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Terran FAQ
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Introduction / General
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Eh, whos this noob?
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Hi there, I'm Stylish, 24 year old swedish terran player.
I'm not so well known in the community since I've never participated in any official tournaments or leagues but rather just hang out with my friends and play alot of ICCup.
This, mostly because I don't feel comfortable when playing under preassure and I simply play for fun and enjoy the game.
However, since I've played alot of games and practiced with good swedish players such as; Naugrim, datoby, merz, zpux, sortof, special, runa, haypro, jimpo and many others, I've developed a fair amount of skill over the years.
My previous high rank is A-.
My speciality is Terran vs Zerg, but my Terran vs Protoss is also pretty decent, however in the mirror matchup Terran vs Terran I lack enough skill to give alot of advice since I guess it's somewhere around B-/B rank.
My current ICCup IDs are 404.Stylish, StylishVODs, HaHoHiHahahh (yep) and some smurfs.
My favourite drink is ofcourse the liquid of heaven AKA Redbull and if you ever want to become great at brood war you have to drink atleast two cans/day, but whenever I feel that the quantity of Redbull is getting dangerous I switch to diet coke!
On my freetime I enjoy playing brood war (I don't play other games), playing the guitar, singing, working out and hanging out with my friends partying, watching movies and whatnot.
Currently I'm working as a substitute at schools to get some cash, but this fall I will start studdying medicine and then probably quit brood war.
My favourite players are Flash and Jaedong, but ofcourse Savior, nada, iloveoov and boxer has a special place in my heart!
What's this thread about?
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Since I've decided to quit playing broodwar this fall I wanted to share my knowledge with the terranplayers out there.
I've gotten to know alot of good builds over the time and I don't want them to be forgotten.
This thread is for all terranplayers who are in need of guidence and help with general questions and terran buildorders.
Brood war is a tough game and as a newcomer it's really good to get some help from an experianced player.
Good buildorders are key to improve your mechanics and overall skill and will help you to evolve faster.
This thread includes many First Person VODs where I explain buildorders and execute them while commentating, buildorderlists, replays, but also alot of written information and answers to alot of questions that has been posted in this thread.
Alot of the buildsorders are taken from progamers, but there are also many that I've invented myself or learned from other people.
If you have questions that are not answered in this FAQ feel free to post them in the thread.
I've gotten to know alot of good builds over the time and I don't want them to be forgotten.
This thread is for all terranplayers who are in need of guidence and help with general questions and terran buildorders.
Brood war is a tough game and as a newcomer it's really good to get some help from an experianced player.
Good buildorders are key to improve your mechanics and overall skill and will help you to evolve faster.
This thread includes many First Person VODs where I explain buildorders and execute them while commentating, buildorderlists, replays, but also alot of written information and answers to alot of questions that has been posted in this thread.
Alot of the buildsorders are taken from progamers, but there are also many that I've invented myself or learned from other people.
If you have questions that are not answered in this FAQ feel free to post them in the thread.
I'm a newbe, give me some general tips will ya?
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When utterly new to the game, it's important that you stick with just a few buildorders.
It's not good to use cheese for improving your skill so I would suggest that you execute standard, straight up buildorders every game to improve you mechanics at a fast rate.
Under TvZ and TvP here in FAQ i will explain what buildorders to use. And I would also suggest that you watch the General Tips VODs which can be found under "Extras".
Finally, Brood War is hard, it will take alot time, patience and redbulls to get good. This thread is only to help you out but you will have to do all the hard work.
Many times there are no easy answers or solutions.
I wish you good luck I'm sure you'll climb the ladder soon!
It's not good to use cheese for improving your skill so I would suggest that you execute standard, straight up buildorders every game to improve you mechanics at a fast rate.
Under TvZ and TvP here in FAQ i will explain what buildorders to use. And I would also suggest that you watch the General Tips VODs which can be found under "Extras".
Finally, Brood War is hard, it will take alot time, patience and redbulls to get good. This thread is only to help you out but you will have to do all the hard work.
Many times there are no easy answers or solutions.
I wish you good luck I'm sure you'll climb the ladder soon!
Why do you have a FAQ?
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There have been alot of questions asked in this thread, and many times I feel like I have to answer the same questions over and over again.
To avoid this, I made this FAQ, with help from TL.net user Alexpnd, and here you can find most of the answers I've written in the many pages of this thread.
Please try to find your question in the FAQ before asking in the thread.
To avoid this, I made this FAQ, with help from TL.net user Alexpnd, and here you can find most of the answers I've written in the many pages of this thread.
Please try to find your question in the FAQ before asking in the thread.
Lets move on to questions that have actually been asked!
I always end up supply blocked at some point. How do you recommend microing and macroing (already difficult), while balancing supplies? Do
you just build them as a reflex?
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In early game it's not hard making suplydepots. Keep practicing the buildorders and you will learn in time when to place them.
When doing an attack you can build supply when you go back to macro and in late game you seldom need building supply.
There is no easy way. It's just like macroing, you have to go back and do it every now and then and practice to get the timings better.
Basically, to keep up with supplies, its one supply when you're on two CCs and 2macrobuildings (Barracks or factories) and if you get anything else (more Macrobuildings) its two supplies.
How are you moving the screen so fast, are you using pure hotkeys for moving through the screen, or like clicking your mini map or what? It seems like your mouse sensitivity is higher than standard?
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I use logitech G3 laser, 800dpi I think and about middle speed, without acceleration.
I guess I move my hand fast. I use a combination of hotkeys, click on mini map and scroll screen with mouse when I move the screen.
How do you record your VODS?
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I use GunCam. When a recording is finished i select the video in guncam and press "export video as AVI" -> append selected film -> As Avi -> Xvid Film quality 50 -> name the file and then its finished.
Files shouldn't be too big.
Then I use Camtasia to add commentary and virtual dub to get it together.
I upload at Filefront.com.
I love your stylish mixerskills, what songs do you use?
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So far I've had questions for these tracks. This is just temporary in the FAQ, I will add them under each gamevod later on so you know what is played when its played.
I've got some falling to do - Unknown
Virtual Insanity - Jamiroquai
Jesus Children of America - Steve Wonder
I'd Rather Dance With You - King of Convenience
Baby Driver - Simon & Garfunkel
Octavatium - Dream theatre [Solo @ 10:00]
Stoppin' the love - KT Tunstall
How should I use hotkeys to my advantage in general?
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This is discussed in another great thread here on teamliquid, made by DAy[9].
Check out his podcast about mechanics, and then I also made some input on page 19 and 20. Check it out, I hope it helps.
The thread
TvZ
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General
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What build should I do?
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Different builds for different maps.
But if you want to improve fastest way possible, you should play on somewhat standard maps and execute the 9min Push.
It's my standard build and I suggest that you practice it. You will need to know how to adjust it to various zergstrategies but you can find that information here in FAQ or in my VODs.
But if you want to improve fastest way possible, you should play on somewhat standard maps and execute the 9min Push.
It's my standard build and I suggest that you practice it. You will need to know how to adjust it to various zergstrategies but you can find that information here in FAQ or in my VODs.
Zerg Hot Keys
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Buildings
2 main cc
3 natural
4 rax
5 rax
Units
1 marines
2 marines
3 medics
4 tanks
5 vessel
Late game I don’t have hotkeys for buildings, when I set rally point I do ctrl 4 5 6 7 8 and set rally then take other buildings and do the same. This
way I only need to select my tanks and vessel and hotkey them to 4 and 5 again which is pretty fast.
When does the zerg usually take his gas? How do I know what build he's going to use?
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Gas after pool means he's going 3 hatch but slightly faster lair (or speed lings) than usual with lower economy or fewer lings.
Gas at the same time as pool, or slightly before pool, means 2 hatch. Be sure to scout if he adds Lair quickly after mining the gas.
If he doesn’t get lair fast it means he's going for a speed ling rush before muta or lurk, usually muta.
Gas after 3rd hatch is standard 3hatch. From there they usually go mutalisk, but they can also do a lurker opening.
If they do lurker opening they often add an evolution chamber as well, so be sure to look for one when you scan.
If they don’t take gas and don’t make a 3rd hatch they usually proxy a third hatch somewhere on the map.
When scouting with the scv be sure to look at what pops out of the eggs. If he has 3 larvae saved up when the pool finishes this usually means he's doing 6 or 8 lings, in which case you will need to make a bunker.
If he has 1 or 2 larvae saved up he usually make 4 lings and then only try to kill your scv.
What about turret timings and placement
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Usually you will not need more than 8 turrets. Three in main, natural and two or one at a location where he might want to abuse you, for example the macroarea.
On some maps its harded to defend and you will need to place your turrets differently.
For example on Othello I might need 5 turrets on the cliff to my natural instead of 3, especially if my opponent’s mutalisks are most likely to go there first.
In this case you can have less turrets in you main and keep more units in your main instead, since your natural will be pretty well protected.
2hatch mutalisk have mutalisks finnished at 6minutes.
3hatch mutalisks will finnish at 7 minutes.
