! [Q] ZvT Bunker rush agony - Page 2

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GunSlinger

614 Posts

August 29 2006 03:50 GMT

#21

On August 29 2006 11:16 Day[9] wrote:

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hell i'll say it

if you have 92 APM then you suck!

:D

true, it might mean your skill level is lower, but insulting someone's intelligence becuase of his/her APM is just plain ignorant. nice post btw Day, even though i like it when terran tries to bunker rush me becuase i find it easy to counter, i found your post quite informative.

rabies

45 Posts

August 29 2006 04:02 GMT

#22

just go 11 pool and you are immune against all this fucking cheese

red.venom

United States4651 Posts

August 29 2006 04:36 GMT

#23

On August 29 2006 08:51 YoiChiBow wrote:
if they take that many scvs... they are guna have a weak eco hardcore.
just cancel the hatch and get pool asap and inhatch.

ur eco will be alot stronger than his

Thats not really true. The timing just simply doesnt favor the Z who will essentially be stuck in their base for a bit because of the bunker with 4 marines sitting at their choke... Then your strategies are limited and the T will simply bunker the fuck up and go one base vs you and push once he gets to vessel and there is almost no way you can catch up to his econ without a ton of risk/greed or something lucky like having him exit his base while you run a lurker in, or pulling a slow lurker drop.

red.venom

United States4651 Posts

August 29 2006 04:41 GMT

#24

On August 29 2006 12:31 Kacas wrote:
and what i can do if my pc lags and i always start mining 2secondslater?

would be my fault for not holding a bunker rush...or its impossible to stop it?
=/

Haha well you just learn to always be 2 seconds behind I guess. It shouldnt be impossible to stop but its not benefitting you. Perhaps stop playing with your jacked shit and get a job to save up for a new computer; [ zz

Or ask your opponent to wait 2 seconds before mining at start; [

GrandInquisitor

New York City13113 Posts

August 29 2006 08:10 GMT

#25

On August 29 2006 11:16 Day[9] wrote:

Show nested quote +

hell i'll say it

if you have 92 APM then you suck!

:D

Drowsy

United States4876 Posts

August 29 2006 09:55 GMT

#26

I'm not going to watch this replay, but when are you drone scouting? If you 9 scout, it is almost always better to just cancel hatch and make a pool instead if you find out he's bunkering. The thing that helped me the most with bunker rushes was drone scouting later, the later you scout, the earlier your pool is finished and you can get out lings faster. Also, If his scout arrives early, like just after you built hatch, hotkey up 6-7 drones and transfer them as soon as you see him building the bunker. Rallying your 2nd overlord to your nat is also a good idea, because a lot of the time he can build it out of site range and in firing range and you won't see it until his scv building the bunker glides into site range while it's building, and he gets a few free seconds on his bunker. If he's bringing 5+ scvs, then you need to bring more drones, like all but three or four. Also, if it's a map with a smallish nat exit like rh3 or gaia, then bringing these drones to the choke can slow and impede the flow of marines to the bunker, giving you a bit more time, and it also puts you in a perfect position to flank with drones+lings. The key to stopping it, I think, is not losing too many drones to his first 1-2 marines and 3-7 scvs. As long as you can keep those up, you can usually stop it by either using your drones to help lings kill the bunker, or by having enough money to build the lings to kill it before it kills your hat. You may also consider simply retreating your drones to your main after you've lost 1-2 or after the bunker is complete rather than putting them at a natural choke.

[GiTM]-Ace

United States4935 Posts

August 29 2006 11:19 GMT

#27

day that 3rd rep was pretty funny

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

August 29 2006 14:07 GMT

#28

seems fairly well covered, i will just add my 2 cents. If they bring 7 scv just get in your head this is basially an all in move, and for you to survive your going to have to treat it as such. I bring all my drones except 3-4 as a general rule. I make it A priority that i have to toss down AT LEAST 1 sunk and make 6-8 lings in response. I prefer stacked drones vs the rines, i like to find a visible mineral patch that is below the rine force and stack to them, than unravel and hit them as i cross over them. From there you micro, hit the rines, and focus some on the producing SCV as you can.

