This has "ace match!" written all over it, with Hiya and Jaedong being the favorites in their respective matches for Oz, with Bisu and Fantasy doing the same for T1. Match Point seems pretty balanced for PvZ at this point, so assuming Hwaseung doesnt make the mistake of sending someone other than Jaedong for ace, we could be seeing a really great Bisu vs Jaedong ace match.
On second thought, with Match Point sporting a 7-1 TvZ, a Fantasy vs Jaedong ace match may be more likely.
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Poll: Who do you think will win? (Vote): Hwaseung Oz (Vote): SK Telecom T1
On December 06 2009 09:47 Hinanawi wrote: Oz actually got a pretty good draw, here. They could take it 3-1, but I hope it's 2-2 and we get an epic JD-Bisu final.
Damn, we could have a Flash-Effort ace AND a Bisu-JD ace in one night if the stars align.
Probably not Bisu/JD ace because Match Point has a 7-1 TvZ record. I'm thinking SKT will try to take advantage of that.
3-1 OZ. I don't trust Bisu anymore... Hopefully soO or Canata can pull a win out of their asses and take it to ACE where fantasy has a chance against Jaedong especially with map imba and will probably crush anyone else. But I wouldn't be surprised by a 3-0 from OZ...
EDIT: Forgot to mention how awesome Hwaseung House was.
The ace is on Match point, which is an absolute graveyard for zerg in TvZ. Very likely Fantasy would bet sent out so we might not see Jaedong/Killer but rather Hiya or lomo (or maybe backho lol) if they are prepping for ace.
Haha nice comic, hopefully some progamers have that kind of humor. Hoping for a 3-1 from SKT, HiyA on my anti-team. But 3 TvZs and Bisu playing is something I will always look forward to, should be fun.
I do not think that Jaedong will not be sent out this ace match because he's played in 3/6 (and never more than 50% of the matches) this year for Oz since his contract.
I think Lomo is coming out for the Ace match today.
Match Points TvZ stats are a little misleading, basically every game was a superior T player vs an inferior Z player (sorry Calm). Jaedong certainly has the greatest chance of winning in ace of any Oz player. Plus just looking at the map, it looks a little T favored but not glaringly imbalanced or anything Edit- Amazing HH as always
On December 06 2009 10:11 n.DieJokes wrote: Match Points TvZ stats are a little misleading, basically every game was a superior T player vs an inferior Z player (sorry Calm). Jaedong certainly has the greatest chance of winning in ace of any Oz player. Plus just looking at the map, it looks a little T favored but not glaringly imbalanced or anything Edit- Amazing HH as always
Yeah, the only questionable ones are Hwasin vs Shine and, honestly, I don't think Hwasin winning a TvZ is anything to speculate over. Also Fantasy vs Calm, but Calm had that game WON, only to throw it away for no good reason, so it's very possible for a zerg to win.
I know it's jaedong, but I wouldn't count Canata out. Last time they played, it went to 5th game on z favored maps, and they're playing on Fighting Spirit, which is like 70% TvZ. if there is going to be an upset, it'll be canata over jaedong
seeing n.Die_soO is some consolation though, he's pretty much the Zerg version of BeSt: all macro, no micro. Remember his MST game vs. RuBy? It was pretty hilarious:
Basically he opened 3 hatch before pool, took every expo on Carthage, and then proceeded to suicide waves and waves of ultraling into 3/3 tanks, it was NOT pretty. He would be hatching like 20 drones at a time and forgetting to send them to his 11th expo to mine
Kid has style! His macro play will work well against HiyA.
HH literally made me laugh out loud, awesome again Atrioc !
I think this had a high probability of ace match, with Jaedong and Hiya taking their games (no matter how bad Bisu is playing lately, it's PvP and he's still Bisu).
So if it's ace -> Jaedong > Bisu OR Jaedong < Fantasy
I have no idea why I think Fantasy would beat Jaedong, but he does seem to favour the BO1 style when playing Jaedong. It depends if Jaedong upsets his rythm or not though.
Hmm..this is most likely going to ace but SKT underdogs have more chances of upsets than Oz underdogs. Plus it's on match point, which the pre season statistics and right now favor terran. Definitely possible, but I'll be holding my breath on this one.
On December 06 2009 10:56 Avidkeystamper wrote: Hmm..this is most likely going to ace but SKT underdogs have more chances of upsets than Oz underdogs. Plus it's on match point, which the pre season statistics and right now favor terran. Definitely possible, but I'll be holding my breath on this one.
Honestly? I'm taking Bisu's last 2 PvP's as the exception that prove the rule. Plus Canata is decent, while Spear isn't....um, good. Prolly better than Haksoo though.
On December 06 2009 11:11 Avidkeystamper wrote: Honestly? I'm taking Bisu's last 2 PvP's as the exception that prove the rule. Plus Canata is decent, while Spear isn't....um, good. Prolly better than Haksoo though.
Hm. I'm a lot less confident about Bisu, myself. Dropping a game here and there is fine, but he's been losing more than that in his last few games, and against opponents of questionable caliber.
On December 06 2009 11:11 Avidkeystamper wrote: Honestly? I'm taking Bisu's last 2 PvP's as the exception that prove the rule. Plus Canata is decent, while Spear isn't....um, good. Prolly better than Haksoo though.
Hm. I'm a lot less confident about Bisu, myself. Dropping a game here and there is fine, but he's been losing more than that in his last few games, and against opponents of questionable caliber.
Aye, I've been noticing that as well. Maybe he's getting tired of SC. Just a conjecture of course.
Edit: WHY DOESN'T THIS MATCH HAVE MORE HYPE?!?!?! It starts in an hour and a half, gather your friends, pizza, and alcohol, then go crazy. I've gotta study for finals though so hopefully someone will provide in-depth analysis.
On December 06 2009 11:11 Avidkeystamper wrote: Honestly? I'm taking Bisu's last 2 PvP's as the exception that prove the rule. Plus Canata is decent, while Spear isn't....um, good. Prolly better than Haksoo though.
Hm. I'm a lot less confident about Bisu, myself. Dropping a game here and there is fine, but he's been losing more than that in his last few games, and against opponents of questionable caliber.
Aye, I've been noticing that as well. Maybe he's getting tired of SC. Just a conjecture of course.
Edit: WHY DOESN'T THIS MATCH HAVE MORE HYPE?!?!?! It starts in an hour and a half, gather your friends, pizza, and alcohol, then go crazy. I've gotta study for finals though so hopefully someone will provide in-depth analysis.
Because KT vs CJ has probably the best line up potential wise of any proleague game ever.
On December 06 2009 11:21 Zato-1 wrote: Hm. I'm a lot less confident about Bisu, myself. Dropping a game here and there is fine, but he's been losing more than that in his Last few games, and against opponents of questionable caliber.
There's a difference between "could possibly drop this game" and "is the underdog in this game". Just because he got a lot less consistent doesn't mean he isn't the heavy favorite to win this. You don't go from "best PvP in the world" to "worse than Spear" overnight.
I don't know what to expect from this match. I feel like it's going to ace, and if Jaedong comes out, Oz will most likely win.
I could say this for every Oz matchup, obviously, but I feel compelled to repeat myself because it still floors me that Oz doesn't send Jaedong for every ace match whether he wants them all or not.
Like was pointed out in the OP, I don't think JD will be sent out because of the horrendous TvZ Match Point has. You HAVE to know that SKT will send out Fantasy or Canata for ACE because they EXPECT Jaedong. I think HiyA or Backho would have a greater chance of success there.
On December 06 2009 12:31 lone_hydra wrote: Jaedong is going to be playing in ace. Coach Cho said he will try to avoild using JD is R1. This ain't R1 anymore.
But this is also Match Point, where a Z will be at a disadvantage vs a T.
On December 06 2009 12:31 lone_hydra wrote: Jaedong is going to be playing in ace. Coach Cho said he will try to avoild using JD is R1. This ain't R1 anymore.
But this is also Match Point, where a Z will be at a disadvantage vs a T.
Really, I doubt Hiya or Bacho stands more of a chance on Matchpoint then JD vs. Fantasy. Regardless of map imba.
On December 06 2009 12:31 lone_hydra wrote: Jaedong is going to be playing in ace. Coach Cho said he will try to avoild using JD is R1. This ain't R1 anymore.
But this is also Match Point, where a Z will be at a disadvantage vs a T.
He's Jaedong remember? I do believe JD can crush anyone giving whatever kind of map disadvantage thrown at him.
Anyway, if things turn out like how they are supposed to do, it should be:
Hiya > soO Fantasy > Killer Jaedong > Canata Bisu > Spear Jaedong > Fantasy or Fantasy > Jaedong
sweet both of tonights proleague look sweet! tip to anyone who wants to watch both: just open two internet explorers and resize/move them so you can see the entirety of both streams. :D so awesome!
When JD is playing there is no map imba... JD has a much bigger chance of beating Fantasy on Match Point than Lomo, Hiya, BackHo, or Killer... Plus 7-1 is too little of a sample anyways. Let's go OZ...
such conflicting feelings. i'd hate to see fantasy be able to claw himself back into this one after such a colossal failure in the beginning, but then again, killer is on my anti-team....
Come on Fantasy, if you can come back 2 base vs 5 against calm you should be able to do it against Killer right?.... except 4 gas zerg has a fuckton of mutas
On December 06 2009 13:38 Chen wrote: Come on Fantasy, if you can come back 2 base vs 5 against calm you should be able to do it against Killer right?.... except 4 gas zerg has a fuckton of mutas
Well Killer didn't toss overlords into turrets. + Show Spoiler +
- Your had a very good simcity. ▲ Lately zergs have had very good simcity. It is very challenging to play against this style, so I decided to try my own sim city. I built 2 CCs because they have the most hit points. Actually this strategy was not very successful in practice so I was worried, but I kept a good mind set.
I may not win FPL, LB, or even come close. But last round it was obvious Flash was going to do better than Jaedong and this round it's obvious Killer is a bad anti-team choice.
On December 06 2009 13:42 Avidkeystamper wrote: I may not win FPL, LB, or even come close. But last round it was obvious Flash was going to do better than Jaedong and this round it's obvious Killer is a bad anti-team choice.
On December 06 2009 13:42 Avidkeystamper wrote: I may not win FPL, LB, or even come close. But last round it was obvious Flash was going to do better than Jaedong and this round it's obvious Killer is a bad anti-team choice.
You say that...NOW. >_>
Nah, check out my previous comments when Killer loses (sometimes badly). I've always believed, granted he's still sloppy but he at least has better control over his aggression. (He used to suicide units too much).
how can i get so unlucky in fpl? type-b lost to a 9 pvz game losing streak jangbi fantasy loses to a 7 zvt game losing streak killer, and thanks to that, bisu doesn't get a chance to play.
On December 06 2009 14:02 alphafuzard wrote: how can i get so unlucky in fpl? type-b lost to a 9 pvz game losing streak jangbi fantasy loses to a 7 zvt game losing streak killer, and thanks to that, bisu doesn't get a chance to play.
On December 06 2009 14:02 alphafuzard wrote: how can i get so unlucky in fpl? type-b lost to a 9 pvz game losing streak jangbi fantasy loses to a 7 zvt game losing streak killer, and thanks to that, bisu doesn't get a chance to play.
T.T
at least you didn't have killer on your anti -_-
I had fantasy on my fpl and killer on my anti... I'm screwed
The hold lurkers only killed about half of the forces.... the rest of the poor bastards had to retreat against a non-stop flow of lings and lurkers blocking their path. Don't think a single one made it back. Would make for a horrifying story to some child!
On December 06 2009 14:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Bwahahahahaha owned SKT1, die scum!
Geez, I don't get the SKT1 hate.
It's not like I hate on people when their teams lose.
On December 06 2009 14:14 EvoChamber wrote: Especially to a team whose fans are renowned for their good manners and general all-around inoffensiveness in LR threads!
On December 06 2009 14:14 EvoChamber wrote: Especially to a team whose fans are renowned for their good manners and general all-around inoffensiveness in LR threads!
If this is sarcasm, BM still doesn't justify BM.
Well you don't, but there are people (always will be) that ruin it for their team's fanbase.
JD crushed Canata like a little bug. I loved how he responded to the bunker rush and the hold position lurkers was fucking sexy. JD is clearly a level above him.
