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UPDATE 4 - Well, more polishing on some aspects, trying new features and also creating +2 Zerg Cards and +1 Protoss Card meanwhile. Still looking for "pros" trying to help me with these, since on many cases I'm not really sure about the freshness of these.
Overview:
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/6bD58Y4/Upload-All-Builds.png)
Also, an user on Reddit suggested an extra section regarding Scout cases. I noticed some builds on Liquipedia have a lot of case scenarios (like the 12 Pool VS Zerg), but also there's many of them saying nothing about "If you scout this, do that...". I think I'll try to squeeze a new section on the right column and see if fits it's purpose, but on most cases I'll not have access to that info.
Still, the main problem is that the explanation of the build needs and specific style and structure, and that only will be possible with the help of really good players defining what is important and what is not. Any help or channels to seek this, will be much appreciated.
Here are the new additions 
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/TcqSrJj/9-Pool-VS-Terran.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/wLJgYY0/12-Pool-VS-Zerg.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/HDG3djB/12-Nexus-5-Zealot-Fast-Expansion-VS-Protoss.png)
I will appreciate if you guys send me new build suggestions!
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New update (Listed on OP)
Update v.0.1
- Cleaned the whole thread so newcomers can understand the whole project without getting overwhelmed.
- MIRO Board: ENTER HERE
This will help us a lot on the short-mid term. Since I'll be adding more and more cards in the future, it will get hard to keep up with new additions, etc. If you sigN up on MIRO, you will be able to see all cards and navigate through them (Zoom In, Zoom Out, Export images, etc). Right now there's not enough content to start making groups or dividing the builds in different categories (only races), but if the thing gets bigger and bigger and the plan for a website gets delayed, this can be a good way to keep things organized and easy to read.
- NEW CARD - Bunker Rush VS Zerg
- NEW SECTION ADDED - Scout Adaptation.
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
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Do you have any other sources for your cards than liquipedia?
I read the bunker rush card and the advised timing in your "pushing out" paragraph is lackluster but it does not come from liquipedia, so I was wondering about that. You usually start pushing with 2 marines at the latest. If you wait until 4 marines are done, Zerg should have already scouted you, making a sunken at home and feeling good.
And in the scouting adaption box you write that when you scout a 12 hatch, you should cancel any marines and go for CC, which just makes no sense.
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On November 30 2020 05:00 Cryoc wrote:
Do you have any other sources for your cards than liquipedia?
I read the bunker rush card and the advised timing in your "pushing out" paragraph is lackluster but it does not come from liquipedia, so I was wondering about that. You usually start pushing with 2 marines at the latest. If you wait until 4 marines are done, Zerg should have already scouted you, making a sunken at home and feeling good.
And in the scouting adaption box you write that when you scout a 12 hatch, you should cancel any marines and go for CC, which just makes no sense.
Not at the moment...  That's why I require people to guide me some way.
I found more sources but the styleguide doesn't fit the purpose or the BO don't cover any explanation at all, just the build order itself.
The pushing out paragraph comes from here:
 Bunker Rush (vs. Zerg)
It is exactly how it appears on Liquipedia I think. If you read the Note down below (on the card) it says to rally your marines to Zerg's base, so I guess that covers the 2 marine push you're talking about?
Still, I changed the text on the note so it becomes more clear.
Regarding the scouting adaption box, you're right. I was about to do another different build before Bunker Rush and forgot that there :S
It's updated and fixed on the MIRO board now. Thanks!
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Update v.0.3 - 30/11/20
- NEW CARD - 1 Fact Fast Expand VS Terran VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - Forge Fast Expand VS Zerg
- NEW CARD - Overpool VS Zerg
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
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Update v.0.4 - 1/12/20
- NEW CARD - 1 Rax Fast Expand VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - 1 Gate Reaver VS Terran I have some doubts with this one
- NEW CARD - 3 Hatch Hydralisk VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - 12 Pool VS Zerg VS Zerg
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
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Just a minor question, how come a 12 nex build is 3 on the economy score? I get that you are going 2 gate and building zealots, but still?
edit: there's also some mistakes, like writing 'their' instead of 'your' in a couple cards
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On December 02 2020 13:10 fazek42 wrote:
Just a minor question, how come a 12 nex build is 3 on the economy score? I get that you are going 2 gate and building zealots, but still?
edit: there's also some mistakes, like writing 'their' instead of 'your' in a couple cards
I’ll check the score and fix it before Friday. Sometimes I paste that section from a diferent card and forget about it! Thanks
Regarding those mistakes, can you point those cards? I’m trying to read the card meticulously so they share at least the same style (for example some builds say “You have to do this...” and others day “Protoss have to do this”. Also I’m not an english native speaker so I have to double check stuff sometimes.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Aside from that, can anyone point more builds that can be useful nowadays? I find myself scavenging Liquipedia and sometimes wondering if a build I want to add is still viable or completely obsolete.
As I always say, I’m looking for skilled players in order to help me out reviewing these or suggesting new content.
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On December 02 2020 13:10 fazek42 wrote:
Just a minor question, how come a 12 nex build is 3 on the economy score? I get that you are going 2 gate and building zealots, but still?
I checked that. It's 6 on eco on MIRO.