One thing to remember is, when you add turrets later than usual it is best to start making the turrets in the location closest to your enemy’s base or the location he is most likely to harass first.
This way your other turrets can be up as late as 7:20 or 7:30.
If you're there directly with a hotkeyed group of marines behind your turret line the mutas won't be able to do much damage.
That’s why you sometimes need 5 turrets on the natural cliff because marines are hard to micro there.
If your opponent continues to produce mutalisks you should continue to produce turrets accordingly.
Will a single mine be enough to kill a larva?
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Yes one mine will kill all three larvae, three mines will kill an egg.
Mech vs Speedlings?
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If he upgrades ling speed first you upgrade vult speed and move out with 3
vults and then lift cc to exp if you want to do a 1factory -> exp build.
If he makes lair first, place exp at the spot to get economical advantage.
Then add armory and 2 factories (total of 3). Add an ebay as you transfer to your exp and then cut scvs to be able to make 3 goliaths and upgrade armor, range + make a few turrets in time. This has actually worked really well for me on iccup.
Or you can do the Mech vs 2 Hatch which is explained in the VOD of the same name.
Would you recommend sending out a slightly earlier scout at low ranks?
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When I play iccup, especially on low ranks I make 10rax and 10scout to be on the safe side.
If you do this, or anything else that might delay your economy(such as making an early bunker) don’t care so much about the supply count of your build but rather the order in which you build buildings.
You can adapt the strat to early scout/10 rax with for example a marine stop production for 5-6 seconds at a certain point or whatever.
So yes, I think it’s good to play safe, specially on low ranks of iccup.
I’d like to know what to do when zerg just has too many units?(duh)
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Well basically if your first push gets completely stopped it means that he either did a good counter build or that his mechanics are just better.
Sometimes there no other answer than to improve your mechanics by playing more games.
A general tip is to resort to harrass when the opponent is too strong for open battle. Dropships and multitask are key here while macroing at home.
Having trouble with zergs taking double gas on longinus sunks up and makes few lurks and 4 gas
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9minpush should be able to punish him before the hivetech kicks in if he decides to take a fast third base. Specially if he makes no mutalisks, since then you won't need to make turrets but can make more barracks instead.
If you somehow cannot defeat him with the 9minpush, switch things up alittle and do the a-yu-mi build. After that he won't dare taking a third again ^^
When should i place my comsats if i face 3hatch or 2hatch, and where do I scan?
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Don't be lazy, watch the VODs!
TvZ 9min Push and TvZ 2Hatch counter.
Delaying scans for as long as possible will give you greater economy and more units.
There is no way you're going to be able to scan 3 hatches with 2 scans if he places them far apart. You just have to look at other things to be sure what tech he goes.
For example look at his larvas, if you see that he saves up 9 larvas and not morphing them to eggs it usually means that he is going mutalisks.
Otherwise you can assume that he is doing some other tech.
Also be sure to not always scan straight on the hatcherys, but rather between them so you might actually scan over a larger area of creep than you would if you scan right on top of a hatchery.
Late game, I move around to kill his expansion and I end up killing his third, but the zerg dark swarms my natural and pours in lurkers. How should prevent this, or in the worse case, defend against this?
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When doing a push against zerg with vessel tanks and marines usually you aim for his natural/main. This way he cannot sneak through with swarm and a lot of units to your natural.
While doing the attack you can sometimes use the units in you natural not to reinforce but rather to send towards expansions.
Either walk there or make drops to be able to get them there faster.
If you somehow end up being somewhere with your army and you notice delifers and lurkers running towards your natural, bring all the units you have in the natural forward to meet the zerg units as far out as possible. If he gets to burrow under dark swarm in you natural you are toast!
Any tips or strategies on not getting vessels sniped?
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There is no easy way to protect the vessels. Try to keep them in range of your marines and always watch out for scourges, if you see any move the vessel back to safety. In late game when zerg has ultras and defilers it can be useful to sacrifice some vessels to get important irradiates off. Beware of plague though if they are stacked.
When do you usually get a dropship and how do you use them?
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I usually drop at the same time as I’m making a push. If dropships are used with multitasking, it will cause more damage.
When dropping in zerg main or expansion target nydus first if he has one, then drones -> spire -> pool -> defiler/evo chambers.
If you are doing a timing push and the zerg has just recently gotten his defiler mound up then target the defiler mound before spire. But you must know that you're able to kill it before consume is finished.
I usually have 7 marines and 1 medic in a dropship.
I've noticed that Idra tends to get 2+ attack on tanks and get 3 fac tank going against hive play. How do you feel this stacks against the normal 2 port M&M play?
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I usually do not resort to mass tanks. That is good if you take expansions and plan to play defensively but my style is rather to multitask and be aggressive.
I like to add a third Star Port if I get more than 2 gasses and sometimes even switch to battle cruisers, if only some.
So what’s the counter to the ROFL strat?
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It can't be countered. SCVs are invincible.
Screw you zerg players.
[input endless laughter]
In the EE timing, getting the +1 amour upgrade makes marines die in 3 hits to lurkers and sunkens, but if you stim it does back to 2....what is the point of the
armour?
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Usually, most units won't be healed before the attack occurs. However, after the time it takes for the sunkens to fire the first few shots, other marines
will be at full health thus taking 3 hits from sunkens/lurkers.
This, plus the armor will help vs mutalisks and zerglings, it will also be great when his lurkers are morphed.
Attack upgrade is important vs mutalisks and 1armor lings.
Hence, both 1 attack and 1 armor is key in this build.
What builds do you like for Longinus?
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Longinus is great for 14 cc at pos 6 and 3.
Ayumi build is good for pos 11.
What to do vs a zerg who expands alot or techs fast to hive?
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This means he cannot spend that money on units, thus you can punish him with an earlier attack such as the 9minpush.
If he overextends himself by taking a fast 4th base, the logic works the same, he will spend money on buildings rather than spending it on units and thus can also be punished by a faster attack.
How do you generally play 2base terran vs 3base zerg or 3base terran vs 4base zerg?
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2base terran vs 3base zerg lategame.
Since its lategame, usually it means that your first big attack wasn't succesful enough to end the game.
Zerg is going to tech to hive and try to expand one more time.
What you need to do here is to put constant preassure on his different bases and try to sneak in a drop here and there to force him to produce constant units and therefor he cannot tech to ultralisks.
In this case you will need 8+ rax and 2starport vessel/dropship action.
If you at any point notice that you wont be able to stop him from securing a 4th base you need to take a third yourself and either add a second factory and start producing tanks if you mean to be defensive for a while before moving out or add a third starport (if the expansion has gas) and definately 3-4 more barracks if you're going to be offensive.
3base terran vs 4base zerg(ultratech usually)
Since my playstyle is very agressive, I'd rather add a third starport to make vessels and keep constant preassure. This way you will most likely irradiate his ultralisks far from your base and the action will take place far away from your expansions.
Be sure to use the lone factory to make vultures/mines aswell and always send scvs out in different directions to scout any possible small group of zergunits with a defiler heading towards your expansions.
If you are more of a defensive player you should rather make a second factory and sometimes even a third, specially if you only have 1 starport already.
2-3fact tanks are able to defend vs ultrlisks pretty well and when you make a move with 10+ tanks you are going to be quite strong vs any groundunits.
The reason why you cannot make vessles without tanks if you are a defensive player is that you cannot afford irradiate on ultralisks that are close to your base since they will actually just cause more damage if the health hasn't gone down alot before they attack you.
I do suggest practicing the first method because it will help you improve your multitasking and being aggressive overall wich is a great attribute vs any zergplayers imo.
How do you stop a 4, 5 or 6pool when making rax at 11?
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- Wall vs 6pool.
This should not be a problem, wall will be complete before zerglings arrive. 6zerglings require you to bring 3-4 scvs for repair. - Wall vs 5/4pool.
In this case your build is being softcountered. You will sometimes not be able to finnish the second suply and thus not repair it. Now its important that you bring 7-9 SCVs to the wall as soon as possible, while making a bunker close to your CC. Rally the first marine to the bunker and block the wall with scvs at the location of the unfinnished suply.
This will stall him long enough for the bunker to complete.
After the first marine is finnished, lift of the rax and float it to your main and do a 2rax aca build from there. You will need to micro your only marine back and forth and be ready to repair the bunker. Its not easy. - 11 rax vs 6,5,4pool.
Again, this is not the ideal rushtiming for zerg, 4-5pool is much faster/better.
Here you do the same thing basically. Bring SCVs stacked to the ramp, make bunker close to CC and rally marines to bunker. Be sure to place your first rax in a position so that the marine doesn't have to walk far to get to the bunker.
Once you have 1 marine in the bunker, bring back the scvs.
Same reaction for 4-5-6pool in this scenario.
Follow up with 2rax academy usually.
If you do this and still lose, it's probably because of your micro. Its not easy facing lingrush when you do 11 rax, but its doable.
Watch my 4poolstop in the VODthread if you haven't already.
