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MIRO Board with all the cards HERE
Hello,
Welcome to the StarCraft:Brood War Buildcard Project
What is a Buildcard?
As a graphic designer and a StarCraft fan, I'm trying to organize Build Orders information on a visual manner. With this approach, I think people will get more interested in Build Order checking, studying or basically will feel more comfortable consulting information regarding Build Orders, since the vast majority of time this kind of information is presented on Excel/Google Docs and players can get overwhelmed by wall texts with limited format options.
If people is interested, my goal is to create almost every "useful" build and distribute them on each race.
After that, I could relate them via links, create more specific "cards" like scout information for example. If the initiative gets lot of attention, I would be interested in partnering with someone and even creating a website, where you can filter these builds, navigate more freely and basically build a community around strategy.
Example of Buildcards
+ Show Spoiler +
Where can I find these?
I've set a MIRO Board HERE
MIRO is a team collaboration whiteboard. I'll be dumping new cards there as soon as I create them.
In the mid-term or long-term, I'll try to organize and filter them based on different aspects (now is only race), and maybe create more cards, not only based on Build Orders, but also Roadmaps, etc.
Do you need help?[/i]
Oh yes. I'm still looking for:
- Expert players to guide me through the builds. Some entries on Liquipedia (my source) lack information, or don't follow any specific format, which is quite important if I want to create equivalent cards.
- Also find a roadmap on which builds would be more important and create those first.
Any suggestion will be well received!
Thanks!
UPDATE LOG
Past Updates
+ Show Spoiler +Update v.0.1 - 29/11/20- Cleaned the whole thread so newcomers can understand the whole project without getting overwhelmed.
- MIRO Board: ENTER HERE
This will help us a lot on the short-mid term. Since I'll be adding more and more cards in the future, it will get hard to keep up with new additions, etc. If you sigN up on MIRO, you will be able to see all cards and navigate through them (Zoom In, Zoom Out, Export images, etc). Right now there's not enough content to start making groups or dividing the builds in different categories (only races), but if the thing gets bigger and bigger and the plan for a website gets delayed, this can be a good way to keep things organized and easy to read.
- NEW CARD - Bunker Rush VS Zerg
- NEW SECTION ADDED - Scout Adaptation.
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
+ Show Spoiler +Update v.0.2 30/11/20- NEW CARD - 2 Fact Vulture Mines VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - 2 Gate Range Expand VS Terran
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
+ Show Spoiler +Update v.0.3 - 30/11/20- NEW CARD - 1 Fact Fast Expand VS Terran VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - Forge Fast Expand VS Zerg
- NEW CARD - Overpool VS Zerg
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
+ Show Spoiler +Update v.0.4 - 1/12/20- NEW CARD - 1 Rax Fast Expand VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - 1 Gate Reaver VS Terran I have some doubts with this one
- NEW CARD - 3 Hatch Hydralisk VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - 12 Pool VS Zerg VS Zerg
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
+ Show Spoiler +Update v.0.5 - 3/12/20- NEW CARD - 2 Gate Reaver
- NEW CARD - 4 Rax Sunken Break vs Zerg
- MIRO Board Updated HERE.
- Fixing "bugs".
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
- Looking for a good 973 Build guide for Zerg. I want to make that card next or soon.
+ Show Spoiler +Update v.0.6 - 5/12/20- NEW CARD - 2 Gate DT Rush vs Protoss
- NEW CARD - 7 Pool vs Terran
- MIRO Board Updated HERE.
- Fixed a mistake on 3 Hatch Hydralisk Card (Drone production had a Hatchery icon).
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
- Looking for a good 973 Build guide for Zerg. I want to make that card next or soon.
Update v.0.7 - 8/12/20
- NEW CARD - 2 Port Wraith vs Terran
- NEW CARD - 14 CC vs Terran
- MIRO Board Updated HERE.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
- Looking for a good 973 Build guide for Zerg. I want to make that card next or soon.
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Looks neat. If you could create even just enough cards to cover all the bread 'n' butter builds of all the matchups, that'd be nice for any newbies/semi-veterans or returnees.
As for "someone to guide you": I feel that, ideally or in a later stage of the project, there would have to be some kind of work-setup where all the good or knowledgeable players who learn about this initative and are willing to help can counter-check the current versions of the cards and contribute (suggest changes/additions). Could quickly end in arguments and a mess though. Maybe a smaller group is better, at least for a start.
As for the card you've shown above: Isn't 2hatch-muta quite a good (soft-)counter to 1-1-1, as it forces T to delay/abandon vessel tech (for a while), rush to cloaked wraiths and lots of turrets to survive the first wave of mutas?