On December 06 2009 14:17 Dice wrote: JD crushed Canata like a little bug. I loved how he responded to the bunker rush and the hold position lurkers was fucking sexy. JD is clearly a level above him.
On December 06 2009 14:17 Dice wrote: JD crushed Canata like a little bug. I loved how he responded to the bunker rush and the hold position lurkers was fucking sexy. JD is clearly a level above him.
Man Carnivorous Sheep is just trash talking :/. PL trash talking is what makes PL fun. I don't see why he's a douche or BM. Not like he really wants SKT to die -_-;;;;;;
On December 06 2009 14:14 EvoChamber wrote: Especially to a team whose fans are renowned for their good manners and general all-around inoffensiveness in LR threads!
If this is sarcasm, BM still doesn't justify BM.
He was super excited because Oz won a match, finally. It's understandable.
On December 06 2009 14:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Bwahahahahaha owned SKT1, die scum!
Geez, I don't get the SKT1 hate.
It's not like I hate on people when their teams lose.
On December 06 2009 14:14 EvoChamber wrote: Especially to a team whose fans are renowned for their good manners and general all-around inoffensiveness in LR threads!
If this is sarcasm, BM still doesn't justify BM.
He was super excited because Oz won a match, finally. It's understandable.
Yeah, what with our ace having so much individual league success, it's exciting to beat a team who have less to practice for.
On December 06 2009 14:16 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well you don't, but there are people (always will be) that ruin it for their team's fanbase.
Yes, but at the same time, I would figure that those douches exist on every team.
Yes, but the teams with the biggest fanbase have the most douchebag fans. Plus they're extra surly because it's SKT; CJ and Oz fans don't even come close in that department.
Woongjin has the best fan quality on average because they have the fewest fans and have virtually no bandwagoners. That, plus they have Realpenguin.
On December 06 2009 14:27 EvoChamber wrote: Yes, but the teams with the biggest fanbase have the most douchebag fans. Plus they're extra surly because it's SKT; CJ and Oz fans don't even come close in that department.
See, I'm 1) not sure this is necessarily true, bearing in mind that SKT has more than double the fanbase of any other team on TL other than CJ (and still has 50% more than CJ) and 2) if it is true, I have no idea why it would be the case.
In general, I just don't see how you can derive enjoyment out of a team losing. Hwaseung fans have every right to be happy, but it just seems silly to hate a team enough to root against them regardless of opponent (noting the STX symbol by Carnivorous Sheep's name--but also at the general sentiment against SKT). What could they possibly have done to create that kind of contempt? Even if there are a large percentage of douchy SKT fans, why should that be held against the team? It's not like they have control over who roots for them.
Boxer and fantasy fans I respect but most of bisu's fans show such little understanding of starcraft that it drives real fans (who actually understand the game they are watching) to hate the team AND the player.
I think bisu is the best protoss in the history of the game but I love when he loses stupidly and his fans have a million stupid reasons for why it happend.
On December 06 2009 15:04 Hinanawi wrote: Personally, I just enjoy seeing Fantasy and Bisu lose. They just happen to be on SKT1, and it's pretty hard for SKT1 to win if both of them lose.
See, then I have to ask why? What have either of those players done to deserve that contempt? They both have produced strong, entertaining games of Starcraft, so in what way to they deserve to lose?
On December 06 2009 15:05 AttackZerg wrote: Boxer and fantasy fans I respect but most of bisu's fans show such little understanding of starcraft that it drives real fans (who actually understand the game they are watching) to hate the team AND the player.
Huge generalization, but I suppose I can actually see this being true, given:
1) More successful player attract more bandwagoning and uninformed fans (meaning Bisu/Flash/Jaedong will obviously have more dumb bandwagon fans). 2) Many uninformed fans favor by race (e.g. Protoss players root for other Protoss players) 3) The majority of low level players are Protoss.
On December 06 2009 15:05 AttackZerg wrote: I love bisu fans crying.
Boxer and fantasy fans I respect but most of bisu's fans show such little understanding of starcraft that it drives real fans (who actually understand the game they are watching) to hate the team AND the player.
I think bisu is the best protoss in the history of the game but I love when he loses stupidly and his fans have a million stupid reasons for why it happend.
On December 06 2009 15:04 Hinanawi wrote: Personally, I just enjoy seeing Fantasy and Bisu lose. They just happen to be on SKT1, and it's pretty hard for SKT1 to win if both of them lose.
See, then I have to ask why? What have either of those players done to deserve that contempt? They both have produced strong, entertaining games of Starcraft, so in what way to they deserve to lose?
On an unrelated note: fuck my liquibets.
Who said they deserve to lose? We just like to see them do it. Logic does not factor into this at all
On December 06 2009 15:09 Kyuukyuu wrote: Who said they deserve to lose? We just like to see them do it. Logic does not factor into this at all
The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
I'm not trying to be whiny or troll or anything. I'm just legitimately curious about the mindset of anti-fandom. Mostly because I can't think of any players that immediately come to mind that I enjoy seeing lose.
On December 06 2009 15:04 Hinanawi wrote: Personally, I just enjoy seeing Fantasy and Bisu lose. They just happen to be on SKT1, and it's pretty hard for SKT1 to win if both of them lose.
See, then I have to ask why? What have either of those players done to deserve that contempt? They both have produced strong, entertaining games of Starcraft, so in what way to they deserve to lose?
On an unrelated note: fuck my liquibets.
I don't take it as seriously as I think you think I do...I don't have 'contempt' for either of them. It's all in good fun for me.
It's just fun to have players to cheer against, as well as players to cheer for. Having a player or two that you love to hate, irrationally or not, is awesome.
On December 06 2009 15:09 Kyuukyuu wrote: Who said they deserve to lose? We just like to see them do it. Logic does not factor into this at all
The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
I'm not trying to be whiny or troll or anything. I'm just legitimately curious about the mindset of anti-fandom. Mostly because I can't think of any players that immediately come to mind that I enjoy seeing lose.
Are you really trying to apply logic to something that has no logic?
On December 06 2009 15:22 baubo wrote: Are you really trying to apply logic to something that has no logic?
Probably, yes.
Not all preferences are illogical. I'm just curious whether anti-fandom is. Generally there's a logic to why people LIKE players (they perform well, have a style that meshes well with the fan's own style, create tense moments, etc.), so it's not exactly far-fetched that they might have a logic to disliking them.
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
People actually give a shit about that?
I always thought that either he's just humoring the interviewer by playing along with the meme, or he's too shy/awkward to realize that he's being trolled (seeing as the interviewers *always* bring up the maps when its Bisu). Not sure how that reflects negatively on him, seeing as people known all along that he was shy/awkward.
On December 06 2009 15:05 AttackZerg wrote: I love bisu fans crying.
Boxer and fantasy fans I respect but most of bisu's fans show such little understanding of starcraft that it drives real fans (who actually understand the game they are watching) to hate the team AND the player.
I think bisu is the best protoss in the history of the game but I love when he loses stupidly and his fans have a million stupid reasons for why it happend.
(oystein I still love you)
So by that definition you hate any avid fans?
You're really not saying much because every player has their fans that do that.
And it really seems like you're just bunching all Bisu fans together. :[
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
I agree with TheYango. I understand that Oz fans are proud of their team and seeing them win and want to declare "YEAH 3-0 RAPE!" That's just part of being a fan. But why hate on SKT1? When SKT1 won 3-0 against Oz, it was always "YEAH 3-0 RAPE woot" and not "YEAH Oz loses 0-3, go die in a fire Oz fans!" The last few pages go around and describes Jaedong as a BoX specialist and a really good player and is overall respectful toward Oz when not declaring victory in increasingly rowdy ways. Now the situation is reversed and Oz fans can't give SKT1 the same treatment?
The last few pages have comments like "Watching SKT players lose is a treat" and "I love when SKT1 get 3-0ed and even MORE when its from my favorite team!"
I mean Fantasy isn't the best player, or even the best Terran. But he certainly doesn't suck. Bisu didn't even play in the match. Is it necessary to declare how they should lose and SKT1 needs to lose/die? I feel that deriving enjoyment from people failing instead of people succeeding is looking at an issue in the wrong way.
In reality, everyone says some maps are hard, but others go on and talk about how they'll try and make their victories better. Bisu doesn't, always focusing on whatever obstacle the map brings.
You wanna know WHY people react that way Ecrilon? Cause SKT fans are the funniest when they get butthurt, seriously if you succuessfully manage to troll a SKT fan they'll cry harder and longer then anyone else.
And yes, I do love the fact that SKT lost simply 'cause I don't like the team. I AM ENJOYING THIS!
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
On December 06 2009 16:57 Avidkeystamper wrote: In reality, everyone says some maps are hard, but others go on and talk about how they'll try and make their victories better. Bisu doesn't, always focusing on whatever obstacle the map brings.
This is true, but again, I'm curious as to why people consider this enough of a flaw to hate someone for. It takes a lot more than a few irritating comments for me to actively wish ill will on someone, particularly if they're someone I've never met.
And yeah, BanZu, take a chill pill, or go to bed. This discussion really doesn't call for being so hotheaded (particularly since you're lending to Julmust's point).
On December 06 2009 15:05 AttackZerg wrote: I love bisu fans crying.
Boxer and fantasy fans I respect but most of bisu's fans show such little understanding of starcraft that it drives real fans (who actually understand the game they are watching) to hate the team AND the player.
I think bisu is the best protoss in the history of the game but I love when he loses stupidly and his fans have a million stupid reasons for why it happend.
(oystein I still love you)
thats a pretty dumb reason to hate a team and the player
Julmut, trolling itself, as a concept, is deriving enjoyment from someone else getting angry. Now, I understand that a lot of people are amused by the anger of others, but do you agree that saying things for the sole purpose of angering someone else is rather selfish, rude and not at all deserving of the label "civil conversation"? I assume that people that troll would say "No, it's just really funny, lol etc." And if you also disagree, I don't really want to talk about this issue with you as in my personal opinion, you'd be kind of a jerk.
Yes, the above does imply that people that don't agree with me on this issue are jerks in my eyes. Trolling has no place in discussion and debate.
On December 06 2009 15:05 AttackZerg wrote: I love bisu fans crying.
Boxer and fantasy fans I respect but most of bisu's fans show such little understanding of starcraft that it drives real fans (who actually understand the game they are watching) to hate the team AND the player.
I think bisu is the best protoss in the history of the game but I love when he loses stupidly and his fans have a million stupid reasons for why it happend.
(oystein I still love you)
thats a pretty dumb reason to hate a team and the player
Hard to hate any player at all then.
Let's have all starcraft fans not say anything bad about a player.
On December 06 2009 17:15 Camlito wrote: Hard to hate any player at all then.
Let's have all starcraft fans not say anything bad about a player.
I don't see anything wrong with that. I harbor no ill will against any player.
A good game is good, regardless of who won or lost.
On December 06 2009 17:19 JohnColtrane wrote: what about if the player is absurdly BM, plays a very boring style or has a shit haircut?
Absurdly BM - Yeah, that's a reason to dislike a player, but I can't think of any high-profile player that actually is BM enough for me to care.
Boring style (lol Canata) - I won't like watching his games, but I don't care whether he wins or loses. The game's going to be boring either way, and him losing doesn't change that. I suppose you could make the argument that you'd want them to lose in an individual league so we get more exciting games in later rounds.
Shit haircut - I don't pretend I'm any judge of haircuts, so I'm not going to judge someone based on this.
On December 06 2009 15:05 AttackZerg wrote: I love bisu fans crying.
Boxer and fantasy fans I respect but most of bisu's fans show such little understanding of starcraft that it drives real fans (who actually understand the game they are watching) to hate the team AND the player.
I think bisu is the best protoss in the history of the game but I love when he loses stupidly and his fans have a million stupid reasons for why it happend.
(oystein I still love you)
thats a pretty dumb reason to hate a team and the player
Hard to hate any player at all then.
Let's have all starcraft fans not say anything bad about a player.
what about if the player is absurdly BM, plays a very boring style or has a shit haircut?
On December 06 2009 16:57 Avidkeystamper wrote: In reality, everyone says some maps are hard, but others go on and talk about how they'll try and make their victories better. Bisu doesn't, always focusing on whatever obstacle the map brings.
This is true, but again, I'm curious as to why people consider this enough of a flaw to hate someone for. It takes a lot more than a few irritating comments for me to actively wish ill will on someone, particularly if they're someone I've never met.
