hm, i see. i was successful when i did 12 hatch to nat, 11 pool, 14 gas and pumped a few more speedlings instead of drones to fight off the initial marines.

Live2Win

United States6657 Posts

October 31 2005 11:30 GMT

#82

I see 2 or 3 viable strats for Forte. But I'm no where near Control's level so really, it's more like Theory craft.... so I need some gosu's advice.

The first is one that was shown by JulyZerg vs GoodFriend. He lost, but because he made a HUGE mistake when he ran like 24 mutalisks across a blob of mnm and lost most of them without killing a single marine due to miss-click. Otherwise he would have won the game.

Anyways, the strat (altered a little by me) is open with 9 pool. The scouting drone that leaves to find his base, as soon as you're done using it instead of bringing it back home you send it to another starting base. With your early lings try to harrass him or keep him in his base. Try to save your lings though. Expo to another starting position, and keep up lings to have him contained until he gets medic/bats.

By the time he comes out, you should have the hatch up, and he shouldn't know about it right away anyways. (even if he does, it's ok) The trick is that you can easily defend both bases with 2-3 sunkens each. Because it's above ramp, the ramp's small and the ramp's REALLY close by. So then you tech to either muta or lurks, try to contain as u get another expo and play normal basically.

Another opening is 12 pool or 9 pool, get 200 gas but use it on speed+burrow. The trick is that Forte has medium-small opening that is made out of minerals. While it may be good for Terran to wall and defend, you can also use it to your advantage. If you 9 pooled, and sometimes 12 pool will work too, he won't try to wall there. Even if he does, you can mine the small mineral with your drone. (is that 8 or 16? can't remember. Gas trick will fix it anyways if it's 16)

Anyways the point is that with your early speed+burrow, you can keep him in his base again. Then when he moves out, he'll have no choice but to cross that small opening. And that's where you have your lings burrowed. So basically, the trick is to be able to expo without early harrassment. And also limiting the T's build. (9 pool will eliminate FE and fast tanks usually).

Well anyways, see if that helps out at all. The risky thing about the burrow thing is that if the burrow attack fails, your screwed. >.<

Also, you could try adding the two strats together. Burrow lings+expo to another main. So even if ur lings fail you can still defend easy? (But then you'll be REALLY low on drones....)

FakeSteve[TPR]

Valhalla18444 Posts

October 31 2005 17:40 GMT

#83

ARGH ITS HARD

thank you guys for this thread. I've had success with 12pool to hatch at expo, but it relies on good ling control and fast lurker

sdpgposd

United Kingdom1464 Posts

October 31 2005 17:48 GMT

#84

12 hatch, ling burrow then ling speed boost.

16 hatch @ nat

FakeSteve[TPR]

Valhalla18444 Posts

October 31 2005 17:51 GMT

#85

i dont find burrow to be too useful since terrans i play with all know to make several firebats early

ToT)MidiaN(

England2183 Posts

October 31 2005 18:54 GMT

#86

9 drone scout -> steal his gas -> no more fast tank worries.
If you went the wrong way and were unable to steal his gas, but you have some idea of how soon he made it, then you can play in several ways. For example if you believe he made his refinery before 2nd depot then he is going either fast academy or fast tank, if it's fast academy just power and use sunkens to block the attack. If it's fast tank, you were unable to steal his gas and your tech is rather late (maybe you made gas on 18) then your best hope may just be to mass lings, keep them hidden and flank his tank push.(don't make them TOO early, you will sacrifice too much eco and tech speed and you don't want to sacrifice these things to make lings. You can make plenty of lings without sacrificing these things if you just make them a little later)
I'd still be going 12 hatch at choke then 3rd hatch at expansion in these situations unless my drone scout came across an 8 rax in which case I would do 12 pool into 3 hatch. And I would always steal gas when possible.

ToT)MidiaN(

England2183 Posts

October 31 2005 18:56 GMT

#87

BiFrost, well here I like to play with 2 hatch lurker lings with 2nd hatch at gas expansion, you need to practice the build a lot in order to find out when you have to make lings, drones, sunkens, where to place them, how soon you can take your gas/make lair/lurker tech etc. It's not easy to play this way but I think it's good if you can get away with it.
The other alternative is a 3 hatch build with expansion to mineral only and 3rd hatch at the main choke, then going lurker ling and taking gas natural after.

Return

Ivory Coast856 Posts

October 31 2005 22:15 GMT

#88

ive only played this map once it was vs a 2 rax => fast tank into 3 rax contantly pumping

i made 8 pool after the initial 6 lings i made drones and 12 hatch at choke 15 hatch expand 16 gas
make speedlings and try to avoid him from going out to fast, get burrow. now mass lings and 3 sunks while getting second gas and lair

burrow like 12 lings where he will be with the tankfirebatmarine/medic army.

have 12 behind him and 12 in your base and 12 under him when u attack you unburrow and attack from all sides.

Somehow i won that battle he had like ~4 firebats 2 medics and 12 marines. Even if u just kill the tank its godo because it gives u time to mass up lair units, then normally jsut try anything to kill it.

then play it like normal zvt ~_~;

FakeSteve[TPR]

Valhalla18444 Posts

November 01 2005 07:01 GMT

#89

On November 01 2005 03:56 iD.MidiaN wrote:
BiFrost, well here I like to play with 2 hatch lurker lings with 2nd hatch at gas expansion, you need to practice the build a lot in order to find out when you have to make lings, drones, sunkens, where to place them, how soon you can take your gas/make lair/lurker tech etc. It's not easy to play this way but I think it's good if you can get away with it.
The other alternative is a 3 hatch build with expansion to mineral only and 3rd hatch at the main choke, then going lurker ling and taking gas natural after.

aw fuck thats my build i thought I was being original

PhilGood2DaY

Germany7424 Posts

November 01 2005 07:57 GMT

#90

I find PvZ on forte pretty fair.. dunno y, though..

[GiTM]-Ace

United States4935 Posts

November 02 2005 02:52 GMT

#91

well i finally started playing this and well i just loss like 5-6 games in a row to that tank rush :/ im having worse luck.... i 12 hatch they 8 rax. i 12 pool they are raxing late..the only game i won on here is when i took the t's gas. thats like ur only hope on this dam map lol. ive 9 pooled did damage and still loss to fast tanks... another game i take midians suggestion and mass lings since i didnt get a chance to steal his gas... then he comes with like5 bats and rape me. i hope next week is better. ill continue to keep trying tho but dam i hate losing =[

ToT)MidiaN(

England2183 Posts

November 02 2005 06:25 GMT

#92

Mass lings is something I never do to be honest, I did say you "may need to, if you gassed at 18" or something to that effect. I'm not suggesting that it's ideal to do that, because it certainly isn't, but in some situations it might be your only hope for example if your gas was delayed and you suspect fast tank. I think you need to start making more assumptions in this map, i.e. if you don't manage to steal their gas, after your 3rd hatch you should make gas on like 16 supply, thus getting your tech up that bit earlier than if you gassed at 18. It is certainly possible to beat fast tank with 3 hatch if you gas at 16, you just need to make quite a lot of sunkens to buy time and have good mutalisk control. But overall yea it's a difficult map to play, you just have to keep playing the same way and tweak a few things, eventually you'll get used to exactly when you have to place sunkens, when to take gas etc, and hopefully be able to stop such builds in the future.