Some cards got fixes after moving all the stuff to the collaborative board.
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Update v.0.6 - 5/12/20
- NEW CARD - 2 Gate DT Rush vs Protoss
- NEW CARD - 7 Pool vs Terran
- MIRO Board Updated HERE.
- Fixed a mistake on 3 Hatch Hydralisk Card (Drone production had a Hatchery icon).
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
- Looking for a good 973 Build guide for Zerg. I want to make that card next or soon.
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I've edited my last comment instead of publishing a new one by mistake T_T
v.0.6 is up!
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Thx for your hard work, i hope many real experts/ pros and higher players can help you. Liquipedia is ok, but often has many things that are questionable or just not up to date anymore, to specific to one map/situation, or just doesnt make sense because someonejust copy and pasted it from some game/ video without considering the ingame situation that would make somebody change the general flow of the build.
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On December 06 2020 12:25 Leonix wrote:
Thx for your hard work, i hope many real experts/ pros and higher players can help you. Liquipedia is ok, but often has many things that are questionable or just not up to date anymore, to specific to one map/situation, or just doesnt make sense because someonejust copy and pasted it from some game/ video without considering the ingame situation that would make somebody change the general flow of the build.
Well, since the first post, nobody offered me their help... I requested help here, Reddit, Discord... I messaged Artosis/Tasteless on Twitter to see if they could spread the word, but still no luck.
To be honest, I'll probably continue with this for a couple of weeks without any help, but if no one is interested on the project (at least on the helping part), I'll have to probably discontinue the whole thing and abort mission since I don't have any knowledge regarding a big chunk of the nowadays builds.
It's sad, but I think the community is not that big anymore? It surprises me on a way.
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It's more like that you can't distill everything about a build into a small card, which is why you have blocks of text, which justapoxes awkwardly with the massive aggression/economy number graphic. It doesn't help that as you admit, you lack the knowledge base and are just taking the infomation of from liquipedia, in which case someone looking for help would be better directed to the source and get the whole information from there instead. And yes, the community isn't that big anymore.
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On December 06 2020 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
It's more like that you can't distill everything about a build into a small card, which is why you have blocks of text, which justapoxes awkwardly with the massive aggression/economy number graphic. It doesn't help that as you admit, you lack the knowledge base and are just taking the infomation of from liquipedia, in which case someone looking for help would be better directed to the source and get the whole information from there instead. And yes, the community isn't that big anymore.
Well, first of all, I'm not aiming to make an encyclopedia of every build. As I said this is only to help newbies, old players returning to SC:Remastered, etc. Let's say every card is a starting point for the build, even if it contains a lot of info.
If you search for build order resources you'll end with a Google Docs or an Excel document that is even less descriptive about the build, just showing the build order without any other advice or extra info.
What you call blocks of text are just clarifications, notes and pieces of advice to help the player understand the build order, since as you said, a build order is more than "build this, now this" and that's it.
I think it's a good point to have extra info and I can't picture people going "TLDR, I just want to read the BO without understanding anything else". I don't see an SC player doing that... but who knows.
The "massive" aggression/economy number graphic is just an indicator on how aggressive or economical the build is. A basic and broad suggestion on how to approach that build and see if it is all-iny, or you can play it safely, etc. I don't see a problem there, and if it is a problem, you can always make a suggestion. I always said I'm open to include, delete or change the whole stuff.
I lack knowledge about a lot of things. Sadly I'm not an S, A, or even B player. Even if I were, I'll only be understanding 1/3 of the game most of the times.
I wish I have all the knowledge to build the whole thing (I'll do it faster and more easily), but I cannot spend that much time practicing and learning about the game, so that's why I'm trying to help people like me by doing this. As I said, I'm not here to educate anyone and unluckily I cannot develop the whole thing alone. That's why I asked the community for help. I'm the guy who can gather the info and present it on a easy-to-access manner, which is a part of the project. At least that's how I see it.
Sure, you can go to Liquipedia, why should I build anything else? But as I said, I think I could improve the way the information is presented (and a lot of people was engaged by the idea). Plus, Liquipedia lacks information on most of the articles, and this could be a great opportunity to revise things and expand others. Could I beg for people to do that on Liquipedia? Sure, but it is not my responsability and also, as I said, Liquipedia doesn't seem the best way to look up for Build Orders for me.
Love the game, I'll love to improve at it, and I started this project also as a way to improve, by learning new builds (for every race) and understanding the whole thing better. I think anyone can benefit from that.
I guess, as you said, the community is not as big as it was and it's hard to find enthusiastic people trying to help.
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I think it's a great tool as a returning player that wasn't ever great. It's visually nice & organizes texts nicely without having to scroll up & down too much. I personally like using this while playing & having the card off to the side & following as I play.
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This is cool, please continue doing them!
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On December 07 2020 08:38 SynC[gm] wrote:
I think it's a great tool as a returning player that wasn't ever great. It's visually nice & organizes texts nicely without having to scroll up & down too much. I personally like using this while playing & having the card off to the side & following as I play.
On December 08 2020 17:06 Dante08 wrote:
This is cool, please continue doing them!
Thanks, I'll continue to add what I can some days of the week.
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EPT