9min Push
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How do you deal with a 9 pool when you make the TvZ 9minPush's build with the second supply at 16?
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When barrack is finnished, move SCV to expansionlocation and place a bunker. Cut one SCV to be able to make 2 marines before the second suply is finnished. From here continue with the 9min push.
Zerg goes for 9pool speed when I’m going 9min push and zerg always prevents me from taking natural with lings outside my base. Conclusion is that I get too poor and low scv count and zerg overwhelms.
Do you change your build order when z goes for that kinda strat?
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You have to switch the build, making an early gas/aca after first or second supply to make a later CC after bat/medic is out.
From 9poolspeed you cannot really continue with the 9minpush strat, you have to switch things up, but the zerg gets so economically behind that i don't mind playing vs a zerg that opens 9pool speed.
How do I handle lingattacks early on?
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Since you have early 2rax it means you will have quite a lot of marines early on.
In fact you have more marines early on than the fast academy 3rax
build, especially during the time when zerg attacks with early speed lings. Try to keep your marines on the ramp and have rally point with the rax on top of the ramp.
Practice your reaction time and at the moment he runs in with lings you take scvs from natural and click on a mineralpatch in your main. Stop the scvs when they are blocking the marines.
How often do you actually move out exact at the 9min mark in real games?
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Sometimes the push is delayed.
But usually only with a couple of seconds depending on how well you multitask micro, scv scout and execute the build order at the same time.
Usually if you need to add another turret or two, you can miss one scv production or two, and your cash will still be enough for making the tech building.
What differs most is the supply when you move out. If zerg had a successful mutaharass you will have like 5-15 less supply when you move out.
But if you think of it, other strategies, like the standard 9:40 push will also be delayed if his mutas are successful.
When his mutas arrive at your base, if you've done the build properly, they'll most likely meet a wall of 3 turrets with marines behind it.
When is it an Ideal time to put down more barracks in the 9minpush. At about 75-80 supply add more?
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After you started making Vessel + upgr 2-1
Add them 1 by one rather than saving up 450 for three at the same time.
This will get you more marines and enough for a dropship.
Is it decent idea to add 2nd fac as same time as port or after?
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I usually go with a second port in late game rather than second factory but it depends. Heavy lurkerbuild without hive should be countered with 2 fact not 2 port, in which case i usually add the second factory while building the starport
In this case you will have to delay the making of a Vessel, and can invest in a dropship or a wraith instead.
How do you adjust the 9min push to what the zerg does?
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If zerg rushes to hive, it means that he's spending money on tech. This means he cannot spend that money on units, thus you can punnish him with an earlier attack such as the 9minpush.
If he overextends himself by taking a fast 4th base, the logic works the same, he will spend money on buildings rather than spending it on units and thus can also be punnished by a faster attack.
Here is a list of some adjustments for the 9minpush.
If hive is morphing when your vessel is out, push out.
4 bases lair tech when your vessel is out, push out.
3 bases with lair tech when vessel is out, wait for second vessel, skip dropship.
Lair tech when second vessel is out, wait for 2-1 upgrades, 7 tanks and 3vessels.
2hatch mutalisk, make bunker in natural and make a rax instead of factory. Tech if he's switching to lurkers, otherwise add more raxes and attack him when you feel safe from mutas.
9pool, make bunker after rax is finnished, then CC, continue with 9minpush.
9pool speed, make refinary/aca after second suply, make 4marines 2bats 1medic and move out to force him make sunkens while you place cc at spot or to lift off from your main.
Ultralisk rush (2base), when starport is finnished make a drop and drop his main, be sure to make some bats for this drop. from here do SKTerran and vultures with mines.
3hatch lurker. Stay on two raxes for a while, add second factory while making startport, make dropship first. Make a few bunkers in your natural and research armor first.
2hatch lurker, make second factory while making starport. make a wraith first to kill overlords, add bunkers in natural and one in main. Be careful, he might do a dualdrop or allin front.
Often times I see people do a build that gets both their Ebay nad Academy before their 2nd Rax. Do they just get both ebay and academy before the 2nd rax to have more rines/ +1 attack to fight off against mutas?
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Thats to get +1 for the muta harass. Also early academy will allow faster stim and a faster bat/medic so you can move out and pressure his natural expansion without having to worry too much about zerglings.
If you do this, you should follow up by adding 2 barracks, for a total of 3 barracks and then try to get mapcontrol in the early midgame (before lurkers are morphed).
Do you follow your main 9min standard build until you scout a variation in the zerg’s strategy? Like let’s say you see a 2 hatch muta. Do you kick off with 9min bo, then switch to the "2 hatch counter", because you don’t know from the start whether he is going 2 hatch?
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Most of my games I start with 11 rax and then scout so I can adapt to what he does. But that doesn't mean that I start every game knowing I will try the 9minpush.
But I suggest lower ranked players to do this, since playing 1 strat over and over again will improve your play faster.
Usually you will only need how to adapt to 2hatchmuta or 3hatchmuta.
Also good to know how to open vs 9pool or 9poolspeed.
On your 9min standard bo, Why is ur Depot at 16? Won’t that create a supply block?
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Depot at 16 will not stall marine production if you make 1 marine before CC. If you want to feel safer and make 2 marines before the cc you can add supply on 14 or 15 instead.
Is there a reason you did not apply pressure to the zerg before he got mutas( to make him put a few more sunks down, which you could of easily done?
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I don't put pressure because the 9minpush usually doesn't include firebats. So it’s a bit risky moving out like that but it’s possible.
This strat is more about letting zerg get his third up and punish him before its effective. You can move out a little bit though and hopefully he will make some sunkens
What to do vs 2hatch muta into guardians?
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This is explained in my 2 Hatch counter VOD.
When you adjust to 2hatch muta with the 9minpush you add a 3rd rax instead of the factory at the timing you place a fact.
Keep scanning his main to see if he switches to lurkers. If he doesn’t switch to lurkers, keep making turrets and barracks and move out when you have enough units.
If he's teching towards hive, you can either add a total of 5 rax and try to kill him at a timing before his guardians are finished, or you can tech towards starport and add 2/3 star ports making wraiths.
If he switches to lurkers after a few mutalisks you should also tech up.
The most annoying thing is when zerg sends muta to your main while sending speed lings to kill turrets. On destination I pretty much lose to the initial 11 mutas alone.
How do you deal with this?
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Since you don't move out to take his third with a bunch of units this strategy is even safer vs mutalisks imo.
You will have 18-20 marines when he comes with mutalisks. Split them up into 10 and 10 and stay close to the turrets with 2 medics in each group. 2-3 turrets + 10marines backing up is enough for 9 or 11 mutalisks, rine reinforcements coming all the time as well.
There shouldn't be a problem if you practice and the micro is executed well.
Be sure to place the turrets on 3 spots, natural, main and another area in your base to cover the gap window of the natural/main turrets and your macro area.
If you play artosis strat and don't move out for his third its ofcourse even safer vs mutalisks since you will have like 5-6 more marines at that time but then you take away the advantage of that build in the early midgame.
Whats the difference between you 9min push, the artosis build and petzerglings build?
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Ok so the difference between "artosis strat", "my strat" and "petzerglings strat" for those that have asked.
Artosis strategy is really solid. Its also pretty safe. The main issue with this strategy is that you get 2 suplys before the CC (at 19) academy before second barrack and then you tech towards vessel once you have 3 barracks.
You stop marineproduction for a little while on 6 marines to be able to afford building 2barracks and an ebay at the perfect timing.
You start building medics and firebats once the academy is finnished.
Your tech will be 40 seconds after the 9min Push but you will be able to preassure the opponents third or natural.
9minpush vs artosis strat: (i'll call them that even if we are not the inventors to make it easier)
With artosis strategy you will have CC on 19 which is slightly slower (9minpush at 18)but slightly safer(because 2 marines instead of 1 when place CC), this howerver is no big issue.
A major difference is that you will stop production at 6 marines to afford constant scv production and the arcitecture needed for this build.
At 5 minutes you will have 6 marines and be pretty vulnurable to speedlings.
(If you have good scoutingskills and are able to stay alive very long this sometimes is not a problem coz you can make more marines if you see him massing lings, but most of the time he will be able to kill your scv before you know if there is going to be some sort of early attack.)
with the 9minpush you will have 11 marines at 5 minutes for the same lingrush.
(this is very good on iccup for example when people usually try something like that, however if the zerg infact doesn't rush you, then its not ideal. Since the scv dies before im able to scout this usually i go with the safer strat and 11 marines is much better than 6. However if im actually scouting that he cannot be doing any rush like this then i can also stop marineproduction and tech faster, its good to know a build, but when you know it in and out you have to know how to adjust aswell.)
At 6 minutes you will be able to have 10marines 2 bats and 2 medics with artosis strat. This is when you should move towards zergs natural or his third expansion (if he has one, usually doesn't so push towards natural to make him make sunkens). With the 9min Push you will have 11 marines and 2 medics at this point.
