EPTIncreasing APM/EAPM - Page 2
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Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
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Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
On April 29 2013 21:12 Sayle wrote: Listen to K-pop while you play. Also, eat kimchi. Forgot Pocari Sweat | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On April 29 2013 21:12 Sayle wrote: Listen to K-pop while you play. Also, eat kimchi. wrong, god says that he needs to eat meat at least once a day | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On April 30 2013 05:29 rauk wrote: wrong, god says that he needs to eat meat at least once a day There is meat in kimchi Also, which god? + Show Spoiler + You had better be talking about Flash | ||
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dirtydurb82
United States178 Posts
Does a great job of explaining this stuff. | ||
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Eskiya23
Netherlands105 Posts
Your natural being attacked? Screen hotkey natural, hold down CTRL, click a worker, screen hotkey main, click on minerals. You could also select the mineralline a few times, scroll your mouse to the edge of the screen to your main, and click on the minerals, but that would result in slow and unclean mechanics. You might have 300 apm doing it, but its wrong mechanically. Some stragegies require more apm and attention allocation to different areas. My general advise in terms of APM training should be; Use less actions to do one thing, so you can do more things with the same APM. | ||
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Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
On May 03 2013 00:41 Eskiya23 wrote: Some stragegies require more apm and attention allocation to different areas. My general advise in terms of APM training should be; Use less actions to do one thing, so you can do more things with the same APM. Day9's advice is actually the complete opposite. He says you should deliberately try to use more APM even if you're not accomplishing anything with it, then you'll slowly find more useful things to do with the increased APM. | ||
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greenelve
Germany1392 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:36 Sayle wrote: Day9's advice is actually the complete opposite. He says you should deliberately try to use more APM even if you're not accomplishing anything with it, then you'll slowly find more useful things to do with the increased APM. Thats like a thing korean progamer do: spam through all army hotkeys all the time with the positive effect of useles apm: you seen when one unit dies, even there is no alert, which means dt is killing your lings | ||
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Eskiya23
Netherlands105 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:36 Sayle wrote: Day9's advice is actually the complete opposite. He says you should deliberately try to use more APM even if you're not accomplishing anything with it, then you'll slowly find more useful things to do with the increased APM. Hi sayle ! Really loved your casting of TSL. Deliberately using more APM for one action doesnt make it faster in any way. Spamming move-command on a dropship is lots of APM for a singular action, while you should move-command once and check back a few times for any muta (thus allocating your apm to do other stuff), and at the time of your drop arriving for turrets etc. I guess what he meant was ''spam till you get 260 apm, then allocate them properly''. My statement of ''Use less actions to do one thing, so you can do more things with the same APM.'' refers to the cleanup afterwards, when you realise as a player that you DO have the apm, but not the eapm. The idea is to do more eAPM (meaningfull actions ingame) instead of high APM (spamclicking, excessive selecting without giving a follow-up command etc) as you can see in BWrep stats. | ||
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likeadiamond
Russian Federation7 Posts
Eapm for me is fast desigion making. So all game is fast thinking, not spamming. If u can make good desigins u will win. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On May 03 2013 06:39 likeadiamond wrote: u don't need fast apm at all, u need fast eapm. Eapm for me is fast desigion making. So all game is fast thinking, not spamming. If u can make good desigins u will win. so hard to raise eapm. my apm rose to 300 per game (so +50 increase) but my eapm only rose +10........fml. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:50 Eskiya23 wrote: Hi sayle ! Really loved your casting of TSL. Deliberately using more APM for one action doesnt make it faster in any way. Spamming move-command on a dropship is lots of APM for a singular action, while you should move-command once and check back a few times for any muta (thus allocating your apm to do other stuff), and at the time of your drop arriving for turrets etc. I guess what he meant was ''spam till you get 260 apm, then allocate them properly''. My statement of ''Use less actions to do one thing, so you can do more things with the same APM.'' refers to the cleanup afterwards, when you realise as a player that you DO have the apm, but not the eapm. The idea is to do more eAPM (meaningfull actions ingame) instead of high APM (spamclicking, excessive selecting without giving a follow-up command etc) as you can see in BWrep stats. Sorry but i have to disagree completely. I can see where your coming from but your missing a few pieces. EAPM vs APM, when you are trying to raise your eapm it is verry important to have a large buffer on your apm. ofc it can be done without. but it just takes a fuck ton of extra time to get the same eapm. Eapm is in the mind. it is not in the hand speed. well ofc to a certain degree, but for the most part the thing that makes you have a high eapm is multitasking. making depos making probes and sending them to the minerals. which can be easily done with a low eapm of 80 orso. but when you get to the later stages of the game. it is much easier to start doing 3/4 extra things like drops, counter attacks ect when you already have the apm simpely becouse your hands are already in motion. this is a huge deal when you have to do 6 diffrent things at onces. like macro, move army in the center, transfer workers, making extra production/static defence, checking upgrades, reposistion your unhotkeyed army and harras. thats a big list of what you have to do at onces. its alot easier when you have hands already in motion to do all these things to if you don't. also the fact that your hands are having nothing will natrualy lead to searching for more stuff to do. the best example would be jaedong or flash, they both have around 400 apm, but 200-250 eapm. the reason why they can get that high of an eapm is becouse of the incredable high apm. yea maby you will only get 10-30 eapm extra for each 80 apm you get after 200+ orsomething. but when you keep staking it it will make a HUGE diffrence. | ||
