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On January 23 2010 21:29 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:27 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:24 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:19 machinus wrote:
Jaedong won two games, and was awarded the MSL title. There is no way to pretend that makes sense. Exactly. It's unfortunate that there was a black-out on game 3, but giving an automatic win to Jaedong was totally unfair to Flash, that game should of replayed. If Flash typed GG legitimately, I doubt the KT coach and his dad would be causing an uproar. A regame, as someone already mentioned, isn't the magical "fairest solution" in all circumstances. It sucks for the player who was ahead. It wasn't fair to Flash either though. I think G3 being replayed would of been the fairest solution. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Either decision fucks someone. Now whichever decision you support basically depends on whether you're a Flash or Jaedong fanboy.
It really doesn't. You can divorce yourself from prejudice and make a rational decision based on the circumstances. I fully understand that there was no 'right answer' to be had, but when someone is a judge, they have to make a decision that is as fair as possible, even when a truly good decision is impossible. You can determine which player would be wronged less by a decision and make that one. This is the route KeSPA took, and I honestly can say I can get behind it. I totally see the argument for replaying the 3rd set despite JD's massive advantage, but I don't think that making the choice that was made was characteristic of a partisan.
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Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:30 gravity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:20 EvilTeletubby wrote:On January 23 2010 21:18 gravity wrote:
The most fair way to decide an outage game, if a regame is impossible, would be to calculate the probability of each player winning (somehow - maybe base it on statistics from past matches, or better yet, live gambling odds if available) and pick randomly according to those odds (so if Flash had a 20% chance of winning, you would choose a random number from 1 to 100 and give Flash the win if you got 20 or less, otherwise give the win to Jaedong). I can guarantee THAT solution would result in riots.  Only because people don't understand probability, expected value, etc :/.
No, because that's an awful idea. There is a difference is they suggested a regame (where players would decide their own fate) vs a randomly shot in the dark that involves no effort/training/input, etc. I thought you were just joking at first. 
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On January 23 2010 21:33 Zplut wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:20 Fionn wrote:
Flash and Jaedong should just have a boxing match.
Winner gets the MSL title. I would rather like to see KeSpa having a boxing match with Chuck Norris I was so pumped for this I even stood up with my head still drumming from last night so I was half dead but happy to see those two clash and what happend then was one of the saddest things I ever experienced in SC KeSpa is a corporation with many many people. Chuck Norris would lose.
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On January 23 2010 21:30 Roffles wrote:However, aside from game 1, in games 2 and 3 Flash was pretty much displaying some of the best TvZ macro/micro that I've ever seen. Absolutely stunning play. Too bad MBC robbed us of what could have been a great finals.
No kidding. I'm not nearly as familiar with the game as many here, but I was blown away by the quality and relative consistency of Flash's medic micro for instance.
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Considering how Jaedongs parents acted during the FA situation, I wouldn't be surprised if some major shit goes down with Flash during the next free agency.
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On January 23 2010 21:34 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:31 Ikonn wrote:On January 23 2010 21:29 Xxio wrote:On January 23 2010 21:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 Xxio wrote:
If Flash forfeit, walked out or something, would he still have been awarded the money for 2nd place? I kind of hoped he would. I mean, the kid is rich as it is. Eventually, some progamer/coach/manager is going to have to take a stand against KESPA's bullshit and show them that there are actually consequences for raping E-Sports. I'm wondering if that was the reason (money) KT decided not to forfeit...makes sense imo seeing as at that point the series was totally fucked anyways I don't think the sponsors would have been happy speaking of sponsors... i'm sure Nate regrets being associated with the worst starleague in history. seriously even before the shitstorm that happened after the end of game 3, i was developing spite towards the company due to the 500000 consecutive commercials advertising the search engine.
Nate is associated with the TWO worst starleagues in history lol... Nate should never sponsor a starleague again
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On January 23 2010 21:33 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:31 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:29 Ace wrote:On January 23 2010 21:27 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:24 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:19 machinus wrote:
Jaedong won two games, and was awarded the MSL title. There is no way to pretend that makes sense. Exactly. It's unfortunate that there was a black-out on game 3, but giving an automatic win to Jaedong was totally unfair to Flash, that game should of replayed. If Flash typed GG legitimately, I doubt the KT coach and his dad would be causing an uproar. A regame, as someone already mentioned, isn't the magical "fairest solution" in all circumstances. It sucks for the player who was ahead. It wasn't fair to Flash either though. I think G3 being replayed would of been the fairest solution. what? no it wouldn't lol. Jaedong had a special build prepared for that map and it was working. The only fair "solution" was not having this happen in the first place. But it did happen, that doesn't mean Jaedong should of been automatically given a win. I mean this will go on forever. Give game to Jaedong, it's unfair for Flash. Replay game, it's unfair for Jaedong. How do you make it fair for both players? There really isn't a solution.
