I recently played an iCCup game at the C- level on Python. I opened with an FD build and scouted accordingly beforehand. After my FD push, I proceeded to tech and macro up. I was scouting for his third, which never came, due to the fact that he decided to go with a DT drop.
My question is: how do I recognize that he is going for a DT drop. And what steps should I take in order to prevent something like that if I opened with FD. I feel that this is my weakest point in the TvP matchup - that is the DT drop - and I would really like to hear everybody's insight on this matter.
Even though I persevered to the end, I would like to know how not to be in a disadvantageous position early on.
edit- depends on your build as well. if you plan on turtling and playing for 200/200 then get armory instead of academy and simply mine up/tank/turret in your base.
otherwise, you will need scanners anyway to push out quickly to when doing your 4-6 fac push just remember the acad.
I will watch the replay shortly, but here are some tips beforehand. - When you see he is going DT, bring a tank, and the marines leftover(if any) from your FD opening to somewhere near your supply depots and CC in your main. If you don't have any marines build one, or if you went for a fast academy then a goliath. - That goliath, or those marines, are mainly for trying to shoot down his shuttle and deter him from harassing you base because unless you build more turrets than you should be doing his shuttle will just find different places to drop if you keep following it around with anti-ground units. - You probably want 1 turret by your main CC, shooting down shuttles if they come near your mineral line, and one someone along the edge, preferably but your factories or something. - Like inertinept said, get an academy if you don't already have one, and 2 comsats asap. - Your remaining units should be a few siege tanks which you leave on siege mode at your natural(at least 2). Don't leave them all in tank mode because if he drops by your mineral line and your tanks are at your nat's entrance it takes a little bit to save your SCV's. Have about 2 siege tanks within reach of shooting at your mineral line incase he decides to drop there instead of your main(which isn't as common). You should also have 2 turrets at your natural, one by your mineral line, and one at your naturals entrance. - If you opened FD or 2fact or just happen to have mines upgraded already feel free to lay some down by your supply depots or spots you think he might try to harass in your main. DON'T LAY THEM BY YOUR MINERAL LINE for obvious reasons. + Show Spoiler +
DT bomb anyone?
- If he doesn't drop with his initial 1-2 DT's and waits for a full shuttle bring another tank into your main. - What I usually do is float my barracks and my eBay, when I take my natural I float my barracks overtop of the cliff or water or whatever above my natural to see incoming shuttles, and I float my eBay somewhere I think would be in his shuttles path to my main. I.E. If I spawned at 8 o clock on python, and he spawned at 1 o clock, I usually put my eBay halfway between my base and the 6 o clock main. If you see the shuttle incoming and it doesn't turn around feel free to bring another tank from your natural to your main if he is headed there because he probably won't try to bust your natural.
EDIT: LOL wow, you guys were in the exact same positions I described for my floating building position in this game.
Your early game was great and all but the only real problem is that your eBay was too late. You got it about 45 seconds too late. He didn't even go 1gate tech skipping range or anything. He did a standard 1 gate range goon, even building a zealot first, then added a second gate, and took his natural while teching to DT's.
That was basically your bad for not having turrets fast enough, you had plenty of units to defend and he ended up suiciding his DT into a crapload of your SCV's getting transfered because you layed a mine under your gas(which I specifially mentioned not to do before watching, man I'm a psychic ). Just follow proper eBay timing and the things I mentioned and you would own that drop over and over again if did.
Also, lol at your BM at the start of the game and him responding with BM after he owned you with the drop.
EDIT: It was about 10-11 SCV's that DT bomb killed haha, and that's not even including his kills before it died.
if u dun see him taking a 3rd, it definitely means he's either massing gates or teching at that level.
Generally, you want to add the ebay before your 2nd fac if you have no idea what he's doing after his initial expo. If you know what he's doing, what tech he's doing, etc etc then you can add 2nd fac before detection. If you go FD, it's always a good idea to place like 6 mines around ur turrets in case of DT drops. Reav drops just need 2 seiged tanks around a turret and a mobile army to chase the shuttle.
I find that DT users are a lot more conservative with their goons b/c of their slow obs, so i abuse this with like 5fac1shop and mass vults and mines everywhere. This will let me secure a faraway 3rd, and then i will proceed to add 2 more facs and a shop if i can as soon as i get map control.
