EPTReaver AI (Does it need to be fixed?) - Page 4
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araav
Armenia1590 Posts
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Scorpion
United States1974 Posts
I can do that now. So, would a dumb reaver be such an imbalance now because, even with the retarded reaver, I can still end up killing half/all of the Terran's scvs at his expo and main? I mean, there's plenty of counters for a giant ass worm that appears in your base, but if it's a giant retarded ass worm, then it's even better. The scarab would get stuck behind the mineral line and end up chasing the fleeing workers only to have the scarab explode between some factories, then some tanks can shoot at it. Oh, but it goes into the shuttle, you say? Then the shuttle goes into an array of missile turrets and dies. But the reaver was dropped before the shuttle exploded? No matter, it can't run, might as well just kill it with a few tanks. I have a few suggestions at what might fix the AI, and these suggestions would not imbalance anything because we can do that with Reavers now. You can select a group of mutalisks with an overlord/larva/etc and have them stacked, should we fix that because the micro is so omg ownage? No, there's a counter for stacked mutas, making the zerg look like an idiot for stacking them. Well, it's the same thing with Smarter reavers. 1) If it has no scarabs, make it stop as to where it would have attacked if it did have a scarab. So, don't make it run up to something. Basically, make the reaver attack from its maximum range, not let it get up close. 2) Fix the memory problem. Have it stop and target its targeting and if you don't have any scarabs, still have the reaver fixed on that target. 3) The scarab should explode if it can't get to its target and still cause damage. So, if you've got an scv targeted, and let's say the scv went and built something, and you dropped the reaver and it targeted that particular scv and it got stuck on the minerals and exploded right where the scv's are mining and did NOTHING, then your drop has failed miserably since now he's probably running his scvs to his expansion. So, it should be able to damage things even when it has gotten stuck between supply depots, so at least something gets harmed. 4) I never knew about the reaver angle thing. I might have encountered it, but never really paid attention to it. Yes, fix this so annoying ass sunk/spore/lurk defensive positions can get seriously owned by the Protoss counter to that gayness: Reaver. | ||
Lisk
Latvia376 Posts
Reaver must be fixed. There are no reasons(non stupid) why not to fix it. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
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dream-_-
United States1857 Posts
On September 03 2006 04:43 FrozenArbiter wrote: The way the scarab moves does not need to be changed, that is fine, however.. The inability of reavers to attack sunkens in certain angles HAS TO BE CHANGED. This is the only thing that needs to be changed. Realy pisses me off at times. | ||
KwarK
United States43350 Posts
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pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
On September 04 2006 17:19 Kwark wrote: I don't use reavers anymore. If I lose I want it to be because of bad play on my part, not luck of the AI.I used to get reavers fast in PvT but it's rather pointless. T grabs scvs, sends them to mine at expo, scarab chases, scarab blows up killing nothing, reaver dies. Of course it worked every now and then, but the 825 minerals and 400 gas that goes into a reaver drop (not including a goon, if you use one of those too) can be wasted so easily. And you can't handle those losses early game. I want a unit that works reliably. god damn right you are | ||
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tfeign
United States2980 Posts
There are many many many ways to balance an overpowered unit. Making it randomnly misfire is NOT fuckin one of them. If starcraft was balanced based on factors of luck, this game would be absolute shit. Thank god they only did this to the reaver. | ||
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Dl33ter
Canada197 Posts
That would make TvP even worse then it is right now and probably just as bad as PvZ. I mean, you have to give a player some reward if he managed to pull his peons fast enough. Otherwise pretty much *all* reaver drops are gonna be successful. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
True, thats not the best way of balancing it, but until a balance change can be tuned at the same time as the scarab, then it's best not to tune it at all. For all we know, this was a design decision at Blizzard, and not a shitty balance fix. In the meantime, the only change is necessary is the reaver shooting at an angle thing. That is ridiculous. I can't believe the amount of people arguing for 'realism of the scarab' over balance of the fucking game. It's not surprsing only shitty players are arguing for it. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
(However, then people could just spam stop and have the scarab explode wherever they want :D) That's the only annoying thing, I don't mind people fooling the scarab AI with sexy micro or it not being able to reach an scv because the scv is running away and is blocked by others, but I do mind it when you fire a scarab from behind the minerals and it gets stuck at the edge, explodes close to other scvs, but does no damage. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
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gP.anDY-
Norway2 Posts
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
On September 05 2006 12:12 Teroru wrote: FA, i dont understand what u mean. :O If the scarab doesn't hit then after a while it just explodes and does nothing. FA wants it to make it do damage when it does that instead of exploding and doing nothing. You cna also press stop to make the scarab explode but do no damage at any time, and that means if they were to do what FA said, then you could make that explosion occur at any time and do damage by timing the stop command. | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
On September 03 2006 11:08 rpf289 wrote: Things that need to be fixed: 1.) Scarab explosion affects everything. I'm sick and tired of seeing a fucking explosive explode next to an SCV it wasn't heading for only to see it live with 100% HP. Siege Tank splash damage affects all units, buildings, and even friendly units. So yes, that means that if an enemy unti drags a scarab into a pack of my own dragoons, they should take damage. never in the world you would want that, that be auto-kill for reaver sair strategy. just draw a ling near the reavers and BOOM. | ||
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QuietIdiot
7004 Posts
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tec27
United States3702 Posts
On September 05 2006 05:15 tfeign wrote: Blizzard: Hey, the reaver is too strong. Instead of heightening cooldown/cost/building time, we'll just add a luck factor by making it randomnly misfire once every couple shots. There. Balance! There are many many many ways to balance an overpowered unit. Making it randomnly misfire is NOT fuckin one of them. If starcraft was balanced based on factors of luck, this game would be absolute shit. Thank god they only did this to the reaver. The randomness is not a balance change, imo, its a side-effect of their very early (read: beta) changes to scarab AI. In order to make it so scarabs did not explode the minute they ran into an obstacle, they added a pathing algorithm to them. Unfortunately, because of their relatively high speed, they tend to perform "pacing" due to constant re-trying of paths in order to find an opening (regular units do this too, they just don't have to explode at any point, and can be redirected, so its not a big deal). The fact that this change in AI happens to help "balance" the situation meant that Blizzard didn't see a reason in making further changes to the reaver (and I assume that they had a very hard time removing the "pacing" behavior, due to the fact that its a very major part of their pathing algorithm). | ||
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Phantom
Canada2151 Posts
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Sr18
Netherlands1141 Posts
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