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It's so pretty, the design is amazing, the idea - even more so! Go for it!
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This is really cool, now lets make some Protoss cards
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Nice! You should check out the Engineering Bay discord in case anyone there may be able to help you out. I can't generate an invite link right now but I'll update this post once I can.
edit: link https://discord.com/invite/cV5tzs5
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I've also thought about doing something (not quite) like this in the realm of https://roamresearch.com/ where everything can get connected. Anyways, great design.
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On November 27 2020 07:18 dark.matter wrote:I've also thought about doing something (not quite) like this in the realm of https://roamresearch.com/ where everything can get connected. Anyways, great design.
Well, I'm doing this on a collaborative software called Figma. On Figma you can invite people and basically they can roam around and see all the stuff. I can even put links between builds so people can travel from one to another. You can also create prototypes, so maybe in the future I could add tooltips, animated transitions, and a lot of stuff. People can leave comments there so I can edit the document easily, and if you create an account, you can duplicate the file and make your own build orders using the pieces!
As I said, maybe that would be really complicated if I had dozens of cards, so that's why I said that if the idea sounds good, I would be more than happy to build a website so people can navigate easily or even filter builds by lots of stuff: aggresive, retro builds, new builds, counters, builds that work well on specific maps, etc. But yeah, that's the future haha.
I will add a new format for the card in a few minutes, so you can tell me if it's better that way or the original. I'm still working on a "good" sheet, easy to understand but also versatile so I can deal with all builds in a simple format instead of having to "break" it in some specific cases.
I'm also trying to gather the Remastered icons so I can start to define the definitive pieces and after that... it's just only patience and pasting/swapping the content.
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This is amazing, I would love to have something like this.
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This looks awesome and such a great resource for CPL.
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This looks great and I like the initiative very much.
However, before you proceed, you should put up goal posts along the way. Do you want to do this for every strategy? If so, it'd be probably worth considering creating a template for one of the more complicated builds. A complex card should theoretically be the better basis. This way you could also figure out how much the graphic helps before it gets too complicated.
Also, how do you "calculate" the aggression/economy part?
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Good Job friend, it sounds good
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On November 27 2020 15:41 GeckoXp wrote: This looks great and I like the initiative very much.
However, before you proceed, you should put up goal posts along the way. Do you want to do this for every strategy? If so, it'd be probably worth considering creating a template for one of the more complicated builds. A complex card should theoretically be the better basis. This way you could also figure out how much the graphic helps before it gets too complicated.
Also, how do you "calculate" the aggression/economy part?
Thanks for your feedback.
Regarding your first question, well yeah, I'll try to create these kind of cards for every build. I'll try to start with the mainstream or most used ones, and then I'll try to follow up with the rest of it. I mean, I'm sure that you can count, let's say 300 builds, but I want to stick to the ones that are "useful" and not weird builds like... CC on 25 then SCV all-in.
And yeah, you're pretty right, I should pick the most complex build order I can find on Liquipedia and try to fit that on a single card. See if the sheet can hold it or if it needs any tweaks. In fact, if anyone can suggest the most complicated build order, I will be happy to recreate that and see how it turns out.
About "calculating" the aggression/economy part, I wanted to include a basic indicator about how aggressive or economical a build is. It is not a "scientific" number based on data, income or anything related. That's why I said at the beginning that I would need at least a couple of "expert" advisors to really grade this builds regarding those two variables. As I said, I just want people to know how greedy or all-in a build is and base their mentality around it. I tried multiple builds thinking that they were "fine" regarding macro, but in the end I realized that those were quite risky or not good facing the late game. I want to help that kind of people.
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This is awesome! Some more for more Zerg builds would be great before moving onto other races & what have you.
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UPDATE 4 - Well, more polishing on some aspects, trying new features and also creating +2 Zerg Cards and +1 Protoss Card meanwhile. Still looking for "pros" trying to help me with these, since on many cases I'm not really sure about the freshness of these.
Overview:
Also, an user on Reddit suggested an extra section regarding Scout cases. I noticed some builds on Liquipedia have a lot of case scenarios (like the 12 Pool VS Zerg), but also there's many of them saying nothing about "If you scout this, do that...". I think I'll try to squeeze a new section on the right column and see if fits it's purpose, but on most cases I'll not have access to that info.
Still, the main problem is that the explanation of the build needs and specific style and structure, and that only will be possible with the help of really good players defining what is important and what is not. Any help or channels to seek this, will be much appreciated.
Here are the new additions
I will appreciate if you guys send me new build suggestions!