And yeah, BanZu, take a chill pill, or go to bed. This discussion really doesn't call for being so hotheaded (particularly since you're lending to Julmust's point).
By itself, it's not, but Bisu has a really bad habit of not putting his money where his mouth is. He's a good player, sure, but he talks about how good he is then gets eliminated in single/double elimination rounds by straight up playing worse than his opponents or not considering he could be cheesed. I have respect for the dude's raw ability, but he really is arrogant as far as thinking he'll just 'win' whenever he sits down for a game. As such, he's fairly easy to hate by progamer standards, especially when compared to the other 'top' Protoss' attitude.
On December 06 2009 17:22 Niton wrote: By itself, it's not, but Bisu has a really bad habit of not putting his money where his mouth is. He's a good player, sure, but he talks about how good he is then gets eliminated in single/double elimination rounds by straight up playing worse than his opponents or not considering he could be cheesed. I have respect for the dude's raw ability, but he really is arrogant as far as thinking he'll just 'win' whenever he sits down for a game. As such, he's fairly easy to hate by progamer standards, especially when compared to the other 'top' Protoss' attitude.
Source?
Not trying to discredit you, but I can't remember any recent instance of this (I do remember old interviews like that, but I chalked them up to Bisu being awkward and bad at interview--both acknowledged by his team members and foreigners who have met him), though I'll admit that's because I wasn't paying attention for it. There was the pre-IEF interview, but in all fairness, in Korean v Foreigner events, that level of overconfidence is sort of justified.
On December 06 2009 16:57 Avidkeystamper wrote: In reality, everyone says some maps are hard, but others go on and talk about how they'll try and make their victories better. Bisu doesn't, always focusing on whatever obstacle the map brings.
This is true, but again, I'm curious as to why people consider this enough of a flaw to hate someone for. It takes a lot more than a few irritating comments for me to actively wish ill will on someone, particularly if they're someone I've never met.
And yeah, BanZu, take a chill pill, or go to bed. This discussion really doesn't call for being so hotheaded (particularly since you're lending to Julmust's point).
By itself, it's not, but Bisu has a really bad habit of not putting his money where his mouth is. He's a good player, sure, but he talks about how good he is then gets eliminated in single/double elimination rounds by straight up playing worse than his opponents or not considering he could be cheesed. I have respect for the dude's raw ability, but he really is arrogant as far as thinking he'll just 'win' whenever he sits down for a game. As such, he's fairly easy to hate by progamer standards, especially when compared to the other 'top' Protoss' attitude.
what about saying shit like "i will destroy everyone in 2009"
that sounds pretty arrogant to me
wheres the fucken hate for that.. instead u kidz just jizz all over that shit
On December 06 2009 16:57 Avidkeystamper wrote: In reality, everyone says some maps are hard, but others go on and talk about how they'll try and make their victories better. Bisu doesn't, always focusing on whatever obstacle the map brings.
This is true, but again, I'm curious as to why people consider this enough of a flaw to hate someone for. It takes a lot more than a few irritating comments for me to actively wish ill will on someone, particularly if they're someone I've never met.
And yeah, BanZu, take a chill pill, or go to bed. This discussion really doesn't call for being so hotheaded (particularly since you're lending to Julmust's point).
By itself, it's not, but Bisu has a really bad habit of not putting his money where his mouth is. He's a good player, sure, but he talks about how good he is then gets eliminated in single/double elimination rounds by straight up playing worse than his opponents or not considering he could be cheesed. I have respect for the dude's raw ability, but he really is arrogant as far as thinking he'll just 'win' whenever he sits down for a game. As such, he's fairly easy to hate by progamer standards, especially when compared to the other 'top' Protoss' attitude.
what about saying shit like "i will destroy everyone in 2009"
that sounds pretty arrogant to me
wheres the fucken hate for that.. instead u kidz just jizz all over that shit
Because he turns to the crowd and says it in English after winning a tournament? Context is everything.
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
so i cant call you insecure because you had a hissy fit in one comment? its obvious you have problems dealing with other people saying bad shit about beloved bisu
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
so i cant call you insecure because you had a hissy fit in one comment? its obvious you have problems dealing with other people saying bad shit about beloved bisu
Uh exactly. It's a pretty big leap of faith to say something like that based off of one comment.
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
so i cant call you insecure because you had a hissy fit in one comment? its obvious you have problems dealing with other people saying bad shit about beloved bisu
Uh exactly. It's a pretty big leap of faith to say something like that based off of one comment.
you said something insecure and i called you insecure. if you said something stupid, i'd have called you stupid.
Bisu doesn't seem arrogant just very socially awkward and an extreme introvert. You can see this in that video that follows the MBC Hero team around during their free time. While everyone is more or less getting into the activities, Bisu is in a corner clearly out of the loop.
He's clearly the least eloquent member of the Taek Bang Lee Ssang quad, and a lot of other prominent progamers in my opinion as well, and you'd be kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
On December 06 2009 18:10 Redshirt wrote: Bisu doesn't seem arrogant just very socially awkward and an extreme introvert. You can see this in that video that follows the MBC Hero team around during their free time. While everyone is more or less getting into the activities, Bisu is in a corner clearly out of the loop.
He's clearly the least eloquent member of the Taek Bang Lee Ssang quad, and a lot of other prominent progamers in my opinion as well, and you'd be kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Exactly. Given that we have to go through transcription and translation of the interviews, a lot of the nuance of what gets said is lost. It's hard to pin down what he says as genuine arrogance rather than insecurity and awkwardness, and there's definitely not enough certainty to make judgments about him with it.
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
so i cant call you insecure because you had a hissy fit in one comment? its obvious you have problems dealing with other people saying bad shit about beloved bisu
Uh exactly. It's a pretty big leap of faith to say something like that based off of one comment.
you said something insecure and i called you insecure. if you said something stupid, i'd have called you stupid.
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
so i cant call you insecure because you had a hissy fit in one comment? its obvious you have problems dealing with other people saying bad shit about beloved bisu
Uh exactly. It's a pretty big leap of faith to say something like that based off of one comment.
you said something insecure and i called you insecure. if you said something stupid, i'd have called you stupid.
So if I trip once I'm a clumsy person?
GRATE LOGIK U GOT DERE U FINE FELOW
if you had balance, you wouldnt have tripped
in the same way, you'd be able to handle yourself better if someone made fun of your favourite player, without going all internet warrior
On December 06 2009 17:22 Niton wrote: By itself, it's not, but Bisu has a really bad habit of not putting his money where his mouth is. He's a good player, sure, but he talks about how good he is then gets eliminated in single/double elimination rounds by straight up playing worse than his opponents or not considering he could be cheesed. I have respect for the dude's raw ability, but he really is arrogant as far as thinking he'll just 'win' whenever he sits down for a game. As such, he's fairly easy to hate by progamer standards, especially when compared to the other 'top' Protoss' attitude.
Source?
Not trying to discredit you, but I can't remember any recent instance of this (I do remember old interviews like that, but I chalked them up to Bisu being awkward and bad at interview--both acknowledged by his team members and foreigners who have met him), though I'll admit that's because I wasn't paying attention for it. There was the pre-IEF interview, but in all fairness, in Korean v Foreigner events, that level of overconfidence is sort of justified.
It's just something that i've observed. When I watch Bisu lose to a "lower-level" gamer, it feels like he's not giving it his all. It's something that all of the top tier seems to do once in a while (Jaedong completely not microing his mutas in a battle, Flash 14cc etc.), but even though it gets overblown, Bisu seems to suffer for it more. It can be hard to say if it's just nerves, but I really feel like a lot of Bisu's woes as far as early elimination are from underestimating his opponents. Look what happened last MSL - he started trying to get fancy and let Iris get back into a won game and instead we got fucking KWANRO in the finals. Iris played the game of his life, but Bisu really let him back into the game by underestimating him. That's what I mean by being arrogant.
The more recent interviews seem to show him toned down a lot from how he used to be, though. The quote below's from the All-Star MVP interview, all of the more recent stuff is actually really mellow, talking about how he thinks he's the worst of the Taek-Bang-LeeSsang quartet and stuff.
also, re: "OMG LOADED QUESTIONS":
- How are you preparing for 09-10 season? ▲ The new maps are very bad for protoss, but they are being changed so I think I'll wait. I hope they make good maps. I'm trying my best so I can get good results again next season. I didn't do too well in the 1st round last season, but I'm practicing so that doesn't happen again.
On December 06 2009 16:57 Avidkeystamper wrote: In reality, everyone says some maps are hard, but others go on and talk about how they'll try and make their victories better. Bisu doesn't, always focusing on whatever obstacle the map brings.
This is true, but again, I'm curious as to why people consider this enough of a flaw to hate someone for. It takes a lot more than a few irritating comments for me to actively wish ill will on someone, particularly if they're someone I've never met.
And yeah, BanZu, take a chill pill, or go to bed. This discussion really doesn't call for being so hotheaded (particularly since you're lending to Julmust's point).
By itself, it's not, but Bisu has a really bad habit of not putting his money where his mouth is. He's a good player, sure, but he talks about how good he is then gets eliminated in single/double elimination rounds by straight up playing worse than his opponents or not considering he could be cheesed. I have respect for the dude's raw ability, but he really is arrogant as far as thinking he'll just 'win' whenever he sits down for a game. As such, he's fairly easy to hate by progamer standards, especially when compared to the other 'top' Protoss' attitude.
what about saying shit like "i will destroy everyone in 2009"
that sounds pretty arrogant to me
wheres the fucken hate for that.. instead u kidz just jizz all over that shit
Because he turns to the crowd and says it in English after winning a tournament? Context is everything.
You mean in the same year he was getting a 46.30% win rate in the entire year, being utterly humiliated by Firebathero on a regular basis? And his announcement was about how he'd destroy everyone in the next year, when his win rate went DOWN to 45.83%?
The same player who, in his pre GOMTV MSL Season 1 final interview, said, "My opponent's mistake was picking Protoss"?
Just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same player.
I don't have any issues with Savior and all, but to say that Savior had no arrogance is an overstatement.
This thread shows just how much anti Bisu hate there is. NEWS FLASH: Bisu didn't play last night! It'd be like me going to a KHAN thread where Stork didn't play and saying "lol dinotoss is slumping." At the least have the decency to flame Bisu in a separate thread or in a thread about a tournament where he ACTUALLY plays. Some of you guys have even admitted it, you guys bash Bisu just to troll the SKT fans. That's rather offensive, especially when Bisu has done BASICALLY NOTHING last night.
If you have a problem with SKT1, then bash their coach.. Bash Fantasy, and Canata, and the players WHO PLAYED. This thread isn't about SKT1 hate, it's specifically about the match last night, and I really don't see a reason to include trash talk about a player who didn't actually play.
This thread is pretty lame now; in one corner we have a malicious group of smug haters (including myself) and in the other we have some butthurt fanboys who whine about how unfair the hate is.
On December 06 2009 23:40 Jackal03 wrote: i have nothing against bisu, the real player of skt that i really don't like is canata (he's so boring...).
but i find it funny when skt loses because of the nerd rage that happens
Really, from all the interviews and posts by people who have actually met Fantasy, Bisu and Canata, the evidence pile is pretty large that Canata has so much more personality than Fantasy or Bisu combined.
second 0-3 in a row means that whole SKT team is in a slump. Some1 has to win a PL match to bounce back to their level. P.S. And haters should cut all the BS. Especially pathetic arguments of "understanding the game" and judging others with blindless self praising.
On December 06 2009 21:40 Niton wrote: It's just something that i've observed. When I watch Bisu lose to a "lower-level" gamer, it feels like he's not giving it his all. It's something that all of the top tier seems to do once in a while (Jaedong completely not microing his mutas in a battle, Flash 14cc etc.), but even though it gets overblown, Bisu seems to suffer for it more. It can be hard to say if it's just nerves, but I really feel like a lot of Bisu's woes as far as early elimination are from underestimating his opponents. Look what happened last MSL - he started trying to get fancy and let Iris get back into a won game and instead we got fucking KWANRO in the finals. Iris played the game of his life, but Bisu really let him back into the game by underestimating him. That's what I mean by being arrogant.
Eh. It still feels very hand-wavy to me and I don't exactly feel comfortable judging someone based off a hunch. If you saw the FPView of the Iris game, you'd notice that Bisu was slowing down. That's just as likely to be plain burnout as it is to be him relaxing and dicking around in a "won game".
