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! [G] [PvZ] 4 Gate 2 Archon

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-21 22:11:13
December 23 2008 03:43 GMT
#1
For Aiur!

The 4 gate 2 archon build is also commonly referred to as the +1 spd zealot archon build, but that's lame and very vague. This is not the Bisu build. This is not some nonsense theory-crafted build. It is the new foundation and manual for PvZ ever since the coming of the revolution.

It is the Holy Bible of PvZ!

Build is described in parts 1 2 and 3
Late game management tips and transitions in case the zerg didn't die yet in part 4.
Part 5 is simply a variation to consider.

The New Foundation of PvZ

[PvZ] - 4 Gate 2 Archon - AKA The Protoss vs Zerg Bible.

From http://pgr21.com/zboard4/zboard.php?id=daku&no=1668

The Build - The Bible

* Simply, after double Nex, Get an archive and 4 gates. After 2 archons - produce speed+1 zealots and pressure/attack the zerg.
* 7.5 Pylon, 11 Forge, 13 Cannon (x2), 15 pylon. 18 Nexus+Gate => Main Gas, Core, front gas, Stargate, Citadel, Templar+3 gate. +1, 4 HT, Speed up, Make speed zealots... at around 8:30, attack.
* The 4 gate 2 archon build is used to fight Zerg Neo-Sauron builds.
(9 pool, 6 ling, front hatch, 3rd base hatch, gas, lair, lingspeed, spire/scourge, +2 hatch - Den+Chamber. )
- Once again, I re-iterate, this build is to fight Neo-Sauron Zergs.
- If the zerg shows switch up, there must be adjustments made, and the following will be an explanation on how to do so.

1 - The Double Nexus -

*The Build Order - 7.5 Pylon, 11 Forge, 13 Cannon (x2), 15 pylon. 18 Nexus + Gate
*Key Points
- When pool is half done, the forge must be coming up.
- Even if the forge and pool finish at the same time, ling make+travel time = finished cannons.
- Minor variations dependant on map.
- If you are given a little freedom due to the pool being late, you can build a nexus and if still given further freedom by opposition, build a gate!
- If the zerg aggresively 3 hatch 0 pools, do a Nexus -no forge 2 gate. While harassing with zealots, producing probes and teching are both possible. However, the zerg, due to making zerglings+sunkens will not be able to do anything else.
- It is because of this 9 pool is the standard. To stop the 9 pool, the basic double nex build is as described above and admittedly slower.

* The Defence -
- 2-4 zerglings = 1 photon. More lings - 2 photon. If speed up or around 12 lings, 3 photon.
- In most ling heavy scenarios, 3 is plenty.
- More importantly is the sim city + Probe/Zealot path blocking to not even let the lings onto the cannons in the first place.
- Specifically, Gate on top, Forge on bottom = No ling run by. This is an important feature a toss should utilize. ( http://www.pgr21.com/zboard4/zboard.php?id=daku&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=1649
The bottom picture is possible protoss walls )
- If the zerg does speed up or 8+ lings, block/narrow the entrance with probes.
- Trying to conserve 2-4 more probes will end the game. The zerg is obviously poor so there is no need to feel like you must have 2-4 extra probes working for your econ.
- As money allows, replace the probes with 1-2 zealots from the gates.

*The Scouting -
- Is it 12 hatch or 9 pool, pool timing is the most important thing here.
- then, are lings making or drones? Then 'What is the hatch count and gas timing.
- Most zergs put up the hatches they want (3/4) before they make the gas.
- By this assumption, we can usually get a feel for if the zerg has taken his 2nd natural or not.
- Depending on gas timing, Hydra, Muta, Lurker can be guessed.
- If you were breached by the all in, watch the replay with an emphasis on the zergs gas timing/usage.
- Checking for Chogoling speed up is obv important.
- If the gas has been up for awhile but there is no lair in sight, high probability of a chogoling break.
- If the scouting probe is caught and the zerg is containing outside movement from the toss's nat and even if scouting seems hard, you can't be still.
- It is good to fake probe movements in and out of the base to check for chogospeed.
- If no speed up, fake probe movement (Usually towards their choke ol) and then FAKE JUKE TIKI BARBER that shit to the other side.
- After the zergs natural expo, if the 3rd hatch is towards the main, be very cautious.

