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On June 13 2008 21:58 raga4ka wrote:
Overpool speed seems the safest and will always force the protoss to make cannons at natural before nexus on most maps
Well that's only partially true. When the rushing distance is normal canons can be built at the same moment when zerglings pop out to finish in time. If the rushing distance is too short - like 12/3 on LT - protoss will simply cut economy once to build the canons a little bit quicker after the nexus. It won't hurt him so much but it will hurt you a lot because you'll have a lot less larvaes in the early game. Especially when the rushing distance is short zerg is in big danger against all kinds of pushes so it often backfires to sacrifice larvaes in the early game.
If you want to force canons before nexus you must play 9 pool instead. This is the main reason why many zerg users still prefer the 12 hatch build.
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This is absolutely awesome. I'm a D player and will be bookmarking this, so hopefully now I can make it to D+ or even C- ^_^ Thanks a lot!
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On June 11 2008 10:19 useLess wrote:
Im Protoss and I find this thread HIGHLY offensive
edit: also, are you sure its 50% lair? i usually do 75% lair and my den finishes at the same time.
its like 50-60% lair and itll pop around the same time, 75 is too late.
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Well SuperiorWolf, your not that good of a player, so obviously I didn't read this. I think it would make me dumber about PvZ, but nice work. I'm sure a lot of D players will like this. 
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Well, no matter what I'd have to say this guide was a success because it enticed Ahzz to finish his guide in a record 2 days (he'd been working on it for a year). Cheers!
I'm still going to update it just so people have a variety of guides to read from though  Thanks everyone, we are now in version 1.1 and OVER NINE THOUSAND WORRRRRRRRRRRDS!!!
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On June 13 2008 08:49 Pangolin wrote:Sort of a stupid question but in this picture: do you mean you should place your overlord in the same place as the overlord in the picture, or do you place it where the mouse pointer is clicking? BTW this is a great guide.
Where the mouse pointer is clicking obviously. Assuming it's python.
Overall very well written guide which pretty much sum up all you need to know about how to play zvp nowadays. At least on most macro maps.
Good job.
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Bwahahaha! There's more to the mystic protoss openings than you know! Time to get tricky...
P.S. huge props I fucking hate hydra breaks really. I'm horrible at timing xD gotta keep scouter probe alive more i guess ><
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On June 13 2008 21:58 raga4ka wrote:
Overpool speed seems the safest and will always force the protoss to make cannons at natural before nexus on most maps , your economy won't be hurt either if you followed it up with hat at natural .
It seems 1 base 2 gate counters 9 pool really well now. Good timing push with zealots will hit before sunkens are up and zerg will sac so much econ just to put up with it. 9 pool is weak in that regard, it needs some big window of no-pressure to recover from the economy loss, and anytime in that big window protoss can hit you and fuck you up.
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On June 14 2008 08:06 G5 wrote:Well SuperiorWolf, your not that good of a player, so obviously I didn't read this. I think it would make me dumber about PvZ, but nice work. I'm sure a lot of D players will like this.
You don't have to be a dick about it. The guide will help plenty of players. If you don't have any constructive criticism, you shouldn't post at all.
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On June 14 2008 14:43 Salv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2008 08:06 G5 wrote:Well SuperiorWolf, your not that good of a player, so obviously I didn't read this. I think it would make me dumber about PvZ, but nice work. I'm sure a lot of D players will like this. You don't have to be a dick about it. The guide will help plenty of players. If you don't have any constructive criticism, you shouldn't post at all.
thanks for adding great informative input to the thread. i will take after your example from now on.
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On June 15 2008 11:17 G5 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2008 14:43 Salv wrote:On June 14 2008 08:06 G5 wrote:Well SuperiorWolf, your not that good of a player, so obviously I didn't read this. I think it would make me dumber about PvZ, but nice work. I'm sure a lot of D players will like this. You don't have to be a dick about it. The guide will help plenty of players. If you don't have any constructive criticism, you shouldn't post at all. thanks for adding great informative input to the thread. i will take after your example from now on.
your a moron
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On June 15 2008 12:56 lejason wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2008 11:17 G5 wrote:On June 14 2008 14:43 Salv wrote:On June 14 2008 08:06 G5 wrote:Well SuperiorWolf, your not that good of a player, so obviously I didn't read this. I think it would make me dumber about PvZ, but nice work. I'm sure a lot of D players will like this. You don't have to be a dick about it. The guide will help plenty of players. If you don't have any constructive criticism, you shouldn't post at all. thanks for adding great informative input to the thread. i will take after your example from now on. your a moron
I agree, G5 you're fucking retarded.
I'm D+ and not D now thanks to this guide, and I'm sure to escalate further the more I practice what it says. The guide was very informative and helpful.
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Best ZvP guide so far. Bookmarked. Anticipating a ZvZ and a ZvT one from you.
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On June 15 2008 13:23 Akar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2008 12:56 lejason wrote:On June 15 2008 11:17 G5 wrote:On June 14 2008 14:43 Salv wrote:On June 14 2008 08:06 G5 wrote:Well SuperiorWolf, your not that good of a player, so obviously I didn't read this. I think it would make me dumber about PvZ, but nice work. I'm sure a lot of D players will like this. You don't have to be a dick about it. The guide will help plenty of players. If you don't have any constructive criticism, you shouldn't post at all. thanks for adding great informative input to the thread. i will take after your example from now on. your a moron I agree, G5 you're fucking retarded. I'm D+ and not D now thanks to this guide, and I'm sure to escalate further the more I practice what it says. The guide was very informative and helpful.
sofa king wee todd did?
Thank you kind sir, you sure helped me realize I was out of line. I appreciate your kind words and I will try to make myself a better person by your example and guidance.
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Sacarsm by its excellence. And young childs falling to the trap. How futile
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really nice guide
it helped me a lot to get more clarity on my very intuitive builds. And timings, there were a few that i didnt knew, lets see how this would affect my game.
i am a huge fan of nine pool against fast expa, just 6 to 8 speed lings, denny scout, go for any 3 hatch build that you want, 2 hatch muta after that is grat too, cause you realy denny scouting scourgin the first sair.
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Well, I finally read this guide. You don't go to the specifics on when to make drones which is perhaps the most important thing in zvp (actually, you have this problem too in 1v1's). One thing that determines if a player is good is if they can perfectly balance their drones and army. You didn't cover any of this.
You also kept kind of like talking and talking as if chit chatting instead of actually providing information on several builds, and for example the way you said you use hydras to counter archon/reaver is simply wrong. Especially because archon reaver never actually happens.
They always have some zealots, (dragoons,) high templars mixed to the crew and your hydras get creamed.
It's well written and it does provide good information on some of the openings, but you don't cover several important things that should be mentioned and a few things are wrong
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Nice, thanks! But dont emphasise on the size so much; it makes it look like you're adding words for lenght instead of information. So; the size is good to me, but don't yell NINE THOUSAND WORDS!
Aight
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AH! sorry for late reply, anyway this is fantastic! helped me improve on my ZvP's !
ZvZ would be thx =]
anyway, thanks alot for this awesome guide !
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Thanks for all the nice comments and Ahzz for the corrections, I will be sure to fix them (but you're completely right about the drone thing, I still have to improve that quite vastly myself).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7189/scscrnshot020208164850tcc9.png)