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likeadiamond
Russian Federation7 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:02 Golgotha wrote: so hard to raise eapm. my apm rose to 300 per game (so +50 increase) but my eapm only rose +10........fml. just try to think when u play. Untill all game u have a choose what to do - like push or not push, build or not build and u must do this fast. Good players can do this, bad players not. U may have 300 apm and 10 good desigions in the game, pro have same 300 apm. but he has much more good desigions then u. Oh, i forget to say about my favorite example of "Good desigions" - and he name is Movie - he had about 210 - 250 apm - and he was in the final of osl. Of corse all pro players has the same lvl of the good desigions making, so just choose what u do. Don't be stupid and u will win i think. | ||
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numLoCK
Canada1416 Posts
But it really depends on you as a player and where you're at currently. I don't think you should look at it like APM is a requirement to do certain things. Rather, you practice being able to do certain things and APM will naturally get higher. Focus on some area you are lacking and really challenge yourself. I liked muta builds, like I said, to force me to constantly micro while doing my build. I also liked sair/reaver or other multiple small engagement builds to train multitasking. Stray away from what you're comfortable doing to win and play a strategy that requires higher APM. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:54 rauk wrote: Secret to raising eapmis to just 1a2a3a your army as much as possible. Doesn't matter what else you're doing as long as you keep on going 1a2a3a to random places your eapm goes I just tried this and my eapm rose by another 10. Wow, thank you. This was my highest ever eapm! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NjA5e2I.png) | ||
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Eskiya23
Netherlands105 Posts
On May 03 2013 20:36 sabas123 wrote: Sorry but i have to disagree completely. I can see where your coming from but your missing a few pieces. EAPM vs APM, when you are trying to raise your eapm it is verry important to have a large buffer on your apm. ofc it can be done without. but it just takes a fuck ton of extra time to get the same eapm. Eapm is in the mind. it is not in the hand speed. well ofc to a certain degree, but for the most part the thing that makes you have a high eapm is multitasking. making depos making probes and sending them to the minerals. which can be easily done with a low eapm of 80 orso. but when you get to the later stages of the game. it is much easier to start doing 3/4 extra things like drops, counter attacks ect when you already have the apm simpely becouse your hands are already in motion. this is a huge deal when you have to do 6 diffrent things at onces. like macro, move army in the center, transfer workers, making extra production/static defence, checking upgrades, reposistion your unhotkeyed army and harras. thats a big list of what you have to do at onces. its alot easier when you have hands already in motion to do all these things to if you don't. also the fact that your hands are having nothing will natrualy lead to searching for more stuff to do. the best example would be jaedong or flash, they both have around 400 apm, but 200-250 eapm. the reason why they can get that high of an eapm is becouse of the incredable high apm. yea maby you will only get 10-30 eapm extra for each 80 apm you get after 200+ orsomething. but when you keep staking it it will make a HUGE diffrence. You are basically echoing me. Yes, you do need high apm to do 6 things (''like macro, move army in the center, transfer workers, making extra production/static defence, checking upgrades, reposistion your unhotkeyed army and harras''). The difference between a regular ladder-Terran and Flash is what puts an end to this apm vs eapm discussion. Flash has 400 something apm, and analysis of his apm allocation showed that 60 of that apm was in ''macro''. Normal Terrans spam apm, they do meaningless actions, redundant actions and just inefficient actions. Flash on the other hand, puts the macro on autopilot, so he can allocate apm in unit control, multitask, drops, marine control and mine control. Clean and mechanically sound APM allocation is what I stand for. Surely, as your apm goes up your eapm goes up too, but in diminishing returns. I think there is a fine line between apm and eapm, to me it has always been the ratio of what you want to do, and how many actions you put in to make it happen (efficiency). | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1660 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:36 Sayle wrote: Day9's advice is actually the complete opposite. He says you should deliberately try to use more APM even if you're not accomplishing anything with it, then you'll slowly find more useful things to do with the increased APM. its what i did, it works, just spam doing nothing, sooner or later you'll find a way to make it useful. | ||
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
just strive to play clean. use all the options you have. i bet there are very few foreign players who regularly use all 10 ctrl groups and the 3 locations they have at their disposal. breaking inefficient habits and establishing efficient ones is the most important thing once you have basic understanding of build orders. i can have sick eapm on a good day and i am basically in a state of constant inactivity. i regularly come back after not playing a single bw game for months and i'm in okay shape after 3 games in each matchup. i think muscle memory and efficient, consciously constructed gameplay habits are the key here, not some arbitrary increase in meaningless numbers. higher eapm should be a side-effect of improvement, not a goal in itself. plus for example you can play flawless really high level macro pvt with 150 eapm, whereas you can enjoy getting your ass handed to you by C- zergs trying to go late game bio tvz with that same number. ideal apm is just way too situational, and fundamentally flawed as a general indicator. (i think) | ||
Falling
Canada11379 Posts
just strive to play clean. use all the options you have. i bet there are very few foreign players who regularly use all 10 ctrl groups and the 3 locations they have at their disposal This was actually a suprising discovery for me when reffing TLS games and then afterwards I ran them through bwcharts to look at their hotkeys. Lots of players vastly superior to me use no more than 5-6 of their control groups whereas I have always been trying to incorporate in all 10 as I've slowly been getting faster. | ||
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