2 - The Core Timing -

* Build order - (After Gate) - Gas, Core, Nat Gas, Stargate, Citadel.
- Before the core is complete, the nat gas must be put up to prevent gas shortage.
- A goon is always a nice choice to prevent more ol scouting.
- Because the timing between citadel and robo branches are so similar, it is often a good idea to construct them around the nat by habit. Also, robos are better constructed there anyways in case of defence.
- If the Zerg's tech is late (4 Hatch Gas), corsairs are not even needed. [No Stargate at all]

* The Defence -
- If unsure of the zergs exact intentions, another photon up front for 3 isn't a bad choice.
- Pure Hydra Break - Cancel all probes and cannon like no tomorrow. Magu Magu Photon Photon.
- If hydras are trying to fast break the gate, bring a probe up to the gate and getting ready to re-construct the gate to buy extra time is a good option.
- If the Zorg went fast 2 hatch gas and the tech is SUPA FAST~ at about SG completion time, put 1-2 photon at the main.

* The Scouting -
- The Sair is better off looking at zerg intentions rather than overlord hunting.
- Just because scourge are out, don't keep the sair in your main. Avoid the scourges and looking at the zerg is very beneficial
- Post 3-hatch, if the 4 and 5 hatchery do not pop up, mutalisks all-in are much more likely.
- If hatcheries 4 and 5 are up, the zerg has less than 200 minerals. He can't make mutas!
- It is important to discover the natural gas status also. If the gas is already up, a gas heavy muta or lurker attack will be coming.

*OMG! It's not a spire!
- If it's not spire, it's ling hydra lurker.
- Since the sair neutralizing scourges are not there, Sair-reaver is a good choice. If the Citadel is already up, Sair-DT is a good choice.
- It is still possible to ignore it all and go 4gate 2 archon.

3 -Two Archons and +1 Spd Zealots -

*Build Order - (After Citadel) - +1 attack, Templar Archives, 3 gateways, 2 archons, Speed up, 4 gateway zealot pump.
- The above build is the standard but depending on the zorgs status, what comes first does differ.
- Afterwards, produce sufficient zeal/chon from gates and put down a pylong at the 2nd natural to PREPAREeeee FORrrrrrr EXPANSION~~~.

*Fast Mutal Defence.
- Even if you scout that it's not muta, 2 cannons in your main is standard. (It is encouraged that you have a bountiful and abundant 3 flower harvest)
- As aforementioned, if the nat gas is made but the 4/5th hatcheries are missing, it is wise to assume mutalisks.
- Even with an archon, without cannons/sair fast power mutals will shake you up. 3-4 Cannons at main, 2-3 sairs plz. Plz plz.
- Most Zorgs that go mutal defend with many sunkenlisks. If the sunken count looks low, poking him with your 2 archon superlot and sairs is recommended. (While expanding).
- If this isn't the case, prepare your 2nd expo! The mutals will aggravatingly rape your macro polo probe, and this is another reason many sairs are needed. Also, if you feel your probe micro sux and the mutas will rape it, going ahead and setting a probe there before hand to preserve your original intended expo timing isn't bad.

* Fast Lurkers
- Similar to mutals, if the nat gas is fast and the hydra den is fast, faster lurkers will be looking to contain you.
- Instead of Archons or Speed Up, adding only 2-3 gates + robotics + Goon range + Templar&Obs is recommended.
- Make 1-2 DTs and hide them somewhere. Later, when he is harassing your expos, your harass him back ninja style.
- When breaking the lurker contain, take a shuttle full of 4 zealots and harass the back and then attempting to break the lurker is much easier street.
- If your 1-2 DT's made it out, harass with these dt's now.
- When breaking the contain, having 1 archon is really nice. It serves as a good lead. Because the hydras and lings come towards the archon, the rear templars can get easy storms.