I thought G3 was pretty much even, only Jaedong slightly ahead economically. I thought Flash could of won G3, especially because Flash was winning so many battles.
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On January 23 2010 21:30 gravity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:20 EvilTeletubby wrote:On January 23 2010 21:18 gravity wrote:
The most fair way to decide an outage game, if a regame is impossible, would be to calculate the probability of each player winning (somehow - maybe base it on statistics from past matches, or better yet, live gambling odds if available) and pick randomly according to those odds (so if Flash had a 20% chance of winning, you would choose a random number from 1 to 100 and give Flash the win if you got 20 or less, otherwise give the win to Jaedong). I can guarantee THAT solution would result in riots. Only because people don't understand probability, expected value, etc :/.
One can still understand expected value and be against your solution. To some people, the law of large numbers is more fair than one instance.
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On January 23 2010 21:35 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:33 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:31 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:29 Ace wrote:On January 23 2010 21:27 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:24 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:19 machinus wrote:
Jaedong won two games, and was awarded the MSL title. There is no way to pretend that makes sense. Exactly. It's unfortunate that there was a black-out on game 3, but giving an automatic win to Jaedong was totally unfair to Flash, that game should of replayed. If Flash typed GG legitimately, I doubt the KT coach and his dad would be causing an uproar. A regame, as someone already mentioned, isn't the magical "fairest solution" in all circumstances. It sucks for the player who was ahead. It wasn't fair to Flash either though. I think G3 being replayed would of been the fairest solution. what? no it wouldn't lol. Jaedong had a special build prepared for that map and it was working. The only fair "solution" was not having this happen in the first place. But it did happen, that doesn't mean Jaedong should of been automatically given a win. I mean this will go on forever. Give game to Jaedong, it's unfair for Flash. Replay game, it's unfair for Jaedong. How do you make it fair for both players? There really isn't a solution. I thought G3 was pretty much even, only Jaedong slightly ahead economically. I thought Flash could of won G3, especially because Flash was winning so many battles.
Assuming both players mine out main + nat, Flash only had 1 mineral-only base. Jaedong had 3 o'clock and was defending 7, so that gives him 2 mineral bases and 3 gas. That's a pretty big advantage.
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I am really torn on this entire mess. Yes a regame would make sense to do, but that would screw Jaedong pretty much up with his game plan exposed, and he was most likely winning that game. Up several bases, maxed upgrades, almost a full tech tree against a Terran just about to go down to 1 base and with a low vessel count. Once Jaedong got plague that game would be all but over. Only thing I am not sure of is how many drones Jaedong had and if he was mining from his 3 and 7 base, really gotta re watch the game.
MBC needs to get their shit together, its not the first time they have technical problems
Really just a sad day for Esports...
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On January 23 2010 21:34 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:33 Zplut wrote:On January 23 2010 21:20 Fionn wrote:
Flash and Jaedong should just have a boxing match.
Winner gets the MSL title. I would rather like to see KeSpa having a boxing match with Chuck Norris I was so pumped for this I even stood up with my head still drumming from last night so I was half dead but happy to see those two clash and what happend then was one of the saddest things I ever experienced in SC KeSpa is a corporation with many many people. Chuck Norris would lose.
KeSPA will just plug in a heater into Chuck Noriss's computer and they'll be a power outa.. err Goodnight TeamLiquid, it was fun not being able to connection your DATABASE 1.
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Both time Flash and Jaedong have met in a finals, it has been a complete disaster. The GOMtv Classic Season 1 finals were trash and this is probably the worst fuck-up in the history of e-sports.
Is the Lee-Ssang Rok cursed?
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giving jaedong game three shouldn't really be the problem, it's how the officials handled the situation. there was no fair way to handle it, but in the very least they could have spent more time reviewing it and presenting their decision to the players, teams and fans, instead of running around for over an hour dealing with angry coaches and flashes dad.