(Now here its obviously better with 2medics and 2firebats. You will be able to put preassure on the zergs natural. You may ofcourse move out with 11rines + 2medics and get the same effect most of the times but its abit more risky. So in this case artosis strat is better imo.)
Your factory will start making at about 6:10 with artosis strat and 5:30 with the 9min push.
(This is obviously in favour for the 9min push. Your vessel will be out sooner, both strats have 3 tanks by then and you can get 40 seconds faster 2-1 upgrades.)
Artosis strategy will let you have enough units in the early midgame to be able to take out zergs third sometimes. The 9min push will not alow this usually because you are macroing from 2 barracks and not 3 as in artosis strategy.
(Its ofcourse very good to be able to take his third out and still be able to defend vs mutalisks, or cause him to waste his mutalisks to try to kill your units. If he has very good mutalisk harass this can sometimes be risky specially when moving up a ramp to kill an expansion.)
You move out with 1 vessel 3tanks +units at 9minutes and 40 seconds with artosis startegy.
You move out with 1 vessel 3tanks +units at 9minutes with the 9min Push.
(This is obviously better for the 9min push, but know that with artosis strategy the zerg might have lost his third, and usually your units that killed it will be dead aswell. When you move out to take it he can grab his opportunity to make more damage with his mutalisks while many units are out of town. So he can sometimes make you pay when you make him pay. Specially if he has produced lings and mutalisks for a "backstab".
With the 9min push you will be safe from this and let the zerg get his eco going, but move out in time for it not to be effective. And I like that.)
So in general the major differences with these strategies are:
Artosis strategy will make you more powerful in the early midgame, but tech slower towards vessel.
The 9min push will make you abit safer from mutalisks (since you stay at home with units) and tech up faster but you will let the zerg get his third up with ease.
The 9minpush is stronger in lategame because faster 2-1 upgrades and more vessels/tanks for lategame, but also the zerg will be stronger if he doesn't take alot of damage with the push since he gets his third up.
In my oppinion: A stronger terran armys power increases exponentially if zerg has no swarm. This is better for the 9minpush, you have bigger army zerg has bigger army will benefit you rather than smaller army vs smaller army.
The strength of the 9min push is to attack just in time for the zergs third to not provide enough economyboost and drop his main at the same time with dmatrix drop. This is usually a big problem for the zergs. You can also decide to use that dropship to drop his third, but i like the dmatrix thing to make him waste scourges and take out important buildings.
With the 9min Push you have the possibility to scan right before you move out, and if you see him powering you can wait for second vessel, scan again and if you see still no hive wait for 2-1 and move out. You should do the same with artosis strategy but the same moves will be delayed with 40 seconds. Also the zergs eco is damaged (IF you are successful with the early preassure, this is not certain) so the delay with 40 seconds is not as big as it seems when the zerg doesnt hive.
I play the 9min Push because it fucks up the zerg timings and is easier to execute. You don't have to focus so much on multitask early game and you have only 2 scvs building things (1 for suply 1 for tech) which gives you greater economy. Its also safer vs a mutalisk/ling backstab in the early midgame.
Both strategies are good and i suggest that you learn both of them if you want to play standard vs same opponent over and over again to mix things up.
Now to move on to petzerglings strategy (i'll call it his strat to make it easier).
The big difference here is that he places 1 suply before CC instead of 2. This will make your economy greater, and you are able to tech to vessel on 3 barracks instead of two and only lose 5-10 seconds on your factory timing.
This is better in every way than the 9min push if you scout him on the first try, but too risky if you don't. I am going to make a VOD of how to execute a build like this because it is indeed better on a two player map. As you've noticed I've shown the 9minpush on 4playermaps (also good for 3playermaps) but not on 2playermaps. Thats because 1suply-> exp is stronger in all ways than 2suply expansion.
However i suggest that you use the 9min push as your standard strategy anyway, because if you want to play one strategy over and over again to improve your mechanics and gamesense its not good to switch things up too much and the 1suply-exp really only works on a 2player map on a regular basis
Thats my thought on these matters, if anyone else has another oppinion please explain why and i'll try to answer to that.
edit* I have not read through petzerglings strategy that careful, so all this thinking is if he posted the correct way to execute such a build. But im fairly certain by taking a brief look at it that its solid.
In the end, ofcourse its better to adjust between these three builds and choose the best one for every game, but this only if you are already a good player. For the lesser player i suggest not to mix things up so much to improve mechanics faster and get used to a build.
All builds are precise and good. Only that artosis build hasn't the full buildorder written out.
Also i guess i chose the 9minpush because of my bias towards flash!
What is the counter to a 2 base hydra build? When I am playing the standard 9min push
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Assume you mean 2hatch lurker. If not it’s pretty much the same counter.
Get a second factory while adding starport, get additional bunkers in your natural.
Rape him with tanks.
What is a good way to adjust this build to 3 hatch lurker and lings - if Z decides not to go muta?
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There are different ways to adjust.
Normally i would add a second factory and delay the vessel for a bit and push out with about 5-6tanks and a vessel.
Or you could add more rax pressure him early with m&m keeping him in his base, while slower teching to 2fact tanks and a vessel.
While delaying the vessel you will have some extra gas and can use that to make a dropship. This is especially good if he has no spire, since lurkers are so slow.
Remember that if you don't see a spire you should use the turretmoney to either make more rax and be able to pressure him or make 2 bunkers and don’t stop scv production.
How do I counter 2 hatch lurks (Fast Expand and/or quick Hive)
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2Hatch lurk usually means all-in at the front or drop in main and natural at the same time. Therefore you have to make 2 medics and then 2 bats and
move outside zergs natural for a while to force him to make sunkens. Then draw back after you've delayed the lurkers for a little while and build 2 bunkers at home.
When moving out with the first 10marines 2bats and 2medics, bring 1 scv also to scout expansions. If he has one you will be able to kill it with this initial troop.
When you have 6 marines use an scv to scout towards his natural. If you see him getting speed before the scv dies with his lings you will have to be aware of a ling break. I usually make a bunker for this, keep my units in my ramp and be ready to pull scvs.
Continue with the 9minpush build, but when the star ort is finished i make a second factory and science facility at the same time, i skip second ebay and also the first upgrade should be armor and not attack. The 100 gas that was meant for +1 attack in the second ebay will now go into the factory.
Don’t make a drop ship, 2hatch lurker is aggressive build, you cannot afford leaving your base this early.
Add rax for a total of 4 rax, 2fact 1 port and remember to keep some units in your main awaiting lurker drop, but close enough to the natural that you can siege up on the cliff.
Also remember that you only need 1 vessel. After that i usually make a drop ship and pretty much use my gas to make tanks.
Once the vessel is out you can scan, since if its not out you need all energy to scan drops and whatnot, his base and see if he's going hive or if he's trying to macro up. The important thing to know is that once you've defended the early attack or drop, you are ahead, specially with 2 factories making tanks, so you don't have to be hasty. Move out when you feel comfortable doing so, for example with 6+tanks.
Always time your attack if you see him teching to hive. You know approximately how long it will take for your troops to arrive at his base. Aslong as
you get there before his consume is finished its always good to have the largest amount of tanks you can have and still make it in time.
If he's not teching to hive, you can very well wait for 8+ tanks or whatever because you have a more economical opening if he 2hatches and will only get further and further ahead as the game goes on.
One important thing is, that you probably need to add atleast 2 bunkers pretty early on in your expansion vs a 2hatch lurkerbuild. This, and also as soon as you notice a drop coming, be prepared that he will most likely drop both main and expansion at the same time.
How do I counter 3 hatch lurks (Fast Expand and/ or quick Hive)?
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3 hatch lurker is a pretty strong opening imo sine it’s so uncommon.
I will mostly cover the 3hatch expansion build here because it’s not often I've faced 3hatch-> hive from only 2 bases so I guess I have to play it some
more before being able to give you the proper counter.
Anyway vs 3hatch lurk->exp->hive;
I usually go with the same 9minpush vs 3hatch lurker with the exception that I don’t make turrets but 2 bunkers instead. You can also do the same 10marine 2bats 2medics pressure in the early game to force him making sunkens and let an scv scout the map.
Proceed with the 9minpush but after star port make science facility and factory and a second ebay.
When control tower is finished, make a drop ship. This will give you an additional 125 gas for not making a fast vessel which can be layed on +upgrade in ebay and making a fact. You will be a little gas short but then just wait a few seconds to make the tank or whatever.
The point is to use early drop ship at his exp or his main because his lack of spire and at the same time provide you with enough gas to make tanks from 2 factories.
You can pretty much delay the first vessel, start making it when you have started making your 3rd and 4th tank. While it's making make a 5th and a
6th tank and push out when vessel is finished usually. Of course make another scan before moving out and if you see him not teching to hive wait for
2-1 and then move out.
How do I counter 3 hatch mutas ( stays into mutas)?
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Do the 9minpush build, it will rape muta only build on 3hatcherys. Just remember to notice that his mutas are reinforced so you can place more turrets. Start out with the same amount and then add more one by one.
Fast tech to vessels, fast tech to 2-1, pretty fast 5rax going and easy to defend vs mutas in early game.