* Scourge, Hydra, Then Lurker/Neo-Sauron Zerg
- Making scourges to pressure the corsair while making hydras, then follwing up with lurkers is the standard.
- Until the Zealots and Archons are destroyed, the Protoss will have the center.
- At this moment, you have to make your 2nd natural, but speed up ling movement to halt this will be seen.
- In this case, instead of moving all your zealots out, send a few to confront the zerglings and to hold the territory.
- Keep pumping zealots while reseraching Storm. Prepare HT while raising a robo and get observers.
- As you pump templar, your gas will deplete and minerals will be left over. This is when you increase gateways.

4. - The Second Half Charge -

* Overcoming The Lair Timing
- Massing Dragoons and Templar while destroying the zerg's lair units and pushing the nat is the ultimate goal of this strat.
- It is recommended to be on a wider and more open map where dragoons can fight to their full potential, like Tau Cross.
- If the zerg survives and gets to hive, adrenal+swarm makes goons useless and the game will become increasingly difficult

*Split Map Fights ("Macro Wars")
- The main way to win late game ( +Hive) is to follow the zerg step in step for expo's while constructing a hanbang.
- Zealots - Archons - Templar will be the base units and later the reaver must be incorporated.
- Putting a robo (or two) at your expos will help fight defiler and zergling terrorism!!!!
- If you control the center and carelessly expand, cracklings will shake you up and ruin your pretty Nexus in an instant.
- In preparation for doom drops on the main, many photons (You will have money left, 5, 7, 10, flower fields!) are recommended. While Dark Swarm nullifies these, they buy precious time. And you must quickly defend with speed up shuttle/reavers.
- Be careful and please take good care of your corsairs. If you can gather it up, mass corsairs is very powerful, but because of the high gas cost, your army can become lacking.
- Until you are sure of victory, do not go into a zerg's defensive line. Especially don't smash into a sunken line. Concentrate on gathering an archon and reaver count, stop or slow down zerg expo attempts, and be sure to keep your econ safe of any threats.
- Got money left over? Photon Photon Photon Gate Gate Gate.

5 - Variations -

The Hungry Build

Hungry Build - 7.5 Pylon, 10 forge, 13 Photonx2 - 15 Nexus+Gate, 16 Pylon, 17 Gas - Core.
Regular Build -7.5 Pylon, 10 forge, 13 Photonx2 - 15 Pylon - 18 Nexus/Gate - 19 Gas - Core.

Corsair Timing -
Hungry 4:20
Regular 4:55

Minerals mined by 5 minutes

Hungry - 1862 (31 Probes+312)
Regular - 2118 (32 Probes+518)

- Tech is 35 seconds faster, but about 250 minerals poorer.
- Due to the faster Nexus, there is not a big difference in probe count.
So really, it comes down to - Do you want to add more gateways or have a faster sair.
- So if the Zerg goes 9 pool speed up, a faster tech hungry build seems beneficial.

2nd Nat Pointers

- To preserve expansion timing, it is key to not lose the first force doing no damage to the zerg.
- That is also known as suicide.
- If the 2nd nat is tricky to grab, like Destination, it is advised to add two more gates for 6 total before expanding.
- If the 2nd nat is close, like Coloseum, follow the guide.

Nexus 2-Gate vs 3-Hatch 0-Pool

- Ahh, so.. the no forge 2 gate expo... ~_~
- On a 4 player map, as the probe builds the forge, send him out to scout also.
- If the Zerg has 12 hatched, there will be time to cancel the forge and Nexus.
- If the Zerg went 3 hatch no-pool from here, it is easy to raise the 2nd gate.
- Like before, the forge has to go up when pool is half done.
- Pressure and tech. While your econ is superior and you can do this, zerg's larva cap prevents such growth.

And... I think that's it.
I hope you guys show the true meaning of 1a2a3a to those pesky whiny zergs.

