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On August 17 2005 23:30 rpf289 wrote:
17 Core.
8 pylon (scout)
10 gate
12 gas
13 zealot
16 pylon
17 (some prefer 18) core
18 (19 if you did 18 core) zealot or gate (depending on the matchup and positions)
any good z player will most likely beat this with speedlings....HARD...simple drone drill and gg. It is a very good idea to add another gate if there is a chance he is going speed lings and is z.
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man, i like my build on LT... any comments? it's worked so far for me.
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Meh.
Just one gate and scout after your first pylon. If it's zerg, you'll find them in time to figure out whether you need to drop down another pylon and make more lots or if it's alright to fast tech. The small disadvantage you might have in not being able to pressure a fast expanding zerg is nothing compared to how much it would suck to be going 9/10 zealots vs a terran... =p
Having that one early lot is kinda nice vs. Terran too since you eliminate his ability to scout you if he's not your immediate neighbor (you know what I mean - you don't have to wait for a goon and you can block your ramp early).
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i dont think finding urself having 2gate opened vs terran is at all that bad if theyre not too far away. you can even it up putting great pressure on their wall with 2-3 zeals and goon(s). he'll have to make more rines to defend and pull scvs off mining to repair wall. id much rather be in a situation where i went 2gate vs close random terran than 1gate vs close random zerg. that way its u who has all the initiative with aggression, not the other guy. as it is zerg has way too uneven a slice of initiative pie in pvz, don't go 1gate and make that worse;p
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On August 18 2005 11:08 Echo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2005 23:30 rpf289 wrote:
17 Core.
8 pylon (scout)
10 gate
12 gas
13 zealot
16 pylon
17 (some prefer 18) core
18 (19 if you did 18 core) zealot or gate (depending on the matchup and positions) any good z player will most likely beat this with speedlings....HARD...simple drone drill and gg. It is a very good idea to add another gate if there is a chance he is going speed lings and is z. If I find that my opponent is Terran, I will go 17 core, or just cancel the zealot and throw down my core a little late. I will go 17 or 20 core if my opponent is Protoss, and if my opponent is Zerg, I will 20 core. I might have problems with speedlings, as I have in the past, but I also might not. It's a risk I'm willing to take. ^_^
On August 19 2005 09:13 VdP]EpiphaNy wrote:
i dont think finding urself having 2gate opened vs terran is at all that bad if theyre not too far away. you can even it up putting great pressure on their wall with 2-3 zeals and goon(s). he'll have to make more rines to defend and pull scvs off mining to repair wall. id much rather be in a situation where i went 2gate vs close random terran than 1gate vs close random zerg. that way its u who has all the initiative with aggression, not the other guy. as it is zerg has way too uneven a slice of initiative pie in pvz, don't go 1gate and make that worse;p If you start at 12 or 3, just scout early so that if you need to, you can 9/10. If It was PvR, and I was at 3, early scout at 7 to 12, and then 9 or 10 gate depending on what you find.
Edit: Echo, I hereby challenge you to a friendly game of Starcraft. ^_^;; Op Cal@USWest is where I usually am (same ID). :D
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Ideally, you open 1gate tech versus Terran. Ideally, you'd open 2gate zeals versus Zerg, but versus Protoss, you can do either. Basically, you either should do one of a few things.
1.) Scout early. Scout at 7 supply as it won't hurt economy too much, and it will still get you to your opponent a few seconds faster. Watch your minimap so that if you pass your opponent's scout, you'll know that much sooner.
2.) Open 2gate zealots regardless of your opponent being random. I don't mean continue with your 2gate build if you find your opponent as Terran in time, but considering you can play 2/3 of your matchups using a 2gate build, it can work.
3.) Open 1gate tech. All matchups can be played using a tech build. PvT is primarily tech, whereas PvP can be played with one gate, and the same goes for PvZ.
Just 17 core if you find your opponent as Terran, unless you find them very quickly, in which case you can probably cancel your zealot and slap down a core and not lose much time. I wouldn't cancel my zealot if it was more tan about 25% completed, however.
If your opponent is Zerg, 20 core, and go sair if they went 2 hatch, or tech to temp. If you go 1gate temp, forge when your archives is half done, put 2 cannons in your choke, expo, add 2gates and get leg speed. Not exactly fail-proof, but it isn't exactly a bad build, either.
