a less of a bonjwa. **I used Savior as main example because the term bonjwa was first invented to describe Savior's state of dominance. But every other bonjwa can be replaced for same reasoning. And here is where you whole paragraph before this sentece gets raped
From an "objective" (no fanboyism towards either flash nor JD) POV: the sentence you inserted is pretty much BS. Imagine if saviors skills were the same, but all his competitors were terribads - would that really make savior a non-bonjwa?
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On May 31 2010 03:21 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 15:04 NoobSkills wrote:On May 30 2010 14:54 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
This time they met solid 3-0. Last time there was power outtage controversy (which is a damn shame). Commentators in Korea acknowledge him as Bonjwa. There really is no discussion.
Koreans invented the world Bonjwa, so when they use it, they use it to their definition. Not some own definition that fanboys of other players make up.
Exactly the name calling I tried to avoid. Koreans invented it. Koreans translated the meaning. Says you must be dominate. He cannot dominate JD 24/7. He won by nullifying JD's mutas in two matches on Terran favored maps. He lost the last MSL. He lost this OSL (to a lower ranked Z)Sorry, he will most likely be dominate this coming season and earn his title, but if that is the description of dominance the NYG dominate football. Again, only one bonjwa has ever won double starleagues. It's simply not fair to require Flash to do so.
people are crazy.
flash is the first person in history to get back to back finals. Gold/gold/silver/silver in four straight SL is amazing
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Savior was getting knocked out in OSL preliminaries while being bonjwa, so I don't see how losing a final 2-3 vs a top player takes away Flash's chances of getting that title...
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On May 31 2010 02:56 CROrens wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2010 14:11 EntertainMe wrote:On May 30 2010 13:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 30 2010 13:06 FreshVegetables wrote:On May 30 2010 08:35 Roffles wrote:On May 30 2010 08:20 hypercube wrote:On May 30 2010 02:53 Roffles wrote:
You serious? I see this a week after Effort destroyed him with pretty much just zerglings. Duh, he's not perfect. He still delivered 3 out of 5 times this season, which is pretty good for a choker. Never called him a choker. Don't pull random shit outta your ass. Was just responding to another ridiculous claim of Flash bonjwa. Well, you're ridiculous if ur saying that flash isnt bonjwa now. I am one of the top Flash Fans. I've rarely missed a game. I despise mirror games even though TvT is usually the best out of them, but the only TvT I watch is if flash is playing. Flash is NOT a bonjwa. The qualifications are clear. Chances are there won't be a last bonjwa before SC2 takes over. His best chance will be to become the last GREAT player if he dominates the rest of the tournaments whatever is left of SC1 (imo a more entertaining game). It would be a slim chance to be bonjwa, but not impossilbe. Win PL + MSL + OSL and I wouldn't mind anyone claiming that, but he doesn't do it like the bonjwas of the past just yet. I'm glad he won. His strategy was perfect vs jaedong. Stop muta harrass and stop jaedong. Why? Because JD's late game starts much earlier if he can delay your econ / push time. I hope there is one clear winner between the two of them before this game dies out, but neither can be crowned bonjwa until they establish clear dominance over the other. Just my 2 cents, heres to hoping there are several more years of SC1 dominating SC2 Mind explaining what those qualifications are? Also at this time and age, where proleague take priority over individual league, Flash ABSOLUTELY dominated proleague and won (unlike Sea, and thus bringing first ever proleague win for KTF) with unprecedant 50+ wins, while achieving the never achieved 70+% on all match ups. That cannot be taken lightly. Not to mention, within the SAME season, Flash enters BOTH of the individual league's finals(also Back to Back that is) and wins another medal. That means Flash had to prepare for 3 leagues at once. No bonjwas had ever shown such dominance over short period of time. Going against your theory, no bonjwa was ever perfect. Like I mentioned in the previous posts, Savior had SO MANY legit contenders when compared to Flash (Jaedong being his only contender).-Savior was never the favorite against Chojja, zvz god at the time. Chojja always had the best of Savior. -Savior was never the favorite against Hwasin. At the time of Bo5 against Hwasin, the maps were so ridiculously Terran-Favored, savior went in game as the underdog (upto certain extent, which was proven wrong, which made Savior a legacy, a bonjwa). -Savior always had tough match against Irish. Remember Savior vs Iris game FIVE? It is considered one of the best game ever played and alot of people's personal favorite. Why? Because it shows how close Iris was beating Savior in bo5. Just one dropship away. (Another Savior's legacy) -Midas was never scared of Savior. Midas was always confident that he could beat Savior, he challenged Savior back to back because he firmly believed that he actually had a good shot against Savior. And many people thought so too. Just because Flash has a great contender like Jaedong doesn't make him a less of a bonjwa. **I used Savior as main example because the term bonjwa was first invented to describe Savior's state of dominance. But every other bonjwa can be replaced for same reasoning. And here is where you whole paragraph before this sentece gets raped
Explain?...
