EPTbut how can u get 200 eapm? just doing stupid shit? I dont think so ..... Maybe the skill level has increased so much on iccup that nowadays ppl are super good @ C. I just want to understand it
reps please ...
Increasing APM/EAPM - Page 5
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tenacity
1587 Posts
but how can u get 200 eapm? just doing stupid shit? I dont think so ..... Maybe the skill level has increased so much on iccup that nowadays ppl are super good @ C. I just want to understand it reps please ... | ||
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
you get 200 eapm low redundancy by playing really cleanly and precisely, with decent multitask. | ||
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tenacity
1587 Posts
On June 01 2013 22:19 skzlime wrote: clarification: Bizzy is not C level, he just plays so little that he can't rank up beyond C in 3 months. you get 200 eapm low redundancy by playing really cleanly and precisely, with decent multitask. my question was rather rhetorical. im tired of ppl saying "apm/eapm" doesn't mean anything. it may be true in some cases but i think it (eapm in particular) is a good indicator nevertheless. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6791 Posts
On June 01 2013 22:19 skzlime wrote: clarification: Bizzy is not C level, he just plays so little that he can't rank up beyond C in 3 months. you get 200 eapm low redundancy by playing really cleanly and precisely, with decent multitask. in the case u no trolling. http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/reps)izzy.html from russia a school boy that is very very fast. but not really good ;; | ||
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
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tenacity
1587 Posts
On June 02 2013 04:07 skzlime wrote: you can only see it in actual gameplay. exactly. not sure whether that Bakuryu guy is trolling or not though | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
in my opinion apm cannot be used as a general indicator of skill, but a matchup specific one at best. if one wants to use it to evaluate skill at all cost, one must take into account the actual game, since it is possible to have the same X apm while for example doing a BBS and while macroing happily on 8 raxes and managing 5 ctrl groups of units out on the map. obviously in one of these cases the player in question will either have an excess of apm, which accomplishes nothing other than "establishing/keeping the pace for later", or a lack of it to have good execution depending on the value of X, since the two scenarios greatly differ in difficulty. moving on, we agree that even eapm can be faked with certain actions. it might not be done consciously, but that doesn't matter in this case. what this means is that two players with the exact same eapm in the same matchup with the same positions, build orders and decision making against the same opponent might play differently. how can such an indicator have any accuracy? so again, we must see the actual game to be sure. to give a really clear example, when i play an agressive style of tvp i have the same eapm as Fantasy. does that even mean anything? quite obviously, the answer is LOL the game is just too complex for a single shaky indicator that doesn't even mean anything in itself to give ANY sort of perspective on a player's skill. do really good players generally have high apm/eapm? mostly yes. is anyone with high apm/eapm good? fuck no. i think striving for improvement through forcibly increasing apm is misguided, because i have done it before, and it's not how i got "good". | ||
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tenacity
1587 Posts
On June 02 2013 18:16 skzlime wrote: in short, yes. there really is no more to be said. i really don't understand what you are asking Baku (i don't mean the question itself), since i thought my very first post in this thread already answered this. i believe this debate and so the following post to be utterly meaningless, but i'll try to elaborate with examples. in my opinion apm cannot be used as a general indicator of skill, but a matchup specific one at best. if one wants to use it to evaluate skill at all cost, one must take into account the actual game, since it is possible to have the same X apm while for example doing a BBS and while macroing happily on 8 raxes and managing 5 ctrl groups of units out on the map. obviously in one of these cases the player in question will either have an excess of apm, which accomplishes nothing other than "establishing/keeping the pace for later", or a lack of it to have good execution depending on the value of X, since the two scenarios greatly differ in difficulty. moving on, we agree that even eapm can be faked with certain actions. it might not be done consciously, but that doesn't matter in this case. what this means is that two players with the exact same eapm in the same matchup with the same positions, build orders and decision making against the same opponent might play differently. how can such an indicator have any accuracy? so again, we must see the actual game to be sure. to give a really clear example, when i play an agressive style of tvp i have the same eapm as Fantasy. does that even mean anything? quite obviously, the answer is LOL the game is just too complex for a single shaky indicator that doesn't even mean anything in itself to give ANY sort of perspective on a player's skill. do really good players generally have high apm/eapm? mostly yes. is anyone with high apm/eapm good? fuck no. i think striving for improvement through forcibly increasing apm is misguided, because i have done it before, and it's not how i got "good". beautiful post, thanks! | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
i agree with everything u said. im not sure if we talk past each other, but my question is still unsolved. "how can u see apm in the gameplay?" i may be nitpicking, but for me, when im playing vs somebody, i normally cant see apm in his gameplay. the thing i see is the "minimum actions required to do what i see him doing and how effective they are", while for me, apm means the "maximum actions possible to make on average (since its actions per minute)" so more or less i can see the minimum of what he is doing, but his actual apm could be anything above that. yeah that still sound like im seeing eapm. but eapm is still an average thing, and eapm also doesnt tell me anything about the effectiveness of the actions in the actual game. or to word it differently, u dont see the amount of input he is doing, u see the result of those inputs. (unless u watch a fpvod[or best case scenario when u sit next to him and see him press buttons] then u can also see apm) im sry if that sounds stupid, but i wanted to explain how i see it. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6791 Posts
On June 03 2013 02:20 Bakuryu wrote: i like how u can read my mind and write exactly that what i wanted to write after u gave me a response to my question.^^ i agree with everything u said. im not sure if we talk past each other, but my question is still unsolved. "how can u see apm in the gameplay?" i may be nitpicking, but for me, when im playing vs somebody, i normally cant see apm in his gameplay. the thing i see is the "minimum actions required to do what i see him doing and how effective they are", while for me, apm means the "maximum actions possible to make on average (since its actions per minute)" so more or less i can see the minimum of what he is doing, but his actual apm could be anything above that. yeah that still sound like im seeing eapm. but eapm is still an average thing, and eapm also doesnt tell me anything about the effectiveness of the actions in the actual game. or to word it differently, u dont see the amount of input he is doing, u see the result of those inputs. (unless u watch a fpvod[or best case scenario when u sit next to him and see him press buttons] then u can also see apm) im sry if that sounds stupid, but i wanted to explain how i see it. i think best example is Marwin and cosy. In marwin play is really hard to match multitask with him. he is everywhere.he forcé u to not only be fast but also check all ur places at once.and for example cosy. 600 apm guy 200 eapm.people can think well ye this guy epic but not.he just move muta here and there and u can see how he not only cant Split mutas but miss everything in the map.im not sure if this answer ur question ;; | ||
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
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Kyuhyuck
Korea (South)40 Posts
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