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Pretty satisifying answers, thank you. Just one aspect remained unclear:
3. If he does this in a muta battle he is fucked anyways. That close of a group is very bad in muta battle since every muta attack is guranteed to hit a muta. Even so, the scourge still work as they ignore "stacking."
It seems it's not very clear to me, how does that "bouncing" attack of the mutas work. I always thought, that it bounces to any random target within a certain range. Thus, if his muta clump is close enough to his newly built hatch/overlords/lings they should have the same probability to be hit, as the mutas. What am I missing?
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Good job Geoff, but
"1. 1-1 than 1-2 is always better."
If u meant 1-1 than 0-2, I cannot fuckin agree. Of course, 1-1 is faster than 0-2, but if you are still alive in this stage of the game you can always afford making +2 armor. It's better to camp a bit to this 0-2. When there is a fight between 2,5 vs 2,5 groups of muta, 0-2 will always win. Simple as that!
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Korea (South)1740 Posts
geoff rox
are you trying to save the strat forum all by yourself?
keep at it friend <3<3
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nice tips! i have a question about zvz though: whenever i play 12pool 11hatch at nat (on luna for example) i lose. i just dont understand how to make 6 lings with ur initial 3 larva to survive potential rushes, tech to lair/spire as fast as possible and build enough defense at ur expo to survive ling attacks. should u maynard drones to ur expo in this situation? should u build like 1 sunk and many lings or more like many sunks and few lings? my sunkens tend to get torn apart since u cant build them in the mineral line or spots like that without risking him to run through into your main (on most maps). basically i never know if i should whore drones and sunk or build more lings and no drones and so on.... could u explain that strat to me? ^^
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On January 29 2007 03:03 turretlame wrote:
Good job Geoff, but
"1. 1-1 than 1-2 is always better."
If u meant 1-1 than 0-2, I cannot fuckin agree. Of course, 1-1 is faster than 0-2, but if you are still alive in this stage of the game you can always afford making +2 armor. It's better to camp a bit to this 0-2. When there is a fight between 2,5 vs 2,5 groups of muta, 0-2 will always win. Simple as that!
UNLESS,
you play vs daze muta micro loalozl
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I don't play much zerg, but I do play ZvT instead of TvT, and look forward to the ZvT part of your guide! Teach us expo timing and how to beat that goddamn ball!
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my shitty pvz is about to get shittier
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wow, this is a realy nice thread, alot of people will be thankful of the efort put in it, too bad im a terran myself  , i wish more good players would do this, inc <3
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On January 29 2007 03:03 turretlame wrote:
Good job Geoff, but
"1. 1-1 than 1-2 is always better."
If u meant 1-1 than 0-2, I cannot fuckin agree. Of course, 1-1 is faster than 0-2, but if you are still alive in this stage of the game you can always afford making +2 armor. It's better to camp a bit to this 0-2. When there is a fight between 2,5 vs 2,5 groups of muta, 0-2 will always win. Simple as that!
if YOU meant 0-2 is better than 1-1 youre wrong in most cases.
the reason 0-1 is so much better than 1-0 is, that the armor upgrade absorbs 3 damage of the 9-3-1 muta attack, while u only gain 1/0,333/0,111 with 1-0.
the extra cost of armor is only 50/50, so u trade half of a mutalisk for a "firepower improvement" of 13.6 % ( 13 / 11.44 damage putput per muta)
=> the critial mass of mutas is around 10 to make it effective (to negate the extra hp/firepower the extra 0.5 muta provides, only roughly calculated)
if u both already are 0-1, the upgrade to 0-2 against 1-1 only gives u extra 7.2 % firepower for an extra cost of 125/125
=> u need more than 30 mutas to compensate the extra 1.25 mutas the 1-1 zerg has
so, if the muta numbers go HUGE, 0-2 beats 1-1, but this a) rarely happens in zvz and b) if it happens, most of the time there are factors like devourer or defiler who totally fuck up the calculation...
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 29 2007 03:01 Overlord wrote:Pretty satisifying answers, thank you. Just one aspect remained unclear: Show nested quote +
3. If he does this in a muta battle he is fucked anyways. That close of a group is very bad in muta battle since every muta attack is guranteed to hit a muta. Even so, the scourge still work as they ignore "stacking."
It seems it's not very clear to me, how does that "bouncing" attack of the mutas work. I always thought, that it bounces to any random target within a certain range. Thus, if his muta clump is close enough to his newly built hatch/overlords/lings they should have the same probability to be hit, as the mutas. What am I missing?
Well my thoughts on this arent an exact science. I think the advantage is that when you DONT closely clump them there is a GREATER chance that the bounce attack will go to a non muta. Or that the natural seperation of the mutas will give better angles and less bounce attack. If they are close together there is a BETTER chance of getting the bounce attack within the cluster AND the opponent can spread a little more getting attacks at all angles which seems to be important in muta battles.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On January 29 2007 04:17 diehilde wrote:
nice tips! i have a question about zvz though: whenever i play 12pool 11hatch at nat (on luna for example) i lose. i just dont understand how to make 6 lings with ur initial 3 larva to survive potential rushes, tech to lair/spire as fast as possible and build enough defense at ur expo to survive ling attacks. should u maynard drones to ur expo in this situation? should u build like 1 sunk and many lings or more like many sunks and few lings? my sunkens tend to get torn apart since u cant build them in the mineral line or spots like that without risking him to run through into your main (on most maps). basically i never know if i should whore drones and sunk or build more lings and no drones and so on.... could u explain that strat to me? ^^
First of all 12 pool 11 hatch is very bad on luna. I think it is only viable on maps like perhaps nost or rh3. Its bad on luna because most other Z's are going a safer in base hatch or faster lair. This means they dictate everything (power ling = you make sunks or faster lair = you make spore). If you are going to expand on Luna or maps like Luna do a 12 hatch 11 pool and 12 gas build. This is timed better vs their 12pool builds or their own 12 hatch(in or out). If they 9 you are fucked. Thats why I 9 or 12 drone scout (forgot to mention, will add to the list). This way if you are lucky you can catch the bo before it hurts yeah. If you see lings leaving and you are like half way done with pool cancel the damn hatch go in base make a sunk or 2 and pray for an economic advantage.
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Canada9720 Posts
I don't play zerg, but I enjoyed reading both this thread and the othe on zerg mechanics. Cheers, keept it up 
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Very nice Geoff - get in touch with me soon! :D
~LoA
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
1. 1-1 than 1-2 is always better.
I think you mean 1-1 is better than 0-2 
Order goes armor->attack->armor->attack->devourersfuckeverythingupsoitdoesn'tmatteranymore
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nice, and overlord had some nice questions, here are a few of mine
during zvz when do you think the best time to start your carapace upgrade is, a little while after expo?
during zvz what information should you use to decide when you make spore colonys, by the number of muta he is producing? and how many should you make? I know its situational pertaining to how many drones/how late in the game.
when you are behind in zvz is it better to go for an allin approach and hope to catch them being greedy or should you try to catch up by launching guirella attacks and hoping to inflict enoough damage to come back?
in zvp, when the toss fe's and you decide to 3 hat lurker contain with the 3rd hat going to seperate expo, when is it the safest time to whore drones if they are going zeal/archon/temp?
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do zergs ever lay dual spire to upgrade faster? just wondering..
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mK no they dont, unless its bgh ;;
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awesome guide. thanks for the time incontrol.
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iNc, what about sending your replays just via yousendit?
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On January 29 2007 10:05 mK.)) wrote:
do zergs ever lay dual spire to upgrade faster? just wondering..
When dicking around with big lead vs. reaver/sair? 
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EPT