Move out when second vessel is finished, or even wait for 2-1 upgrades if he's not teching to hive.
From here, of course follow up with a second star port and also get energy upgrade for vessels.
How do I counter 3 hatch mutas (quick hive)?
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Do the standard 9minpush.
Help! Early Mutaling attack on my choke!
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When placing a bunker, don't place it in a vulnerable location.
If placing a bunker, it’s always good to place a supply depot right next to it, to hinder zerg from surrounding it, but don’t block so scvs cannot repair.
Narrow passages are your friend in these kinds of situations. Place a bunker closer to the ramp and then a supply close to it, this will create a narrow passage, and when the zerg goes for the attack, pull marines back to the ramp and then attack while reinforcing with the marines that are already in your main.
This will be 1 bunker and approx 15-20 marines in a narrow passage at a ramp, zerg cannot break this with lings/muta that early.
Here is a replay of a game where zerg tried something like this, however i don't use bunker, but i use the ramp and narrow passages to my advantage.
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=9362
A-Yu-Mi
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When do I go for this build order?
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When the zerg is doing 3hatch muta or lurker.
You will be able to break his sunkenline before his units are ready and hopefully win the game.
I wouldn't suggest doing the a-yu-mi vs a 2hatch build.
If I play against other build than 3 Hatch (so 2 Hatch in most cases) is this build still viable?
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In the case you already started executing the build and find out he's doing 2hatch.
Skip SCVs earlier and make a faster academy.
Get 4 medics 1 round earlier, and attack.
Zerg will be forced to defend the attack with his mutalisks rather than attacking your base. If you add E-bay when you move out you will be able to have turrets up in time when he has killed your units. Because you have no range, sunkens + mutalisk will probably kill your attack. But it will give you time to build turrets.
From there he will have few drones (coz he made sunkens from 2hatch build) and you will have turrets + 4barracks.
Defend until you get range and then usually move out, or just keep making scvs, defend and tech up to vessels.
What should I do if the zerg has like 10-12 lings outside my base and just waits for me to move out, then backstab me?
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After your medic round make 2 bats 1rine and 1 medic and still move out. If he decides to backstab you there are 2 bats and a medic who can clean lings up with the help of scvs.
If there is a ramp, pull scvs and block, what happens is basically that zerg has his units at your base while he really needs them at home.
However if he anticipates your strategy and place 6 sunkens while he is stabbing your base you are pretty much at a disadvantage. The A-Yu-Mi is not a standard build, it has its weaknesses.
Is it a bad idea to use A-yu-mi on Destination, because of the long distance between base and the dual bridges at the nat?
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Yes I do not like to use the A-yu-mi on maps where it is hard to sunken break, such as maps with far distances or narrow passages in front of the sunkens.
Destination is a great map for SKTerran and Mech.
What is the counter to A-yu-mi?
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The general counter for the a-yu-mi build is to 2hatch lurker and succeed with a hold lurker or a drop.
If you're already on 3 hatch place 6 sunkens and tech to lurkers+drop.
Lurkers is the better option either way since terran will have slow tech and drop can really hurt a terran without tanks.
When you're doing the A-Yu-Min, you're doing a 1rax FE. I know that when Zerg players scout this, they usually like to apply some early ling pressure, which often leads to the Terran player investing in a bunker. How does this affect the timing of the push?
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I think I talk about this in the Game-VOD about A-Yu-Mi.
Since you are constantly producing marines from a 10rax, only 8lings will cause you to make a bunker.
If this is the case then you must skip 2 scvs (1 from each cc) the round before you make the 3 extra raxes. This requires that you know the exact timing of when to place the raxes.
Actually this is not that bad though since the zerg loses early economy as well.
The timing will be approximately the same.
Does the A-Yu-Min work against any 3 hatch build? Or is it a specific counter to 3hatch Mutas? Does it work against something like 3 hatch lurkers?
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Yes it works vs all 3hatch builds.
What if he makes 2hatch lurker?
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A-yu-mi build is not good vs 2hatch lurker. You will have to move out earlier and stall his lurkers and upgrade armor. From here try to keep mapcontrol and trande marines vs lurkers as much as you can while teching towards tanks and dropships.
Mech
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Fantasy B.O. What do I do when the enemy goes for Hydras? Or muta + hydra
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I always lift the rax when I move out with the vulture and land it in front of my natural to be able to produce rines and add a bunker if he's doing a fast hydra rush.
Also be sure to lay alot of mines in a straight line from his base to your base.
If he combines muta/hydra you can do a timing push towards his third with like 3 valks and 6++ goliaths before he gets his hydras up or you can make 6 factories and do a timing push which includes scv stop production for a while with about 3 tanks and about 20 goliaths.
Wait until you have 1-1 to push out or be sure to at least have 1-1 when the battle is going on.
Fantasy build vs. opponent who opens 3 Hatch, have you encountered this response where they switch tech to pure Hydralisk off of those 3 Hatches and go for a full-on nat break with oveerlord speed?
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Yes it’s very common. Float the rax to your expansion as soon as vulture is finished.
If you scout a hydra den, make a bunker and start producing marines also lay some mines close to the bunker. If you scout it in time, don’t make a valkyrie only a wraith, otherwise just make 1 valkyrie.
Don’t upgrade range with goliaths, add factory instead of range.
Make tanks from 1 fact and goliaths from 1 fact and be ready to pull many scv to repair the bunker.
You will have 1 bunker w/ 4 marines. Some mines outside the bunker. 1 tank at least and about 3 goliaths + 10 scvs repairing the bunker.
This usually is enough to defeat 15+ hydralisks.
If they attack with more its too late and you have siege mode.
Is Mech good on Medusa?
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Medusa startpos 11 and 6 is good for wallin with mech opening.
Medusa starting pos 3 is better for some sort of 14 cc with the walling or the 8rax Mech opening because you cannot wall with only 2 buildings.
Any advice on start locations with wide backings? Ie. medusa? I mean as far as turret placement, and defense especially v. mutas
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If you do valks with mech you generally dont need more than 1-2 turrets at 3 locations. Main, natural and factoryarea.
If you dont have valks I suggest you add like 4-5 turrets at your main cc 2 lowground 3 highground
while you keep goliaths at natural and only like 1-2 turrets there.
I was wondering if its good to go mech or 2port wraith on longinus in tvz?
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I wouldn't suggest it, but its very doable. Specially mech builds.
But since Longinus is pretty good for standard TvZ Bio you shouldn't complicate things.
Do you have to counter 3hatch muta with the fantasy build if you're going mech? How do you adjust the 2hatch counter mech to 3 hatch counter?
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If you see that he's doing 3hatch you can use the 2hatch mech build but you don’t need armory or ebay as fast, rather take expansion earlier.
You can produce vults from 2 fact, but vs 3hatch you really have to be able to do some damage with them, not just mapcontrol.
Or you can just go 1fact speed vult specially on noramp maps and get 3-4 speedvult and try a runby while you take a really fast expansion and then go for 6 factorypush.
However the fantasy build is pretty standard and has no obvious weaknesses.
How do you adjust 8rax mech into different zergbuilds?
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If he does 3hatch muta you will most likely get an easy win with alot of speedvultures sneaking into his main.
If he does 2hatch muta you will still produce alot of vultures and damage his economy while making ebay armory without taking an expansion. He will most likely lose alot of drones and then attack with his first 6 mutalisks and then you should have 2 turrest in your mineral line, 2 turrets at your factories and 2 - 4 goliaths finnished and there is no problem.
From here make a CC in your main and float it towards the expansion.
If he's doing hydralisks only from 2 or 3 hatch you should keep producing vultures and upgrade mines after speed is finnished. Try to sneak by, but if you cannot do this lay mines all over the place while taking a fast expansion and from there add 2 more factories and switch to vults/tanks and add academy so you can scout if he's switching to mutas.
You dont have to add ebay or refinary until after the 4th factory is finnished.
Vs any sort of lurkerbuild just abuse mines, expand and tech towards tanks goliaths and comsats.
2 Port warith
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How do you prevent a 2 Hatch Lurker Slow Drop?
Are the 3rd and 4th Wraith out in time to kill any Overlords around your base?
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Any sort of fast lurker openings is pretty much countered by the 2port strategy. Slow overlords won’t last long vs a 2port opening. Also your vults will see any attempt to sneak hydras out on the map for morphing.
Yes the 3rd 4th wraith is out in time to shoot the OL down.
When do you build your Academy/Engineering Bay if you scout a 2 Hatch Lurker opening?
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If I scout 2hatch lurker It’s very possible that you're going to kill him with wraiths only. Just make sure to place the Ebay after the 4th wraith. Make marines out of 1 rax make a turret and 1 or 2 bunkers if he attempts to break you.
You won’t need academy unless you fuck up with the wraiths.
But I guess it’s good to make it just in case, probably sometime after the Ebay.
If you see your opponent going Mutalisks/Scourge, when do you build the Control Tower/research Cloak?