On December 06 2009 21:40 Niton wrote: also, re: "OMG LOADED QUESTIONS":
- How are you preparing for 09-10 season? ▲ The new maps are very bad for protoss, but they are being changed so I think I'll wait. I hope they make good maps. I'm trying my best so I can get good results again next season. I didn't do too well in the 1st round last season, but I'm practicing so that doesn't happen again.
On December 06 2009 16:57 Avidkeystamper wrote: In reality, everyone says some maps are hard, but others go on and talk about how they'll try and make their victories better. Bisu doesn't, always focusing on whatever obstacle the map brings.
On December 06 2009 09:44 Atrioc wrote: Moderator Message: Streams will be posted as soon as they are available. If you whine / complain / keep asking for streams, you will be quickly issued a 2-day temp ban.
User Message: FakeSteves complaining about posts that contain only an image will be issued a 2 month Razer TSL.
On December 07 2009 02:59 qrs wrote: Didn't like the Hwaseung House this time, because "that would be bogus of me" does not make sense with any meaning of the word "bogus" that I know.
On December 06 2009 16:57 Avidkeystamper wrote: In reality, everyone says some maps are hard, but others go on and talk about how they'll try and make their victories better. Bisu doesn't, always focusing on whatever obstacle the map brings.
This is true, but again, I'm curious as to why people consider this enough of a flaw to hate someone for. It takes a lot more than a few irritating comments for me to actively wish ill will on someone, particularly if they're someone I've never met.
And yeah, BanZu, take a chill pill, or go to bed. This discussion really doesn't call for being so hotheaded (particularly since you're lending to Julmust's point).
By itself, it's not, but Bisu has a really bad habit of not putting his money where his mouth is. He's a good player, sure, but he talks about how good he is then gets eliminated in single/double elimination rounds by straight up playing worse than his opponents or not considering he could be cheesed. I have respect for the dude's raw ability, but he really is arrogant as far as thinking he'll just 'win' whenever he sits down for a game. As such, he's fairly easy to hate by progamer standards, especially when compared to the other 'top' Protoss' attitude.
what about saying shit like "i will destroy everyone in 2009"
that sounds pretty arrogant to me
wheres the fucken hate for that.. instead u kidz just jizz all over that shit
Because he turns to the crowd and says it in English after winning a tournament? Context is everything.
You mean in the same year he was getting a 46.30% win rate in the entire year, being utterly humiliated by Firebathero on a regular basis? And his announcement was about how he'd destroy everyone in the next year, when his win rate went DOWN to 45.83%?
The same player who, in his pre GOMTV MSL Season 1 final interview, said, "My opponent's mistake was picking Protoss"?
Just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same player.
I don't have any issues with Savior and all, but to say that Savior had no arrogance is an overstatement.
This thread shows just how much anti Bisu hate there is. NEWS FLASH: Bisu didn't play last night! It'd be like me going to a KHAN thread where Stork didn't play and saying "lol dinotoss is slumping." At the least have the decency to flame Bisu in a separate thread or in a thread about a tournament where he ACTUALLY plays. Some of you guys have even admitted it, you guys bash Bisu just to troll the SKT fans. That's rather offensive, especially when Bisu has done BASICALLY NOTHING last night.
If you have a problem with SKT1, then bash their coach.. Bash Fantasy, and Canata, and the players WHO PLAYED. This thread isn't about SKT1 hate, it's specifically about the match last night, and I really don't see a reason to include trash talk about a player who didn't actually play.
well, it's kinda` ok for savior to be a little arrogant coz that fits him. I know, the world ain`t fair.
On December 07 2009 02:59 qrs wrote: Didn't like the Hwaseung House this time, because "that would be bogus of me" does not make sense with any meaning of the word "bogus" that I know.
I think what he means is that the dictionary definition of "bogus" doesn't quite fit the context, and that stretching the definition might kill the joke.
This is the first game BaxteR impressed me. He looked pretty solid, he could have expanded a little more I guess, but after taking Fantasy's natural he had enough economic edge to just mass mutas and win in a head-to-head battle.
On December 07 2009 06:35 Foucault wrote: That hold lurker by Jaedong was pretty lame and game deciding
Not really. Jaedong himself said [interview in Broodwar forum] that it had no impact on the game at all, and I'd trust his judgment ahead of yours or mine. But even without Jaedong's word, just watch the VOD again. Look how many lurkers and lings he had at that time. He was tearing through the natural before the survivors of Canata's army even got back.
Where the fk did all this rage come from lol. Anyway great to see Oz win WITHOUT JAEDONG WINNING 2 GAMES. Second series in a row theyve won like that, and killer is winning. Whats going on lol
On December 06 2009 15:11 TheYango wrote: The question still stands, though. What about Bisu or his play makes it enjoyable to watch him lose?
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
so i cant call you insecure because you had a hissy fit in one comment? its obvious you have problems dealing with other people saying bad shit about beloved bisu
Uh exactly. It's a pretty big leap of faith to say something like that based off of one comment.
you said something insecure and i called you insecure. if you said something stupid, i'd have called you stupid.
So if I trip once I'm a clumsy person?
GRATE LOGIK U GOT DERE U FINE FELOW
if you had balance, you wouldnt have tripped
in the same way, you'd be able to handle yourself better if someone made fun of your favourite player, without going all internet warrior
Wow, seriously, I can't understand your logic.
People slip up. Are you saying that only clumsy people trip? I'm pretty sure that's far from the truth and you know it. You have nothing to back up your first comment.
On December 07 2009 07:28 Heimatloser wrote: i remember round 1 game 1 where ppl said "cj didnt even get to boss stage" after oz going 3:0 without using the dong. guess thats the same this round
Actually, that was Hite. Oz 3-0 Hite without using Jaedong. It was the first match that Oz played in round 1.
And then Oz started sucking, really badly right after that.
To be fair, SKT did reach the Boss stage. It is Oz that failed to reach Bisu, by going 3-0 and achieving an early victory.
The maps comments. When you have Flash of all people making comments that seem to be poking fun at you for your actions, you're a bit of a douchebag.
Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
so i cant call you insecure because you had a hissy fit in one comment? its obvious you have problems dealing with other people saying bad shit about beloved bisu
Uh exactly. It's a pretty big leap of faith to say something like that based off of one comment.
you said something insecure and i called you insecure. if you said something stupid, i'd have called you stupid.
So if I trip once I'm a clumsy person?
GRATE LOGIK U GOT DERE U FINE FELOW
if you had balance, you wouldnt have tripped
in the same way, you'd be able to handle yourself better if someone made fun of your favourite player, without going all internet warrior
Wow, seriously, I can't understand your logic.
People slip up. Are you saying that only clumsy people trip? I'm pretty sure that's far from the truth and you know it. You have nothing to back up your first comment.
oh? you had a sob because someone hated on bisu? i dont see the harm in calling you insecure for acting insecure. you obviously are, otherwise you wouldnt feel the need to make a big long ragey post about it
On December 06 2009 16:44 BanZu wrote: [quote] Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
so i cant call you insecure because you had a hissy fit in one comment? its obvious you have problems dealing with other people saying bad shit about beloved bisu
Uh exactly. It's a pretty big leap of faith to say something like that based off of one comment.
you said something insecure and i called you insecure. if you said something stupid, i'd have called you stupid.
So if I trip once I'm a clumsy person?
GRATE LOGIK U GOT DERE U FINE FELOW
if you had balance, you wouldnt have tripped
in the same way, you'd be able to handle yourself better if someone made fun of your favourite player, without going all internet warrior
Wow, seriously, I can't understand your logic.
People slip up. Are you saying that only clumsy people trip? I'm pretty sure that's far from the truth and you know it. You have nothing to back up your first comment.
oh? you had a sob because someone hated on bisu? i dont see the harm in calling you insecure for acting insecure. you obviously are, otherwise you wouldnt feel the need to make a big long ragey post about it
Insecurity is a feeling of general unease or nervousness that may be triggered by perceiving oneself to be unloved, inadequate or worthless. How does defending someone else make that person insecure? Going after someone else, using illogical but consistent arguments to defend own viewpoints, is a big sign of insecurity. so yeah... if anyone is insecure, Ii's you.
You cannot call a fanboy insecure because he ranted about Bisu(someone else).
It's ok if people hate on Bisu. Hell, I dislike a few players myself and enjoy watching them lose. But when you try to justify your hate, you come off looking like a retard. You don't know anything about these guys and have never hung out with them. All the information you know about most progamers come from a few interviews that mean shit.
It's fun to laugh when a certain team or player loses, but it's so lame watching you fools try to make it seem like some teams or players deserve to lose for whatever made-up reason.
On December 06 2009 16:44 BanZu wrote: [quote] Fucking shit dude, COME FUCKING ON.
Stop bringing up shit about Bisu's comments on maps. This is gone on way too far and far too long. It's one thing to notice it and it's another to bitch about it more than Bisu "bitches" about maps.
It's obvious that everyone complaining about bisu and "maps comments" have a huge issue that they need to deal with, their unreasonable bias. I have read interview answer after interview answer, with NO indication of map bitching only to see dipshit after dipshit go "lol bisu bitching about maps again lololol i'm a fucking idiot". The only people who see his comments as complaints are people who are anti-bisu so if you can get your head out of your ass you should be able to tell that Bisu doesn't complain about maps. You ask a fucking question, you get a fucking honest opinion.
Fuck, I've had enough of this fucking bullshit.
holy shit you're insecure
why do you have to have a temper tantrum when somebody says something negative about a player you like? why cant you just ignore it, or at least stop flipping out like a clown?
The one straw that broke the mule's back.
Everything you say was based on one comment. Lol good job.
so i cant call you insecure because you had a hissy fit in one comment? its obvious you have problems dealing with other people saying bad shit about beloved bisu
Uh exactly. It's a pretty big leap of faith to say something like that based off of one comment.
you said something insecure and i called you insecure. if you said something stupid, i'd have called you stupid.
So if I trip once I'm a clumsy person?
GRATE LOGIK U GOT DERE U FINE FELOW
if you had balance, you wouldnt have tripped
in the same way, you'd be able to handle yourself better if someone made fun of your favourite player, without going all internet warrior
Wow, seriously, I can't understand your logic.
People slip up. Are you saying that only clumsy people trip? I'm pretty sure that's far from the truth and you know it. You have nothing to back up your first comment.
oh? you had a sob because someone hated on bisu? i dont see the harm in calling you insecure for acting insecure. you obviously are, otherwise you wouldnt feel the need to make a big long ragey post about it
So if I trip once you'll say I'm a clumsy person?
Answer me that.
And yea, if someone acts up once you don't have much of a basis to make a judgment call on them. To argue that I'm insecure because of one post is absolute BS. You have no idea who I am and what I'm like. -_-
BISU! you didn't even play, yet you are all the rage in this thread! you also have the sexiest gaming name in the business!
OH GAWD I LOVE YOU BISU!! Even though protoss was the least recognized and least established race, you still proved yourself as god among mortals.
If SKT is the New York Yankees of E-sports, you are it's Alex Rodriguez. When it's all said and done, you have the championship! and you probably make more than any other player because of it!
On December 07 2009 09:32 ProbeSaturation wrote: OH GAWD I LoveYOU Bisu!! Even though protoss was the least recognized and least established race, you still proved yourself as god among mortals.
Guys come on do we really have to 'hate' on player or something. Of course there are some players that I don't like more than the other (Hyuk, I don't like his arrogance just because he won a few games and saying that he will make it far but I don't 'hate' him.) To be honest I don't see why people hate Bisu because he did nothing bad. Yes he blamed map imbalance but didn't we all done that?
On December 07 2009 09:32 ProbeSaturation wrote: OH GAWD I LoveYOU Bisu!! Even though protoss was the least recognized and least established race, you still proved yourself as god among mortals.
On December 07 2009 09:17 Slow Motion wrote: It's fun to laugh when a certain team or player loses, but it's so lame watching you fools try to make it seem like some teams or players deserve to lose for whatever made-up reason.
On December 07 2009 11:38 Xiphos wrote: Guys come on do we really have to 'hate' on player or something. Of course there are some players that I don't like more than the other (Hyuk, I don't like his arrogance just because he won a few games and saying that he will make it far but I don't 'hate' him.) To be honest I don't see why people hate Bisu because he did nothing bad. Yes he blamed map imbalance but didn't we all done that?
But that's the whole problem... everyone is blowing this whole blaming map imbalance issue out of proportion.
