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141eapm is still pretty insane though for being D rank. I mean I've gotten to B rank (fuck I'm so god damn gosu) on the ICCUP ladder by bashing those koreans (progamers were my main victims of choice ofc) and I don't think I've ever had a game where my eapm was over 120.
(Yes I play protoss, fuck off.)
So at least you got the speed to be gosu. Now you just have to figure out what to do, and believe it or not, that is the easier part of playing sc. I mean, I bet mani knows as much about strategy and how you should play as semi-progamers, mechanics are the needed ingredient for many of us.
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When I first looked at the title, I thought it's just another person tired of doing mech/sk. Just use mnm and 2fact tanks against Z. But, it's TvP.
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Osaka27140 Posts
I agree, that was a hilariously bad game, and you stomped him completely. D rank terran powa!
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On July 17 2009 16:06 Jonoman92 wrote: 141eapm is still pretty insane though for being D rank. I mean I've gotten to B rank (fuck I'm so god damn gosu) on the ICCUP ladder by bashing those koreans (progamers were my main victims of choice ofc) and I don't think I've ever had a game where my eapm was over 120.
(Yes I play protoss, fuck off.)
So at least you got the speed to be gosu. Now you just have to figure out what to do, and believe it or not, that is the easier part of playing sc. I mean, I bet mani knows as much about strategy and how you should play as semi-progamers, mechanics are the needed ingredient for many of us.
Yea, I have the discipline of a crack a ferret, and I'm also focusing on 2:2 right now, so I probably won't try 1:1 for a good bit of time.
Even with 140 EAPM over 12 minutes, sometimes my macro fails totally if I'm in a bad situation/microing particularly hard for some reason, particularly when I have random partner.
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On July 16 2009 13:11 Manifesto7 wrote:In order to pick off the MM in one shot though, he would have to focus fire. That is beyond the abilities of most D+ protoss players. Losing your first tanks devastates this build more than losing the first marines though. Yesterday I miss-microed terribly, lost my first tanks, and got run over by scouts  Show nested quote +On July 15 2009 23:15 GreEny K wrote: "If you look like this, youre in good shape"
I wouldnt agree with that, if the P has ANY idea what he is doing he will have his goons at your choke and will micro back, so when you stim and move forward your tanks fall back and the toss can just hold position and then move back. Also if you do this slightly wrong and get scouted he will get speed lotz or a reaver and destroy you. BTW i think i played you on a smurf account and you tried this, I did what i said above and just added gates speedlotz and took 2 expos. the game was over in 14 minutes or so, i even made a Pylon heart in the bottom left of Destination, by the third expo. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea, there are 100 things that beat this build. I know this very well. The point is to try a different build than one fac expo. It is an intense build, and fun win or lose. Pretty wimpy of you not to tell me who you were though. It isn't like I'm going to go and check my reps. I lose with this build probably 50% of the time.
I was trace_the-ace, i wasnt trying to hide that i just didnt know you wanted it. Also this build is countered by MANY different responses as someone said earlier which is why i hate it. Im p and when i counter this (99% of the time) the terran always rage quits, always saying "who gets legs taht fast noob, if i did normal play i woulda raped you" and i think to myself, if you did normal play i wouldnt have gotten legs this fast retard... Not you in particular but a lot of noobs respond to loss with that false sense of security in themselves. And teh guy with the 300 apm and only 141 eapm is just lol. Since you can get that high apm try making them actually usefull and effective, I get 200 apm and the eapm is 190-195 depending on if im tired or not if i am i go 160 apm and the eapm is 150 mostly. Its not about speed its how you use it..... BUT SPEED HELPS!!
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This build seems to be getting fairly popular at the D+ level. I faced it 3-4 times in the ~20 PvTs I played. Whenever my probe scout is denied by a wall, I go super safe 2 gate obs before expo in case T goes 2 fact. But that gets raped by this build since the observers don't do anything and I've invested resources into robo+observatory.