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New update (Listed on OP)
Update v.0.1
- Cleaned the whole thread so newcomers can understand the whole project without getting overwhelmed.
- MIRO Board: ENTER HERE
This will help us a lot on the short-mid term. Since I'll be adding more and more cards in the future, it will get hard to keep up with new additions, etc. If you sigN up on MIRO, you will be able to see all cards and navigate through them (Zoom In, Zoom Out, Export images, etc). Right now there's not enough content to start making groups or dividing the builds in different categories (only races), but if the thing gets bigger and bigger and the plan for a website gets delayed, this can be a good way to keep things organized and easy to read.
- NEW CARD - Bunker Rush VS Zerg
- NEW SECTION ADDED - Scout Adaptation.
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
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Do you have any other sources for your cards than liquipedia? I read the bunker rush card and the advised timing in your "pushing out" paragraph is lackluster but it does not come from liquipedia, so I was wondering about that. You usually start pushing with 2 marines at the latest. If you wait until 4 marines are done, Zerg should have already scouted you, making a sunken at home and feeling good. And in the scouting adaption box you write that when you scout a 12 hatch, you should cancel any marines and go for CC, which just makes no sense.
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On November 30 2020 05:00 Cryoc wrote: Do you have any other sources for your cards than liquipedia? I read the bunker rush card and the advised timing in your "pushing out" paragraph is lackluster but it does not come from liquipedia, so I was wondering about that. You usually start pushing with 2 marines at the latest. If you wait until 4 marines are done, Zerg should have already scouted you, making a sunken at home and feeling good. And in the scouting adaption box you write that when you scout a 12 hatch, you should cancel any marines and go for CC, which just makes no sense.
Not at the moment... That's why I require people to guide me some way.
I found more sources but the styleguide doesn't fit the purpose or the BO don't cover any explanation at all, just the build order itself.
The pushing out paragraph comes from here: Bunker Rush (vs. Zerg)
It is exactly how it appears on Liquipedia I think. If you read the Note down below (on the card) it says to rally your marines to Zerg's base, so I guess that covers the 2 marine push you're talking about?
Still, I changed the text on the note so it becomes more clear.
Regarding the scouting adaption box, you're right. I was about to do another different build before Bunker Rush and forgot that there :S
It's updated and fixed on the MIRO board now. Thanks!
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Update v.0.3 - 30/11/20
- NEW CARD - 1 Fact Fast Expand VS Terran VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - Forge Fast Expand VS Zerg
- NEW CARD - Overpool VS Zerg
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
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Update v.0.4 - 1/12/20
- NEW CARD - 1 Rax Fast Expand VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - 1 Gate Reaver VS Terran I have some doubts with this one
- NEW CARD - 3 Hatch Hydralisk VS Protoss
- NEW CARD - 12 Pool VS Zerg VS Zerg
- General polishing, fixing some "bugs" and reworking old cards with new additions, etc.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
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Just a minor question, how come a 12 nex build is 3 on the economy score? I get that you are going 2 gate and building zealots, but still?
edit: there's also some mistakes, like writing 'their' instead of 'your' in a couple cards
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On December 02 2020 13:10 fazek42 wrote: Just a minor question, how come a 12 nex build is 3 on the economy score? I get that you are going 2 gate and building zealots, but still?
edit: there's also some mistakes, like writing 'their' instead of 'your' in a couple cards
I’ll check the score and fix it before Friday. Sometimes I paste that section from a diferent card and forget about it! Thanks
Regarding those mistakes, can you point those cards? I’m trying to read the card meticulously so they share at least the same style (for example some builds say “You have to do this...” and others day “Protoss have to do this”. Also I’m not an english native speaker so I have to double check stuff sometimes.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Aside from that, can anyone point more builds that can be useful nowadays? I find myself scavenging Liquipedia and sometimes wondering if a build I want to add is still viable or completely obsolete.
As I always say, I’m looking for skilled players in order to help me out reviewing these or suggesting new content.
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On December 02 2020 13:10 fazek42 wrote: Just a minor question, how come a 12 nex build is 3 on the economy score? I get that you are going 2 gate and building zealots, but still?
I checked that. It's 6 on eco on MIRO.
Some cards got fixes after moving all the stuff to the collaborative board.
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Update v.0.6 - 5/12/20
- NEW CARD - 2 Gate DT Rush vs Protoss
- NEW CARD - 7 Pool vs Terran
- MIRO Board Updated HERE.
- Fixed a mistake on 3 Hatch Hydralisk Card (Drone production had a Hatchery icon).
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
- Looking for a good 973 Build guide for Zerg. I want to make that card next or soon.
