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On January 23 2010 21:22 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:19 iG.SwOrD wrote:
So giving the win to JD who had the edge in the game is blasphemy while giving a re-game to Flash who was losing is okay? Damn i got it now , its all about Flash. The game usually goes to the player who had advantage and everybody knows who had the edge. Was it all 'fair and square' ? Hell since when everything in this world is fair?
The world doesn't have rules. A simple computer game that not too many random events can occur in should. Expecting Kespa to have better rules isn't asking the world to suddenly be filled with faeries and unicorns shitting out rainbows and sunshine. It's asking a group that runs a competition to put some better thought into how they run their tournaments since their current system is obviously flawed.
Tell it to the supreme court dude. Rules are flawed and since when everything happpens the way it should? I guess Flash has privileges over the world and everything that happens has to suit him.
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Way to go MBC - ruining everyone's shit.
I think its pretty much hashed out by now - it was a lose/lose situation. To make things worse, it wasn't even clear who was the winner here. I had money on JD. I am a huge JD fan. I feel so bad for JD right now. Not only will he be viewed as a player who did not legitimately win this MSL, his victory is forever tainted.
Also sucks to be flash.
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On January 23 2010 21:26 Jefferson wrote:Show nested quote +The best Terran and the best Zerg in the history of Starcraft go head to head in one of the most anticipated series of all time! I am burstin into tears right now, i swear i am.
Well think about this way, 2 players go in.. 1 new player comes out:  Power Outage
Oh well, there's always next year. Flash wasn't even planning on getting to either finals this year just to get seeded. He came through with his promise to his fans and wasn't raging or visible upset at the power outage.
So I'm happy (even though at this point, Happy is closer to jaded.. I don't care about the MSL any more, I probably won't bother staying up to watch any of their live games next year..).
Look on the bright side, Flash kept his humility and is now $17340 USD richer and Jaedong made Zerg history..
+ Show Spoiler [Plus Something] +the OSL Trophy >>>> that crappy MSL trophy
Love Reality.
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On January 23 2010 21:27 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:24 Vivi57 wrote:
To all the jd fanboys: yes, jd raped flash strategically. That's very far from actually raping him. Even though he destroyed flash completely with his opening in game2, he still managed to lose. Flash is the better player so jd had to use these tricky openings to gain a small edge in the games.
If you do believe strategy is 100% of who makes a better player, look at flash vs movie on hbr. Movie does *everything* right strategically, but still loses. Strategy alone doesn't make you a great player. No... Movie did everything right UNTIL he decided to go late arbiters and allow Flash to take half the map without trying to dent his army. He had many chances to do so, especially since Flash didn't have vultures with speed and mines for a long time. A good start does not equate to doing "everything right strategically". Actually, it was Flash who played his disadvantage perfectly strategically into late game.
exactly. jd opening strong and playing well up to that point doesn't mean that he'll continue to play well. Especially since flash was playing really well strategically, defending his third *while* pressuring jd.
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On January 23 2010 21:28 Keniji wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:20 Ace wrote:
and for the last time JAEDONG DID NOT HAVE FULL TECH game 3. Jesus. It was going to come down to MM/Vessel vs Ultra/Ling/Defiler/Scourge micro AGAIN. Stop making shit up for fucks sake. Wait. What is a FULL TECH zerg then`? he had 3-5 ultras (or maybe 2-4 but must be close to 3-5 considering his fast upgrades), he had defilers. Oh damn, he haven't had devourers, that not a full tech zerg, alright. Anyway, the game might not be over 100%, but a rematch would have been as unfair to jaedong. Jaedong played great and probably have been robbed as much as flash.
FULL TECH = all upgrades and units you expect to see in ZvT. Did you see any lurkers on the map? Did you see them sitting at the expos waiting for the inevitable drop? Right didn't think so.
Then you aren't even sure yourself if his ultras were fully upped. Lol laughable. Seriously just admit Jaedong had an advantage and leave it at that. Or are we going to go through this "Jaedong had 5 gas for 5 minutes" stuff again? 
