In PvT at high level, unless protoss wins it early, there tends to be a large build up at the terran natural of tanks and vultures while terran harrasses. Then, when he's ready, terran just unseiges and goes out.

Are there any practical ways in mid-game (so not carriers/arbs) to allow toss to choose when to fight? cos basically terran gets to choose every time, as their defence is so strong.

It just sucks to see terran controlling the game unchallanged, when toss basically has to suck it up and wait until terran is ready, even with a significant unit advantage.

azndng

United States344 Posts

April 14 2005 23:42 GMT

hold ramp early and reaver/dt harrass then expo =) should be 10 minute game

Resonate

United Kingdom8402 Posts

April 14 2005 23:48 GMT

On April 15 2005 08:42 azndng wrote:
hold ramp early and reaver/dt harrass then expo =) should be 10 minute game

I'm talking about mid-game. Say you did that and he defended it then expanded with good turret cover... Now what?

NeverTheEndlessWiz

Singapore827 Posts

April 15 2005 00:03 GMT

Open with reaver
Attempt to storm drop followup
Force terran to stay at home
Expand at islands

MPXMX

Canada4309 Posts

April 15 2005 00:31 GMT

You shouldn't attack head on
I think you may like to play with a lot of speed shuttles. You can not only perform fairly large drops on the terran main, but you can also perform a lot of tasks quickly (one shuttle storm drops, one is ready to drop zeals on tanks ahead of the push, one takes probe to island)

While you're doing all this, get arbiter with recall/stasis or carriers. There's your initiative.
I don't think there's much of a way to get to choose the time of the all-out ground fight until you have carrier, if the terran doesn't want to.

k3fka

Argentina1267 Posts

April 15 2005 00:38 GMT

p vs t is basically slowing down terran , so u can get higher tech units , unless ur opponent is under ur level u will need high tech.

ronhaak

Canada98 Posts

April 15 2005 00:49 GMT

I mostly let them turtle, after i have my first 4-5goons and 1obs, I wait about 30seconds for possible vulture rush, stop it, and then expand. If they are expanding, then I take another expansion (usually with gas) and immediatly get my tech going. Exploit the fact that they are gonna sit there, so that when it comes time for them to push, you are very much ahead of them. If you really wanna stop pushes, mix in templar. Not only with units, but have 2 temps in a shuttle with 2 dt's or zeals. once he pushes on you and you attack him (from more than 1 angle) your speed shuttles can drop templar into the middle of the battle, and get off 3-4 quick storms to destroy any attempts at cluster seiging. PJ does this very well, so get a bunch of his replays and watch

Ghin

United States2391 Posts

April 15 2005 00:50 GMT

So basically no, there is no way. You have to wait for the Terran to come out.

ronhaak

Canada98 Posts

April 15 2005 01:03 GMT

I dont really see that as a downside, if they want to turtle, and not move out...then take your nat, another main, and the islands....and they'll be the ones paying for it.

FroZZoR

China925 Posts

April 15 2005 01:12 GMT

#10

take more bases
then they'll have to come out

hasuwar

7365 Posts

April 15 2005 01:32 GMT

#11

you pretty much answered your own question..you can't attack him when he's sieged into his base, so you can only try to attack when he has decided to move out

You got the significant unit advantage, and that's why you tech to arbiters or carriers, or storm or whatever..because he can't challenge your army for another 5 minutes

Effective storm drops might be able to slow him down until you've got 20 gates and can afford to just throw constant units at him until you finally get his min only, and he concedes

maybe 6 speed shuttles or something, but if he's mass defensing it, probably won't work either

EvilTeletubby

Baltimore, USA22261 Posts

April 15 2005 02:17 GMT

#12

Pretty muchly what everyone else said... having him turtle while you wait outside is not a bad thing, it's pretty much exactly what you want him to do. If you are looking to end the game sooner though, as suggested, the only thing I can think of that'll end it in mid-game in a timely manner would be massive shuttle drops in his main, or on his defensive units. I know as T I've been caught off guard a few times, expecting the usual; Toss will stay outside my base while I can work my econ a bit and skimp on the units.

rT)Arch

Uruguay22 Posts

April 15 2005 02:28 GMT

#13

On April 15 2005 10:12 FroZZoR wrote:
take more bases
then they'll have to come out

agreed, if u have sufficient unit advantage take more bases, this should force him to move out or face a slow death once u get them up and running

pfff

Belgium1352 Posts

April 15 2005 02:42 GMT

#14

force the terran to come out by outexpanding him.

SainT

Chile1067 Posts

April 15 2005 03:04 GMT

#15

but what if T gets high upgrades and I don't, should I attack him... or just make units until i get more upg?

BigBalls

United States5354 Posts

April 15 2005 03:18 GMT

#16

Unless youre playing a very good terran, expanding one too many times will most likely win you the game. It will either force him out of his base or allow you to expand all over and do whatever you want

eternalbliss

United States1035 Posts

April 15 2005 10:53 GMT

#17

Im the worst Terran ever, and I can rareley win TvP...... sad lol

starofNC

United States1340 Posts

April 15 2005 12:50 GMT

#18

lol BigBalls more like expanding one too many times will lose you the game

I think dk's are getting more and more essential in pvt as a way of making the terran conservative with his scanning as u try and get that 4th expansion min/gas up

if you hadn't been very successful with an extra early expand, or in your side-strat to hurt the eco of the teran, then your 3rd base invariably gets raped by vultures as your zeal shuttle(s) die to the turrets around middle tanks T-T terrans can really abuse this especially with positions favoring them on lotem

my main problem with pvt seems to always come around that ~13 minute mark when its like 6gates vs 5 or 6factory

or.. it also seems like on nostal more n more opponents ive played like to spend less on workers and u die before your 3rd base even finished warping T_T

yea iono its pretty bad when I see a starport I actually let out a sigh of relief, so much easier to deal with than getting a 3rd gas/min up and running after he 1fac cc's

I am the shitty at pvt