On May 31 2010 04:10 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 02:56 CROrens wrote:On May 30 2010 14:11 EntertainMe wrote:On May 30 2010 13:18 NoobSkills wrote:On May 30 2010 13:06 FreshVegetables wrote:On May 30 2010 08:35 Roffles wrote:On May 30 2010 08:20 hypercube wrote:On May 30 2010 02:53 Roffles wrote:
You serious? I see this a week after Effort destroyed him with pretty much just zerglings. Duh, he's not perfect. He still delivered 3 out of 5 times this season, which is pretty good for a choker. Never called him a choker. Don't pull random shit outta your ass. Was just responding to another ridiculous claim of Flash bonjwa. Well, you're ridiculous if ur saying that flash isnt bonjwa now. I am one of the top Flash Fans. I've rarely missed a game. I despise mirror games even though TvT is usually the best out of them, but the only TvT I watch is if flash is playing. Flash is NOT a bonjwa. The qualifications are clear. Chances are there won't be a last bonjwa before SC2 takes over. His best chance will be to become the last GREAT player if he dominates the rest of the tournaments whatever is left of SC1 (imo a more entertaining game). It would be a slim chance to be bonjwa, but not impossilbe. Win PL + MSL + OSL and I wouldn't mind anyone claiming that, but he doesn't do it like the bonjwas of the past just yet. I'm glad he won. His strategy was perfect vs jaedong. Stop muta harrass and stop jaedong. Why? Because JD's late game starts much earlier if he can delay your econ / push time. I hope there is one clear winner between the two of them before this game dies out, but neither can be crowned bonjwa until they establish clear dominance over the other. Just my 2 cents, heres to hoping there are several more years of SC1 dominating SC2 Mind explaining what those qualifications are? Also at this time and age, where proleague take priority over individual league, Flash ABSOLUTELY dominated proleague and won (unlike Sea, and thus bringing first ever proleague win for KTF) with unprecedant 50+ wins, while achieving the never achieved 70+% on all match ups. That cannot be taken lightly. Not to mention, within the SAME season, Flash enters BOTH of the individual league's finals(also Back to Back that is) and wins another medal. That means Flash had to prepare for 3 leagues at once. No bonjwas had ever shown such dominance over short period of time. Going against your theory, no bonjwa was ever perfect. Like I mentioned in the previous posts, Savior had SO MANY legit contenders when compared to Flash (Jaedong being his only contender).-Savior was never the favorite against Chojja, zvz god at the time. Chojja always had the best of Savior. -Savior was never the favorite against Hwasin. At the time of Bo5 against Hwasin, the maps were so ridiculously Terran-Favored, savior went in game as the underdog (upto certain extent, which was proven wrong, which made Savior a legacy, a bonjwa). -Savior always had tough match against Irish. Remember Savior vs Iris game FIVE? It is considered one of the best game ever played and alot of people's personal favorite. Why? Because it shows how close Iris was beating Savior in bo5. Just one dropship away. (Another Savior's legacy) -Midas was never scared of Savior. Midas was always confident that he could beat Savior, he challenged Savior back to back because he firmly believed that he actually had a good shot against Savior. And many people thought so too. Just because Flash has a great contender like Jaedong doesn't make him a less of a bonjwa. **I used Savior as main example because the term bonjwa was first invented to describe Savior's state of dominance. But every other bonjwa can be replaced for same reasoning. And here is where you whole paragraph before this sentece gets raped From an "objective" (no fanboyism towards either flash nor JD) POV: the sentence you inserted is pretty much BS. Imagine if saviors skills were the same, but all his competitors were terribads - would that really make savior a non-bonjwa?
What do you mean "if saviors skills were the same"?
And I never said his competitors were terribads. Midas, Chojja, Nada were THE top players back in the day. I never meant to diminish Saviors accomplishment, but my point was that even Savior didnt completely dominate the scene like Flash is doing.
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If Flash wins another title this year I will call him bonjwa.
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boring final
game 1 was good until the nat fell, game 2 was already pretty bad (not using mutas to kill the rines because he didnt snipe the valks properly) and game 3 was just meh. he seemed to be supply blocked, getting 3 eggs at both nat and main
overall disappointing but im glad flash got his revenge
next season i hope we get a third Bo5 xD
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is there any way to watch the games ?
i missed the livestreams 
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On May 31 2010 05:19 ganjazerg wrote:is there any way to watch the games ? i missed the livestreams
www.youtube.com/jon747 has it
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Flash was one game away from being Bonjwa. . . Had he just taken a game off of Effort, there would be no fucking discussion about who the damn Bonjwa was. . . Better luck next time boy wonder!
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On May 31 2010 06:00 Emon_ wrote:
Flash was one game away from being Bonjwa. . . Had he just taken a game off of Effort, there would be no fucking discussion about who the damn Bonjwa was. . . Better luck next time boy wonder!
Wouldn't have mattered is my guess. People would come up with another reason.
As I said in another thread.
If you don't consider him bonjwa, fine. But atleast say it's because another player has been dominant in recent times (Jaedong) or that Flash's domination has been too short.
Don't say it's because he lost a final 2-3 after getting into 4 out of 4 possible finals. If that was the case, there have never been any bonjwas.
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You seriously recommended these games? Yeesh
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Jaedong, I'm dissapointed.
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EPT