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I've edited my last comment instead of publishing a new one by mistake T_T
v.0.6 is up!
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Thx for your hard work, i hope many real experts/ pros and higher players can help you. Liquipedia is ok, but often has many things that are questionable or just not up to date anymore, to specific to one map/situation, or just doesnt make sense because someonejust copy and pasted it from some game/ video without considering the ingame situation that would make somebody change the general flow of the build.
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On December 06 2020 12:25 Leonix wrote: Thx for your hard work, i hope many real experts/ pros and higher players can help you. Liquipedia is ok, but often has many things that are questionable or just not up to date anymore, to specific to one map/situation, or just doesnt make sense because someonejust copy and pasted it from some game/ video without considering the ingame situation that would make somebody change the general flow of the build.
Well, since the first post, nobody offered me their help... I requested help here, Reddit, Discord... I messaged Artosis/Tasteless on Twitter to see if they could spread the word, but still no luck.
To be honest, I'll probably continue with this for a couple of weeks without any help, but if no one is interested on the project (at least on the helping part), I'll have to probably discontinue the whole thing and abort mission since I don't have any knowledge regarding a big chunk of the nowadays builds.
It's sad, but I think the community is not that big anymore? It surprises me on a way.
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It's more like that you can't distill everything about a build into a small card, which is why you have blocks of text, which justapoxes awkwardly with the massive aggression/economy number graphic. It doesn't help that as you admit, you lack the knowledge base and are just taking the infomation of from liquipedia, in which case someone looking for help would be better directed to the source and get the whole information from there instead. And yes, the community isn't that big anymore.
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On December 06 2020 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It's more like that you can't distill everything about a build into a small card, which is why you have blocks of text, which justapoxes awkwardly with the massive aggression/economy number graphic. It doesn't help that as you admit, you lack the knowledge base and are just taking the infomation of from liquipedia, in which case someone looking for help would be better directed to the source and get the whole information from there instead. And yes, the community isn't that big anymore.
Well, first of all, I'm not aiming to make an encyclopedia of every build. As I said this is only to help newbies, old players returning to SC:Remastered, etc. Let's say every card is a starting point for the build, even if it contains a lot of info.
If you search for build order resources you'll end with a Google Docs or an Excel document that is even less descriptive about the build, just showing the build order without any other advice or extra info.
What you call blocks of text are just clarifications, notes and pieces of advice to help the player understand the build order, since as you said, a build order is more than "build this, now this" and that's it.
I think it's a good point to have extra info and I can't picture people going "TLDR, I just want to read the BO without understanding anything else". I don't see an SC player doing that... but who knows.
The "massive" aggression/economy number graphic is just an indicator on how aggressive or economical the build is. A basic and broad suggestion on how to approach that build and see if it is all-iny, or you can play it safely, etc. I don't see a problem there, and if it is a problem, you can always make a suggestion. I always said I'm open to include, delete or change the whole stuff.
I lack knowledge about a lot of things. Sadly I'm not an S, A, or even B player. Even if I were, I'll only be understanding 1/3 of the game most of the times.
I wish I have all the knowledge to build the whole thing (I'll do it faster and more easily), but I cannot spend that much time practicing and learning about the game, so that's why I'm trying to help people like me by doing this. As I said, I'm not here to educate anyone and unluckily I cannot develop the whole thing alone. That's why I asked the community for help. I'm the guy who can gather the info and present it on a easy-to-access manner, which is a part of the project. At least that's how I see it.
Sure, you can go to Liquipedia, why should I build anything else? But as I said, I think I could improve the way the information is presented (and a lot of people was engaged by the idea). Plus, Liquipedia lacks information on most of the articles, and this could be a great opportunity to revise things and expand others. Could I beg for people to do that on Liquipedia? Sure, but it is not my responsability and also, as I said, Liquipedia doesn't seem the best way to look up for Build Orders for me.
Love the game, I'll love to improve at it, and I started this project also as a way to improve, by learning new builds (for every race) and understanding the whole thing better. I think anyone can benefit from that.
I guess, as you said, the community is not as big as it was and it's hard to find enthusiastic people trying to help.
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I think it's a great tool as a returning player that wasn't ever great. It's visually nice & organizes texts nicely without having to scroll up & down too much. I personally like using this while playing & having the card off to the side & following as I play.
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This is cool, please continue doing them!
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On December 07 2020 08:38 SynC[gm] wrote: I think it's a great tool as a returning player that wasn't ever great. It's visually nice & organizes texts nicely without having to scroll up & down too much. I personally like using this while playing & having the card off to the side & following as I play.
On December 08 2020 17:06 Dante08 wrote: This is cool, please continue doing them!