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After 6 wraiths. The 2hatch build will produce scourges so that you have time to kill about 3 drones and one overlord with the initial 2 wraiths.
After that get back to your main and let the scourges die to turrets while you wait for more wraiths to be able to micro vs scourges.
In this case you should also lift the rax and float it closer to the turrets once his first mutas or scourges has left your base.
Follow up with 3rax ebay aca -> exp and get mapcontrol.
Do you land your Factory in your main again in order to produce Siege Tanks/research Siege Mode?
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Vs mutalisks you usually don’t have to float it back. I'd rather have it floating in his expansion so it can draw mutalisk fire and scourges while also giving you vision of where his mutas are so you know where you can snipe drones.
Vs lurker openings I would suggest that if wraiths only doesn’t work you could mix in a drop ship with marines and medics.
Float ffactory back to main if he goes for lurkers.
Is it possible to do a transition from a 2port wraith into some mech build?
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It’s not really a standard thing to switch from Wraiths to mech because you will lack in gas and have to rely on vultures for a while after the wraiths.
The normal response to wraiths is doing hydralisk speed with overlord speed and that would beat a rather late transition into vultures before being able to produce gas heavy tanks or gols and wouldn't give a mech opening any specific advantage.
With wraiths you want to damage his economy and make him waste economy on hydra tech + overlords which is later countered with a strong m&m build.
After 2port wraith it’s better to transition into marines. Try then to get hold of the position outside zerg’s bridges(on destination).
That way only a few marines + medics will be a lot stronger and you prevent zerg from taking more expansions.
However never let the hydralisks get hold of your bridges. If you let him do that quickly open the back passage mineral to be able to move out, since it’s going to be pretty hard without tanks.
What if they counter your 2port with hydras?
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Yes you still make like 6-8 wraiths and try to snipe his drones. If those aren’t any successful you have to switch. 2 Port isn't easy, you have to micro those wraiths really good for it to be effective.
14 CC
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When and why should I do this build?
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14 CC is great on maps where you can make a lingproof wall outside your natural, such as Longinus and Medusa.
The strategy will give you great economics and you'll be able to have more macrobuildings and units at 9min than with the 9min push.
Its solid vs all builds except 4/5 pool on wallable maps.
What should I focus on in the early game?
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14 CC will usually force zerg into a 2hatch build or taking a fast third base.
When academy is finnished, make 2 medics asap and then 2 bats. When the bats are finnished, move out and dont forget to bring another scouting scv at the same time for scouting possible third expansions. Move towards his base to force him into making sunkens and then go take out his third base if he has one.
Its crucial that you use your first scouting scv to see if he does a 2hatch build or not. As soon as you've gotten enough info use that scv to scout for possible third bases aswell. Since you dont need to look for lings or anything like that, you dont need to stay in his base very long.
When making the wall, be sure to pull 3-4 scvs for repair ASAP if you see 6 lings coming fast. If he 9pools you need good reflexes here.
How do I know what build zerg does without staying in his base for long?
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If zerg adds his gas at the same time as his pool, he's going to do a 2hatch build.
In this case, keep the scv in his base as long as possible, remember that if he's going to 2hatch lurk, his den must start building before his lair is finnished.
If zerg adds gas after pool it usually means that he's going 3hatch. Even if you only scout 2hatcheries he can very well have placed his third hatchery in another expansion to catch up to the 14cc.
If he takes his gas pretty slow you dont need to stay in his base long with the scv, just wait for a while and then start searching out expansions.
]So what if he does 2hatch muta?
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If he does any sort of 2hatch build, you must add comsats sooner. Preferable when range is almost halfway finnished.
You will only need 3 rax to defend vs 2hatch muta and will have minerals over for turrets. Usually i tech up to vessel even if he 2hatch muta when i do 14cc but you could also skip factory and make 3 more rax for a total of 6 and then add factory.
You will need to pull back the initial 6rine 2medic 2bats pretty fast when he's doing 2hatch muta, but still move out abit to force him into making 1-2 sunkens.
So what if he does 2hatch lurker?
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Move out with the initial force and camp outside his natural. Make 2 factories instead of 1 and from there tech towards vessel on 3 raxes. You can also add a second refinary abit faster and research armor instead of attack in ebay.
If needed, make a bunker at your natural. As soon as factory is finnished, get a tank and research mode asap.
Look out for any drop in your main and natural at the same time. You could make a bunker in your main and keep the units in your natural to be safe.
From here just keep producing tanks from the 2 factories, you will only need 1 vessel for the moment. Move out when you have about 8 tanks usually.
Your 14 cc will give you a great lead on his 2hatcheconomy so by the time you have 8 tanks he will get crushed.
And if he does the usual 3hatch muta?
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Then just follow the buildorder.
Adapt the same way you would with the 9min push.
Scan when your vessel is out, if no hive, wait for second vessel etc etc.
General Mech Tips
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Whats the most important thing to think about when meching?
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When meching, buildorder is everything. If you do a bio-build you can usually get back from a disadvantegous position through micro etc but with mech its all about timing and macro, except for vultureharass.
You need to execute the buildorder perfectly the first 5 minutes of the game or else you will fall behind.
If you lose a game, watch through the replay and figure out why you lost.
Was it because you didn't get enough drones in the earlygame with vultureharass?
Was it because your push was delayed, or that you didn't time upgrades good enough.
Was it because you had too few units on the timing of your push, but the timing being good?
Was it because he had units that you didn't know he had, for example he switched?
If you decide that it was because your push was too weak, even if it was on the right timing, it is usually because you did too little damage early on or that you took your natural too late.
Often, terran players will get their cc up too late when meching, even if the zerg is droning up.
Usually you can take the natural pretty fast. For example if he's doing hydralisks you could get cc when mines are half way done and cut 2-3 vultures to get it up fast.
If you decide that it was because your push was delayed, look to the buildorder, you probably did something wrong.
Push can get delayed because of different reasons. Either you have suplystop, so fixing that is obvious. Or its just that you couldnt afford making the factories in time, which usually means you took the expansion too slow.
Whats the most difficult thing with mech?
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In the early game, while harassing with vultures you must also keep producing scvs, macro units and use the scouting information you get from the vultures to decide what building to make next.
To do all this and still keep the money low is really hard, and its usually in the beginning the lategame decides.
When trying to decide what to do next its not usually hard, specially when watching the replay.
For example his spire is really fast and he kills you, should you have done armory faster? ebay? cut scv to make it fast?
Or if he runs you over with hydra, could you have made a bunker and some marines? Could you have had a tank/mode finnished?
Think about it for yourself for a while before asking, this is usually the best way to improve.
Ofcourse you also use the info you get from the vultureharass to place your cc at a timing that will give you as much eco as possible without losing the game.
TvP
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General
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General Tips
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Watch the VOD called TvP General tips, under "Extras".
Hotkeys?
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Early game:
CC 2
rax 4 and then 5 when factory is finished
factory 4
natural CC 3
later:
factories with machine shops 4 and 5
rest 6 7 8 (9)
scan 9 0
units 123 (late game flash build 1 vult 2 vult 3 tank 4 tank 5gol+vessel)
Macro tips?
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to macro units from factory practice 4t5t6789
4 tank
5 tank
6 click vulture with mouse 7 8 9 same
This will allow you to macro from all factories very fast while you are still with your screen in the attack.
This will also allow you to easily set new rally points for reinforcements while pushing or attacking. In early game when I produce I mostly use hotkeys to macro from all buildings.
2s3s produces scvs and then 4t5t6789 for units.
In the lategame I might have hotkeys for more than 3 groups of units and then I only use
f4 to go back to my macro mode area and macro manually.
What are the different pushes good for?
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When creating a timed push, terran means to damage the protoss before his economy has given him the chance to produce alot of units.
If terran fast expands, usually protoss will take 2 expansions to get ahead of the terran in economics. While the protoss is using most of his minerals to make nexuses and probes, he will be vulnurable to a timed push, just before he starts macroing units.
Terran have different kinds of pushes. Some are faster some are slower, and its important that you understand how they work.
A faster push will have less units than a slower push, but if the protoss have very few units it will still be strong enough.
Generally, the more greedy/economically the protoss plays in the start, the faster timingpush you should do.
The less greedy/economical and thus more early unitheavy protoss plays the slower should the timingpush be.
Two examples:
1. Protoss notice that you take a fast expansion, he then makes 2 more nexusess while he only has 1 gateway. Then he adds 2 more gateways but also a forge to prevent
vultureharass with cannons.Conclusion; protoss is playing greedy and he's adding cannons aswell which means he will have even less units in the beginning.
This means that he will not be prepared for an early timingpush.
In this situation, for example a 4factpush would be able to punnish him before he has
enough units.
2. Protoss takes only his natural, adds many gateways and starts macroing from 2 bases.
Protoss is not playing greedy, he's investing most of his minerals into units early on.
This will mean that he is not vulnurable to any sort of early timingpush.
Thus its better to rely on a later attack. In this case, macro up to 170 from 6factories, 2bases and then move out to attack him.