If you manage to prevent him from getting his 3rd, make sure u double the defense at ur bases to prevent any last minute all-ins.
If you do an FD how can he defend it if he's going dt drop? Usually he's going to have to have fewer goons and no range. If he can defend it, it either means:
1) your micro was bad/his was good, or
2) his dt drop is going to be delayed in which case you should have a turret in your main with an e-bay floating over it with scans going up somewhat soon assuming you are able to see the fact that his natural is going up later than usual.
On April 01 2009 15:02 Jonoman92 wrote: If you do an FD how can he defend it if he's going dt drop? Usually he's going to have to have fewer goons and no range. If he can defend it, it either means:
1) your micro was bad/his was good, or
2) his dt drop is going to be delayed in which case you should have a turret in your main with an e-bay floating over it with scans going up somewhat soon assuming you are able to see the fact that his natural is going up later than usual.
Looks like your Engineering Bay was significantly late, and that's pretty much the only problem I noticed. I think most Terrans would've had their turrets up by then... where in your case it looked like you had 3rd and 4th Factories making before EBay was even finished.
I'm not pro enough to give you advice beyond that, I just hope that not everyone at C- level is as bad mannered as your opponent was.
DT drop will most often occur before you start a push. Therefor, before you start any push, keep some marines and 2 tanks in you main, unsieged. These should be in your main but pretty close to your ramp, so you can either siege up to defend an attack from the front but also defend vs dtdrops in your main.
Reactiontime is everything, the instant you see a shuttle coming towards your base, move tanks and marines there to protect the turret and to kill the dts.
There is usually no sign for DT drop unless you scout the actual buildings. If you use a strat which includes FD, try to keep one vulture alive to scout for any third expansion. If he has no third expansion once your scans are up, scan twice in his main to scout for his tech.
Even if you will not have any scan left, the turrets and units (marines +2tanks) in your main is almost always enough to stop the dtdrop, specially if you have scanned his plan.
I think all this information could be found at [G] Terran FAQ so be sure to check it out if you haven't already.
A toss that doesn't take their third in a reasonable period of time (many players take their nat and 3rd very close together in time), then they are either going dt drop, fast arbs or 2base carriers. You need scan to find out which and it's easy to find because there isn't much space to put the tech buildings. Also, a cheap way to find out what they're doing is to float your ebay to their base.
a dt drop is easy to beat. If you put a turret below your gas and cover it with a barracks, they cannot target it with dts and your units can fight it relatively easy while covering a good portion of your resources
You added like 3 facts before getting your e-bay which is why turrets were not in time. So instead get the ebay and then add your 3-4-5th fact. Also, the game is funny because the whole time he thought he was raping you and went to carriers only to get owned in the end and he left without gg
On April 04 2009 23:02 Piste wrote: Guys, he is nt asking how to defend from dt-drop, but how to spot it coming!
Well if the toss is preventing you from scouting properly by denying your scouts the only choice you have to make is just an ebay in time for when his DT's would normally come out anyway. If he didn't tech, oh well, too bad, if he did then good for you. A spider mine saw the shuttle leaving his base so he should have had some extra time to react anyways. The main thing is his ebay was late. He should have gotten it earlier if he couldn't get any scouts into the toss' base.
need to go soon so cant watch rep but against DT's - go fast academy for 2 scans, then turrets, and place mines where you think the dt's are going to go
If you suspect dt, get an academy and mine around your bases at possible drop spots (near depots or whatever). You won't be using every single mine in your vultures and keeping some in your base for situations like this can be a good strategy. If they do a reaver drop, sometimes you get lucky and the mines explode on the reaver, damaging it heavily and allowing you to chase it away with marine/tank.
On April 01 2009 15:02 Jonoman92 wrote: If you do an FD how can he defend it if he's going dt drop? Usually he's going to have to have fewer goons and no range. If he can defend it, it either means:
1) your micro was bad/his was good, or
2) his dt drop is going to be delayed in which case you should have a turret in your main with an e-bay floating over it with scans going up somewhat soon assuming you are able to see the fact that his natural is going up later than usual.
I watched the rep, it was a failed version of #2.
Most of time that I go dt drop, I make 2 dts for the drop then one for defence, most of time, terran mine in front of my nat then move back cause the terran use first scan to defend his main, then got no more scan to push.
EPT
). Just follow proper eBay timing and the things I mentioned and you would own that drop over and over again if did.