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On January 23 2010 21:29 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:27 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:24 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:19 machinus wrote:
Jaedong won two games, and was awarded the MSL title. There is no way to pretend that makes sense. Exactly. It's unfortunate that there was a black-out on game 3, but giving an automatic win to Jaedong was totally unfair to Flash, that game should of replayed. If Flash typed GG legitimately, I doubt the KT coach and his dad would be causing an uproar. A regame, as someone already mentioned, isn't the magical "fairest solution" in all circumstances. It sucks for the player who was ahead. It wasn't fair to Flash either though. I think G3 being replayed would of been the fairest solution. what? no it wouldn't lol. Jaedong had a special build prepared for that map and it was working. The only fair "solution" was not having this happen in the first place.
But it did happen, that doesn't mean Jaedong should of been automatically given a win.
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I hope they arrange it next season so the calm vs kwanros go to mbc and the flash vs jaedongs go to ogn.
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United States23455 Posts
Let's all just blame Kwanro/Calm.
If they never made the MSL Finals last year, then MBC would have rented out a bigger stadium for this season's final and never had this virtual studio. With no virtual studio, the power outage would have never went out.
If the power never went out, then we would have gotten an amazing finals.
So in the end, everyone got Kwanrolled.
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On January 23 2010 21:30 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:27 LorD_AreS wrote:
All I would like to say, alot of you are fanboys of either flash or jaedong and compare both none stop in these few games... Seriously your going to do this. This was terrible organization and screwed the games, the feeds and the pleasure watching this. This should of been Epic instead it was septic.
I really don't want to say who was better player tonight, expect big 0 for mbc and kespa. And the waiting with all the commercials arrgggg!!!!
TSL is better organized then this.
Good night all ! I felt like JD was strategically ahead of Flash, and did well against the 1 rax CC. However, aside from game 1, in games 2 and 3 Flash was pretty much displaying some of the best TvZ macro/micro that I've ever seen. Absolutely stunning play. Too bad MBC robbed us of what could have been a great finals.
Good way of putting it!!!
It was robbed.
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I am a huge fan of Flash and Jaedong. Going into this series, I though Jaedong had a small advantage and was a little more likely to win, but I was hoping for a Flash win. But being such a big fan of both players, I would have been happy with five good games and a well played tournament!
No starcraft fan should be happy about this result. If you think this was "good" and you are happy that MBC humiliated Flash and his family like this then you are not a true starcraft fan. Starcraft is a game where players dedicate their lives to practice, rules, and discipline, and to be treated like this, like some circus, because of an incompetent entertainment company is an INSULT. Flash was shown great disrespect, AND JAEDONG AS WELL, and no fan should be happy about this tournament.
It is not about who won. I think Jaedong had a slightly greater chance to win than Flash - but we did not get to see that match. MBC was right when their annoucers called this the greatest rivalry since boxer vs. yellow, but look what they did to it? We will all be very lucky if Flash doesn't break down because of this event. I hope he can work things out with Jaedong and continue to play starcraft. Jaedong fans should hope so too, so he will have a worthy opponent to show off his skills as well.
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I still can't believe they awarded JD the game there.
What a horrible horrible end to a finals that started off great. Anyways guys, looking forward to seeing what mods/idra/artosis/interviews of progamers have to say about this situation when I wake up tomorrow. Goodnight, shit happens I guess. Win both leagues next season Flash *shakes head*.. I don't even know if I'm going to watch the MSL not that it matters to them.
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United States47024 Posts
Interestingly, I imagine that Jaedong has to have some sympathy for Flash in this situation. Think about it:
- Kespa policy fucks over player
- Player's parents go apeshit and step way out of line to meddle in their son's career
HMM, I WONDER WHAT THIS SOUNDS LIKE?
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On January 23 2010 21:29 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:27 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:24 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:19 machinus wrote:
Jaedong won two games, and was awarded the MSL title. There is no way to pretend that makes sense. Exactly. It's unfortunate that there was a black-out on game 3, but giving an automatic win to Jaedong was totally unfair to Flash, that game should of replayed. If Flash typed GG legitimately, I doubt the KT coach and his dad would be causing an uproar. A regame, as someone already mentioned, isn't the magical "fairest solution" in all circumstances. It sucks for the player who was ahead. It wasn't fair to Flash either though. I think G3 being replayed would of been the fairest solution. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Either decision fucks someone. Now whichever decision you support basically depends on whether you're a Flash or Jaedong fanboy.