Aside from this i would advise what has been said i believe, on maps like RH3 bunker rushes are very popular, if you know your opponent to be that type of a player a 12pool opening is much safer, you will have 6 lings or so by the time the bunk is being tossed down, a MUCH better counter. On distanced maps like Azalea, Luna or R-Point to a certain extent you are resolved to using mass drones and sunk/ling.

Day[9]

United States7366 Posts

August 29 2006 15:42 GMT

#29

On August 29 2006 12:08 zulu_nation8 wrote:

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EXACTLY, i hold the same view in zvp too, if you can 12 hatch zvt on a map, you should 12 hatch zvp too, yes, that includes luna 11, gaia close positions. On r-point 1 zvt, i 2 hatch and build gas at nat extractor. More important question is, do 8 drones or 9 drones kill a marine with one shot? Also, you don't have to 9 drone scout, 12 is fine, if terran 8 raxes you most likely will see one of many signs with your ovie or drone scout before it's too late, such as 2 scvs scouting, marine and scv coming out, etc.

not true

good zealot rushes are much harder to stop than bunker rushes. Bunker rushes are fragile due to the low HP of marines. I can never hold zealot rushes by good players in close positions w/ 12 hatching, esp if they bring probes : [!

13Julia

Canada231 Posts

August 29 2006 16:00 GMT

#30

In 12pool you get lings in general at the bunker a second after it finishes and when 2-3 rines get in... You have not as much drones as in 12h/11p and still need to defend with drones if he is setting up a fast bunker, you can lose a lot of games to ppl, that just make bunkers and dont care for your build, and I tell ya, there are some ppl that even seeing a fast pool dont care, usually they are not good players, but they sure set up those bunkers good enough, they realy are determined in executing those replay strats... :>
I generally prefer lately 9ov 9pool drones up to 11, 11 hatch, lings and so on, if he really cares 12 pool will die :p

skyglow1

New Zealand3962 Posts

August 29 2006 16:30 GMT

#31

Do a july and counter his main with drones and lings XD

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

August 29 2006 16:56 GMT

#32

On August 30 2006 00:42 Day[9] wrote:

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i think it's only impossible if they micro their probes well and stop you from making sunkens, i think if you make 3 sunkens, cancel first one, etc, and micro your lings well it's possible to always it. 2 gate + 4 probe is about as difficult to stop as 8 rax + 5 scvs i think

[GiTM]-Ace

United States4935 Posts

August 29 2006 17:09 GMT

#33

most good p's micro there probes well tho

and no way 4 probe + 2 gate is alot harder imo lsots wont die to drones

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

August 29 2006 17:55 GMT

#34

On August 29 2006 12:16 Rayzorblade wrote:
Thanks for the info, Day[9]. I'm a mediocre player (first season playing PGT, am C- now) & I thought I knew how to stop bunker rushes (until being mad cheesed on PGT, lol). That helped a lot. Thanks!

:O sif

rick the dangerous

Turkey90 Posts

August 29 2006 20:19 GMT

#35

hmm actually there is rep which is boxer vs yellow on blade storm which is one of my favorites... though it is not a bunker rush rather an scv rush but i think yellow might give u some ideas how to deal with mass scv and a couple of rines...

off topic but this is the way terran should play against zerg... how i am going to miss boxer... anyway lets not make this another lamentation to boxer thread

comabreaded

United States2166 Posts

August 30 2006 00:05 GMT

#36

i love bunker rushing. thanks day for the insight!

ahk-gosu

Korea (South)2099 Posts

August 30 2006 01:20 GMT

#37

On August 30 2006 01:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:

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it kinda depends. 3 sunken is a lot of money that early. 150 for drones and 225 for the creeps.
id say 2 sunkens is more realistic. the way i beat zealot rushes are to keep your ling count high. just keep pumping zerglings for a while. try to get 1 sunken up.

NEVER EVER LET THEM BLOCK YOUR RAMP. this is annoying as fuck and cuts your ling reinforcements by half. you might be fucked if this happens. if the zealots are at your hatchery it is likely that he isnt teching and is just making pylongs and zealots. so keep making zerglings. dont tech until you know hes turtling back at his base.