Even the smallest mention about a map gets people all riled up about Bisu "bitching" about maps when it's nothing close to that. No matter how many times people point out that it's not even a complaint, there will be an idiot who just doesn't get it.
Player bias and unreasonable hatred is a huge source of arguments in many threads.
This result was so awesome. My favorite team, which hasn't been playing up to form this season, beats my most hated team, which has been running hot, 3-0. It doesn't get any better!
On December 07 2009 11:38 Xiphos wrote: Guys come on do we really have to 'hate' on player or something.
Yes. It makes watching the games that much more fun.
I've found that, even if you don't understand the sport in question, it's a lot more interesting if you pick a side and route for them. Similarly, picking a side and routing against them works too.
It's no real fun to champion a hero if you can't demonize a villain.
On December 07 2009 12:34 NicolBolas wrote: Yes. It makes watching the games that much more fun.
I've found that, even if you don't understand the sport in question, it's a lot more interesting if you pick a side and route for them. Similarly, picking a side and routing against them works too.
It's no real fun to champion a hero if you can't demonize a villain.
I find that a load of horseshit. I can't think of any player that I hate, and I enjoy watching Starcraft just fine. As far as "championing a hero" and "demonizing a villain", this is the real world. Contests of skill aren't battles between good and evil. There are winners and losers, but that doesn't mean that some winners or losers deserve less respect, or should be villainized. Sure, schadenfreude is completely normal, but to try and say it's something that *should* be done is sort of out of line, IMO.
Not hating a player in no way limits your ability to enjoy watching Starcraft.
GOGO BISU! you are the best player because you have the highest salary out of all players!
You are worth more than jaedong! that is for sure! You demand the best price and teams are willing to pay it because only you are worth so much! KTY! fighting against the odds, playing the least accomplished race and overcoming all odds.
You win, and you barely work up a sweat. No one else does it like you!
fantasy losing is the only upset here. I don't know why he used mech this time, when his mnm usage has gotten much better lately, maybe because he likes to bring some variation into his game or whatever. Besides t1's lineup (lack of BeSt and yes, Hyuk who's still their n1 zerg despite his losing streak)looked kinda like the one you want to throw against ACE to give your scrubs some playtime. Props for JD for pulling some really nice shit there with his drones Oz still sucks balls though
On December 07 2009 17:19 khersai wrote: fantasy losing is the only upset here. I don't know why he used mech this time, when his mnm usage has gotten much better lately, maybe because he likes to bring some variation into his game or whatever. Besides t1's lineup (lack of BeSt and yes, Hyuk who's still their n1 zerg despite his losing streak)looked kinda like the one you want to throw against ACE to give your scrubs some playtime. Props for JD for pulling some really nice shit there with his drones Oz still sucks balls though
The last line is going to get a lot of people angry. I think you should shut up and take it out now before this thread goes crazy again.
On December 07 2009 13:11 cokencheese wrote: I'm just glad Fantasy lost.
For a dude who has won nothing but silvers he is even more arrogant than Bisu.
I really don't get that for two reasons. 1. In the pro interviews every one here whines of one out of two things: either the Koreans are very humbel and just gives generic responses. Then most people think they boring. Or they give some kind of personal respons and say what they acctually think/ hope about their performance. Then people think they are arrogant. wtf?
2. Why is everyone hating on Fantasy? As a JD fan and a zerg fan i should have lots of reasons to hate him, but the truth is that he is one of the most interesting players to watch. And I think that everyone that knows something about the game got to agree with me here.
On December 07 2009 13:11 cokencheese wrote: I'm just glad Fantasy lost.
For a dude who has won nothing but silvers he is even more arrogant than Bisu.
I really don't get that for two reasons. 1. In the pro interviews every one here whines of one out of two things: either the Koreans are very humbel and just gives generic responses. Then most people think they boring. Or they give some kind of personal respons and say what they acctually think/ hope about their performance. Then people think they are arrogant. wtf?
2. Why is everyone hating on Fantasy? As a JD fan and a zerg fan i should have lots of reasons to hate him, but the truth is that he is one of the most interesting players to watch. And I think that everyone that knows something about the game got to agree with me here.
Sure, he's had some considerable success, but what irks me is that he seems to have let his own hype get in his head. In interviews he talks about fully expecting to win entire leagues and then dropping out in "unexpected places" (like Jaedong, Bisu, Stork = all of whom he isn't exactly the favorite against), and says things like "I will teach Stork to get intimidated by me" in All-Stars. Fantasy is good and entertaining, but he isn't really qualified to talk shit yet. If Bisu is getting arrogant, it's fine considering how much success he's had (though he shouldn't let himself lose because of it). If a guy like Fantasy who doesn't even have a 60% win rate goes around thinking that he's the shit, then that's a bit different (and I also happen to think that it's affecting his recent performance).
EDIT: Aso, IMO.
I like watching Fantasy play, and I don't take his position as Boxer-Oov's apprentice against him, but he is still very inconsistent and he shouldn't think of himself too highly as of yet. Also, I would like to mention that I could't recall a single impressive Fantasy interview.
On December 07 2009 13:11 cokencheese wrote: I'm just glad Fantasy lost.
For a dude who has won nothing but silvers he is even more arrogant than Bisu.
I really don't get that for two reasons. 1. In the pro interviews every one here whines of one out of two things: either the Koreans are very humbel and just gives generic responses. Then most people think they boring. Or they give some kind of personal respons and say what they acctually think/ hope about their performance. Then people think they are arrogant. wtf?
2. Why is everyone hating on Fantasy? As a JD fan and a zerg fan i should have lots of reasons to hate him, but the truth is that he is one of the most interesting players to watch. And I think that everyone that knows something about the game got to agree with me here.
Sure, he's had some considerable success, but what irks me is that he seems to have let his own hype get in his head. In interviews he talks about fully expecting to win entire leagues and then dropping out in "unexpected places" (like Jaedong, Bisu, Stork = all of whom he isn't exactly the favorite against), and says things like "I will teach Stork to get intimidated by me" in All-Stars. Fantasy is good and entertaining, but he isn't really qualified to talk shit yet. If Bisu is getting arrogant, it's fine considering how much success he's had (though he shouldn't let himself lose because of it). If a guy like Fantasy who doesn't even have a 60% win rate goes around thinking that he's the shit, then that's a bit different (and I also happen to think that it's affecting his recent performance).
I like watching Fantasy play, and I don't take his position as Boxer-Oov's apprentice against him, but he is still very inconsistent and he shouldn't think of himself too highly as of yet. Also, I would like to mention that I could't recall a single impressive Fantasy interview.
Tell me, how do you understand the tone that Fantasy speaks in?
I spoke plenty of shit and smack-talk to my friend about the 110h hurdles for Track and Field , but we both knew that I was joking. This past year was his 3rd year and only my first year of hurdling so it's obviously just in fun and games. How do you know that this isn't the same case with Fantasy and Stork? Despite their not being a huge skill difference like in my case, smack-talk is FOR FUN. ZOMG I can't believe it. It's kind of like when Magma called the 6 dragons the 6 acorns or whatever and ended up getting knocked out by Bisu.
Also, what if Fantasy is just trying to please the crowd or boost his confidence by placing high expectations upon himself? Just because you like to set your expectations low so you don't end up QQing over your failures doesn't mean other people like to do that as well.
On December 07 2009 13:11 cokencheese wrote: I'm just glad Fantasy lost.
For a dude who has won nothing but silvers he is even more arrogant than Bisu.
I really don't get that for two reasons. 1. In the pro interviews every one here whines of one out of two things: either the Koreans are very humbel and just gives generic responses. Then most people think they boring. Or they give some kind of personal respons and say what they acctually think/ hope about their performance. Then people think they are arrogant. wtf?
2. Why is everyone hating on Fantasy? As a JD fan and a zerg fan i should have lots of reasons to hate him, but the truth is that he is one of the most interesting players to watch. And I think that everyone that knows something about the game got to agree with me here.
Sure, he's had some considerable success, but what irks me is that he seems to have let his own hype get in his head. In interviews he talks about fully expecting to win entire leagues and then dropping out in "unexpected places" (like Jaedong, Bisu, Stork = all of whom he isn't exactly the favorite against), and says things like "I will teach Stork to get intimidated by me" in All-Stars. Fantasy is good and entertaining, but he isn't really qualified to talk shit yet. If Bisu is getting arrogant, it's fine considering how much success he's had (though he shouldn't let himself lose because of it). If a guy like Fantasy who doesn't even have a 60% win rate goes around thinking that he's the shit, then that's a bit different (and I also happen to think that it's affecting his recent performance).
I like watching Fantasy play, and I don't take his position as Boxer-Oov's apprentice against him, but he is still very inconsistent and he shouldn't think of himself too highly as of yet. Also, I would like to mention that I could't recall a single impressive Fantasy interview.
Tell me, how do you understand the tone that Fantasy speaks in?
I talk plenty of shit and smack-talk to my friend about hurdles, but we both know that I'm just joking. How do you know that this isn't the same case with Fantasy and Stork?
Also, what if Fantasy is just trying to please the crowd or boost his confidence by placing high expectations upon himself? Just because you like to set your expectations low so you don't end up QQing over your failures doesn't mean other people like to do that as well.
I enjoy talking shit and being a windbag too, but I manage not to get misunderstood even by people who hardly know me. It's actually a huge part of my charms too, I make a lot of friends by knowing how to be pleasantly arrogant in person.
I understand that what you are saying about Fantasy could very well be true. If it is, then he should probably try to project his intentions better, from what I can see. It's quite obvious that he isn't a very popular pro-gamer.
I am Terran Fan, so I am Fantasy fan too... Because he is in SK T1, same team as Boxer. And he is also an interesting player to watch! I find his style is very mechanical and robot... never mind, I am bad at expressing myself..
Anyway, I put killer and hiya at my anti-team, support SKT zerg. Because I thought SKTelcom must be up to something to put him on the matchup!! To do something incredible!
It was not a big upset when Hiya win (I lose 5 points) and Skt Zerg lose (Lose another 2 points)
But killer win! Which is the guy Boxer nuked and he won against Fantasy! Make me lose another 5 points!~ Total lost is 10 points!!! I mean 12 points....
Biggest upset!!!! *Cries*
By the way, I just like Fantasy expression when something big happens... he sallows saliva *Gulp* and his adam apple's moving
*EDIT* I forgot to mention, Bisu lost, making it 3 - 0 .... Biggest upset for Round 2 first week.
On December 07 2009 13:11 cokencheese wrote: I'm just glad Fantasy lost.
For a dude who has won nothing but silvers he is even more arrogant than Bisu.
I really don't get that for two reasons. 1. In the pro interviews every one here whines of one out of two things: either the Koreans are very humbel and just gives generic responses. Then most people think they boring. Or they give some kind of personal respons and say what they acctually think/ hope about their performance. Then people think they are arrogant. wtf?
2. Why is everyone hating on Fantasy? As a JD fan and a zerg fan i should have lots of reasons to hate him, but the truth is that he is one of the most interesting players to watch. And I think that everyone that knows something about the game got to agree with me here.
Sure, he's had some considerable success, but what irks me is that he seems to have let his own hype get in his head. In interviews he talks about fully expecting to win entire leagues and then dropping out in "unexpected places" (like Jaedong, Bisu, Stork = all of whom he isn't exactly the favorite against), and says things like "I will teach Stork to get intimidated by me" in All-Stars. Fantasy is good and entertaining, but he isn't really qualified to talk shit yet. If Bisu is getting arrogant, it's fine considering how much success he's had (though he shouldn't let himself lose because of it). If a guy like Fantasy who doesn't even have a 60% win rate goes around thinking that he's the shit, then that's a bit different (and I also happen to think that it's affecting his recent performance).
EDIT: Aso, IMO.
I like watching Fantasy play, and I don't take his position as Boxer-Oov's apprentice against him, but he is still very inconsistent and he shouldn't think of himself too highly as of yet. Also, I would like to mention that I could't recall a single impressive Fantasy interview.
The only one player that I really hate for that reason is FBH. It's not like some one will find Fantasy's trash talk offensive. It's just a show. You just take any excuse to not like him
lol this ahs became a metaphysics talk... on that subject the only player i hate is FBH, but i dont find any plasure seeing him lose, also he is in one of my favorite teams..
On December 07 2009 13:11 cokencheese wrote: I'm just glad Fantasy lost.
