EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/biotankGuide/banner.png)
First let's set some ground rules ladies, this is a guide for D players only. If you sport the canary yellow, the viagra blue, or the snot green icons, get out now. This guide is for manly men who share in the brotherhood of blood-red D icons.
You know what I like about being a D player? You have the freedom to do whatever you want. Nobody is going to run you over for forgetting a depot for a minute, and your build order doesn't have to be a machine. There is room for error, which opens up a variety of fun builds.
Now then, to business. Recently I jumped on iCCup for the first time in a couple seasons. (Profile) I like to play all the races, but I dislike PvP. What do I find on iCCup? 95% protoss players being jerks. As a result, I thought I would refine my patented ManifestoCrusher, ie. tank bio build.
Purpose
The purpose of this build is to attack the protoss in a window where they have most likely just taken their natural expansion. Normal terran timing attacks work on this principle, but focus on the protoss' second expo. They also require you to FE yourself, which is lame and boring. It is also just a super fun build to play, and it requires bursts of intense micro.
Kind of a Build Order
I don't do numbers, watch the replays, but here is how I build things:
1. Build your depot, barrack, gas, and factory as normal. You can wall or not, I don't care. I scout pretty early, usually after depot, just to check for bullshit cheese.
2. Build two marines to rid your base of the scouting probe. Start your tank and siege together. + Show Spoiler [random note] +
In lots of my replays I seem to be getting siege and then tank, there is no reason behind this except I don't want to forget later, or use my gas for bio stuff. I just get it out of the way.
3. With the scouting gone, drop your second barrack deep in your base. Follow that with the academy. While you are building the academy, build marines non-stop. I suggest rallying them away from your ramp so they are not so visible.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/biotankGuide/biotankAcadRax.png)
Starting the super secret buildings...
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/biotankGuide/biotankDepotDoh.png)
D+ Macro working overtime... don't forget depots please!
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/biotankGuide/biotankHidingunits.png)
My troops, chilling out before war (and away from the ramp).
4. When the academy finishes, start stim and build three or four medics to go with your 8 to 10 marines. Continue building tanks as gas allows. Follow stim tech with range.
Moving out!
I move out at about 45 supply. I usually have had to cut a few scv here and there to get tech faster, but 45 gives you 12 or so MM and 3-4 tanks. By this time you have long since scouted his position, and you should consider sending out another scv ahead of the army to check where his goons are, by your choke or at his own choke.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/biotankGuide/biotankMovingOut.png)
If your army looks like this, you should be in good shape.
If they are by your choke, be careful! A user with good goon micro can bleed your MM all the way across the map. Lead with your tanks, but make sure your marines can sprint forward if he tries to target them. If you lose your tanks, you are dead.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/biotankGuide/biotankMidMap.png)
You may encounter resistance in the middle of the map. Use your rines to chase them back, but send your rines back to your medics to heal. You have to keep them alive.
If his army is by his choke, he may have expanded very quickly, or he is guarding some kind of tech. Most players seem to be going reaver, which is ok for our build.
PROTIP! As you move out, reset the rally points of your barracks and factory to his choke. You will need instant backup, and a marine drip helps protect your tanks.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/biotankGuide/biotankChargeNexus.png)
Hit the nexus if it is there, siege up the ramp if he is in his main. Might want to send an scv at this point too. Note the reinforcements automatically coming down the map.
Now what?
Now your goal is to exploit this window of time and force protoss into his main. If he has already dropped an expansion, then you want him to lose his army defending it, or have him retreat.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/biotankGuide/biotankHittingNexus.png)
Someone get a mop, it's time to clean up!
If he has a reaver, kill the shuttle. Your tanks should be spread and sieged, and the marines should stim and attack the shuttle. Without the shuttle he cannot intercept your reinforcements or harass your basically undefended main.
Some Random Points
- A DT build kills this very very hard. If you have reason to suspect DT, go home and take your expansion. You will run out of scans.