If your opponent is Protoss, it can get a little tricky, I guess. I just 17 core if they 14 core, as if go they go 14 core zealot, 17 core beats that. :D If you see that they didn't stop probes (which they have to, or else they can't get a core, zealot, and a pylon down in time to not stop production from their gate) you can send your initial zealot and maybe kill a few probes. Don't do this unless you're confident in your micro and multitasking skills. If you don't get at least two probe kills, your opponent will be ahead.
I'd like to note that I'm not an icnredibly good player, but I'm very confident in my openings. I don't see anything wrong with what I wrote, so I hope there's no major errors in there. I'm sure EchoOfRain will say differently. ^_^;;
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Norway28929 Posts
2gate
1gate leaves you dead vs random zerg on temple, 2gate is doable vs terran, they're the same vs protoss, 2gate often lets you win right away vs random zerg. (because random zerg will expect 1gate and power more than they would against picked protoss thus they are far more vulnerable to a rush.)
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1gate vs. Zerg doesn't leave you dead. Just 20 core, and go from there. Versus a Zerg of your caliber, then yeah, you'd know to just go like 3hatch speedling. :/
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On August 18 2005 10:46 VdP]EpiphaNy wrote:
depends on the map and main distances and entrance style (wide/narrow ramp makes a huge difference for say pvp 1gate vs 2gate!). on say, luna, i'd send probe to scout after pylon to the cross pos (furthest away) first, and go 2gate unless i find a toss/terran there.
On luna, 2 gate can work though because of the terran's lack of a wall.. just gas after 3rd zeal and keep pressuring with zeal while you get core, range, and mass goons :D
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Norway28929 Posts
I can't recall losing zvp temple against a protoss who did 1 gate gas unless I _SERIOUSLY_ fucked up. (and I pretty much never counter with mass ling because that's prone to fuckups. just power like mad while you go either lurker and armor upgrade against a templar or sair templar opening or muta vs reaver. sacrifice one overlord to find out, and if you don't find anything you send lings everywhere to scout for hidden buildings and otherwise you can assume there is no sair coming. it leaves you with a huge advantage. )
I can however recall losing random zvp against a couple of only-barely-decent players because I went fast exp expecting fast gas and losing vs 2gate.
and on luna 2 gate is good vs terran. it's not as good against zerg though.
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On August 18 2005 07:24 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2005 16:55 GroT wrote:
theres nothing wrong with opening 2gate IMO.. its one of those spots where you gotta decide what kind of player you wonna be That's because you are a no wall terran (I am too) ;o In most cases those 2 gates will be useless PvT, way more useless than the 1 gate will be in PvZ or PvP!
hm i think this is a decent reason for random players to wall when they spawn t vs p
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if the map is suitable for two gate, normal 10 12 opening, when you have scouted two spots and are uncertain of his race, cancel your second gate and continue normal 1 gate style. cancel second gate if you find a terran on spot 1/2. play two gate if you find a protoss/zerg. on luna I don't think you can find two mains in time for this 'strat' though, but there's plenty of other maps where you can.
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What if the third spot happen to be protoss or zerg?
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then you play a 1 gate gas game against either of those
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Just open 17 core. :D I'm stubborn.
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On August 19 2005 15:22 TreY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2005 10:46 VdP]EpiphaNy wrote:
depends on the map and main distances and entrance style (wide/narrow ramp makes a huge difference for say pvp 1gate vs 2gate!). on say, luna, i'd send probe to scout after pylon to the cross pos (furthest away) first, and go 2gate unless i find a toss/terran there. On luna, 2 gate can work though because of the terran's lack of a wall.. just gas after 3rd zeal and keep pressuring with zeal while you get core, range, and mass goons :D
if you read my post more carefully you'll discover 2gate vs terran is infact exactly what i indirectly advocate UNLESS HE'S AT CROSS POS IN WHICH CASE ITS TOO FAR TO PRESSURE AND WHAT U SAID WILL SUCK. most of the time if u do what i said u go 2gate anyway, u only don't in the times it's not good.
also, 2gate is good enough pvt even if he does wall (if its not cross pos!)
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you will die vs any decent terran 100% if he walls
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Netherlands13554 Posts
You can still go 2 gate, then only make 1 zealot when you scout him and make core/gas right away. 2 goons when core finishes, and proceed like normal.
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Perhaps you can play 2/3 of your matchups with 2gate, you can play 3/3 with 1gate.
Just go like 16gas on 1gate (2z first).
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EPT