For a dude who has won nothing but silvers he is even more arrogant than Bisu.
I really don't get that for two reasons. 1. In the pro interviews every one here whines of one out of two things: either the Koreans are very humbel and just gives generic responses. Then most people think they boring. Or they give some kind of personal respons and say what they acctually think/ hope about their performance. Then people think they are arrogant. wtf?
2. Why is everyone hating on Fantasy? As a JD fan and a zerg fan i should have lots of reasons to hate him, but the truth is that he is one of the most interesting players to watch. And I think that everyone that knows something about the game got to agree with me here.
Sure, he's had some considerable success, but what irks me is that he seems to have let his own hype get in his head. In interviews he talks about fully expecting to win entire leagues and then dropping out in "unexpected places" (like Jaedong, Bisu, Stork = all of whom he isn't exactly the favorite against), and says things like "I will teach Stork to get intimidated by me" in All-Stars. Fantasy is good and entertaining, but he isn't really qualified to talk shit yet. If Bisu is getting arrogant, it's fine considering how much success he's had (though he shouldn't let himself lose because of it). If a guy like Fantasy who doesn't even have a 60% win rate goes around thinking that he's the shit, then that's a bit different (and I also happen to think that it's affecting his recent performance).
EDIT: Aso, IMO.
I like watching Fantasy play, and I don't take his position as Boxer-Oov's apprentice against him, but he is still very inconsistent and he shouldn't think of himself too highly as of yet. Also, I would like to mention that I could't recall a single impressive Fantasy interview.
The only one player that I really hate for that reason is FBH. It's not like some one will find Fantasy's trash talk offensive. It's just a show. You just take any excuse to not like him
On December 08 2009 04:00 Cloud wrote: I'd rather have a guy that speaks his mind and is an asshole. Than some hypocrite that boasts just 'for the fun of it'.
I think its pretty ridiculous all the small things people get worked over. go.go builds a CC next to someone's base, FBH humps some air, a zerg does some CC infesting, and then some people go nuts with rage. WTF is the big deal??? That is something I will never understand. The only used argument I hear is that its really BM. It's not, maybe a tiny bit, but really?????? I want someone to explain to me how a manner hatch or CC is rude in words.
You know you are way to into this when you feel anger and hate over some in game BM or ceremonies.
On December 07 2009 18:45 cokencheese wrote: I enjoy talking shit and being a windbag too, but I manage not to get misunderstood even by people who hardly know me. It's actually a huge part of my charms too, I make a lot of friends by knowing how to be pleasantly arrogant in person.
I understand that what you are saying about Fantasy could very well be true. If it is, then he should probably try to project his intentions better, from what I can see. It's quite obvious that he isn't a very popular pro-gamer.
You're reading a translation of a transcription of an interview. Sure, when you're TALKING to people who hardly know you, they don't think you're being arrogant, but how do you know that if someone wrote down what you said, and then translated it to Korean, that a random Korean person reading it wouldn't think you're arrogant?
Quite frankly, I'd trust the opinion of someone who can actually understand the straight Korean (not just the words being said, but also the nuances of how its being said) more than an interview that's lost it twice over. And I don't see any of the translation crew stepping in to talk about Bisu's arrogance.
This all started because TheYango asked why people hate programers, he cannot comprehend this because it has not affected him enough because SKT usually rape shit up. I'm referencing the very existence of your debate, not its contents.
Look, not all SKT fans are insolent, snide, thin-skinned, and idiotic. But even a cursory tour of the LR thread for the last Proleague grand finals proves that there are enough of them who are insolent, snide, thin-skinned, and idiotic for them to gain a reputation, however unjust it may seem to you, as being insolent, snide, thin-skinned, and idiotic. So either you keep complaining and make the image of T1 fans look even worse, or you just man up and accept that a certain degree of gloating comes with a decisive defeat of a team as talented, respected, and dripping with arrogance as SKT1. You know, "taking one for the team."
On December 08 2009 08:04 EvoChamber wrote: Look, not all SKT fans are insolent, snide, thin-skinned, and idiotic. But even a cursory tour of the LR thread for the last Proleague grand finals proves that there are enough of them who are insolent, snide, thin-skinned, and idiotic for them to gain a reputation, however unjust it may seem to you, as being insolent, snide, thin-skinned, and idiotic. So either you keep complaining and make the image of T1 fans look even worse, or you just man up and accept that a certain degree of gloating comes with a decisive defeat of a team as talented, respected, and dripping with arrogance as SKT1. You know, "taking one for the team."
Did you see the stuff Oz fans were saying after Jaedong's match with Effort in the Oz vs. CJ playoff thread?
Every team has its haters and trash talkers. Don't chalk it up to just SKT1 fans, because there are haters in every single team. I can name a few TL members off the top of my head who have Oz tags who troll and flame other users on a regular basis.
On December 08 2009 08:03 Avidkeystamper wrote: This all started because TheYango asked why people hate programers, he cannot comprehend this because it has not affected him enough because SKT usually rape shit up. I'm referencing the very existence of your debate, not its contents.
Uh... wait... is it wrong of him to ask something like that?
Every person is going to feel differently about various things. TheYango was asking an earnest question because he, personally, couldn't understand why people felt a certain way.
Like right now, I really can't comprehend why his question seemed to rub off the wrong way for the other people in this thread.
Would it be wrong for me to ask why that happened?
On December 08 2009 08:04 EvoChamber wrote: Look, not all SKT fans are insolent, snide, thin-skinned, and idiotic. But even a cursory tour of the LR thread for the last Proleague grand finals proves that there are enough of them who are insolent, snide, thin-skinned, and idiotic for them to gain a reputation, however unjust it may seem to you, as being insolent, snide, thin-skinned, and idiotic. So either you keep complaining and make the image of T1 fans look even worse, or you just man up and accept that a certain degree of gloating comes with a decisive defeat of a team as talented, respected, and dripping with arrogance as SKT1. You know, "taking one for the team."
Well, the only reason I began posting was because many anti-SKT people posted completely skewed and unreasonably biased posts. Not really so much because of the hatred.
On December 08 2009 08:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: ...and thus there are people to love to see Oz lose. We can accept that. Why can't you?
I love to see CJ and MBCgame lose, but I don't rub it all over their faces when they do. I find it's in poor taste to do so- but this being the internet, you can usually expect someone to do so.
Of course you don't rub it in your faces, we're talking about whether ppl say shit about the losers. Why are you even mentioning yourself? And this happens to every team. Accept it and move on.
On December 06 2009 14:09 d_so wrote: i love watching skt lose
KT fan.
On December 06 2009 14:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Bwahahahahaha owned SKT1, die scum!
STX fan.
On December 06 2009 14:10 alffla wrote: LOOOOOOOOOOL SKT1
CJ fan.
On December 06 2009 14:12 Slow Motion wrote: SKT1 are like the Yankees of starcraft, everyone that's not a T1 fan is so happy right now
Wemade fan.
On December 06 2009 14:24 Holgerius wrote: All games should be recommended IMO. Watching SKT players lose is a treat.
Khan fan.
On December 06 2009 14:38 Gumbo wrote: Hahahahaahahahahahaha, I love when SKT1 get 3-0ed and even MORE when its from my favorite team!
Oz fan.
On December 06 2009 15:05 AttackZerg wrote: I love bisu fans crying.
Boxer and fantasy fans I respect but most of bisu's fans show such little understanding of starcraft that it drives real fans (who actually understand the game they are watching) to hate the team AND the player.
I think bisu is the best protoss in the history of the game but I love when he loses stupidly and his fans have a million stupid reasons for why it happend.
On December 06 2009 15:04 Hinanawi wrote: Personally, I just enjoy seeing Fantasy and Bisu lose. They just happen to be on SKT1, and it's pretty hard for SKT1 to win if both of them lose.
See, then I have to ask why? What have either of those players done to deserve that contempt? They both have produced strong, entertaining games of Starcraft, so in what way to they deserve to lose?
On an unrelated note: fuck my liquibets.
Who said they deserve to lose? We just like to see them do it. Logic does not factor into this at all
CJ fan.
On December 06 2009 16:21 samachking wrote: So when I lose faith completely in Oz + Khan(my 2 favorite teams) in FPL they start raping shit up.
Who cares about FPL anyway? FUCK YEAH OZ RAPING
3-0d
die SKT
Khan fan.
On December 06 2009 16:59 TwoToneTerran wrote: Because SKT is the New York Yankees of progaming, proving that the longest standing and best funded team gets you further than anything else.
People LOVE watching the Yankees lose. They just don't do it a lot.
KT fan.
On December 06 2009 16:59 Julmust wrote: You wanna know WHY people react that way Ecrilon? Cause SKT fans are the funniest when they get butthurt, seriously if you succuessfully manage to troll a SKT fan they'll cry harder and longer then anyone else.
And yes, I do love the fact that SKT lost simply 'cause I don't like the team. I AM ENJOYING THIS!
MBC fan.
On December 06 2009 23:40 Jackal03 wrote: i have nothing against bisu, the real player of skt that i really don't like is canata (he's so boring...).
but i find it funny when skt loses because of the nerd rage that happens
CJ fan.
On December 07 2009 00:00 Holgerius wrote: This thread is pretty lame now; in one corner we have a malicious group of smug haters (including myself) and in the other we have some butthurt fanboys who whine about how unfair the hate is.
Okay. Starcraft is a game. In a game, there are winners and there are losers. Someone winning necessary implies someone had to lose.
You are emotionally attached to the success of player X or team Y for...whatever reasons. You like it when X or Y wins and you dislike it when X or Y loses. Your appreciation of the game is necessarily biased, skewed, whatever, because that's what cheering is ABOUT.
SKT T1 wins a lot of proleague matches. Several players on SKT T1 win a lot of individual league games. For every win they earn, another team or player has to lose. If people cheer for the team or player that loses, then it's not exactly a leap across the Grand Canyon for them to dislike SKT T1 and/or SKT T1 players, since SKT's wins are necessarily their favorite team/player's losses. The more a team wins, the more dislike they receive from fans of other teams. This may not be "reasonable" (what the hell does that mean when it comes to cheering), but it is natural. Questioning its presence is like questioning the presence of tides or constellations: it's pointless and it's inadvertently funny to everyone else but you.
On December 06 2009 15:05 AttackZerg wrote: I love bisu fans crying.
Boxer and fantasy fans I respect but most of bisu's fans show such little understanding of starcraft that it drives real fans (who actually understand the game they are watching) to hate the team AND the player.
I think bisu is the best protoss in the history of the game but I love when he loses stupidly and his fans have a million stupid reasons for why it happend.
On December 06 2009 15:04 Hinanawi wrote: Personally, I just enjoy seeing Fantasy and Bisu lose. They just happen to be on SKT1, and it's pretty hard for SKT1 to win if both of them lose.
See, then I have to ask why? What have either of those players done to deserve that contempt? They both have produced strong, entertaining games of Starcraft, so in what way to they deserve to lose?
On an unrelated note: fuck my liquibets.
Who said they deserve to lose? We just like to see them do it. Logic does not factor into this at all
On December 06 2009 16:59 TwoToneTerran wrote: Because SKT is the New York Yankees of progaming, proving that the longest standing and best funded team gets you further than anything else.
People LOVE watching the Yankees lose. They just don't do it a lot.
On December 06 2009 16:59 Julmust wrote: You wanna know WHY people react that way Ecrilon? Cause SKT fans are the funniest when they get butthurt, seriously if you succuessfully manage to troll a SKT fan they'll cry harder and longer then anyone else.
And yes, I do love the fact that SKT lost simply 'cause I don't like the team. I AM ENJOYING THIS!
On December 07 2009 00:00 Holgerius wrote: This thread is pretty lame now; in one corner we have a malicious group of smug haters (including myself) and in the other we have some butthurt fanboys who whine about how unfair the hate is.
Okay. Starcraft is a game. In a game, there are winners and there are losers. Someone winning necessary implies someone had to lose.
You are emotionally attached to the success of player X or team Y for...whatever reasons. You like it when X or Y wins and you dislike it when X or Y loses. Your appreciation of the game is necessarily biased, skewed, whatever, because that's what cheering is ABOUT.
