EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 342
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
Does anyone know what the point of this 8pool opener? Maybe it was in order to have lings to take down the natural-blocking ebay? Or maybe it's something specific to Tau Cross? | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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AcMilan91
105 Posts
I mean the most common one | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
So far I've mostly been going 1gate with zealot zealot goon. This does give some options down the line, but it just feels a little volatile. So yeah, how should I open in PvR?  10/12? | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
well what are the problems you are running into? I guess the most difficult, is if your opponent is Z and you don't know how to play 1 base against Z. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
On September 02 2017 13:33 jrkirby wrote: Are valkyrie any good against carriers? No, they have base 4 armor vs 6 base attack of the valks plus after you get like 6 of them they don't shoot anymore. | ||
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shall_burn
252 Posts
On September 02 2017 09:26 Alpha-NP- wrote: Do Hallucinations dissapear if hit by EMP Shockwave, Psi Storms, Ensnare, or Plagues? Any Pro games of a player dispelling hallucination with another spell? I wonder like PvT if a Protoss tried to use Hallucinated Zealots to clear Minefields only to get them EMP Shockwaved. I never saw it in 10 years of playing the game. They disappear under every spell, be it EMP, broodling, maelstorm, lockdown, etc. There was an interesting game between Iris and Bisu @Byzantium, you may look it up on Iris'es liquidpedia page, notable games.Bisu there used hallucinaded zealots to clear the mines. Also that game between Rock and another P-player, who hid on an island with dragoons and dark archons and forced a tie. Rock tried to fly in with hallooed arbiters, which got puffed by storms, stasises and mind controls | ||
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CHEONSOYUN
629 Posts
On September 02 2017 20:36 Cryoc wrote: No, they have base 4 armor vs 6 base attack of the valks plus after you get like 6 of them they don't shoot anymore. maybe he's wondering if they kill interceptors at an efficient rate | ||
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Jealous
10403 Posts
On September 02 2017 09:26 Alpha-NP- wrote: Do Hallucinations dissapear if hit by EMP Shockwave, Psi Storms, Ensnare, or Plagues? Any Pro games of a player dispelling hallucination with another spell? I wonder like PvT if a Protoss tried to use Hallucinated Zealots to clear Minefields only to get them EMP Shockwaved. I never saw it in 10 years of playing the game. EMPing those Zealots would be absolutely moronic, so the answer is no. For a game with popping Hallucinations, to elaborate on the recommendation made above, it's Rock vs. Chalrenge. On September 02 2017 15:05 AcMilan91 wrote: Some universal build ZvP ? I mean the most common one 5 Hatch Hydra. On September 02 2017 18:50 XsebT wrote: So, playing the ladder, I'm being forced into a lot of Protoss vs Random games, and I really am not sure how to do a solid opening. So far I've mostly been going 1gate with zealot zealot goon. This does give some options down the line, but it just feels a little volatile. So yeah, how should I open in PvR? 10/12? 2Zealot 1Dragoon into tech is a solid, safe opener in PvR IMO. I cancel the second Zealot if I scout T/no 2 Gate Protoss/12 Hatch. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
EMPing those Zealots would be absolutely moronic, so the answer is no. For a game with popping Hallucinations, to elaborate on the recommendation made above, it's Rock vs. Chalrenge. Yo Jealous I don't follow you, can you elaborate on why it's moronic? Isn't EMP shockwaves a normal spell TvP? I admit I may be wrong I'm a 2v2 player. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
On September 02 2017 22:33 CHEONSOYUN wrote: maybe he's wondering if they kill interceptors at an efficient rate They don't, maybe if more than 6 could shoot, it might be an option. | ||
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shall_burn
252 Posts
On September 03 2017 03:58 Cryoc wrote: They don't, maybe if more than 6 could shoot, it might be an option. Is this still an issue in Remastered? | ||
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Jealous
10403 Posts
On September 03 2017 02:26 Alpha-NP- wrote: Yo Jealous I don't follow you, can you elaborate on why it's moronic? Isn't EMP shockwaves a normal spell TvP? I admit I may be wrong I'm a 2v2 player. EMP is much more important to use on Arbiter/High Templar/clumped AFK army than it is to cast on moving Zealots which will trigger, drag, or at least reveal the mines anyway if they are genuine Zealots, and if they are Hallucinations then you still spent a valuable spell to keep your free units alive, and that is only assuming you hit all of them which is unlikely. It's simply a poor option in a very unlikely scenario. Templar energy is better spent on Storm and supply is better spent on actual army than the amount of Templar necessary to make any sizeable amount of Hallucinations; EMP are better spent on the aforementioned targets and the gas/supply of the Vessels you would need to match the opponents' proportionate Templar army is better spent on army of your own. This is D- theorycraft, like those threads not too long ago that explored "underused" units and combinations. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