There are solutions to this, such as:
Give jaedong the win because there's nothing you can do about the power outage and calling for the match to be replayed is unfair to jaedong. But then you suspend the finals for a week, give both players a chance to reset their mindsets and then come back and finish it next week.
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On January 23 2010 21:20 Fionn wrote:
Flash and Jaedong should just have a boxing match.
Winner gets the MSL title.
I would rather like to see KeSpa having a boxing match with Chuck Norris
I was so pumped for this I even stood up with my head still drumming from last night so I was half dead but happy to see those two clash and what happend then was one of the saddest things I ever experienced in SC
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On January 23 2010 21:31 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:29 Ace wrote:On January 23 2010 21:27 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:24 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:19 machinus wrote:
Jaedong won two games, and was awarded the MSL title. There is no way to pretend that makes sense. Exactly. It's unfortunate that there was a black-out on game 3, but giving an automatic win to Jaedong was totally unfair to Flash, that game should of replayed. If Flash typed GG legitimately, I doubt the KT coach and his dad would be causing an uproar. A regame, as someone already mentioned, isn't the magical "fairest solution" in all circumstances. It sucks for the player who was ahead. It wasn't fair to Flash either though. I think G3 being replayed would of been the fairest solution. what? no it wouldn't lol. Jaedong had a special build prepared for that map and it was working. The only fair "solution" was not having this happen in the first place. But it did happen, that doesn't mean Jaedong should of been automatically given a win.
I mean this will go on forever. Give game to Jaedong, it's unfair for Flash. Replay game, it's unfair for Jaedong. How do you make it fair for both players? There really isn't a solution.
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I agree with most the other level headed people in this topic. Rematch would not be fair to Jaedong, Insta win would not be fair to Flash. Jaedong was probably 70-30 favourite at that point (In my terrible D+ knowledge of starcraft) so you can't just have a rematch. There really was no practical solution that would make everyone happy.
It's unfortunate that Jaedong won in that manner, but Jaedong played some great ZvT and had really good builds planned.. Flash unravelled in game 4.
In all pro sports ref's will make bad calls, you have to keep your composure and move on.
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If Flash is really wanting to be remembered as the best ever, an experience like this can only sharpen his mental game. It's only 1 finals. If he wants to be the best ever, he better start making lots of appearances at them.
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On January 23 2010 21:31 iG.SwOrD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:22 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On January 23 2010 21:19 iG.SwOrD wrote:
So giving the win to JD who had the edge in the game is blasphemy while giving a re-game to Flash who was losing is okay? Damn i got it now , its all about Flash. The game usually goes to the player who had advantage and everybody knows who had the edge. Was it all 'fair and square' ? Hell since when everything in this world is fair?
The world doesn't have rules. A simple computer game that not too many random events can occur in should. Expecting Kespa to have better rules isn't asking the world to suddenly be filled with faeries and unicorns shitting out rainbows and sunshine. It's asking a group that runs a competition to put some better thought into how they run their tournaments since their current system is obviously flawed. Tell it to the supreme court dude. Rules are flawed and since when everything happpens the way it should? I guess Flash has privileges over the world and everything that happens has to suit him.
You're right, let's have everything stay flawed when it's obviously wrong. Improving things is stupid. Let everything stay as it is and never improve.
I'm trying not to sound like a huge ass; but you should probably stop posting if that's the best argument you can come up with. You will find yourself awfully alone if you think re-games shouldn't be standard in SC when there are game failures/crashes.
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On January 23 2010 21:31 Ikonn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:29 Xxio wrote:On January 23 2010 21:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 Xxio wrote:
If Flash forfeit, walked out or something, would he still have been awarded the money for 2nd place? I kind of hoped he would. I mean, the kid is rich as it is. Eventually, some progamer/coach/manager is going to have to take a stand against KESPA's bullshit and show them that there are actually consequences for raping E-Sports. I'm wondering if that was the reason (money) KT decided not to forfeit...makes sense imo seeing as at that point the series was totally fucked anyways I don't think the sponsors would have been happy speaking of sponsors... i'm sure Nate regrets being associated with the worst starleague in history. seriously even before the shitstorm that happened after the end of game 3, i was developing spite towards the company due to the 500000 consecutive commercials advertising the search engine.
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EPT