- The first medics are to keep your first marines alive as they chase goons across the map. After the first batch, make straight marines from the barracks.
- Don't lose your tanks. You need them to scare the protoss guy.
- If your first attack does not win, don't despair. Continue to rally marines and tanks to reinforce. Retreating allows protoss to breathe, and they will probably win.
- If the contain/attack is prolonged, make another barrack and another factory with no add-on. Research mines and add some vultures into the mix. Do not give up on the marines. Don't forget range when your gas builds up again.
- +1 weapons take down shields like crazy. You need an ebay at some point (after you move out) so get it. Another option is to use your scouting probe to make an ebay close to the opponents main. Float is and you will save a scan. You will also draw his units toward home.
- Don't be a pussy and wait too long. If you wait his goon count will get too high and you won't have the firepower to stop it. 45 pop and go.
But Mani I need to expand!
No you don't. You can survive 8 minutes without dropping another CC. Obviously if you think you are not going to be able to crack his main, then expand. Otherwise, full steam ahead!
Conclusion and replays:
This build will get slaughtered at higher levels, but one of the great things about being D is you can try different stuff and still have a chance to win. Here are some replays and some comments about them. You can down load the whole pack or just one by one.
Full Pack
This was my first attempt, just free balling it.
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16251.jpg)
This is a second, standard game on python where the build works as it should. It is also the game where I got the above screenshots.
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16252.jpg)
This is a third standard game on python, where the build works.
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16253.jpg)
This is a game on Collosseum that went a little bit longer, and shows a transition to vultures.
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16255.jpg)
Another game on python, this time with a reaver backstab. This is a little longer than the others.
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16257.jpg)
This is an example of the build on Medusa.
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16258.jpg)
In this game on Katrina I took some early damage but stuck with it. Scanning his natural timing helped me man up and move out.
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16260.jpg)
I lost this game as my opponent switched up to dts. That, combined with my t-rex claw control spelled gg for me.
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16262.jpg)
I lost this game by losing my tanks due to poor positioning. If I hadn't been so greedy I could have done better.
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16264.jpg)
This guy just raped me silly
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16266.jpg)
Any feedback is greatly appreciated, give it a try and post the results!
Enjoy!
Question and Answer Time!
On July 07 2009 16:49 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Can't you fake an FE? Just pretend to move out with 4 (instead of 6) and no vulture to push the goons back.
Also keep in mind many tosses keep a probe in the corner of terran's nat to check for expo.
Can't you fake an FE? Just pretend to move out with 4 (instead of 6) and no vulture to push the goons back.
Also keep in mind many tosses keep a probe in the corner of terran's nat to check for expo.
You absolutely can. It does, of course, depend on how close his goons are. You really really don't want him to get hasty and pick off the first tank.
On July 07 2009 22:17 Revabug wrote:
I don't think you need the ebay tbh, by the time DTs pop you'll probably have 2 scans which would give you time to throw it down.
Otherwise you can get a CC way earlier. If they went for reaver tech you can just quickly run your SCVs and they'll be forced to use their reaver very defensively, especially with marines stopping the shuttle from dropping units on the tanks.
I don't think you need the ebay tbh, by the time DTs pop you'll probably have 2 scans which would give you time to throw it down.
Otherwise you can get a CC way earlier. If they went for reaver tech you can just quickly run your SCVs and they'll be forced to use their reaver very defensively, especially with marines stopping the shuttle from dropping units on the tanks.
This is really personal preference. I like floating an ebay over the protoss base because it is super fun and forces him to reposition his troops. If he ignores it you can land it and cause more havoc. Also, I really like +1 attack at the 8 minute mark or so. It helps keep the MM relevant.
As for the dts, I'm afraid I disagree with you. The smart protoss player will just send them one at a time at you, and after your second scan your push will get chopped to shreds. dts kill marines in one hit, and really suck the life out of this build.