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[QUOTE]On January 23 2010 21:12 SkyTheUnknown wrote:
[QUOTE]
The person really robbed here was Jaedong. To take a win, on heavily favored Terran map, against someone so deadly against Zerg as Flash, that would have been JD's greatest accomplishment, or one of his greatest. The fact that JD couldn't get Flash to type gg - that is just extremely dis-satisfactory. [/QUOTE]
Best summary of game 3 and best conclusion of the outcomes in this post.
I'll stick my neck out, as I'm inclined to agree.
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Flash had what, mined out main, almost mined out natural, scv transfer to a mineral only(which doesn't have much mineral patches), and a stunning army of...10 marines?
Jaedong wasn't mined out, he also had 3rd up, swarms and a SUPERIOR army protecting 4th. He'd have to wait for one or two unit production rounds, and, thx to having map control due to superior army and nyduses, would just have to swarm the 3rd and gg.
No he didn't need lurkers against drops. 3/3 cracklings clear drops (of 10 marines keke) pretty easily.
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On January 23 2010 21:32 Fionn wrote:
Let's all just blame Kwanro/Calm.
If they never made the MSL Finals last year, then MBC would have rented out a bigger stadium for this season's final and never had this virtual studio. With no virtual studio, the power outage would have never went out.
If the power never went out, then we would have gotten an amazing finals.
So in the end, everyone got Kwanrolled.
LOL.
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On January 23 2010 21:35 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:35 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:33 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:31 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:29 Ace wrote:On January 23 2010 21:27 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:24 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:19 machinus wrote:
Jaedong won two games, and was awarded the MSL title. There is no way to pretend that makes sense. Exactly. It's unfortunate that there was a black-out on game 3, but giving an automatic win to Jaedong was totally unfair to Flash, that game should of replayed. If Flash typed GG legitimately, I doubt the KT coach and his dad would be causing an uproar. A regame, as someone already mentioned, isn't the magical "fairest solution" in all circumstances. It sucks for the player who was ahead. It wasn't fair to Flash either though. I think G3 being replayed would of been the fairest solution. what? no it wouldn't lol. Jaedong had a special build prepared for that map and it was working. The only fair "solution" was not having this happen in the first place. But it did happen, that doesn't mean Jaedong should of been automatically given a win. I mean this will go on forever. Give game to Jaedong, it's unfair for Flash. Replay game, it's unfair for Jaedong. How do you make it fair for both players? There really isn't a solution. I thought G3 was pretty much even, only Jaedong slightly ahead economically. I thought Flash could of won G3, especially because Flash was winning so many battles. Assuming both players mine out main + nat, Flash only had 1 mineral-only base. Jaedong had 3 o'clock and was defending 7, so that gives him 2 mineral bases and 3 gas. That's a pretty big advantage.
His CC was pretty much done, Jaedong was still having problems taking out a group of M&M army. M&M are cheap, he could of easily replenished his army and get a 3rd expansion.
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The decision itself couldn't have been helped. It had to be made one way or the other.
What was shitty was the lack of transparency. They should have explained their results in objective terms explaining policies already built in so there is not this air of "manipulation" or "bias". That was really the best that they could do in that situation, because either way (replay or give game) fucks someone.
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On January 23 2010 21:35 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:33 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:31 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:29 Ace wrote:On January 23 2010 21:27 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:25 StRyKeR wrote:On January 23 2010 21:24 FireGuyX wrote:On January 23 2010 21:19 machinus wrote:
Jaedong won two games, and was awarded the MSL title. There is no way to pretend that makes sense. Exactly. It's unfortunate that there was a black-out on game 3, but giving an automatic win to Jaedong was totally unfair to Flash, that game should of replayed. If Flash typed GG legitimately, I doubt the KT coach and his dad would be causing an uproar. A regame, as someone already mentioned, isn't the magical "fairest solution" in all circumstances. It sucks for the player who was ahead. It wasn't fair to Flash either though. I think G3 being replayed would of been the fairest solution. what? no it wouldn't lol. Jaedong had a special build prepared for that map and it was working. The only fair "solution" was not having this happen in the first place. But it did happen, that doesn't mean Jaedong should of been automatically given a win. I mean this will go on forever. Give game to Jaedong, it's unfair for Flash. Replay game, it's unfair for Jaedong. How do you make it fair for both players? There really isn't a solution. I thought G3 was pretty much even, only Jaedong slightly ahead economically. I thought Flash could of won G3, especially because Flash was winning so many battles.
God this irritates me so much right now and I don't even know why.
It's could have, would have, should have
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Canada5565 Posts
So is KT still standing by not participating in another MBC event?
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EPT