SKT T1 wins a lot of proleague matches. Several players on SKT T1 win a lot of individual league games. For every win they earn, another team or player has to lose. If people cheer for the team or player that loses, then it's not exactly a leap across the Grand Canyon for them to dislike SKT T1 and/or SKT T1 players, since SKT's wins are necessarily their favorite team/player's losses. The more a team wins, the more dislike they receive from fans of other teams. This may not be "reasonable" (what the hell does that mean when it comes to cheering), but it is natural. Questioning its presence is like questioning the presence of tides or constellations: it's pointless and it's inadvertently funny to everyone else but you.
Sorry, but, what I posted was just asking what's wrong with TheYango asking his question (which just needed some answers, not flaming against him).
I wasn't asking the same question.
EDIT: Just to clarify, it's expected that people would say some smack talk after the games but that's not what I have a problem with. It's when certain people keep bringing up stuff like Bisu being arrogant and constantly "bitching" about maps that pisses me off. It's like they can literally read any reply regarding maps from Bisu, no matter how humble or arrogant, and still interpret it as complaining when clearly they're the only ones seeing it that way (and not in a reasonable way either).
Nothing's wrong with asking a question, but nothing states that you'll find the answers agreeable. He didn't find the answers agreeable and was somewhat nonplussed. To like a player is to dislike the players who stand between that player and victory. End of story.
And yes, Bisu complains about maps. Don't try to deny it.
On December 08 2009 09:29 EvoChamber wrote: Nothing's wrong with asking a question, but nothing states that you'll find the answers agreeable. He didn't find the answers agreeable and was somewhat nonplussed. To like a player is to dislike the players who stand between that player and victory. End of story.
And yes, Bisu complains about maps. Don't try to deny it.
Yes, that's the problem, you think that you're so right.
Why is it that every time I read his interviews I don't see squat about complaining? Obviously I'm going to be biased and you're going to be biased but in some interview threads for SKT it just goes way too far. With no indication of complaining from Bisu, some idiot said that Bisu was bitching about maps again.
EDIT: Hm... I went back to check his replies but he didn't seem all that nonplussed to me. :/
On December 08 2009 09:29 EvoChamber wrote: Nothing's wrong with asking a question, but nothing states that you'll find the answers agreeable. He didn't find the answers agreeable and was somewhat nonplussed. To like a player is to dislike the players who stand between that player and victory. End of story.
And yes, Bisu complains about maps. Don't try to deny it.
Again, I think that it's a load of horseshit. Liking a progamer doesn't mean you have to hate their rivals. I like watching Bisu play, but that doesn't mean I hold any ill will for Jaedong or Flash. I don't hate the mediocre progamers that eliminated Bisu from individual leagues--I like Guemchi's play and I think Shine has a lot of promise. While I'm sure not every Bisu fan shares these opinions, I'm sure there are plenty who do (and by the same token there are plenty of reasonable fans of other players and teams). I don't think hate is required, and to pretend so is silly.
I guess I was just curious why there needs to be hate at all. Hating players is in no way required to enjoy professional Starcraft, and I think it's pretty stupid to say that it increases your enjoyment to hate players (at the very least, hate is a very silly and base way to find enjoyment).
I think I got my answer in a sense. Thanks to those who indulged my curiousity, and sorry for whatever flame war I incited.
On December 08 2009 09:45 saltywet wrote: i simply like seeing skt lose because of how overrated everyone in skt is, except for BeSt and Bisu
Wait, what?
The only player on SKT that's even arguably overrated is Fantasy. Even SKT fans think Hyuk is terrible (any "Hyuk bonjwa!" comments are pretty obviously joking). Canata is boring to everyone, and even some SKT fans groan when he's in the lineup (especially in TvT). And...Boxer? Well, it's Boxer. Some respect to old progamers is due (its not like you see any less hype for Yellow or Reach).
Yay, I made it into the Greatest Hates! I am thrilled at having my dream turned into reality. Although there were many hardships along the way, since I never thought of giving up and since I had an enjoyable time, I was able to obtain my goal. Most people thought that I wouldn't make it and even I thought that I would have to practice very hard just to make the probability a 50/50 chance. I gave it my best and thankfully it was enough!
I would like to thank all my friends who supported me and helped me achieve this victory. Also a special thank you to my family whose faith in me was a huge help. And a shoutout to all my fans out there; I would never be where I am now without you. I hope I will be able to continue on this path and make more great hates in the future.
I personally love how there are like 10 pages of shit after the games are over. Oz vs SKT is quite a rivalry. But ya, this thread should rest in peace now.
Bisu makes more money than jaedong, flash and whoever other progamers you guys fanboy for. Bisu is the player who is worth the most, and is worth investing in the most. If progamers were girls, Bisu would be the hottest on the market. Jaedong is like the girl who puts out alot. HAHAHA
On December 08 2009 11:41 ProbeSaturation wrote: Bisu makes more money than jaedong, flash and whoever other progamers you guys fanboy for. Bisu is the player who is worth the most, and is worth investing in the most. If progamers were girls, Bisu would be the hottest on the market. Jaedong is like the girl who puts out alot. HAHAHA
On December 08 2009 11:41 ProbeSaturation wrote: Bisu makes more money than jaedong, flash and whoever other progamers you guys fanboy for. Bisu is the player who is worth the most, and is worth investing in the most. If progamers were girls, Bisu would be the hottest on the market. Jaedong is like the girl who puts out alot. HAHAHA
Bisu also gets paid more so, he wins!
hmmmm, you remind me of a thread of progamers being the guys in porn films..... that was awesome
On December 08 2009 10:31 Holgerius wrote: Yay, I made it into the Greatest Hates! I am thrilled at having my dream turned into reality. Although there were many hardships along the way, since I never thought of giving up and since I had an enjoyable time, I was able to obtain my goal. Most people thought that I wouldn't make it and even I thought that I would have to practice very hard just to make the probability a 50/50 chance. I gave it my best and thankfully it was enough!
I would like to thank all my friends who supported me and helped me achieve this victory. Also a special thank you to my family whose faith in me was a huge help. And a shoutout to all my fans out there; I would never be where I am now without you. I hope I will be able to continue on this path and make more great hates in the future.
Clearly Bisu is the best player ever if we take in to account that the hate exhibited towards said player is directly proportional to his level of play. As of now he is at the top (which somehow contradicts his latent few loses).
Though it is still funny how even if he didn't play, people still bash him.
People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
On December 08 2009 10:31 Holgerius wrote: Yay, I made it into the Greatest Hates! I am thrilled at having my dream turned into reality. Although there were many hardships along the way, since I never thought of giving up and since I had an enjoyable time, I was able to obtain my goal. Most people thought that I wouldn't make it and even I thought that I would have to practice very hard just to make the probability a 50/50 chance. I gave it my best and thankfully it was enough!
I would like to thank all my friends who supported me and helped me achieve this victory. Also a special thank you to my family whose faith in me was a huge help. And a shoutout to all my fans out there; I would never be where I am now without you. I hope I will be able to continue on this path and make more great hates in the future.
God bless America! Peace out!
Hold up, hold up...
This reminds me of another post.
Was that you too lol
Yes indeed. Copy+paste is a very useful talent toi have.
Personally I like a bit of rivalry and back and forthing in sports. SKT fans are oversensitive. When we say we hate your team it doesn't mean we really hate your team so no need to get so upset. It just means we like seeing your team lose. And, even more, we like seeing your team lose badly.
On December 08 2009 13:27 tomatriedes wrote: Personally I like a bit of rivalry and back and forthing in sports. SKT fans are oversensitive. When we say we hate your team it doesn't mean we really hate your team so no need to get so upset. It just means we like seeing your team lose. And, even more, we like seeing your team lose badly.
The feeling isn't reciprocated. I feel no joy from seeing Oz lose to some team other than SKT1, while it's fairly clear that fans of every other team have chimed in expressing their enjoyment of SKT1's loss, which is what sparked my original line of questioning to begin with (Oz fans being happy is obvious and expected--the curious thing was how everyone else also derived enjoyment from SKT's loss).
On December 08 2009 13:27 tomatriedes wrote: Personally I like a bit of rivalry and back and forthing in sports. SKT fans are oversensitive. When we say we hate your team it doesn't mean we really hate your team so no need to get so upset. It just means we like seeing your team lose. And, even more, we like seeing your team lose badly.
QFT.
I don't think any other team's fanboys would've argued about how unfair the ''hate'' is for 10 pages. XD
On December 08 2009 13:32 Holgerius wrote: I don't think any other team's fanboys would've argued about how unfair the ''hate'' is for 10 pages. XD
I never made any claims about it being unfair. I was just curious about it's motivations, given that SKT hate seems to span almost every other team. I find certain motivations unfair (e.g "I hate on a team because schadenfreude is fun" is a pretty lame reason to hate a team), but I'm not specifically making any judgments about the hate as a whole.
I was curious if there was some legitimate reason to hate a team or player (in general, not just T1 or Bisu in particular). I got that there was none. Most of the reasons people gave for it over 10 pages were either misinformation, questionable hunches, or plain idiocy.
A small list: - Bisu/SKT fans are extra whiny, have more bandwagoners, and more idiots (I actually think this is the most legitimate reason to hate on SKT, mostly because it's actually true; of course, idiot fans still don't make a good reason to hate a team, it's just a good reason to hate/troll the fans) - Map imba comments/arrogance/etc. (a transcription of a translation loses certain things, so its very questionable if he's actually arrogant, or just terrible at speaking/dealing with people--and I can't really hold the latter against him) - Hating people increases your enjoyment (bullshit; even if it's true, it's still lame--I don't think it has ever been considered socially upright to take pleasure at the misfortune of others) - You have to hate the people that beat your favorite team/player (bullshit)
On December 08 2009 13:27 tomatriedes wrote: Personally I like a bit of rivalry and back and forthing in sports. SKT fans are oversensitive. When we say we hate your team it doesn't mean we really hate your team so no need to get so upset. It just means we like seeing your team lose. And, even more, we like seeing your team lose badly.
The feeling isn't reciprocated. I feel no joy from seeing Oz lose to some team other than SKT1, while it's fairly clear that fans of every other team have chimed in expressing their enjoyment of SKT1's loss, which is what sparked my original line of questioning to begin with (Oz fans being happy is obvious and expected--the curious thing was how everyone else also derived enjoyment from SKT's loss).
Because T1 tears are so sweet and delicious, plus I heard that if you bathe in the blood of a T1 virgin (redundant), you stay young forever.
On December 08 2009 13:32 Holgerius wrote: I don't think any other team's fanboys would've argued about how unfair the ''hate'' is for 10 pages. XD
I never made any claims about it being unfair. I was just curious about it's motivations, given that SKT hate seems to span almost every other team. I find certain motivations unfair (e.g "I hate on a team because schadenfreude is fun" is a pretty lame reason to hate a team), but I'm not specifically making any judgments about the hate as a whole.
I was curious if there was some legitimate reason to hate a team or player (in general, not just T1 or Bisu in particular). I got that there was none. Most of the reasons people gave for it over 10 pages were either misinformation, questionable hunches, or plain idiocy.
How can you not see why people hate SKT? They're the greatest and most dominant team in the history of E-sports (and they are reigning champions). Nuff said.
On December 08 2009 13:53 Holgerius wrote: How can you not see why people hate SKT? They're the greatest and most dominant team in the history of E-sports (and they are reigning champions). Nuff said.
Precisely. "I hate them because they win" is plain idiocy, like I said.
There are enough people in this world that have actually done wrong and depraved things for you to hate that it's silly to waste time hating people have done nothing wrong. Why waste time hating a group of people that you will never meet, that have, at least on superficial inspection, done nothing wrong, and that make their living playing a video game you happen to watch? It's stupid, petty, and pointless. At least Red Sox fans who hate the Yankees might conceivably meet them some day.
On December 08 2009 13:32 Holgerius wrote: I don't think any other team's fanboys would've argued about how unfair the ''hate'' is for 10 pages. XD
I never made any claims about it being unfair. I was just curious about it's motivations, given that SKT hate seems to span almost every other team. I find certain motivations unfair (e.g "I hate on a team because schadenfreude is fun" is a pretty lame reason to hate a team), but I'm not specifically making any judgments about the hate as a whole.
I was curious if there was some legitimate reason to hate a team or player (in general, not just T1 or Bisu in particular). I got that there was none. Most of the reasons people gave for it over 10 pages were either misinformation, questionable hunches, or plain idiocy.
I'm sorry nobody understands SKT and its players more than you do. Now please leave the anti-fans to their misinformation, questionable hunches, or plain idiocy.