PWAHAHAHHAAH FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE!!!
No Zergs are gonna learn to wall against me and not have repercussions!
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
EsX_Raptor
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2801 Posts
December 23 2008 03:49 GMT
#2
please do this for the TvZ ones please!!
Yaqoob
Profile Blog Joined March 2005
Canada3321 Posts
December 23 2008 03:51 GMT
#3
I have been waiting for this so long. When I get home I am going to read this and practice this build a couple of times to get the timings down. I've been just doing random things and not really knowing when to add gates or anything.
김택용 Fighting!
Dr.Dragoon
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1241 Posts
December 23 2008 03:59 GMT
#4
I read this in the other thread and well..it made me want to switch to PvZ. Amazing work, thanks SuperJongMan.
~o~ I have returned
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
December 23 2008 04:00 GMT
#5
Thank you so much for this post! I was discussing this build with some guys earlier tonight, and honestly, have yet to fully grasp it.

All my PvZs have wound up being +1 speed zeals, and they just haven't been working that well. I can't wait to use this.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
December 23 2008 04:07 GMT
#6
This is the bane of my existence.
onihunter
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States515 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-23 04:18:32
December 23 2008 04:09 GMT
#7
Wow, that forum looks likes it's full of informative guides...would be awesome if someone translated the good ones when there's free time. This may sound greedy, but I think everyone would benefit from reading these Korean guides.

Edit: Sigh, now I'll get owned harder on iccup :/
jaedong forever~
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
December 23 2008 04:11 GMT
#8
This guide makes me a sad zerg
Force staff is the best item in the game.
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
December 23 2008 04:15 GMT
#9
Good! Your race whines too much!
There are some comments in the discussion I'll add on later.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
ramen247
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1256 Posts
December 23 2008 04:15 GMT
#10
On December 23 2008 13:11 CDRdude wrote:
This guide makes me a sad zerg


LOL. plz may more volunteers do something like this for every matchup besides mirros if you are too busy?

zvp
zvt
tvp
tvz
pvt
pvz
i hate this ugly firebat. i want a marine.
Kula
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States140 Posts
December 23 2008 04:20 GMT
#11
Thanks for the guide.
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-23 04:25:20
December 23 2008 04:22 GMT
#12
The style and format are very effective. Nice job.

Probably one of the most interesting discussion points would be: what's the zerg response that allows them to come out ahead or even even against this build?
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
Dr.Dragoon
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1241 Posts
December 23 2008 04:26 GMT
#13
On December 23 2008 13:15 ramen247 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2008 13:11 CDRdude wrote:
This guide makes me a sad zerg


LOL. plz may more volunteers do something like this for every matchup besides mirros if you are too busy?

zvp
zvt
tvp
tvz
pvt
pvz

We shouldn't ask them for too much!
~o~ I have returned
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
December 23 2008 04:31 GMT
#14
this build kicks ass against the popular fast spire->scourage + drones -> hydra build. thanks though sjm. (maybe you can beat my zerg now lololol!!)
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
December 23 2008 04:32 GMT
#15
Awesome. iccup will be hell for a while now. T_T.
Hello
Sanity.
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States704 Posts
December 23 2008 04:46 GMT
#16
great guide.
ramen247
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1256 Posts
December 23 2008 04:51 GMT
#17
On December 23 2008 13:26 Dr.Dragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2008 13:15 ramen247 wrote:
On December 23 2008 13:11 CDRdude wrote:
This guide makes me a sad zerg


LOL. plz may more volunteers do something like this for every matchup besides mirros if you are too busy?

zvp
zvt
tvp
tvz
pvt
pvz

We shouldn't ask them for too much!



ahahahahaha!!!!

true that.
i hate this ugly firebat. i want a marine.
Icarus
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States105 Posts
December 23 2008 05:29 GMT
#18
Hahaha SJM you just placed fear in all the Zergs here :p Good thing I"m a Protoss Thanks for the great guide!

And I do agree that the name "+1 speedlot rush" is a little vague. Plus, 4 gate archon sounds way better :D Again, thanks for the great guide!
Chameleon
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States604 Posts
December 23 2008 05:39 GMT
#19
great guide, I've been hoping one for this build would show up, thank you!
TL's #1 Horang2 fan
Little-Chimp
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada948 Posts
December 23 2008 05:42 GMT
#20
Damn I was hoping this guide would never come. I'm gonna get owned by toss even more now.
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