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Osaka27140 Posts
On July 18 2009 04:54 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2009 13:11 Manifesto7 wrote:In order to pick off the MM in one shot though, he would have to focus fire. That is beyond the abilities of most D+ protoss players. Losing your first tanks devastates this build more than losing the first marines though. Yesterday I miss-microed terribly, lost my first tanks, and got run over by scouts  On July 15 2009 23:15 GreEny K wrote: "If you look like this, youre in good shape"
I wouldnt agree with that, if the P has ANY idea what he is doing he will have his goons at your choke and will micro back, so when you stim and move forward your tanks fall back and the toss can just hold position and then move back. Also if you do this slightly wrong and get scouted he will get speed lotz or a reaver and destroy you. BTW i think i played you on a smurf account and you tried this, I did what i said above and just added gates speedlotz and took 2 expos. the game was over in 14 minutes or so, i even made a Pylon heart in the bottom left of Destination, by the third expo. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea, there are 100 things that beat this build. I know this very well. The point is to try a different build than one fac expo. It is an intense build, and fun win or lose. Pretty wimpy of you not to tell me who you were though. It isn't like I'm going to go and check my reps. I lose with this build probably 50% of the time. I was trace_the-ace, i wasnt trying to hide that i just didnt know you wanted it. Also this build is countered by MANY different responses as someone said earlier which is why i hate it. Im p and when i counter this (99% of the time) the terran always rage quits, always saying "who gets legs taht fast noob, if i did normal play i woulda raped you" and i think to myself, if you did normal play i wouldnt have gotten legs this fast retard... Not you in particular but a lot of noobs respond to loss with that false sense of security in themselves. And teh guy with the 300 apm and only 141 eapm is just lol. Since you can get that high apm try making them actually usefull and effective, I get 200 apm and the eapm is 190-195 depending on if im tired or not if i am i go 160 apm and the eapm is 150 mostly. Its not about speed its how you use it..... BUT SPEED HELPS!!
Sorry, we never played. As I have said repeatedly, there are many counters to this build. The purpose is to enjoy playing BW in a different way. The people in your example aren't having a good time no matter what they try.
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Is EAPM the same as VAPM on BWchart?
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A more interesting build tvp in my opinion is going 14 cc and then add 2 rax and rush academy + range upgrade with 2 bunkers (to deal with goons - most p's tries to break you with range goons followed by dts). This also transists into m&m+tank but you have an amazingly good econ if you defend it and can usually overwhelm him with m&m before he has storm. Obviously it doesn't work well for D players, because it's extremely timing and micro intensive...
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On July 18 2009 21:38 gumbum8 wrote: Is EAPM the same as VAPM on BWchart? no
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This build can caught your enemy offguard pretty easily, but if you're opponents goes reaver/dt, you are screwed as fuck
My eapm is 100 or something like that and i've reached c+ pretty easily last season (PROTOSS POWA)
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I had this done to me in Highlander Luckily I went DT rush so my opponent alt_QQed the moment his scan went out. ^^ When i ran my dt's in i was quite suprised to see that many marines / tanks + medics that quick never saw it before. Then I found this thread.
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This build works surprisingly well hahaha Thanks Mani!
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If vapm is not the same as eapm in BWchart is there a program that does tell you your eapm? Im assuming there is, can someone give me a link to a dl please. thanks.
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On July 07 2009 17:22 GTR wrote:here is my variation, 1fac FE into 2fac tank/6 rax (known as deep six) works really well imo although i cant believe that guy was d+
Deep 6 was more than just that though. You were also supposed to use drops, EMP, nukes, and ridiculously awkward defensive base building
Mani people usually use 3 rax for this build, I have seen it many times on ICCup vs good koreans. It's pretty rape if you dont' see it coming.
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On July 18 2009 22:31 Ilikestarcraft wrote:no
ok.
And where can you see your EAPM?
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This is a great build if your opponent doesn't see it coming, but it gets destroyed if they see it.
Denying scouting is a huge part of this build.
Really fun though!!! Nice write up
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Osaka27140 Posts
On July 22 2009 01:57 Louder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2009 17:22 GTR wrote:here is my variation, 1fac FE into 2fac tank/6 rax (known as deep six) works really well imo although i cant believe that guy was d+ Deep 6 was more than just that though. You were also supposed to use drops, EMP, nukes, and ridiculously awkward defensive base building Mani people usually use 3 rax for this build, I have seen it many times on ICCup vs good koreans. It's pretty rape if you dont' see it coming.
Yeah I get all chicken though and get too many tanks (thus the D guide). I generally get the third rax much too late, making my first attack too vulnerable.
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Here's one of my funnier attempts.
The following is a 39:19 minute D rank TvP on Destination featuring Terran Infantry used throughout. As well as a couple nukes thrown in for fun.
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=17472
If only I had faster fingers!
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