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[Q] 1st supply placement - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
January 06 2008 05:24 GMT
#41
On January 06 2008 06:45 skyglow1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2008 18:35 naventus wrote:
I hate to ask for this, but could someone post the picture of the barracks with supply at that configuration? I've seen the old building placement thread, but there's no picture for this supply position.

I see a lot of T players not doing that anti zealot arrangement and just pulling SCVs instead to fight zeals. Why would you not do that arrangement in all cases (maybe they are just used to using SCVs?)?


Probably cause they don't know about it, it's too troublesome in their mind, or their confident in their marine + scv micro.

True not alot of people know about it
Only a few games i saw where pros do that one i remember is paranoid andriod wcg 2007 stork vs hwasin. Hwasin did it.

ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Tensai176
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Canada2061 Posts
January 07 2008 06:59 GMT
#42
Including all the points being said, its also convinient for getting the 9th depot with the 9th scv. If you do the split perfectly, you'd get 100 minerals as soon as the 9th scv comes out, i just saw FBH do this against Savior and as soon as it came out he built a supply depot, so the 11th scv wont hit a supply block.
We see things they'll never see
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
January 07 2008 07:13 GMT
#43
certainly not to forward the scv, specially at this position.
The order the scv is:
10@9@8@7
11@@@@@6
12@@@@@5
@1@2@3@4

By covering 2,3,4, if a scv is returning a cargo at 1, the scv would spawn at 5, and therefore much farther way from the minerals.

if the minerals were at the right side and the supply depot blocked 1-3, you might argue it has a bit of an advantage.

I dont think there is no particular reason. Maybe to position the barracks on the right side of the cc, adjacent to both cc and supply. marines can walk in between, but zealots cant.
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
skyglow1
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
New Zealand3962 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-07 22:39:56
January 07 2008 08:41 GMT
#44
On January 07 2008 16:13 Leath wrote:
certainly not to forward the scv, specially at this position.
The order the scv is:
10@9@8@7
11@@@@@6
12@@@@@5
@1@2@3@4

By covering 2,3,4, if a scv is returning a cargo at 1, the scv would spawn at 5, and therefore much farther way from the minerals.

if the minerals were at the right side and the supply depot blocked 1-3, you might argue it has a bit of an advantage.

I dont think there is no particular reason. Maybe to position the barracks on the right side of the cc, adjacent to both cc and supply. marines can walk in between, but zealots cant.


Wrong way around. A rax would need to be placed on the left side of the depot, not on the right [Edit]Woops it seems a CC placed in that position above the supply makes the rax-on-the-right setup actually work. Strange [/Edit]. A rax + CC combo in that position would work, but this would not involve the supply, so the placement of the supply cannot be for the reason of creating the special gap.

Not only that, the supply + CC gap does not allow a rine through.
ForAdun
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany986 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-07 09:10:49
January 07 2008 09:09 GMT
#45
Luckily I was able to play a game on ICCup against 2 off-gate zealot rush on Python. The following replay is not to prove that terran wins the game, actually I believe if protoss follows a good game plan after the rush he has about equal or even better chances. In that case he is slightly behind so he has to be tricky, like using DT's to save his off-gates from the first counter-attack. In my replay the protoss takes his 2nd expansion way too late so I won in the middle game, not because he rushed me. Keep that in mind.
You can still see the tiny advantage I've spoken about after the initial rush. My vulture control wasn't too strong (I lost 2 of them unneccessarily) but the advantage was still big enough to pressure him a bit.

PS: It wasn't the most dangerous 2 gate rush. Keep in mind that you'd probably lose the game if the rush is even stronger and your vulture control looks like mine in that replay. Work on your vulture control as hard as you can, zealot rush can be a bitch.

http://rapidshare.com/files/81908071/0366_ETBrooDT_undrelikP.rep.html

Lets send them cheesers back to wherever they belong to!
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
January 07 2008 10:59 GMT
#46
Lots of tosses on iccup and 99% of them cheese
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
foeffa
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Belgium2115 Posts
January 07 2008 14:13 GMT
#47
On January 06 2008 10:34 ForAdun wrote:
wall in


Tx, informative post. =)
觀過斯知仁矣.
skyglow1
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
New Zealand3962 Posts
January 07 2008 22:41 GMT
#48
On January 07 2008 23:13 foeffa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2008 10:34 ForAdun wrote:
wall in


Tx, informative post. =)


I'm guessing you misunderstood his post and thought that he was just saying to do a normal wall-in? Read again.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-08 10:24:51
January 08 2008 09:01 GMT
#49
On January 05 2008 08:39 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2008 08:27 skyglow1 wrote:
On January 05 2008 08:15 Chill wrote:
On January 05 2008 08:12 skyglow1 wrote:
I'm 90% sure it's so the scv can pop out closer to the minerals, which when coupled with manual control of your workers to the correct mineral patches, can speed up your build order by a few seconds (which can be critical).

If it was about SCV popping, it would be a matrix left.


Hmm you sure it wouldn't pop up on the right side of the supply if you put it 1 matrix to the left?



My understanding is that StarCraft has a point it wants to create a unit (I think it's typically bottom left but I could be wrong) and if that's blocked it rotates around counter-clockwise until there's an opening and places the unit there. I don't think there's a "buffer zone" where it checks if there is an opening closer to the clockwise side than counter-clockwise. So I don't think it's possible to force units to be created farther left unless you block off everything else.

This can be seen in UMS maps where Terran has no building time - the first SCV pops out bottom left, and then they continue around to the right. At no point does one suddenly come out at the left.

Of course I could be wrong, I'm not at home to test this out.

You just made me think of a good idea for SC2, If they made the building AI detect a building on its side and make a unit pop out opposite to it. This would help in positional imbalance when walling and whatnot.

Actually It would just be a lot easier if the Rally point AI was fixed so that the unit pops out on the closest side to the rally.

PS- I was trying to illustrate how this pylon placement on OG bloodbath helps the probes in their fucked up return route but noticed a glitch
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=64897

Anyways, This is what I was trying to show:

Pylon Fix:
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=174727

Gas Fix:
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=6635017
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=8864602
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=4439677

Alternate Pylon Fix (just discovered):
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=1969930

It seems that the angle of attack (aviation term lol) can effect how the worker decides to return. Some probes can be manually manipulated to the other open side of the crystal and will return and come back on that correct (faster) path. Others will not regardless of which side the mine from. So a building such as a pylon will permanently correct it.

Later on however, when the minerals are saturated it may or may not hinder mining due to wandering workers coming from all angles.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
il0seonpurpose
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5638 Posts
January 08 2008 20:51 GMT
#50
On January 05 2008 12:02 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
On luna at 12 they put it to the left of the cc to correct the mining path and on python 1.2 on 9 if you dont manually control your scv it goes all the way to the back like it got manner pyloned or something so a depot fixes that. And on some other maps like i guess zodiac has the same problem. Saw in the recent msl group games mind puts his depot to the bottom right of his cc at 11 o clock. I guess its the same as putting depots or a pool in the path of your gas so you can put 3 instead of 4 sometimes on some spots on luna.

And i guess it makes a big difference cause i remember commentators mentioning that sometimes in mirror matchups you notice people with the same build order one having more scvs or a faster rax/fact.





There is no 12 at luna, you mean 11 because thats where alot of terrans put their supply depot.
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