On September 03 2017 04:17 shall_burn wrote: Is this still an issue in Remastered? Obviously yes. There is the famous nailbiting game between Bisu and Iris, where Bisu uses hallucinated zealots, but as Jealous explained, EMP would be wasted on them. | ||
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
On September 03 2017 04:34 Jealous wrote: EMP is much more important to use on Arbiter/High Templar/clumped AFK army than it is to cast on moving Zealots which will trigger, drag, or at least reveal the mines anyway if they are genuine Zealots, and if they are Hallucinations then you still spent a valuable spell to keep your free units alive, and that is only assuming you hit all of them which is unlikely. It's simply a poor option in a very unlikely scenario. Templar energy is better spent on Storm and supply is better spent on actual army than the amount of Templar necessary to make any sizeable amount of Hallucinations; EMP are better spent on the aforementioned targets and the gas/supply of the Vessels you would need to match the opponents' proportionate Templar army is better spent on army of your own. This is D- theorycraft, like those threads not too long ago that explored "underused" units and combinations. D- theorycraft come on man. I hit B 3 times on Iccup. And I like underrated strategies. I don't just use groupthink and play the most common strats. People would probably crap their pants if you used Hallucination PvT. Or at least makes their palms sweaty. I almost wish I had gamer grip gel for close games. I do recoginze you made a good point of EMP Shockwave. But probably right at the moment they mass Hallucinate it would be viable. When there are 100 Hallucinations all freshly clumped up. | ||
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Jealous
10403 Posts
On September 03 2017 09:13 Alpha-NP- wrote: D- theorycraft come on man. I hit B 3 times on Iccup. And I like underrated strategies. I don't just use groupthink and play the most common strats. People would probably crap their pants if you used Hallucination PvT. Or at least makes their palms sweaty. I almost wish I had gamer grip gel for close games. I do recoginze you made a good point of EMP Shockwave. But probably right at the moment they mass Hallucinate it would be viable. When there are 100 Hallucinations all freshly clumped up. You getting to B in 2v2 on ICCup doesn't somehow make your idea any better than D- theorycraft. Nearly every person I've heard who says "I don't follow the herd, I play my own way!" is limited by their ego when it comes to improving in this game and is often just bad. You should get a grip on reality instead of your mouse. At that moment, I would much rather EMP the main army than a bunch of Hallucinations that can do no damage outside of mine dragging and forcing some wasted shots. At that moment, if he has any sizeable amount of Hallucinations, it means his actual bulk army is rather small because he is so Templar-heavy, and they all are out of energy. If he morphs Archons, I'd rather EMP those and run in and snipe the shit out of them. There is no "groupthink" or "underrated strategy," it's simply bad play, for both parts. If you want to use Hallucination so bad, use it on your Arbiters. You won't need bulk Templar to make that useful. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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Jealous
10403 Posts
On September 03 2017 11:07 Alpha-NP- wrote: I admit I just have a hunch that Hallucinations are useful against mine fields but I'm not good enough to explain in detail when. There was a pimpest play (2005 I think?) where this was done, on LT P from 6 to T position at 12 IIRC, it's probably where you're getting the idea from. For this to be a useful thing to do, I think it has to be in the super late game where there are few resources left and a large High Templar population is likely, as is the use of spells. The super late game when the resources run low and everyone is trying to conserve money and energy for spells becomes like another resource, the game gets really wonky and that's where you start to heavily deviate from "standard" play. It's like, yea in this one situation something like this miiight have some value, but that is very weak when you're trying to push it as a blanket concept, as in without the foundation of the situation laid out. I'm still unsure that EMP on the running Hallucination Zealots would be worth it even then, for the reasons I listed. | ||
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