Seriously, nobody "legitimately hates" SKT or its players. Some people just like seeing them lose. Partly because seeing them lose shows that there is legitimate competition and also partly because their popularity always guarantees entertaining shitstorms.
I don't even have to explain this. If you're looking for something along the likes of "Fantasy raped my sister" as a legitimate reason to be an anti-fan, you're stupid.
As tomatriedes and cokencheese said, I really doubt anyone really ''hates'' SKT and it's players in that sense. What you must realize is that envy (which is the trigger to the ''hate'' ) is a very basic part of human nature.
On December 08 2009 14:07 cokencheese wrote: Seriously, nobody "legitimately hates" SKT or its players. Some people just like seeing them lose. Partly because seeing them lose shows that there is legitimate competition and also partly because their popularity always guarantees entertaining shitstorms.
I don't even have to explain this. If you're looking for something along the likes of "Fantasy raped my sister" as a legitimate reason to be an anti-fan, you're stupid.
1) Enjoying seeing a team lose is still schadenfreude, any way you slice it. Just because it's a bunch of people you don't know in a country thousands of miles away doesn't make it any more socially acceptable. Which of course, is fine, so long as you don't treat that behavior as in any way defensible.
2) Like I said, the shitstorms are the most legitimate reason I can see for wanting to see SKT lose. I'm fine with that as a reason. It's just some of the bullshit that people come up with to support liking see a team lose is retarded.
On December 08 2009 14:10 Holgerius wrote: As tomatriedes and cokencheese said, I really doubt anyone really ''hates'' SKT and it's players in that sense. What you must realize is that envy (which is the trigger to the ''hate'' ) is a very basic part of human nature.
So because it's part of human nature, it's socially acceptable?
I can see that causing a lot of problems if applied to society as a whole.
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
Geez man, Protoss weakest race, shut up. It is the strongest race. And yeah, there are better players than Bisu, such as Jaedong and Flash.
On December 08 2009 14:10 Holgerius wrote: As tomatriedes and cokencheese said, I really doubt anyone really ''hates'' SKT and it's players in that sense. What you must realize is that envy (which is the trigger to the ''hate'' ) is a very basic part of human nature.
So because it's part of human nature, it's socially acceptable?
I can see that causing a lot of problems if applied to society as a whole.
Well, like it or not; that's the reason people are hating. You said that is what you don't understand (''I was just curious about it's motivations'' ), and that is the psychological explanation to it. You've gotten your answer.
Get over it and accept the fact that human nature isn't going to change over the night just because you get butthurt because of it.
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
Geez man, Protoss weakest race, shut up. It is the strongest race. And yeah, there are better players than Bisu, such as Jaedong and Flash.
Stop trying prove the haters "wrong" in their actions, and attain a position of moral superiority. Just take the loss and be done with it. You are trying to prove them wrong because though you have gotten your answer, u try and find some logical fallacy in it.
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
Geez man, Protoss weakest race, shut up. It is the strongest race. And yeah, there are better players than Bisu, such as Jaedong and Flash.
haha, i can only laugh smugly at this.
1. Jaedong plays zerg. Playing zerg is cheating. Why don't you ask Stork about that.
2. Protoss is the weakest race, but Bisu is so good that he can optimize his race better than Jaedong or Flash have optimized their respective races.
Plus, Bisu plays for SKT, and since Bisu is the best player in the world, SKT is the best progaming team, in the world. He's like Kobe, or Alex Rodriguez.
Jaedong is like, Lebron. Everyone WANTS him to be the new Michael Jordon, the NBA WANTS him to be the new great one, but he can't, because his team isn't winning championships.
Bisu like Kobe, is hated by many. But he's just so much better than everyone else, that it doesn't matter. He has the championship.
But by your logic isn't playing for the strongest team cheating because your teammates make it so much easier for your workload? (BTW, Lecaf already won a championship) And last I checked, Lebron and Kobe didn't play different races.
On December 08 2009 14:25 Holgerius wrote: Get over it and accept the fact that human nature isn't going to change over the night just because you get butthurt because of it.
Boy, have I heard that (or something to its effect) a lot. lol
Yeah, I think I've kept this up for a bit longer than I should.
The point is, Bisu is bigger and better than the entire OZ team.
And you just can't admit that to yourself. You can face the fact that one single player, not a team, but a single player, can be worth more, be greater, than an entire professional gaming team.
It's probably why when SKT loses, it all boils down to Bisu. Because Bisu is SKT, or at least that's how you guys see it.
For you, SKT and Bisu, Bisu and SKT, they are interchangeable. You can't separate the two. So even when Bisu doesn't even play, everything comes back to him. Because when you beat SKT, you are beating Bisu. You guys can say that you guys beat Bisu. And that makes you all happy inside =)
You think you're good at trolling. You're not, look up some Hot_Bid posts. You just seem kinda...crazy. You're asking us to suspend disbelief too much. Good luck :D
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
Geez man, Protoss weakest race, shut up. It is the strongest race. And yeah, there are better players than Bisu, such as Jaedong and Flash.
Uh... haha... I don't know where you're coming from but saying that any race is the strongest race makes you look like a newb.
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
Geez man, Protoss weakest race, shut up. It is the strongest race. And yeah, there are better players than Bisu, such as Jaedong and Flash.
Uh... haha... I don't know where you're coming from but saying that any race is the strongest race makes you look like a newb.
and saying jaedong n flash are better than bisu jsut makes him look fucken retarded
On December 08 2009 21:23 lyhb wrote: bisu would beat flash
he even lost to a slumping stork
must reply to this yes flash lost to a "slumping" stork that made it to the finals of WCG when bisu got 3rd after winning WCG korea bisu lost to....(shine,bogus)
the last 2 people flash has lost to since the prolague allstars have been stork and best, who are undoubtedly 2 of the best PvT players in history, bisu lost to people not even 50% in their vP percentages
your agument is what again?
i actually don't mind SKT i give em propz cuz they pulled out some good games, and you have to respect their history, but seriously this is e-peen swordfighting going on here D:
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
Geez man, Protoss weakest race, shut up. It is the strongest race. And yeah, there are better players than Bisu, such as Jaedong and Flash.
Uh... haha... I don't know where you're coming from but saying that any race is the strongest race makes you look like a newb.
and saying jaedong n flash are better than bisu jsut makes him look fucken retarded
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
Geez man, Protoss weakest race, shut up. It is the strongest race. And yeah, there are better players than Bisu, such as Jaedong and Flash.
haha, i can only laugh smugly at this.
1. Jaedong plays zerg. Playing zerg is cheating. Why don't you ask Stork about that.
2. Protoss is the weakest race, but Bisu is so good that he can optimize his race better than Jaedong or Flash have optimized their respective races.
Plus, Bisu plays for SKT, and since Bisu is the best player in the world, SKT is the best progaming team, in the world. He's like Kobe, or Alex Rodriguez.
Jaedong is like, Lebron. Everyone WANTS him to be the new Michael Jordon, the NBA WANTS him to be the new great one, but he can't, because his team isn't winning championships.
Bisu like Kobe, is hated by many. But he's just so much better than everyone else, that it doesn't matter. He has the championship.
You're a fucking idiot.
Starcraft isn't measured by proleague team victories, starcraft is measured by STARLEAGUES.
Jaedong has 3 OSLs (golden mouse) and 1 MSL Bisu has 3 MSL
Nada / Savior were never proleague stars, and their teams were never dominating the proleague. But they've reached legendary status cuz of their STARLEAGUE VICTORIES.
PLUS, Jaedong already has a proleague championship under his belt. His team defeated CJ in 2008.
Stupid D level idiots should never be allowed to post.
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
i think they bash him because he doesn't know how to hold position bro!
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
i think they bash him because he doesn't know how to hold position bro!
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
Geez man, Protoss weakest race, shut up. It is the strongest race. And yeah, there are better players than Bisu, such as Jaedong and Flash.
haha, i can only laugh smugly at this.
1. Jaedong plays zerg. Playing zerg is cheating. Why don't you ask Stork about that.
2. Protoss is the weakest race, but Bisu is so good that he can optimize his race better than Jaedong or Flash have optimized their respective races.
Plus, Bisu plays for SKT, and since Bisu is the best player in the world, SKT is the best progaming team, in the world. He's like Kobe, or Alex Rodriguez.
Jaedong is like, Lebron. Everyone WANTS him to be the new Michael Jordon, the NBA WANTS him to be the new great one, but he can't, because his team isn't winning championships.
Bisu like Kobe, is hated by many. But he's just so much better than everyone else, that it doesn't matter. He has the championship.
You're a fucking idiot.
Starcraft isn't measured by proleague team victories, starcraft is measured by STARLEAGUES.
Jaedong has 3 OSLs (golden mouse) and 1 MSL Bisu has 3 MSL
Nada / Savior were never proleague stars, and their teams were never dominating the proleague. But they've reached legendary status cuz of their STARLEAGUE VICTORIES.
PLUS, Jaedong already has a proleague championship under his belt. His team defeated CJ in 2008.
Stupid D level idiots should never be allowed to post.
But you are missing the god damn point. Jaedong plays zerg. ZERG he plays ZERG. like.....zerg?!?! ZERRGG???? Bisu plays protoss.
On December 08 2009 13:10 ProbeSaturation wrote: People bash Bisu because he is better than their favourite player in talent, skill and overall accomplishment. Plus he plays the weakest race, which makes him even more awesome.
Geez man, Protoss weakest race, shut up. It is the strongest race. And yeah, there are better players than Bisu, such as Jaedong and Flash.
haha, i can only laugh smugly at this.
1. Jaedong plays zerg. Playing zerg is cheating. Why don't you ask Stork about that.
2. Protoss is the weakest race, but Bisu is so good that he can optimize his race better than Jaedong or Flash have optimized their respective races.
Plus, Bisu plays for SKT, and since Bisu is the best player in the world, SKT is the best progaming team, in the world. He's like Kobe, or Alex Rodriguez.
Jaedong is like, Lebron. Everyone WANTS him to be the new Michael Jordon, the NBA WANTS him to be the new great one, but he can't, because his team isn't winning championships.
Bisu like Kobe, is hated by many. But he's just so much better than everyone else, that it doesn't matter. He has the championship.
You're a fucking idiot.
Starcraft isn't measured by proleague team victories, starcraft is measured by STARLEAGUES.
Jaedong has 3 OSLs (golden mouse) and 1 MSL Bisu has 3 MSL
Nada / Savior were never proleague stars, and their teams were never dominating the proleague. But they've reached legendary status cuz of their STARLEAGUE VICTORIES.
PLUS, Jaedong already has a proleague championship under his belt. His team defeated CJ in 2008.
Stupid D level idiots should never be allowed to post.
Actually stardom is completely subjective and arbitrary.
Boxer has 2 OSLs and 1 MSL (KPGA). Yellow has no Starleague titles and is definitely a legend. Xellos has 1 OSL title and an enormous fanbase - the WCG Starcraft documentary was focused primarily on him. Reach has 1 OSL title and an enormous fanbase.
You don't need to be an A+ ICCUP player to know who's famous. Fame isn't measured by skill. Nada has 3 OSLs and 3 MSLs, and Savior is arguably more legendary than Nada. iloveoov and Savior each have 3 MSLs and 1 MSL, and Savior is definitively more legendary, despite iloveoov's 27-0 TvZ streak.
Arguing who's more legendary is completely subjective and depends a lot on fan reaction.
On December 08 2009 21:23 lyhb wrote: bisu would beat flash
he even lost to a slumping stork
must reply to this yes flash lost to a "slumping" stork that made it to the finals of WCG when bisu got 3rd after winning WCG korea bisu lost to....(shine,bogus)
the last 2 people flash has lost to since the prolague allstars have been stork and best, who are undoubtedly 2 of the best PvT players in history, bisu lost to people not even 50% in their vP percentages
your agument is what again?
i actually don't mind SKT i give em propz cuz they pulled out some good games, and you have to respect their history, but seriously this is e-peen swordfighting going on here D:
On December 09 2009 05:38 Holgerius wrote: Isn't it about time this thread got closed or something? I mean, it will never die otherwise. Pretty much half the thread is post-game bullshit now.
EPT
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HiyA < Neo Moon Glaive > 
n.Die_soO
Spear < Neo Heartbreak Ridge > ![[image loading]](http://i33.tinypic.com/258rszo.png)
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!
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