True not alot of people know about it
Only a few games i saw where pros do that one i remember is paranoid andriod wcg 2007 stork vs hwasin. Hwasin did it.

Tensai176

Canada2061 Posts

January 07 2008 06:59 GMT

#42

Including all the points being said, its also convinient for getting the 9th depot with the 9th scv. If you do the split perfectly, you'd get 100 minerals as soon as the 9th scv comes out, i just saw FBH do this against Savior and as soon as it came out he built a supply depot, so the 11th scv wont hit a supply block.

Leath

Canada1724 Posts

January 07 2008 07:13 GMT

#43

certainly not to forward the scv, specially at this position.
The order the scv is:
10@9@8@7
11@@@@@6
12@@@@@5
@1@2@3@4

By covering 2,3,4, if a scv is returning a cargo at 1, the scv would spawn at 5, and therefore much farther way from the minerals.

if the minerals were at the right side and the supply depot blocked 1-3, you might argue it has a bit of an advantage.

I dont think there is no particular reason. Maybe to position the barracks on the right side of the cc, adjacent to both cc and supply. marines can walk in between, but zealots cant.

skyglow1

New Zealand3962 Posts

January 07 2008 08:41 GMT

#44

On January 07 2008 16:13 Leath wrote:
certainly not to forward the scv, specially at this position.
The order the scv is:
10@9@8@7
11@@@@@6
12@@@@@5
@1@2@3@4

By covering 2,3,4, if a scv is returning a cargo at 1, the scv would spawn at 5, and therefore much farther way from the minerals.

if the minerals were at the right side and the supply depot blocked 1-3, you might argue it has a bit of an advantage.

I dont think there is no particular reason. Maybe to position the barracks on the right side of the cc, adjacent to both cc and supply. marines can walk in between, but zealots cant.

Wrong way around. A rax would need to be placed on the left side of the depot, not on the right [Edit]Woops it seems a CC placed in that position above the supply makes the rax-on-the-right setup actually work. Strange

[/Edit]. A rax + CC combo in that position would work, but this would not involve the supply, so the placement of the supply cannot be for the reason of creating the special gap.

Not only that, the supply + CC gap does not allow a rine through.

ForAdun

Germany986 Posts

January 07 2008 09:09 GMT

#45

Luckily I was able to play a game on ICCup against 2 off-gate zealot rush on Python. The following replay is not to prove that terran wins the game, actually I believe if protoss follows a good game plan after the rush he has about equal or even better chances. In that case he is slightly behind so he has to be tricky, like using DT's to save his off-gates from the first counter-attack. In my replay the protoss takes his 2nd expansion way too late so I won in the middle game, not because he rushed me. Keep that in mind.
You can still see the tiny advantage I've spoken about after the initial rush. My vulture control wasn't too strong (I lost 2 of them unneccessarily) but the advantage was still big enough to pressure him a bit.

PS: It wasn't the most dangerous 2 gate rush. Keep in mind that you'd probably lose the game if the rush is even stronger and your vulture control looks like mine in that replay. Work on your vulture control as hard as you can, zealot rush can be a bitch.

http://rapidshare.com/files/81908071/0366_ETBrooDT_undrelikP.rep.html

Lets send them cheesers back to wherever they belong to!

Ilikestarcraft

Korea (South)17741 Posts

January 07 2008 10:59 GMT

#46

Lots of tosses on iccup and 99% of them cheese

foeffa

Belgium2115 Posts

January 07 2008 14:13 GMT

#47

On January 06 2008 10:34 ForAdun wrote:
wall in

Tx, informative post. =)

skyglow1

New Zealand3962 Posts

January 07 2008 22:41 GMT

#48

On January 07 2008 23:13 foeffa wrote:

Show nested quote +

Tx, informative post. =)

I'm guessing you misunderstood his post and thought that he was just saying to do a normal wall-in? Read again.

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

January 08 2008 09:01 GMT

#49

On January 05 2008 08:39 Chill wrote:

Show nested quote +

My understanding is that StarCraft has a point it wants to create a unit (I think it's typically bottom left but I could be wrong) and if that's blocked it rotates around counter-clockwise until there's an opening and places the unit there. I don't think there's a "buffer zone" where it checks if there is an opening closer to the clockwise side than counter-clockwise. So I don't think it's possible to force units to be created farther left unless you block off everything else.

This can be seen in UMS maps where Terran has no building time - the first SCV pops out bottom left, and then they continue around to the right. At no point does one suddenly come out at the left.

Of course I could be wrong, I'm not at home to test this out.

~~You just made me think of a good idea for SC2, If they made the building AI detect a building on its side and make a unit pop out opposite to it.~~ This would help in positional imbalance when walling and whatnot.

Actually It would just be a lot easier if the Rally point AI was fixed so that the unit pops out on the closest side to the rally.

PS- I was trying to illustrate how this pylon placement on OG bloodbath helps the probes in their fucked up return route but noticed a glitch
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=64897

Anyways, This is what I was trying to show:

Pylon Fix:
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=174727

Gas Fix:
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=6635017
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=8864602
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=4439677

Alternate Pylon Fix (just discovered):
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=1969930

It seems that the angle of attack (aviation term lol) can effect how the worker decides to return. Some probes can be manually manipulated to the other open side of the crystal and will return and come back on that correct (faster) path. Others will not regardless of which side the mine from. So a building such as a pylon will permanently correct it.

Later on however, when the minerals are saturated it may or may not hinder mining due to wandering workers coming from all angles.

il0seonpurpose

Korea (South)5638 Posts

January 08 2008 20:51 GMT

#50

On January 05 2008 12:02 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
On luna at 12 they put it to the left of the cc to correct the mining path and on python 1.2 on 9 if you dont manually control your scv it goes all the way to the back like it got manner pyloned or something so a depot fixes that. And on some other maps like i guess zodiac has the same problem. Saw in the recent msl group games mind puts his depot to the bottom right of his cc at 11 o clock. I guess its the same as putting depots or a pool in the path of your gas so you can put 3 instead of 4 sometimes on some spots on luna.

And i guess it makes a big difference cause i remember commentators mentioning that sometimes in mirror matchups you notice people with the same build order one having more scvs or a faster rax/fact.

There is no 12 at luna, you mean 11 because thats where alot of terrans put their supply depot.

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