Thanks, I'll continue to add what I can some days of the week.
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Update v.0.7 - 8/12/20
I'm not sure about these two. If someone can do a double-check I'll be thankful.
- NEW CARD - 2 Port Wraith vs Terran
- NEW CARD - 14 CC vs Terran
- MIRO Board Updated HERE.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
- Looking for a good 973 Build guide for Zerg. I want to make that card next or soon.
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awesome, thanks for posting
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Update v.0.8 - 14/12/20
- NEW CARD - Bulldog VS Terran
- MIRO Board Updated HERE.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
- Looking for a good 973 Build guide for Zerg. I want to make that card next or soon.
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Small suggestion from an editor's POV - consistency of capitalizing unit names. For example, in Bulldog there is both "probe" and "Probe." A quick Ctrl+F+replace should handle it
Also, can I ask how you decide the aggression vs. economy ratios?
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As a Brood War noob, these cards are awesome! This is easily the best resource I've come across for BOs (Liquipedia can leave a lot to be desired in it's current state).
If I could suggest a build to be covered, how about Siege Expand vs Protoss? Liquipedia page: Siege Expand (vs. Protoss)
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On December 16 2020 14:47 Jealous wrote:Small suggestion from an editor's POV - consistency of capitalizing unit names. For example, in Bulldog there is both "probe" and "Probe." A quick Ctrl+F+replace should handle it Also, can I ask how you decide the aggression vs. economy ratios?
I know that's something that can slip sometimes, since I re-write most of the content to cope with the structure. I'll review these on the next update
The aggression vs. economy is orientative. I use 10 aggression for, let's say 6 pool, and 10 economy for 3 hatch before pool. I tend to suffer on some specific builds that are quite balanced, for example the ones that go expand and at the same time prepare some time of push early on. But as I said, it's not based on statistics or anything related, it's more about "feeling" and people getting a fast look on how safe or all-iny a build is. If you have suggestions regarding this, let me know!
On December 17 2020 04:18 Zacistan1 wrote:As a Brood War noob, these cards are awesome! This is easily the best resource I've come across for BOs (Liquipedia can leave a lot to be desired in it's current state). If I could suggest a build to be covered, how about Siege Expand vs Protoss? Liquipedia page: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Siege_Expand_(vs._Protoss)
Thanks!
And sure. I will cover that build on the following update.
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On December 17 2020 04:33 subanchoide wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2020 14:47 Jealous wrote:Small suggestion from an editor's POV - consistency of capitalizing unit names. For example, in Bulldog there is both "probe" and "Probe." A quick Ctrl+F+replace should handle it Also, can I ask how you decide the aggression vs. economy ratios? I know that's something that can slip sometimes, since I re-write most of the content to cope with the structure. I'll review these on the next update The aggression vs. economy is orientative. I use 10 aggression for, let's say 6 pool, and 10 economy for 3 hatch before pool. I tend to suffer on some specific builds that are quite balanced, for example the ones that go expand and at the same time prepare some time of push early on. But as I said, it's not based on statistics or anything related, it's more about "feeling" and people getting a fast look on how safe or all-iny a build is. If you have suggestions regarding this, let me know! Thanks! And sure. I will cover that build on the following update. Well, in that case I think 4 Pool should be Aggression 10, 5 Pool Aggression 9, 6 Pool Aggression 8
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Update v.0.9 - 21/12/20
- NEW CARD - Siege Expand VS Protoss
- MIRO Board Updated HERE.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
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On December 17 2020 04:18 Zacistan1 wrote:As a Brood War noob, these cards are awesome! This is easily the best resource I've come across for BOs (Liquipedia can leave a lot to be desired in it's current state). If I could suggest a build to be covered, how about Siege Expand vs Protoss? Liquipedia page: https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Siege_Expand_(vs._Protoss)
Done! If anyone has more suggestions for the next build card, feel free to post here.
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This looks great. Can you mirror these cards to an imgur album or other image hosting site? That way it's easier to access/download.
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On December 23 2020 01:02 olabaz wrote: This looks great. Can you mirror these cards to an imgur album or other image hosting site? That way it's easier to access/download.
Sure, I'll do if it helps. Will be a point on the next update.
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Just now seeing this, and as a chobo this helps a lot! Stuff like this is what needs to be out there to attract new players as well, the Liquipedia builds can look a little intimidating for outsiders.
Great stuff!
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Update v.0.10 - 27/12/20
- NEW CARD - 12 Hatch VS Zerg
- MIRO Board Updated HERE.
- Still looking for a group of volunteers helping with writing, guiding, advising. If you are interested, just PM me.
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