On July 07 2009 22:57 meathook wrote:
P.P.S
I remember someone telling me that you were B-level terran at one point.. what happened, Mani?
P.P.S
I remember someone telling me that you were B-level terran at one point.. what happened, Mani?
I'm afraid your person was sadly misinformed. I am, and will always be, a D+ player who hobbles over the C- line occasionally. I don't play competitively of course, I just play for fun, and all races. Maybe if I get bionic hands and play only Terran I could get to C+.
On July 07 2009 22:57 unknown.sam wrote:
was this build inspired by the go.go game against bisu in OSL??
edit: i was wondering...this kind of build wouldn't work well where the positions are pretty far from each other like say on destination??
was this build inspired by the go.go game against bisu in OSL??
edit: i was wondering...this kind of build wouldn't work well where the positions are pretty far from each other like say on destination??
Nope, sorry, I have been doing this since before go.go was born. His was the deep six variant as well (something like what Testie used to do on Nostalgia all the time). However, I think FE is for babies, so I like this build.
Long travel distances suck. At D though, many protoss payers just run home, so it is fine. It is those players who micro their goons all the way back up the map that easily defeat this build.
On July 08 2009 01:20 d_so wrote:
do you add any upgrades?
i used to do this build as an off-speed kinda build and ive noticed early +1 armor really helps, especially if they switch to DT's (takes two hits to kill marines)
do you add any upgrades?
i used to do this build as an off-speed kinda build and ive noticed early +1 armor really helps, especially if they switch to DT's (takes two hits to kill marines)
I do like upgrades, and next time I play I will try armour rather than attack
On July 08 2009 02:52 Luddite wrote:
Isn't this build a fairly standard timing attack in tvz?
Isn't this build a fairly standard timing attack in tvz?
It used to be. See Goodfriend vs July in the OSL finals on Forte for a nice example. However, with modern mutas, this build dies pretty hard TvZ now. Once you lose the tank it is over, and mutas rape the reinforcements, which is such a huge part of making this work.
On July 08 2009 06:11 derbz wrote:
Y'know, I always thought rines should be used more in TvP. Way to be.
Wouldn't reavers kind of destroy this build, though? I get that the shuttle would be taken down easily but reavers>marines.
Y'know, I always thought rines should be used more in TvP. Way to be.
Wouldn't reavers kind of destroy this build, though? I get that the shuttle would be taken down easily but reavers>marines.
Yep, reavers suck. This build is awesome against zealot/goon, but a reaver leaves a lot of challenges. If you watch the replays though, the majority of the games the protoss goes for a reaver. If he has above average micro with shuttle / reaver, you probably won't win. But at D, it evens out. Having an scv along for a turret or two really helps limit the mobility of the shuttle ad protects your tanks.
Take a look at the replay though, I managed to win vs reaver every time I think.
On July 08 2009 08:56 generic88 wrote:
I have a question. Terran infantry seems to be a lot weaker than mech in many regards. (Tons of counters, Goon Micro, Reaver, DT, HT. More APM required due to their fragility and large numbers). Are there any advantages or strengths that infantry has over mech?
I have a question. Terran infantry seems to be a lot weaker than mech in many regards. (Tons of counters, Goon Micro, Reaver, DT, HT. More APM required due to their fragility and large numbers). Are there any advantages or strengths that infantry has over mech?
Well, yes and no. Vultures die very quickly to dragoons, and they do nothing vs a reaver. MM can heal itself, take a similar number of hits, and kill observers / shuttles. In addition, the rate of fire of 10 stimmed marines compared to 6 vultures or so is incredible. Marines pour out a lot more damage.
For this build I don't consider HT to be a counter because it takes too long to get. Goon micro is kind of a counter, but it still forces them back, which is the point of this build. You want to get your tanks in position.
But it is surprising, and it is an early attack. The main reason to do it? It is fun!
![[image loading]](http://repdepot.net/img/thumbs/16280.jpg)