Where should I push, and how?
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Where you push can differ greatly.
Lets talk alittle bit about the most common push.
A push on a protoss that is on 3 bases when terran is on 2 bases will go towards the location that is closest to you and where you can hurt his economy. You don't want to push through open areas if it can be avoided. Try using the maps to your advantage. Push in a way that protoss units cannot surround you and usually the more objects that are in the way the better it is for terran.
You want to lay mines in front of your tanks, far enough so that they cannot easily get
draggen into your tanks by zealots, but also close enough that tanks can fire on goons
that fire on the mines.Keep you tanks somewhat spread out, so that splash damage from mines and siegesplash wont hurt you so much, and keep the vultures in between and behind your tanks to autoattack on the zealots while you select some of your tanks and spam shiftattack on his goons so siegesplash wont hit you so much.
If he has goons only you want to keep your vultures in front of your tanks, laying aditional mines during the attack to keep dragoons away from the tanks and force him to retreat or suffer a violent death to mines and siegefire.
When you are close to his nexus or probes, make sure that atleast one of a few tanks are infact fireing at him to force him to attack you, otherwise he can keep macroing and any delays are in favour for the protoss.
Lets talk alittle bit about lategame pushes or attacks in general.
When doing a timed 2-1 push in the lategame you want to keep scanning around the map to find out his armylocation. Move out as fast as possible and hit siegemode directly when he decides to attack. Mines should not be placed during the heat of battle, but rather before he actually decides to move in.
Keep the vultures on hold position close to your tanks during the attack and select goons and vessel to fire on his shuttle/arbiter and casting EMP on his arbiters as fast as
possible.
The attack should usually go for his main base and natural area. You want to beat his
army and use the remaining units plus reinforcements to get to his macroarea and cut of
his unitproduction or to establish a defensive position outside in a location to cut off his reinforcements while you take a few units to kill his expansions.If you're very successful in your big push split up some units and siege up ouside multiple expansions to damage his economy and use the main force to keep moving towards his macroarea.
When doing a later push, for example 3-2 timingpush you should rather aim for his
biggest expansionarea, any area where he has 2 or more expansions still mining. His
minerals will most likely be outmined in his main and he will most likely have gateways
up in his expansions aswell.
Be sure to place mines in your base before you move out this late to stop any attempted
recalls. Micro your units the same way as with the 2-1 push.
What should I scout for with my initial SCV?
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Try to find out his pyloncount, if he researches range in his cybernetics core, if he makes an early zealot and if he keeps producing probes.
His pylon count should be close to your own suplycount. Specially if you're doing any
kind of FD or strong FD opening. If he has less pylons than you have suplies in this case
he might be proxying something and you should use your initial marines to scout around
abit outside your main and in various proxylocations.
If he's not researching his goonrange slightly before his first goon pops out or before
his second goon is out he is usually trying to tech up fast towards reavers or dark templars. When the SCV dies, keep looking at his core as long as you have vision to find out if he cancels range or not.
If your scv is killed quite early and you notice that he's low on pylons or that he hasn't researched range yet, send another scv by clicking on a mineralpatch in his main to get more information as soon as posible.
If he's making an early zealot try to prepare for that by pulling scvs in time if you have to to block your ramp.
If he's not making probes constantly he will most likely try some sort of early preassure.
Also ofcourse look out for any kind of early expansion.
How do I harass with vultures/drops?
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If he has early cannons, you should not attempt to harass with your initial vultures but
rather keep them at full health for your push.
When attacking probes with a group of vultures, lets say 8 vultures, spam shiftattack on
different probes. If you can, split up the vultures to two groups and spam shiftattack with each group on different probes. This way you can go home and macro or whatever while
the vultures keep killing his probes.
Try to lay mines in a location you think his reinforcements will pass through to save his
expansion before you move in to target the probes. Also place a few mines in his
mineralline for any possible mineexplosion to his probes.
You can use your vultures to draw his attention and at the same time move out tanks to
make a push while his units are busy elsewhere. This way you can start the actual push at a closer distance.
In lategame its good to lay mines all over the map to get mapcontrol and force him to
kill those mines. This way you will always know where his units are. You are also forcing
him to focus on other things than macro.
When dropping a protoss that has no cannons its usually better to use 4 vultures in a
dropship. Lay some mines first and then start attacking his probes.
If he has cannons, usually have atleast 1 tank in your drop aswell as vultures. Lay mines
to protect the tanks and siege up in range of his probes.
When doing a drop its good to use vultures to harass elsewhere at the same time to
draw his attention. This way his reactiontime might be slower and you get a more effective drop.
If you're able to drop in an area where it will take him alot of time to bring units to, you can also use 2 tanks in each drop and targetfire his nexus and hopefully be able to kill it before his units arrives.
The purpose of harassing with vultures and drops is to make him multitask and lose economy so he cannot focus 100% on macro while you work on your tankcount for your push. Usually if he knows you are harassing him his units won't be in position to break your push when you move out, but rather be spread out to defend different locations from
harass.
What builds shall I use on what maps?
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On most maps without a ramp, a strong FD opening or 2fact builds are good choices.
On most maps with a ramp or a wallable choke, siege expand or a normal FD opening into for example 5factpush, or a dropship opening are good choices.
Medusa: Strong FD, dropshipstrat, 2fact.
Destination: Strong FD, dropshipstrat, Flash strat but with abit later expansion and earlier 3rd and 4th factory, 3fact FE.
Python: Strong FD, normal FD, Siege expand, FD expand, dropshipstrat, 3fact FE.
Longinus: Strong FD, siege expand (wall outside natural).
Othello: Siege expand, Flashstrat, FD expand, 3fact FE.
Colosseum: Flashstrat, 2fact (because most protoss are greedy on this map).
Tau Cross: Strong FD, 2fact, 3fact FE.
These are just some examples.
What do I scan for?
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With your first two scans, you should scan for his third expansion and his gateway count.
Later in the game you should scan for his tech, usually in his main, if he's donig arbiters or carriers. Also scan around the map to find out his armycomposition and location.
Early on if you know that he has not taken a third and you scan that he's low on gateways, scan a second time in his main to find out any early tech such as DTs, revavers, arbiters or carriers.
Where and when should I take my third expansion?
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If you're doing any sort of flashbuild you already know when to take it if you watch the
VODs.
If your doing any sort of timing push you should take the expansion while doing the push
as soon as you have 400 extra minerals while still keep macroing from all your factories.
Place it in a location in the path of your push, if this isn't possible, take the closest
expansion and at the same time as far away as possible from the protoss.
Where do I place my turrets?
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You can place them in two different ways.
Either you place one turret at you natura, one close to your main cc and one close to
your factories while floating Ebay over one of the turrets and keep 1-2 tanks and some
marines in your main to be able to support the turret if needed, but keep them close enough to the natural that you'll be able to quickly defend vs any breakattempt.
Or you can place 4-5 turrets on specific locations around you base so they cover your
whole base and wont let any observer or shuttle in.
The first way is optimal for dtdrops and will give you greater economy.
The second way is optimal for reavers and keeping protoss in the dark.
Be sure to place your first turret in your natural, this is the place his dts can arrive at very fast and it should be up first.
How do I react vs fast nexusbuilds?
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It depends on what strategy you started out doing and when you're able to scout his fast nexus.
If you opened up with the Strong FD build, just keep doing the build and the initial attack will hurt him alot.
If you opened dropshipstrat, you can just continue with the buildorder. Its good vs 14nexus and his observers will be very late so he'll be playing blindly.
If you opened 5factpush, either keep producing marines fromt he rax and do a normal FD push with 6-7rines 1tank and 2rallied vultures and do some damage, or if you scout him fast enough, skip machineshop and rally vultures directly towards his main. Rally marines and pull 10-12 scvs and do an all-in at his front.
If you wonder how to do this, watch Skyhigh vs Young on colosseum @ winnersleague finals.
If you scout him too late to be agressive, just cut back on safety. Make a second factory before ebay and delay siegemode and stuff like that to try to catch up.
Sometimes 14nexus will be an advantage for him whatever you do basically if you opened a bad strat vs 14nexus and scout him too late.
On maps such as andromeda and medusa where you have an easily accessable mineral only, you could take a doubleexpansion and power up from there to catch up.
Usually if I do this i will get 8-9 factories and 2 armories and time an attack when you have 1-1 units.
How do vs fast dt and arbiters?
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Fast arbiters is a good build and you can watch oysteins vods to know an appropriate dtdrop timing and learn from that.
The thing is to place your turrets at locations that covers the important stuff and be ready for a drop.
If you succeed in killing or defending from the dts you can either get scans and get a fast third to go lategame or you can use vultures with mines/speed faster than usual to move out and lay mines because he will most likely lack observers if he's going a 2base arbiterbuild.
Lay some minefields and try to harass him with the vultures and at the same time move your tanks and scvs to the push area while you distract him with the vultures.
If you get up a contain with mines tanks and a turret or two he will be in big trouble.
Best thing is doing this with 4 factories i believe, because its faster and the contain needs to be up before the first arbiter pops.
