EPT! [G] iNc advice for Z's - Page 4
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SiZ.FaNtAsY
Korea (South)1497 Posts
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Silver
New Zealand379 Posts
On January 30 2007 00:42 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote: Sorry if this has been answered already but, I always lose when the protoss goes agressive 2 gate when I do 12 hatch. I don't know why? Is it my speed or my micro? A committed 2 gate rush is very hard to stop, even for top players like midian or mondi. In replays you will often see these players 12 hatch in base, then 3hat at expo after lings or go 9 hat so that sunks are up in time. otherwise the best thing to do if you 12 hatted is to drop 2 sunks as soon as the hat pops. *if* you can get them up that should make you completely secure as long as you are aware of a possible run past up the ramp and are ready to block with lings. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 30 2007 00:42 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote: Sorry if this has been answered already but, I always lose when the protoss goes agressive 2 gate when I do 12 hatch. I don't know why? Is it my speed or my micro? No to what Sliver said basically. If we are talking Luna or RH3 or Gaia or something (basic) 12 hatch is fine vs a 9/10 or 10/11 gate rush. This would be why you should 9 or 12 drone scout. So you can see this and know to save 3 larvae and throw down 1 maybe 2 sunks asap. I counter this by bringing 3-5 drones to my nat hatch before it finishes to try and kill his probe scout but also so that I can throw down the sunks OR use the drones in conjunction with my lings to thwart the zealots. This part of the game is crucial. Remember you DONT HAVE TO ENGAGE the zealots right away. If you have 6 lings vs his 3 zealots wait for that extra 4. But more importantly, hit him when he starts attacking the sunken, when he focuses on the lings again retreat a little and than continue to this cylce. For the extremely careful / gosu micro'rs: pull a ling back after it has been hit 2 times by a zealot, rotate them this way so that you can essentially micro your lings better. most z's are lazy in this and suffer for it. After you hold this off check with ovie (by this time it should be there) for a tech or FE or power. If they are mass zealoting with 2 or 3 gates than throw down another sunk or two, make a few drones but continue to make lings. I also research speed lings at this time so i can potentially overrun or even small ling counter to cause havoc in the base. If they tech make a spore OR a hydra den (for inevitable sair) and start macroing. If they FE macro hard core by droning and adding a 3rd hatch and once you get your economy going push to a 2nd nat and go from there. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 29 2007 23:26 Last Romantic wrote: Yeah Mondi said 9h9o9s then 11drones. I like 10h10o10s, fun to do double extractor trick. Inc: this may seem like a ridiculous question, but vs double or triple gate zealot rush, how many sunken do you make? do you make more or less based on number of probes brought along, and if so, how many? I always screw up my judgment vs 2gate rush and lose more drones than I should. No its ok, alot of Z's lose to this, not a bad Q. If they are going some kind of mass zealot build I think you should make maybe 3 - 4(most) sunkens but put evos or a hatch in front. Positioning is the more important factor here. This way his zealots have to move around constructs but also your ling force can now get a good angle on his zealots and no matter how many he has it becomes a funnel of death for the P. This would also be a good place to take 6-8 speed lings and hide them outside the p base. When he goes to run you over run the lings in and hit the gate pylon first, than go for tech buildings or possibly the probes. OR for the really sexy, hit the nexus (this is also better for smashing the probes he sends to stop the lings as they dont have minerals to stack on). | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 29 2007 20:40 Jonoman92 wrote: I read one of Mondragon's guides a while ago, and he said he usually goes 9 hatch expo, 9 pool, 9 ovie. I've tried this and i've also done what you say you usually do which is the common 12 hatch expo, 11 pool. I guess that 9 hatch is better if you think they will go high zlot pressure/rush. If you don't think they are going to rush shouldyou always go 12 hatch? I guess that 9 hatch gets you your expo mining faster, but you get drones slower so what would you suggest betweenn the two, and in what situation. -talking about ZvP as i'm sure you can tell 9hatch is only really good on amap where 2 gate is particularly strong like Rpoint or perhaps Gaia. 12 hatch is always preferable as it is economically stronger and more flexible. Also, if they 9/10 gate or love to bring 2-3 probes with the rush and you KNOW THIS (they are a common foe or something) than 9hatch is better because your sunk / lings will be done as the first zealot gets there. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 29 2007 18:54 Yogurt wrote: how do you play your ling to hive build? i'm just curious as i need new builds and stuff also thank you for the zvz guide, it actually has made zvz interesting for me, and i have fun playing it ( helpful seeing as the excess of zergs i seem to encounter on abyss server ) I think I explain my ling to hive strategy in the Z guide. Look there. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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1sd2sd3sd
660 Posts
during zvz what information should you use to decide when you make spore colonys, by the number of muta he is producing? and how many should you make? I know its situational pertaining to how many drones/how late in the game. when you are behind in zvz is it better to go for an allin approach and hope to catch them being greedy or should you try to catch up by launching guirella attacks and hoping to inflict enoough damage to come back? in zvp, when the toss fe's and you decide to 3 hat lurker contain with the 3rd hat going to seperate expo, when is it the safest time to whore drones if they are going zeal/archon/temp? | ||
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littlechava
United States7221 Posts
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Yogurt
United States4258 Posts
When the terran goes quick drop, what are some tell tale signs and what should you do? | ||
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neSix
United States1772 Posts
Thank you! | ||
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
On January 29 2007 19:39 Ghin wrote: cause you can get a 24 pack of PBR for near the price of a 6 pack of micro ale Quoted for emphasis  . | ||
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
On January 30 2007 00:42 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote: Sorry if this has been answered already but, I always lose when the protoss goes agressive 2 gate when I do 12 hatch. I don't know why? Is it my speed or my micro? What part do you lose on? The rush itself or the game after the rush? If it's the rush itself, you're losing because of speed - split better, send drones so that they get to the expo and make the pool at 300 and 200, respectively, and maybe don't scout until AFTER your pool. If it's the game after the rush, it's your micro - don't lose drones, kill his probe asap, don't take too many drones off of mins, and try to keep your sunken alive. | ||
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
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Person514cs
1004 Posts
On January 29 2007 02:55 Niji-z wrote: I always make 8-12 for the first main Muta engagement and I have them move directly INTO the enemy muta clump and hit "A" as they are within the group. This reduces most of the mutas to sub 20 health weaklings, easy picking for my mutas.! Can you give us more details on this? | ||
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
2) Hotkey 3) Engage muta battle 4) Select scourge group 5) Right click slightly past mutas or use move command to get them there 6) When most of the scourge are over the enemy mutas, use the attack command on the ground somewhere 7)... 8) Profits | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
how could you ever consider him a dificult opponent? ret has told me the same thing (that fayth is quite good at pvz). seriously, zvp has always been my worst z-matchup. I understand that he may not be trying his hardest vs a 'weak' opponent, but 15-1? how good can he be? | ||
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
 I do way better vs far stronger opponents. If it is any consolation the last few games I played vs Fayth I dominated. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On January 31 2007 01:00 5HITCOMBO wrote: Maybe it's because there are so many different ways to play ZvP... there's tech based, macro based, timing based, upgrade based... do you, ret, and iNc play similar ZvP or do you play a different style? i don't know inc's style all that well. I like very fast hive with lots of drops and lots of tech switching with as few expos as possible. Ret plays nothing like that. | ||
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