From there push slow and careful until you reach the nexus and take it out.
How do I defend my expansions vs protoss?
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Terran cannot defend expansions vs protoss in general, thats why the matchup is played the way it is.
You need to have your expansions clutched together as close as possible while it is the protoss job to expand over the map.
Terran should not split up his units in the early midgame and still be able to defend all bases, which are usually 2 3 or 4 on some maps.
The best way to not let protoss attack vulnerable positions that are not covered by your units with a reaver or such is to use turrets and mines properly.
Protoss units are more mobile than terran units with the exeption of vultures, therefor laying minefields is the only way to slow down a protoss attack until you can get there to defend with more units.
So to answer the question.
In early game, use turrets and mines to protect areas that you cannot get to fast enough with your units that should be kind of clutched together at a strategic location to cover big attacks on your bases.
In lategame, when having to take expansions further away from your main base, use minefields to cover the area that protoss units have to run past to get to your expansion. This will give you time to defend it. Also use turrets to defend vs drops and you can place a few tanks and vults but not that many to defend vs stray zealots or whatever that would sneak through.
Also try to take expansions that are in a location that might be covered by your push.
If you're making a push, your macro and minefields is what will help you defend possible counters. If you keep your macro up there is a big chance that tanks+mines will be able to defend a possible counter, and if the counter is too big this will still give you time to reinforce with units from the push.
How many factories can and should I have in general?
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This depends on what kind of strategy your doing ofcourse, because if your opening with a 4factpush you will not be able to support 6 factories at the time obviously.
The best generalization I can give is:
Protoss generally needs 1 more base than terran.
This will give him the oppertunity to have more macrobuildings since he has more economy.
X-base terran vs X+1-base toss is playable from both sides, with slight advantage for the toss when X is low. Therefor its also ok to have enough factories that X bases can suply vs the gateways X+1 bases can supply for the protoss.
1 base terran can suply 2 factories with machineshops or 3 factories with vultures.
2 base terran can support 6 factories max.
3 base terran can support about 9-10 factories depending on how fast you take it.
4 base terran can generally not support more than 10 factories because one base should be mined out, but if you have 4 bases running i think you can have something like 15++ factories.
Strong FD
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When and why is this opening good?
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Its good on most maps without ramps, but also many maps with ramps.
Its good vs early preassure and vs 14nexus but also vs 1gate expand.
The ammount of units protoss need to stop your Strong FD attack will cost him more minerals than it will cost you. This way you will probably get your expansion up earlier
than him and also be able to scout what he's doing and sometimes even win from the first attack.
Its a great build.
Can I preassure him even if he's going 2gate?
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Yes you can, you will be able to put preassure on him whatever he does, however if he does a really goonheavy preassurebuild you need to be more carefull and not proceed to
walk all the way to his base. Rather move out and kill any goons that you can find and
return again once your marines are getting killed and go back to your freshly placed
expansion.
Lay mines behind your tanks and marines when you move out vs alot of goons. This way you can retreat safely even if he's able to outmicro you and snipe alot of units.
After you've laid mines with your first vulture, use it as a scout to find out if he's expanding or teching.
How do I follow up?
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It depends on the damage and the information you're able to get while doing the intial attack.
If you're able to kill alot of his units, usually you're also able to get a glimps of what he's doing with your marines and tanks. Place mines offensively if he's low on units and try to save 1 mine for placing on his natural expansion so he cannot take it.
Then use the vulture or vultures to find out as much as you can of his tech.
If you see no tech and know that he will try to expand, or if you see the expansion with
your mines or whatever you don't need to play safe.Get refinary early on in your natural
and get another 4 factories up asap. From here do a second attack and research minespeed, you dont usually need siegemode for this attack. Watch the Strong FD VOD and you'll know what I mean.
If you're not able to do enough damage, or not able to get enough information you should
follow up with a later gas in your natural and an earlier Ebay / Siegemode.
From here you can transition into another build such as the 5fact push or add an early
armory, take a fast third and go for some sort of flashbuild.
5Fact push
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When and why is this build good?
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This build is great when the protoss is taking a fast third to stay ahead of you economically. Hopefully, with proper micro and macro you'll be able to attack him at a
timing where he's still waiting for his macro to have produced enough units to kill your
push.
Its good on most maps with ramps and even better if the starting locations are close.
Why use a defensive FD opening instead of a siegeexpand opening?
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When opening with an FD build you will have the possibility to be agressive once you've scouted what hes doing, in this case you can produce more than 4 marines.
You can also use the first vulture, once it's laid its mines for scouting and find out
when he's taking a third to make the proper reaction.
Its good to have those early 4 marines in the case he's trying to reaver or dtdrop you.
Keep 2 tanks and 4 marines in your main to be able to backup the turrets fast and protect vs dts or reavers, but keep them close enough to the ramp that you can siege up and defend if protoss decides to break your entrance.
Siege Expand will give you greater economy, but its more risky in my oppinion. And you're kept more in the dark and will be less mobile than with the defensive FD opening.
However its still good on many maps and for many types of builds. For example on
colosseum.
When should I take my third and how do I transition into lategame?
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Take your third when you have 400 overminerals while doing the push and are still macroing from all your factories. If the push isn't successfull you need to lay mines and
take a defensive position, also place turrets specially if its in a location on the path of your initial push.
When the third is going up you can add aprox 3 more factories, another armory and start
making a starport.
From here, keep harassing him with vultures while you macro up and push out again if you get an opportunity or wait for upgrades to kick in and move out when you're almost maxed.
How do I react vs reaveropening?
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Once you've successfully defended the first reaver with turrets marines and tanks you
continue with the normal build. Get 3 goliaths with your push and make sure to upgrade
goliath range and target the shuttle as soon as you see it while pushing out.
How do I react vs 2base protoss?
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Add a 6th factory and keep macroing and scan/scout for his third expansion. If he doesn't take a third he's going to have alot of units, just stay in your base macroing from 6 factories and upgrading from 1 armory an d move out when you have about 170 suply.
What If he's opening DT?
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Add a second vulture after the first one and lay mines in two straight lines outside your
natural. Get the Ebay before siegemode as usual, but not before the CC. Also be sure to
float the Ebay over the turret in your natural to prevent any kind of turretsniping dragoons to clear way for the dts.
What if he's going fast carriers?
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Push out at the same timing, but reinforce with alot of goliaths. If his carriers are from 3 bases and thus pretty slow, keep making some round of vultures before switching to
goliaths to be able to punnish his economy before he gets enough carriers.
Remember that once he has 2 carriers he will need time to get interceptors and even then he wont be able to kill vultures that fast and you dont need to rush to goliaths if you're going to be agressive.
From here just continue with the normal build.
TvP FlashStrat
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When I Siege expand. Is it always safe to float the CC directly?
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- Scenario 1
- Protoss 1gate range.
This preassure will not be enough to hold you back from floating the CC down directly upon its finnish. 1tank on cliff and one unsieged tank below to push him away from your expansion. Micro the tank below back and forth and he won't dare to snipe it because the tank on cliff will fire at him.
If you're in a position where the tank on the cliff wont protect the tank on the ground, siege up the second tank on the ramp or just below and protect with SCVs if you have to.
If you don't know what his tech is after this you must place turrets immediately when you land your CC. Place one on the cliff and one on the ground.
Reason:
1gate will not support enough goons to break you and with 1gate he can either tech fast to DT/Reaver or he can take double expansion very fast and you cannot afford to delay economy.
Scenario 2 - Protoss 2Gate range.
This will force you to make a bunch of SCVs from your CC before you can lift it. Stay behind the wallin with sieged tanks to defend his preassure and wait for 3-4 tanks before you float the CC down. Place turrets when you move down if you don't know his tech and place a turret on the cliff before that, close to the cliff so it will cover some area below aswell.
Reason:
2Gate goon will set the protoss back economically. He will be able to preassure you in the beginning but your eco will still be ahead because you have 2 CCs pumping SCVs and when you float down, the only way he can catch up economically is to take double expansions.
Either he does that or he will try to bulldog you or tech to something fast on 2 bases.
Always remember to float both rax and ebay down to make a semiwall at your expansion a few seconds before you move down. This will make it harder for him to break you. Also remember that SCVs are very stron protectors in the beginning vs goons.
Last Update 04-27-09
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New questions added in TvZ general and TvP general
This is a complimentary thread to my original terranguide thread called Stylish's FPVods.
The FAQ consists of questions asked in that thread but also many other questions.
The reason I made a new thread for this is because my other thread was getting too big and it was really hard updating things for me.
Feel free to discuss questions here and add questions/answers if you feel the need and I will try to update them if I think they are valid.
I've tried my best to answer the questions as good as I can and if you think I'm wrong at some point, please let me know and explain why. And maybe I will change it.
It is not completed yet, I will keep this thread updated on a regular basis, adding questions that appear in my other thread and here.
Most information are based on my VOD thread, thus when I'm recommending a strategy, I will chose from one in my other thread.
Enjoy!